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good BS, we will see how they change this, they just have to make 1 simple change, every enemy that is tangled, receives the damage, even through the walls, cause they are entangled. But the whip itself dont need to hit through walls.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)GOTWIC said:

LMFAO. I don't think you have EVER used khora on the Steel path. Khora's whiplcaw was NOT broken. She NEEDED that damage to survive because she has NO defensive abilities NO extra health NO extra shields NO extra armor.

 

We are talking about STEEL PATH HERE, where an enemy can ONESHOT a 10k INAROS. 
 

And for khora to be "broken" it would require ALOT of forma ALOT of high level mods and a VERY SPECIFIC stat stick. You probably have no idea how difficult it is to get all of that, ESPECIALLY the stat stick.

Make sure you UNDERSTAND a warframe before spewing your public opinion on one.

I'm sorry but you're wrong, Khora is really easy to survive with in Steel Path, hell shield gating has made Steel Path easy for most frames, I cleared almost all the nodes with a Nova. On top of that you have Venari bodyguard which is increased in effectiveness by the whip or just killing via another method. Rolling guard is also very effective. 

You make it sound like putting forma on a frame is hard lol, takes about 4 minutes in Adaro per forma, big challenge... As for the stat stick? Yeh it's nice n all but I still managed to kill Steel Path enemies of level 2000+ no problem at all before I even bothered adding the stat stick cos slash procs are a thing. 

P.S. Inaros is a horrible frame with less survivability than a lot of other frames so using that as an example of enemies doing damage in Steel Path doesn't really say much.

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1 hour ago, Kyaros said:

Also, sorry about my ignorance, I just came back from a 8 month hiatus. But is that the sole reason she got nerfed? That "Stat Stick" or something that was being spammed in recruit chat?

 

 

People on PC were abusing Steel essence farming by using AFK macros with khora. Instead of banning those cheaters like they are required (by law, as it is in the terms of service iirc), they are nerfing the SE farm. 

Believe it or not, but the general agreement was that the SE farm had to be nerfed, either by increasing the price per 10k kuva or something else. They way the nerfed it... it's eh, whatever.

But what is stupid is that they nerfed khora too, which not only wasn't in the test cluster (khora change wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, and was the only frame that wasn't changed in the test cluster), just because of the few people who were using macros.

If DE banned cheaters in the first place none of this would have been a problem.

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8 minutes ago, (PSN)GOTWIC said:

People on PC were abusing Steel essence farming by using AFK macros with khora. Instead of banning those cheaters like they are required (by law, as it is in the terms of service iirc), they are nerfing the SE farm. 

Believe it or not, but the general agreement was that the SE farm had to be nerfed, either by increasing the price per 10k kuva or something else. They way the nerfed it... it's eh, whatever.

But what is stupid is that they nerfed khora too, which not only wasn't in the test cluster (khora change wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, and was the only frame that wasn't changed in the test cluster), just because of the few people who were using macros.

If DE banned cheaters in the first place none of this would have been a problem.

Except you can't prove who's cheating, makes it rather difficult.

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1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I'm sorry but you're wrong, Khora is really easy to survive with in Steel Path, hell shield gating has made Steel Path easy for most frames, I cleared almost all the nodes with a Nova. On top of that you have Venari bodyguard which is increased in effectiveness by the whip or just killing via another method. Rolling guard is also very effective. 

You make it sound like putting forma on a frame is hard lol, takes about 4 minutes in Adaro per forma, big challenge... As for the stat stick? Yeh it's nice n all but I still managed to kill Steel Path enemies of level 2000+ no problem at all before I even bothered adding the stat stick cos slash procs are a thing. 

P.S. Inaros is a horrible frame with less survivability than a lot of other frames so using that as an example of enemies doing damage in Steel Path doesn't really say much.

Inaros IS a terrible frame, (note I said mentioned inaros, not a frame like rhino) but the fact that an enemy can do 10k damage in one shot means that khora can be one shot as well.

