Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

There is a typo in the OP where Reb put an AND instead of AT.

So there is a concern the statuses will max at 3 for CO when she was saying that it will take three statuses for CO to reach/exceed PPP in damage output.

 

Where? All I see is "3 status now give the buff value that 2 used to give" with nothing suggesting a cap being either added or removed. Even TacticalPotato seems to think there is currently a cap of 3 status already active at this moment. So where is that coming from? This is what I meant it is not and has not been a thing, referring to present day as CO functions today.

[(PSN)Ragnar-_0_-]

I just played the nukor because my Staticor,  Synoid Gammacor ect gets a nerf. There Was a ton of good and Fun Weapons in the game. And now the nukor is one of those weapons I won't use. Nice

[thetoy323]

Is this solve the current problem?

I can totally say "NO"

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Where? All I see is "3 status now give the buff value that 2 used to give" with nothing suggesting a cap being either added or removed. Even TacticalPotato seems to think there is currently a cap of 3 status already active at this moment. So where is that coming from? This is what I meant it is not and has not been a thing, referring to present day as CO functions today.

Keyword there typo.  So it's not clear.  See bolded part please.  And suggests something was added.  Where this should be the word AT to say "it's just as good at this" instead of "it's just as good and this"

Quote

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

 

There should now be a more meaningful choice: do you want front loaded damage or a build up from multiple Status Types?

Condition Overload is changing from:
+120% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target.

To

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. 

 

[Maka.Bones]

What happened to the shotgun version of "galvanized scope"? (It would buff crit for shotguns)

 

Corinth really needs this, if it wants to stay relevant with these new changes. (...unless you guys are secretly planning to release an umbral/primed crit chance mod for shotguns)

[PlanckZero]

16 hours ago, Darkvramp said:

WHY DO WE HAVE  TO UNLOCK THESE! no where else in the game do we have to unlock anything like this on any frame or weapon! WHY HERE ON NORMAL WEAPONS!!!!!!

Because DE likes squeezing all of the "content" they can out of grinding and recycling old content.  They add these arcane unlockers to Steel Path as drops or redeemed from teshin and suddenly everyone that didn't care about the mode has to start farming it and keep farming it every time they get a new weapon.

Or the other thing DE loves, money.  Put the unlockers in the store and everyone needs to buy one for every weapon they want to use.

[(XBOX)Foighne]

I’ve taken some time to mull over the changes, and I think the only ones that can be justified are the attack speed mod parenting, and Kuva Nukor nerfs. Condition overload on its own isn’t a big deal, the reason it’s so strong is because of status spreader weapons like the Kuva Nukor. A below-average weapon like Kogake Prime is made pretty decent by including condition overload, but nerfing that mod then becomes an indirect mod to that weapon, and those like it. And it really sucks to have my favourite melee weapon ruined because of a mod’s interaction with an overpowered weapon.

[-BG-hunter72007]

I think these changes just flip-flop the balance of power right now. I'm particularly worried about the consequences towards frames that rely on melee weapons for example khora these are not the small nerfs to Melee that I was told I was getting. I have not done the math but with the way these mods are used currently this is a massive Nerf to melee overall. At best I would say a 50% decrease in total damage output for melee. I'm excited to try it out but I am hoping that if the community decides that we do not like these changes you will revert these melee changes.

[(NSW)Lolo]

the traditional gun (non AOE) is still weak.
and the most stupid point is,if you want your gun strong enough to do steel path, you needa fram those arcane frm steel path first. so at last you still needa depends on melee, even it nerf sooooo much. 

 

[Azrra]

What will hape with exalted guns? Like Mesa, Hyldrin or Titania, will they be able to equip the new mods and arcanes?
Mesa is fine but i always want to play Titania but i feel her guns need some help for steel path, you just waste a whole magazine on a single trash mob

[Jarriaga]

15 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Keyword there typo.  So it's not clear.  See bolded part please.  And suggests something was added.  Where this should be the word AT to say "it's just as good at this" instead of "it's just as good and this"

Then people are looking too much into it. Condition Overload was last reworked in October 2019 and that's waaaay to long ago as for people to not notice if it has been capped at 3 status ever since. That 3-status-cap is something DE did consider as seen in the melee phase 2 workshop but they decided not to implemen it in the actual update because it would make the nerf too extreme considering CO had already been changed from multiplicative to additive. They even gave an example of previous and current CO damage stats with 7 status, thus no cap because 7 is higher than 3.

[Jarriaga]

4 minutes ago, Azrra said:

What will hape with exalted guns? Like Mesa, Hyldrin or Titania, will they be able to equip the new mods and arcanes?
Mesa is fine but i always want to play Titania but i feel her guns need some help for steel path, you just waste a whole magazine on a single trash mob

Hopefully not. Otherwise I will riot considering that melee exalted weapons other than Desert Wind have been in a very bad state as of the melee phase 2 rework because they can't compete with regular melee weapons due to lack of BR and WW. Giving mesa a buff while Valkyr rots will piss me off.

[TeaHands]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

If we’re strong enough to kill enemies with a combination of abilities and weapons then we don’t need the gun “buff” mods

Then I guess you have nothing to worry about?

 

Steel Path is a horde mode, having a new way to be able to take on hordes and using them to ramp up damage and then taking out acolytes with fully buffed primaries or secondaries sounds like fun to me. But hey, doom and gloom away on the forums. I'm sure that's fun too.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Didn't read the influx of replies...

