The Dev Workshop that Broke the Camels Back

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

7 hours ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

I just remember Rebecca saying they would make a small change to attack speed and possibly to the stagger mechanics so enemies weren't stunlocked, which would have been great if that was all they nerfed. I really do feel sorry for the community team cuz they probably have to deal with the majority of the backlash. 

Bro, seriously? They literally "tapped" the nerf bar 1% and you proceed to write a gigantic War&Peace novel. 

- Attack speed down 5% for berserker: OMG, DE ruined my entire freakin life! Woe as me!!! Now the attacks are sensible...how DARE you DE!! 

There is not a single part of these changes that are worth crying about. Not ONE! Are you going to tell us that the kill fest is over because you have options? What, berserker fury and quickening or gladiator vice can't get the job done? Can't reach level 9999 now? Get outta here with that. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

Try actually reading it lol. Is that your thing? Just looking at a title and posting nonsensical replies? 

Oh I read it. But since you're leaving, why write it at all? That's my question, which I notice you didn't answer.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Calling any of these changes nerfs are stretching it.

Nukor we all saw coming come on, more shocked it just the chains and damage is perfectly untouched

Melee stuff is going to be barely noticeable at all, maybe the beserker for the few sluggish melees but everything else ain't going to change any of my builds.

Steel Essence despawning after 5 mins, i can't people people are mad about that. It kinda hilarious that some people are waiting 15 some mins and still not getting a smeeta double buff to pick up Essence. 

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Ah yeah that's me, I know it can be hard to follow threads this long. 

Yeah I can do them, even solo, I just don't enjoy it that much.

I may want to again if I ever get in the right mood, especially for resources. 

That's totally cool man, there's nothing wrong with that. Like I've said i just think DE is putting another bandaid on a problem.

[Aldain]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Bro, seriously? They literally "tapped" the nerf bar 1% and you proceed to write a gigantic War&Peace novel. 

- Attack speed down 5% for berserker: OMG, DE ruined my entire freakin life! Woe as me!!! Now the attacks are sensible...how DARE you DE!! 

Honestly they probably could extend the timer to 12-15 seconds instead, 10 is a bit too narrow and what it currently has is a bit much.

...Though I was shocked at how many people in the Workshop claimed to be stacking Fury/Quickening on top of Berserker, even on my Gram Prime I feel like I'm swinging too fast even with just Berserker.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Well, I'm talking more about people doing SE endurance runs, sorry if that isn't clear, not just regular SP missions non-endurance, which seems to be what they are focusing on. 

I have no stats, so I could be totally wrong and talking out of my butt, but I don't think there are that many people doing the SP for hours at a time. People doing it in general? Probably a lot of the playerbase though, as many newbie-ish players are finishing the solar map, and when they are still wet behind the ears, at least looking for advice on SP. So I'm sure the people just playing it regularly is a lot. 

The problem still stands even in regular game modes tho, not just endurance runs. The vast majority of guns are useless in SP. Even with the most optimal build. Okay yes, a lot of can kill those enemies, but only after using all of your ammo. And that's no exaggeration. TLDR Guns needed a buff for SP, DE nerfs melee, gives new mods/arcanes for guns but they're on kill, which doesn't do anything for the initial problem of guns not being strong enough to get kills in SP.

K I'm done for the night, have a good one man, thanks for the comments and replies and such. I'm going to chillax and catch the new Rick n Morty, peace

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

I know right? Is there even a build that can make those...remotely work?

I know a few weapons have forced Impact procs, but I haven't seen anyone hash the math out to how powerful the Slash procs are supposed to be.

It's actually a pretty over the top mod. Most aoes and some bows are impact heavy and works really well on the Proboscis. It's just another option that is much easier to implement than a redo that another group would complain about because it doesn't fit their vision. Endless cycle that's not really worth going through the trouble for until after the main story is done.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

13 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Oh I read it. But since you're leaving, why write it at all? That's my question, which I notice you didn't answer.

You didn't read it, cuz i never said i was leaving, thanks for playing try again troll

[-CdG-Zilchy]

8 hours ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

I really do hope the best for you guys. But if WF stays on its current path, this Tenno can't walk it with you. 

 

You were saying?

You're obviously not unintelligent so I would point you towards the quote you used in your Topic name, which literally implies that you're leaving.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Bro, seriously? They literally "tapped" the nerf bar 1% and you proceed to write a gigantic War&Peace novel. 

- Attack speed down 5% for berserker: OMG, DE ruined my entire freakin life! Woe as me!!! Now the attacks are sensible...how DARE you DE!! 

There is not a single part of these changes that are worth crying about. Not ONE! Are you going to tell us that the kill fest is over because you have options? What, berserker fury and quickening or gladiator vice can't get the job done? Can't reach level 9999 now? Get outta here with that. 