As for rolling guard and the whole shield gating thing, its not gonna be much effective if enemies are flooding in and you can only kill the enemies that you see, and not the enemies you can't see. Because the moment you use whip claw and turn around to use it somewhere else, unless you KNOW that there were enemies behind walls/door you couldn't kill on the first cast, you WILL be killed. The entire purpose of rolling guard + shield gating is to save you from enemies that haven't been eliminated yet that AREN"T infront of you/in line of sight. By having to WAIT for enemies to actually enter rooms, you can be surrounded by many enemies, but only be able to kill 1/3 of them while you get shot down. Not mention that makes khora not viable for SP unless you HAVE all that stuff and KNOW how to use it, which MANY people don't.

As for your experience, sp is easy enough with the right frames. Being knowledgeable about a frame requires UNDERSTANDING, not just mindless grinding.

And unfortunately, you (and many more) don't understand this. It's basic pattern recognition. You are relying on shield gating now, but don't be surprised if that gets nerfed in the future because pEoPle wErE AbUsInG ShiELd gAtInG oN kHoRa tO fArM FeRrItE.

Peace :)

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6 minutes ago, PurrrningBoop said:

10k hp Inaros,....oneshot? In SP?

i don't believe you remake GIF

lv 400-500+ consistently one shot inaros, even if you subsume chroma's thing on him
only the infested can't if you have a good build, the other 3 factions can
he is the worse frame ig after they added shield gating

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1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Except you can't prove who's cheating, makes it rather difficult.

Except in a lot of instances you can, Software to detect delays between button pressed. If you have someone pressing 1 every 1 second and 4 every 30 seconds to the exact second every time for 2 hours. Its a macro. 

Throw in random events (Lockdown, terminal requiring hacking, only high end macros will have pattern detection for that kind of S#&$) and once a bunch of people get banned, the number of people willing to do macros will plummet. 

 

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Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Hmm I guess that could work. Though that would generally be from higher pitches I think? 

I also feel like it'd do blast or maybe impact, not slash. Vibrations deal damage by (at best) by disrupting your organs and stuff. Sometimes to a point where they rupture, or your bones fracture.

 

Not really a lot of cutting.

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

I wasn't talking about Rivens interacting with Whipclaw.

I was talking about how this wasn't a debate about Steel Essence. This was a debate about Kuva. Outside of Kuva, this whole Steel Path change thing is a flat better system. It has more reasonable rates no matter what you're looking at. But it's no longer as good of a Kuva Farm, and apparently that alone is enough to justify slurs, insults and rage.

Yes, slurs. I have had slurs personally slung at me over this.

Khora was nerfed for SE farming. Most people (most) were on general agreement that SE farms needed a nerf. But khora nerf wasn't needed

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)GOTWIC said:

Inaros IS a terrible frame, (note I said mentioned inaros, not a frame like rhino) but the fact that an enemy can do 10k damage in one shot means that khora can be one shot as well.

As for rolling guard and the whole shield gating thing, its not gonna be much effective if enemies are flooding in and you can only kill the enemies that you see, and not the enemies you can't see. Because the moment you use whip claw and turn around to use it somewhere else, unless you KNOW that there were enemies behind walls/door you couldn't kill on the first cast, you WILL be killed. The entire purpose of rolling guard + shield gating is to save you from enemies that haven't been eliminated yet that AREN"T infront of you/in line of sight. By having to WAIT for enemies to actually enter rooms, you can be surrounded by many enemies, but only be able to kill 1/3 of them while you get shot down. Not mention that makes khora not viable for SP unless you HAVE all that stuff and KNOW how to use it, which MANY people don't.

As for your experience, sp is easy enough with the right frames. Being knowledgeable about a frame requires UNDERSTANDING, not just mindless grinding.

And unfortunately, you (and many more) don't understand this. It's basic pattern recognition. You are relying on shield gating now, but don't be surprised if that gets nerfed in the future because pEoPle wErE AbUsInG ShiELd gAtInG oN kHoRa tO fArM FeRrItE.

Peace :)

Well, I won't pretend I don't have experience and knowledge from having played the game far too much and that does indeed make things much easier for me. BUT I will say that one of my clan mates went on a quest to see how long max level enemies would take on SP survival(as you know the scaling is very slow) and for most of this he was afk, chatting on discord and watching youtube, meanwhile enemies of level 8000 or more were dying instantly. Doesn't seem to hard to survive to me. The whole forma and stat stick argument for me is just a non-event because as I said, fast methods of levelling exist(again player experience) and rivens for the weapons commonly used for this purpose are generally not expensive if you don't happen to already have one. And honestly you don't even need the stat stick when slash procs are so unbelievably broken right now.

