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Youtube creators creating unnecessary drama


Brosef42

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Five months ago in April. Quiet Shy did an interview with DE scott and some other well know Warframe content creators. In the interview at 1:15:05, Brozime said, "The way my channel is, ah, I do usually in the videos play up a little bit. Just because, that is a little bit of the thing people want to see. That is, whenever I'm unhappy with a thing. That it's, like it's a big deal." This dude says he cares about the game and the community. While knowingly overreacting to problems to generate views. Then he wonders why DE doesn't listen. Which DE Scott confirmed himself in that same interview minutes before.

I will say I have enjoyed some of his content. I just worry that he might be creating a bigger divide between the community and the developers. Do you guys think this is a problem and if so. What could be done to help? Please try to avoid personal attacks. I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire. I just think people should be aware that he's knowingly creating drama. Which is an issue because how popular he is. 

People keep making this point. So let me add this
Just because I'm criticizing Brozime. Does not mean everyone else is guilty free. If you have information about other youtubers that show bad behavior. Feel free to post it. 

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speaking on Brozime, he does not create Drama, i know there are specifically Drama tubers, and warframe has its share, but its usually pretty obvious when you come across them.

Broz just gets irritated because he knows warframe mechanics better then most of the devs and how those mechanics play out in an in game setting. alot of his streams or videos are tests. so when he sees nerfs or changes that are not only bad, but the reasoning for them is also pretty bad, he gets irritated. 

 

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Most of them do that. Even DE themselves do that at times, to probe the community without blatantly coming out and saying something controversial. In the end it's all about balance between fighting for the community, and fighting for oneself. Sometimes there's room to be good, sometimes there's a need to profit a bit. There's always a bit of secondary intentions for every good action, be it us, DE, content creators, or anyone else. Even if it's not the case 100% of the time. It doesn't really justify this behavior, but the world isn't black and white either.

Regarding drama, while content creators sometimes stir the flames because they know they'll be heard, I find Brozime to hardly be the worst case of this. Certain other content creators come to mind, even if I still haven't seen them under the new program.

Then there's yet another issue. Regardless of intention these content creators do have their channels and fanbases. At which point is it justifiable to brand them "an issue" and try to silence them? Because they state their opinions, no matter how much sense they might make? They have the power they have because "we", their communities, gave it to them. DE also gave them power, but even if DE didn't it's not like some content creators would rise and have an influence on the game even if a partner/creator program never existed - and they'd still be free to blabber about the game all they wanted. Most games have content creators, and not all games have partner programs like WF does. And they are still able to turn a portion of the crowds in these games with their reputation.

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3 minutes ago, MacKerris said:

I honestly believe that the players themselves are more than capable of blowing things completely out of proportion without the help of any streamers. Of course there are times where the players should raise a stink about things that DE does.

I don't disagree. I just think we might get the boy that cried wolf to many times. The actual valid criticism gets downed out by the overreacting. 

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I think DE made a mistake giving so many of the streamers so much of an extra platform to begin with. 

Brozime is just one of many, he is easy to call out, but the point is many of them thrive on negativity to drive views. There really is no defense for people like Brozime, they know what they are doing. They know they are ginning things up to get attention and make a career out of negative reviews. They know what sells, and positivity usually doesn't sell as well unless it is shrouded with a certain amount of negative expectations. Youtube in general is a place where a lot of irrelevant nobodies like to tell themselves they are super important. The fact is Brozime isn't important largely because he has made himself such a negative force that the devs don't take him seriously anymore. Him and his followers can try to puff him up and defend him all they want, but the fact is that he has made himself come across as so purposefully and dramatically negative for views that the devs aren't taking him seriously anymore and it's his own damn fault. Youtubers are a pox on the community overall. The fact he made such a huge deal about the Xoris when he was so obviously wrong about letting it exist as it was is clear he doesn't need to be listened to ever again and can be safely disregarded by everyone including the devs. That was the moment it was clear to most who weren't aware of him who he was and that he wasn't to be taken seriously. He went crazy on that for views and tons of people just commented on the forums repeating him without understanding. And truth was, DE fixed that problem super fast, and he was objectively wrong as hell about the whole thing, but some are still infected by his toxic viewpoints because they watch his videos like sheep and don't understand the game even half as well as Brozime does. 

Some of them being an exception, such as Shy, who just thrives on being quirky and providing good content. 

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People like drama and youtube has designed itself around drawing the most attention to one's videos which is why clickbait is such a prevalent issue. Why bother making a level-headed video outlining some gripes over something when you can blow it completely out of proportion to draw more attention to it. Especially when bad press is good press so long as you're getting views.

