Why is Warframe listed as a FTP game ?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I know of people who traded stuff to others for plat for the few things you actually need like slots

The argument is that, if anyone has to spend money for you to "complete the game", then it isn't really F2P, which I agree with. However, Nightwave could be a reliable source of free slots if DE kept up with it.

[Yamazuki]

Free to play just means you don't pay for an account to access the base game and features. It has nothing to do with fairness, ease of unlocking things, etc. As even games with paid content [with no way of earning it] can still be free to play if the base game is. Then there's the long list of gambling simulators where characters and equipment are locked behind loot boxes, but the base game is still free, so it's free to play.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

5 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Funny, trully funny.

Not only do you not need to pay anything to play, you don't even need to platinum from any source to acquire everything in the game (except mechanically useless cosmetics)

Unless you are counting the extra weapon slots from Nightwave, this is incorrect. You need at least 2 more weapon slots to A: complete all sorties and B: craft all weapons.

[(NSW)Gamma83]

il y a 8 minutes, -AoN-CanoLathra- a dit :

The argument is that, if anyone has to spend money for you to "complete the game", then it isn't really F2P, which I agree with. However, Nightwave could be a reliable source of free slots if DE kept up with it.

Even if that was a thing , i would still not buy them from the nightwave.
It's very long to get 75 nightwave credit.
Wheras you could easily get 20 plat in one or two relic and trade that one or two item you get in it. (or even hundred of plat at a time if you sell directly sets or way more if you sell arcanes etc...)

if you used the time you would spend farming those 75 nightwave credit by simply farming relics would , if you would use warframe market to trade , would allow you to get the slot wayyyy faster

Farm some relics from fast missions (capture in void for example) use them , sell the content (if you already have it) and you will at the same time be able to farm the prime warframe for yourself and also farm things you'll be able to sell.

[killerJoke66]

for whatever plat you get from 'free' from trading means someone paid real cash for it , its not free its a marketing strat. Though that doesnt mean you cant get everything ' free ' for you individually .

[o0Despair0o]

1 hour ago, Raj42 said:

we know

 

1 hour ago, Raj42 said:

Thoughts?  

Stop talking for everyone.

You only talk for yourself.

[GEN-Son_17]

57 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

It's free to play - you don't need to pay or even trade to play it.
Explanation - some people will say that platinium is used for slots , potatoes etc and there is no other way except to trade or buy it(and your argument is that someone pays at the end).
The thing is this is not something you NEED to play the game,The game in it's core is completely free - you can play with the slots given to you from the start and the couple from nightwave, quest, potatoes etc. without every buying or trading or anything ever.
People confuse the optional items for mandatory - they are not.
It's the same argument for - you don't need a car, 10 pairs of shoes, 50 different choices for meals a day, but you want it.

tl;dr people confuse the additional options in the game for mandatory options, they are not, they never were anywhere in the world.
 

I think this is the definitive explanation that should be locked in, especially for Warframe. Way, WAY to often, people attempt to apply a counter argument when none should exist. Personal talking points like "cataloging", "my OCD", "fast completion", etc should be thrown out at the base level because they are, in fact, personal. 

[KnossosTNC]

1 hour ago, vegetosayajin said:

What exactly stops you from playing here btw? I can't think of a single thing that says - "You have to pay to continue playing!" and the game shuts down.

I was speaking of free-to-play games in general, which is a very broad category. I don't think Warframe being classified as a "free-to-play game" means all that much.

Due to this diversity in business model, I therefore think it is much more important to look up the precise details of the business model of the games themselves, instead of seeing the words "free-to-play" and taking them at face value, or trying to specify its definition. That's a lost cause.

[vegetosayajin]

3 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

I was speaking of free-to-play games in general, which is a very broad category. I don't think Warframe being classified as a "free-to-play game" means all that much.

Due to this diversity in business model, I therefore think it is much more important to look up the precise details of the business model of the games themselves, instead seeing the words "free-to-play" and taking it at face value, or trying to specify its definition. That's a lost cause.

Exactly because of the diversity in this business model the numerous games that exploit the concept it needs specifying for this case(and some other games), because people project experience and second hand knowledge without even thinking for themselves(like this topic for example).
The simple fact is there is nothing in this game that stops you from getting it, playing it and doing all the content available in the game completely free at every point.The only thing you need to pay for is your internet access(the times of the "get a whole game and you don't need internet ever" are sadly over).
The additional, non-mandatory items in this game are purchasable, yes, but they are exactly that - additional.