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I loved to use khora. i invested lot of time to get her in a good place with good stat stic.

Now they nerf her while they never needed to nerf her before . it takes one broken steel essence farm and they nerf not only that but also khora. 

She plays not the same anymore, im very disappointed. she did not need a nerf at all. 

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8 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Except you can't prove who's cheating, makes it rather difficult.

Actually its very easy. Macros run on a loop. That means after a certain interval, the button presses and the time delay between them will repeat.

Unless you got some super special macro that randomizes delays within a reset interval of time (which you'd probably have to make yourself), that repetition can very easily be detected.

For example, if I press "square-triangle-square-square-circle-R2-L1-square-triangle-triangle" with 3 seconds between presses, eventually when the cycle repeats itself over and over again, it can be very easily detected. Ofcourse, macros are only for PC, they don't work on console afaik 

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5 minutes ago, The-Ex-Wife said:

Except in a lot of instances you can, Software to detect delays between button pressed. If you have someone pressing 1 every 1 second and 4 every 30 seconds to the exact second every time for 2 hours. Its a macro. 

Throw in random events (Lockdown, terminal requiring hacking, only high end macros will have pattern detection for that kind of S#&$) and once a bunch of people get banned, the number of people willing to do macros will plummet. 

 

I used to run Frost for defense mission with my clan, running missions about 3-4 hours long. My task? Pressing 2 every 4 seconds manually. Should I be banned? Clearly that's a macro right and not me giving myself RSI pressing 1 button...

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15 minutes ago, PurrrningBoop said:

10k hp Inaros,....oneshot? In SP?

i don't believe you remake GIF

Inaros isn't a good frame to use in SP for that reason. If you go for pure tanky, you'd want rhino

I used him as an example to show that if a 10k inaros get get oneshot, then so can khora.

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1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I used to run Frost for defense mission with my clan, running missions about 3-4 hours long. My task? Pressing 2 every 4 seconds manually. Should I be banned? Clearly that's a macro right and not me giving myself RSI pressing 1 button...

As long as you are playing the game, its not afk macros. Also, if you were using a macro, it would button press every 4.000000 seconds. In your case if you do it manually, it would be from 3.761324 second to 4.280091 seconds (for example). You'd never be perfect, so you would't be flagged for macro use.

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Either the "community" is overreacting like hell or the devs really screwed up if such a small change turned one of the best DPS frames into "useless" (not like we have gotten the changes yet, so can't really tell).

Still as I have seen on a video above, the LOS-check really needs some tweaking, or perhaps the nerf could have touched other things, like static / maximum range, energy cost, mods that apply to the damage calculation... It does look like they wanted maximum effect with minimum effort.

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3 hours ago, AltairFerenc said:

you must be new here... nerfs come and go(JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER FRICKING ONLINE GAME), reworks come and go, khora's whip was incredibly broken and still is, it needed to happen.

Not new to warframe and here, just never felt like saying anything until now. Of course there is nerfing in all games, but if they already removed SE farming, what is the need for nerfing khora?

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)GOTWIC said:

Actually its very easy. Macros run on a loop. That means after a certain interval, the button presses and the time delay between them will repeat.

Unless you got some super special macro that randomizes delays within a reset interval of time (which you'd probably have to make yourself), that repetition can very easily be detected.

For example, if I press "square-triangle-square-square-circle-R2-L1-square-triangle-triangle" with 3 seconds between presses, eventually when the cycle repeats itself over and over again, it can be very easily detected. Ofcourse, macros are only for PC, they don't work on console afaik 

Same question to you as the other. Running frost for 3-4 hours, pressing 2 every 4 seconds consistently. You know how I know if I didn't get it right? We lose the mission instantly. So should ai be banned for givng myself RSI pressing 2?

2 minutes ago, (PSN)GOTWIC said:

As long as you are playing the game, its not afk macros. Also, if you were using a macro, it would button press every 4.000000 seconds. In your case if you do it manually, it would be from 3.761324 second to 4.280091 seconds (for example). You'd never be perfect, so you would't be flagged for macro use.

Possibly I guess. I mean if I missed my timing to 4.2 we'd fail the mission but 3.7 is definitely possible.

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