But even if youtube wasn't the way it is there isn't any solution to stop people from parroting sensationalized opinions. So long as people have any platform or following to spout such opinions from there will be people that blindly follow them.

As far as a solution to the divide between DE/players I think DE is already taking an appropriate route and relying on player data more than opinions. It's not perfect but when people rant about something which data proves otherwise then those ideas can be discarded without concern.

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4 minutes ago, trst said:

People like drama and youtube has designed itself around drawing the most attention to one's videos which is why clickbait is such a prevalent issue. Why bother making a level-headed video outlining some gripes over something when you can blow it completely out of proportion to draw more attention to it. Especially when bad press is good press so long as you're getting views.

But even if youtube wasn't the way it is there isn't any solution to stop people from parroting sensationalized opinions. So long as people have any platform or following to spout such opinions from there will be people that blindly follow them.

As far as a solution to the divide between DE/players I think DE is already taking an appropriate route and relying on player data more than opinions. It's not perfect but when people rant about something which data proves otherwise then those ideas can be discarded without concern.

Agreed. I have seen them be increasingly data driven lately and I think that is a very good thing. 

As a player, I could think the playerbase supports my opinion and be dead wrong, it might just be a vocal minority. However, while you can sometimes argue with an interpretation of data, you can't argue with data itself. Raw stats and other numbers don't care if you agree with them. They are. 

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This is an issue that SHOULD be addressed and its quite surprising that its not brought up enough. Everyone's always calling out de for their wrong doing (which is a good thing) but the critique against these creators and the toxic environment theyve spawned is so null and void that its ridiculous.  

Im glad de is going based of data because you cant rely on some one like brozime who has a completely different perspective of fun compared to other yotubers and expect for the rest of the community to react the same way.

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the game and the group behind it are politically correct, and that fosters and incentivizes fake people. plus the Platforms that Content Creators reside on foster and incentivize it even further.
it is what it is.

 

though at the same time once in a while the Content Creators actually bring up ethics issues and apply atleast some pressure, and that's what i want to see out of everyone on the Planet - holding ethics as something important irregardless of whether the right thing to do is or is not in your own favor. the world shouldn't be about trying to get what's most convenient for you, but what the right thing to do is and what's best. so what makes a game the best game it can be, since we're talking about a game.

47 minutes ago, (XB1)ONI Prowess said:

Broz just gets irritated because he knows warframe mechanics better then most of the devs

and yet, still has quite a ways to go.

12 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Agreed. I have seen them be increasingly data driven lately and I think that is a very good thing. 

if the data was read correctly, but data metrics have been driving decisions since 2013 and usually the data metrics are being abused. having a pile of numbers and seeing that as a shut case of anything that you read out of the data is automatically right, even if you're reading something out of the data that the data wasn't able to inform on.
reading data metrics incorrectly is a major cause of problems in our modern world.

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4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

if the data was read correctly, but data metrics have been driving decisions since 2013 and usually the data metrics are being abused. having a pile of numbers and seeing that as a shut case of anything that you read out of the data is automatically right, even if you're reading something out of the data that the data wasn't able to inform on.
reading data metrics incorrectly is a major cause of problems in our modern world.

I understand that statistics aren't always interpreted properly, that is true. As one professor I had in college once said "statistics are like a bikini: what they show is suggestive, what they conceal is vital". 

That said, as imperfect as they are at reading their own stats over the years, and all the ways they have misinterpreted or used them wrongly, it's still a better approach imo to focus mostly on stats, then listen to the latest player outrage from popular youtubers. But yes, if they could get a little better at understanding player concerns and attitudes and then apply them to their stats or use that understanding when interpreting stats, then I think they would get closer to an ideal approach. 

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I don't agree with this sentiment that DE only looks at the DATA. DE Scott, Rebecca, and Pablo all were interviewed by youtubers this year. All over an hour to two hours long. They do listen to the players. It's just not the only thing they listen too. 

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The Warframe content creators can be classified into 3 categories in my point of view:

- Drama
- Efficiency
- Actually chill and good info.

On the drama category, the undisputed king is Life of Rio. He generates views out of clickbait video titles that says "DE this, DE that, Warframe this, Warframe that" and then proceed to be the drama queen he is.
On efficiency, which can also be like, elitist? You have Brozime in there. I have nothing against him or his channel, but the way he presents his content, to me it looks like this: "This is the best of the best and there is no reason you should bother with something else, or you will simply not be playing the right way" He gave me that impression with his video of Protea + nidus larva, and his spreadsheet of the helminth abilities.
On the actually chill and people that provide good info, there are many others i can think of, people that really does not give 2 craps about what is the best of the best, but have a good idea of what works and what does not, and actually have fun and provide good information.