[MqToasty]

Maybe going back to the definition of "Free to Play" will help?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

"Free to Play" absolutely does not mean developers cannot or will not take money from you.  That would be "Freeware".  "Free to Play" merely means the payment is optional and payment almost always means access to more content (almost always because payment in many F2P Gacha games merely give you a chance to access more content).  To be honest, in all the F2P games that I've played and business models I've examined, Warframe requires some of the least pay to win.  And ironically, that's exactly why I don't mind paying them...

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

The only thing that costs you anything to play this free game is your internet bill, electricity, and the machine you have to play it on. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

38 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I don't consider Warframe to be truly F2P, and I won't until Nightwave is constantly available and regularly reset so that new players always have a way to get warframe and weapon slots. Once that happens, then I will consider Warframe to be truly F2P.

Players can still get those just by getting platinum from trading

[KnossosTNC]

5 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

Exactly because of the diversity in this business model the numerous games that exploit the concept it needs specifying for this case(and some other games), because people project experience and second hand knowledge without even thinking for themselves(like this topic for example).

As I said, that's a lost cause. The term "free-to-play" has been bandied around to Hell and back by the industry. It doesn't mean much anymore.

[TheAvidoZ]

40 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

how much did you pay to be able to install it?

I paid some guy behind Walmart $16 to install it on my machine. Was I not supposed to do that? 

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

42 minutes ago, (NSW)Gamma83 said:

Even if that was a thing , i would still not buy them from the nightwave.
It's very long to get 75 nightwave credit.
Wheras you could easily get 20 plat in one or two relic and trade that one or two item you get in it. (or even hundred of plat at a time if you sell directly sets or way more if you sell arcanes etc...)

if you used the time you would spend farming those 75 nightwave credit by simply farming relics would , if you would use warframe market to trade , would allow you to get the slot wayyyy faster

Farm some relics from fast missions (capture in void for example) use them , sell the content (if you already have it) and you will at the same time be able to farm the prime warframe for yourself and also farm things you'll be able to sell.

Weapon/warframe slots aren't bought from the Nightwave shop; they are given as rank rewards in the Nightwave.

[Tesseract7777]

54 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

The argument is that, if anyone has to spend money for you to "complete the game", then it isn't really F2P, which I agree with. However, Nightwave could be a reliable source of free slots if DE kept up with it.

You are entitled to your perspective, but that isn't the popular definition of free to play in wikipedia or among most gamers AFAIK. 

It's still free to play with the game restricting how much actually, truly free stuff you can get over time. Before Nightwave they just restricted the amount of alerts with stuff like potatoes and the amount of events or other things that gave out "free slots". It was still designed to only allow a certain amount over time. That's normal in a free to play game, for you to have a limited source of true freeware you can get over any time period, and the rest you have to trade currency from other players who buy. 

But I understand why you have the definition you have, I just don't personally agree, and I think you will find at least the majority of people consider Free to play what I said above. 

That being said though, I don't think there should BE any downtime between Nightwave Seasons, and it sounds like most of your objections to the F2P moniker would go away if Nightwave seasons didn't have downtime between them with nothing happening. 

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

15 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Players can still get those just by getting platinum from trading

But if someone, somewhere, had to pay in real-world money in order for you to access all of the game (because you need at least 8 weapon slots to do all content in the game), then it isn't really F2P, at least from my perspective. That's where Nightwave comes in. If DE were better about keeping it current, and didn't have downtime and excessively long interims and the like, then Warframe would actually be F2P from my perspective because any player could, with enough time invested, get all of the weapon and warframe slots they need to do all content in the game, with no money trading hands. That's why I am so glad that Nightwave is not a paid BP system, as so many other games go for.

[MqToasty]

3 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

But if someone, somewhere, had to pay in real-world money in order for you to access all of the game (because you need at least 8 weapon slots to do all content in the game), then it isn't really F2P, at least from my perspective.

With all due respect, I think you are merely confusing "free to play" and "freeware".  Please read the Wikipedia article to understand what the term means.

[-Krism-]

2 hours ago, Raj42 said:

Warframe is listed as a Free to Play game but we know that it indeed is not because there is no in game way to get platinum

You know the devs still need to make money right?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

12 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

With all due respect, I think you are merely confusing "free to play" and "freeware".  Please read the Wikipedia article to understand what the term means.

If you can't complete the game (or do all of the content in the game, since a lot of games these days don't have a 'completed' state) without paying money, isn't the free part of the game just a glorified demo? Like Destiny 2; they said they were going 'F2P', but then they made it to where only the most basic part of the game was free and everything else was pay-to-play. I don't think Destiny 2 is actually F2P because of that. And I don't know how one could draw a line between F2P and 'Glorified Demo' without making it an absolute.