Just want to say, you could make it so Primary and Secondary weapons one-shot everything in the game, and had infinite punch-through, and I STILL wouldn't use them. It's not a matter of damage, it's a matter of what's FUN to me, and shooting guns has NEVER been fun to me. Guns are essentially fashion (if shown at all), for me, or utility, at best (for enemies that you just can't melee effectively, like Eidolons and whats-his-3-faces... Lephantis, and *shudder* that floating grineer head that screams at you)

The more you do to "tone down" melee, the more people who don't min/max, like me, are hurt, in these situations, our meager power chipped away at bit by bit, or forced to embrace meta junk.

*sigh* Don't force me to use guns, K?

[thetoy323]

8 hours ago, (PSN)ImperatorTJ said:

I love melee more than any Other Weapon type in this game. But These Change, Sound to me ver very annoying. As much as i love this game, the Lack of Story for the läßt 2 years and These Changes, really force me nearly never play this game anymore, because there is nothing to do. And if melee is getting nerfed instead of primär, secondary getting buffed I think I might even stop enjoing this last aspect. But lets See how Bad it is in game... 

I think so, I use melee because guns especually primary are too weak, while the most of melee isn't good either.

[Arcveid]

So heavy attack builds will be king now.....ok. Great job DE for putting the primary and secondary buffs behind content ......that you need those same buffs to ..."compete with melee"

Also i can not believe that DE thought ....hey everyone put on worse mods and try to kill in the hardest content (steel path) to make you weapons better to do "steel path".

The problem is with the better mods now.......now it cant compete so how in the world would a worse mod out preform the normal mods....like it might be only good in interception missions just because the enemies will always flow in but survival, defence, and any of the fast game missions WILL have lulls in combat so all the new mods are just out right worse then the normal version all the time.

Like i said at the beginning heavy attack 1 button win the game thx DE

[-Augustus-]

8 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Hopefully not. Otherwise I will riot considering that melee exalted weapons other than Desert Wind have been in a very bad state as of the melee phase 2 rework because they can't compete with regular melee weapons due to lack of BR and WW. Giving mesa a buff while Valkyr rots will piss me off.

It's not either-or. With these mods getting nerfed, the justification for keeping them off exalted melees is gone too. WW is apparently OK as-is, meaning it too is fine for inclusion. Exalted weapons either need massive buffs across the board, or to be treated just like normal for modding.

[Jarriaga]

3 minutes ago, -Augustus- said:

It's not either-or. With these mods getting nerfed, the justification for keeping them off exalted melees is gone too. WW is apparently OK as-is, meaning it too is fine for inclusion. Exalted weapons either need massive buffs across the board, or to be treated just like normal for modding.

I agree with you.

But if DE just allow for Mesa to benefit from this update ¨because regulators are pistols and it uses pistol mods" then I am going to be very pissed if exalted melees are not buffed or allowed to use BR/WW considering the state of Valkyr and even Wukong's Iron staff.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 minutes ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Then I guess you have nothing to worry about?

 

Steel Path is a horde mode, having a new way to be able to take on hordes and using them to ramp up damage and then taking out acolytes with fully buffed primaries or secondaries sounds like fun to me. But hey, doom and gloom away on the forums. I'm sure that's fun too.

Except we have to kill the enemies to receive the damage increases from the mods and arcanes. When the whole issue is that guns aren’t strong enough to begin with. So the idea of “kill with gun to buff gun so you can now kill the enemy that gun is struggling to kill” makes zero sense.

[Caliboom]

How about we overhaul Steel Path and actually make it challenging? Bullet sponges are not difficulty.

[-Augustus-]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

I agree with you.

But if DE just allow for Mesa to benefit from this update ¨because regulators are pistols and it uses pistol mods" then I am going to get very pissed off considering the state of Valkyr.

No arguments here, Warcry Valk P is my most played frame and ate some of my first umbra forma. I don't want any of the new 'mind this meter' BS reworks they've inflicted on some frames, but getting hysteria fixed and her claws in a better place would be really nice.

[Illvatar]

Dear Devs, in my opinion, not every weapon needs to be the same tier, some do need to be in bottom tier, some do need to be in top tier.

People ask about braton, burston, but I think where they're right now is fine, a low leveled weapon. And that's OK. But you choose to buff primary and secondary NOT by increasing their numbers but by giving them mods. But then you put Galvanized mod (your "buffs" to primary and secondary weapon) behind Steel Path, the content that primary and secondary needs their buff most.

It's like the "you need work experience to get a job, but you need a job to get work experience" = "We need galvanized mod for primary and secondary to be viable in Steel Path, but we need to be able to farm Steel Path to get galvanized mod"

[Carl8638]

🛀

no-no-nothing to say

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

Instead of introducing a bunch of new mods and arcanes, an easier way to bring top performers and lower performers closer together is to do away with multiplier interactions and make more things additive.

1. Viral procs and Critical Damage should be additive with Base Damage. Elemental Damage and Multi-shot give the same bonuses to all weapons, but Critical mods do not. Weapons with good Crit stats have an entire multiplier to take advantage that lesser weapons do not.

2. Enemy armor shouldn't scale. This is the sole reason for the dominance of Bleed. 

3. +100% flat Critical Chance on head-shots instead of a separate multiplier. Have the option to forego Critical Chance on precision weapons.

 

[Dairaion]

Is it actually happening?!? 
stop messing with the things I love.