Sadly, many content creators as of right now are conveying the wrong information by over reacting to a barely 20 seconds segment of HomeTime#25 where it was said that Plague Star would not be coming back this year.

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3 minutes ago, Yakhul said:

Sadly, many content creators as of right now are conveying the wrong information by over reacting to a barely 20 seconds segment of HomeTime#25 where it was said that Plague Star would not be coming back this year.

Can you put some links for me? Atleast TP and Brozime didn't say anything about Plague Star, with TP being the only one that I rarely follow, I didn't saw any videos about the PS Drama

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“Damn, it’s kind of as though content creators have a financial incentive to make warframe content that generates more engagement” I guess is a blanket statement I could make but I really don’t think money is the only reason, I also think it’s kind of the obvious thing to do to get DE’s attention. 
 

Which I could say is a problem because I generally don’t think making super clickbait and overdramatic videos about how DE sucks and how their game is trash is a very consistently productive method of change at all, especially when it’s not even constructive or nuanced. I don’t think it’s good for the overall health of the community anyway.
 

Those videos attract DE’s attention for sure though, usually not any positive reception from them in return, and the players after. I would really blame that DE for taking the criticism personally, which I find understandable but a not useful way to take criticism, and I blame the warframe community sometimes for their ridiculous gamer rage and overreactions too, just not good overall. 

 

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Didn't expect to see Brozimes name for drama. Thought his complaints has always been on point and not whiteknighting DE in all occasions. Though usually he exaggerates the repercussions of some things that DE does but its general concerns and usually owns up to stuff he called wrong.

You get a lot more drama queens from other channels and even a heavier dose in the forums. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DissentWomble said:

Didn't expect to see Brozimes name for drama.

Brozime is not part of the drama, i do not think i made it look that way on my post. What i am saying is that his content, to people like me, can come as "dont use anything else other than what i tell you to use, because anything else is gonna be bad" kind of content. He has been vocal about many issues about the game, but he is no drama queen at all.

I think the vast majority of the drama is coming from some well known creators like Life of Rio conveying the wrong information, and others speculating without any real arguments, some post i saw in the forums too.

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1 minute ago, Yakhul said:

Brozime is not part of the drama, i do not think i made it look that way on my post. What i am saying is that his content, to people like me, can come as "dont use anything else other than what i tell you to use, because anything else is gonna be bad" kind of content. He has been vocal about many issues about the game, but he is no drama queen at all.

I think the vast majority of the drama is coming from some well known creators like Life of Rio conveying the wrong information, and others speculating without any real arguments, some post i saw in the forums too.

Who you? Only read OP so not sure if i got mixed with someone else.

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9 minutes ago, DissentWomble said:

Didn't expect to see Brozimes name for drama. Thought his complaints has always been on point and not whiteknighting DE in all occasions. Though usually he exaggerates the repercussions of some things that DE does but its general concerns and usually owns up to stuff he called wrong.

You get a lot more drama queens from other channels and even a heavier dose in the forums. 

 

 

I mean, Brozime gets brought up here for drama because of things like this, like, for example,

as the OP quoted literally right here, an actual quote from an interview with him, this is cut and dried mate:

"In the interview at 1:15:05, Brozime said, "The way my channel is, ah, I do usually in the videos play up a little bit. Just because, that is a little bit of the thing people want to see. That is, whenever I'm unhappy with a thing. That it's, like it's a big deal.""

I mean, he is essentially admitting to making a bigger deal out of things than necessary to get more views... How else should the community take that but that he is a net negative for us as a whole? How does him amping up drama on something he is unhappy with because people want to see him annoyed in any way good for the game? 

His complaints have not been on point many times, in fact many times they are dead wrong and he still won't admit it he was dead wrong. For example, he argued incredibly hard against the Xoris having the infinite combo counter thing dealt with for stat sticks. And he was 100% objectively wrong about that issue, and hyped a bunch of players who don't even understand game mechanics into a frenzy over it and they still haven't calmed down or understood why he was so wrong about the whole thing. 

You yourself admit he exaggerates.

But yes their are worse offenders like LifeOfRio who is just negative as hell for literally no reason, but he is taken imo a lot less seriously by most serious players so I don't really consider him even worth mentioning. Brozime gets mentioned because I think he has at least an iota of good faith in his attempts at commentary, unlike people like LifeOfRio.

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