Warframe is better than Destiny 2 in that regard, but you still can't reliably do all content in the game without someone paying in money, because you aren't guaranteed to have a way to get more weapon slots (as long as Nightwave continues to be unreliable).

What I am advocating for is not 'Freeware'. Freeware has no monetary aspect. What I am advocating for is a game model in which players only pay money for convenience and cosmetics. That, in my mind, is the true F2P model, because at no point is anyone required to pay money to complete content.

There are multiple ways to pull of that kind of system. Warframe is really close with the Nightwave system but DE needs to keep up with it.

[TheAvidoZ]

1 minute ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Warframe is better than Destiny 2, but you still can't reliably do all content in the game without someone paying in money, because you aren't guaranteed to have a way to get more weapon slots (as long as Nightwave continues to be unreliable).

Except I (and many others like me) did just that. 

 

I still have my original 50 starter platinum and have completed the star chart and the quests. 

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

Just now, TheAvidoZ said:

Except I (and many others like me) did just that. 

 

I still have my original 50 starter platinum and have completed the star chart and the quests. 

How did you get the extra weapon slot needed to complete sorties? Or do you just ignore sorties that require a weapon you don't have?

[MqToasty]

1 minute ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

If you can't complete the game (or do all of the content in the game, since a lot of games these days don't have a 'completed' state) without paying money, isn't the free part of the game just a glorified demo? Like Destiny 2; they said they were going 'F2P', but then they made it to where only the most basic part of the game was free and everything else was pay-to-play. I don't think Destiny 2 is actually F2P because of that. And I don't know how one could draw a line between F2P and 'Glorified Demo' without making it an absolute.

Warframe is better than Destiny 2, but you still can't reliably do all content in the game without someone paying in money, because you aren't guaranteed to have a way to get more weapon slots (as long as Nightwave continues to be unreliable).

What I am advocating for is not 'Freeware'. Freeware has no monetary aspect. What I am advocating for is a game model in which players only pay money for convenience and cosmetics. That, in my mind, is the true F2P model, because at no point is anyone required to pay money to complete content.

There are multiple ways to pull of that kind of system. Warframe is really close with the Nightwave system but DE needs to keep up with it.

Please read the Wikipedia article.  A "Glorified Demo" (aka. "Shareware") IS a type of "free to play".  Specifically, Warframe has a "Freemium" business model, which is another subtype of "Free to Play".

Your line of argument is like complaining about these guys being liars because the package is freezing cold and contains no dogs.  No, that's not what "hot dog" means...

[Tesseract7777]

6 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

If you can't complete the game (or do all of the content in the game, since a lot of games these days don't have a 'completed' state) without paying money, isn't the free part of the game just a glorified demo? Like Destiny 2; they said they were going 'F2P', but then they made it to where only the most basic part of the game was free and everything else was pay-to-play. I don't think Destiny 2 is actually F2P because of that. And I don't know how one could draw a line between F2P and 'Glorified Demo' without making it an absolute.

Warframe is better than Destiny 2 in that regard, but you still can't reliably do all content in the game without someone paying in money, because you aren't guaranteed to have a way to get more weapon slots (as long as Nightwave continues to be unreliable).

What I am advocating for is not 'Freeware'. Freeware has no monetary aspect. What I am advocating for is a game model in which players only pay money for convenience and cosmetics. That, in my mind, is the true F2P model, because at no point is anyone required to pay money to complete content.

There are multiple ways to pull of that kind of system. Warframe is really close with the Nightwave system but DE needs to keep up with it.

What you are advocating for is, no offense, kind of unrealistic imo. 

No quality game is going to be able to monetize on just cosmetics and nebulous "conveniences". I just don't see how that is even possible. 

If you want high production values, somebody, somewhere, has to be paying for more than just a few cosmetics and qol of life rushing. I just don't see how you get that money. 

This is why the better F2P models are all a lot like WF, because there really isn't a better way to do it if you want enough monetization for high production values. 

[TheAvidoZ]

6 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

How did you get the extra weapon slot needed to complete sorties? Or do you just ignore sorties that require a weapon you don't have?

I do the sorties I want to run that involve the equipment I like to use. I've played long enough to know what weapons I like to play with and forced weapon modifiers aren't really content I like to play. I also don't do spy or Ambulas sorties either because it's just not content I want to play. Having extra slots is a convenience but not a requirement to access sorties. I am in no way locked out of content without paying money.