It's not my problem you don't understand the nerfs. This post was aimed for people with enough experience to actually know what they're talking about it. And that's clearly not you. 

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

You were saying?

You're obviously not unintelligent so I would point you towards the quote you used in your Topic name, which literally implies that you're leaving.

Wow great job, implications are different than outright saying I'm leaving, or saying that if DE continues to make crap choices i won't be sticking around. No where did i say "screw you guys I'm out", except right now, Screw you guys, I'm out! Have fun talking to yourself bud.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

8 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Honestly they probably could extend the timer to 12-15 seconds instead, 10 is a bit too narrow and what it currently has is a bit much.

...Though I was shocked at how many people in the Workshop claimed to be stacking Fury/Quickening on top of Berserker, even on my Gram Prime I feel like I'm swinging too fast even with just Berserker.

Right, and I do think DE only wanted to address the "unreasonable" side of the issue. Most of the complaints are from the extremes and often go the extremes, so it's hard to find a good middle ground of ideas to fine tune. Your idea, for example, is a much better discussion because my new questions that stem from a challenge (subjective, I know) vs an actual, regressive nerf. Considering how effective a 10-second combo timer is over the default 5, I think the 10-second attack speed would work nice except for non interception and defense.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

Wow great job, implications are different than outright saying I'm leaving, or saying that if DE continues to make crap choices i won't be sticking around. No where did i say "screw you guys I'm out", except right now, Screw you guys, I'm out! Have fun talking to yourself bud.

Perhaps you should consider your wording better then because regardless of your intentions, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND that most of the people in this thread assumed this is a goodbye/rant thread. Something for you to think about, have a nice day. And for the record, had you been clearer with your intentions, it would've been a better discussion thread.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

It's not my problem you don't understand the nerfs. This post was aimed for people with enough experience to actually know what they're talking about it. And that's clearly not you. 

Ok, bye-bye. 

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Perhaps you should consider your wording better then because regardless of your intentions, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND that most of the people in this thread assumed this is a goodbye/rant thread.

With that we've actually somehow gone full circle in this thread concerning reading intonations from text.

Considering most of the first page is dedicated to outlining that DE likely isn't putting a cap on Condition Overload despite the poor word choices.

[Galuf]

I agree with OP about the arcanes. I get why DE put arcanes there, it is monetization to be added but I feel it is on the cheap side. In terms of numbers the nerf is extremly big, it is a quadratic one for hybrid builds so the dps loss will be huge, some melee weapons were very good for SP but they were not blattantly op, the nerf will make them feel bad, some will remain viable with a big riven I think but that's it.

The melee dice meta nerf is mostly impacting players with bare bone loadouts. There are dozens of way to "break" the game but for breaking the game with melee you just need 1 good prime weapon(quickly farmed, especially if you are doing the game as 3-4 friends) then you throw an hybrid build on top of it and it is done, you can rekt anything in the game, SP included. Honestly I don't get the change on melee, the game since its inception had op melee builds, and it made sense by the fact that going melee to kill is never good anyway, so "poorer" people would still kill stuff satisfyingly, while "richer" people would kill with spells just by moving(or/and out of LoS) or aoe from afar with guns(like with a multiforma amprex/ignis then later on with other weapons)

There are dozens of others way to break the game, this patch with just change what frames I'll use in the future, but for more casual or newer players, it will be an issue.

[TheArmchairThinker]

8 hours ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

I'm an MR30 with around 4k hours into the game. I've spent well over $1k usd over the years on Prime Accesses and various Packs. This by no means makes me an expert, but I can confidently say I understand the game and it's content, and by default DE in general, than the majority of newer players.

Bringing MR has little relevance considering anyone can simply make every single item and leech in hydron/draco before the change. Spending over $1k also doesn't make you any special considering there are more people that spent as much if not more than you. 4k hours? Not really special either, you're not the only one with that amount of time spent

8 hours ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

They say attack speed was too high, you couldn't see and appreciate the animations. Does the berserker changes fix that? No. Which is fine by me, i think lowering it too much would be too detrimental to weapons with slower attack speeds. The on kill change, and lowering of the duration to 10 secs is a bit much imo also. Being able to seamlessly and quickly mow down enemies with your blade of choice is a favorite playstyle to a lot of WF players. Rebecca herself said that they would never nerf melee too much because of that very reason. 

Going down from 75% to 70% is too much? That's over exaggerating and I have to say swinging a giant blade like it's a wooden stick isn't that good when those with lower damage output or range might get left behind. On kill means it's no longer just being beneficial to weapons with high critical chance, now any melee weapon can get similar amount of speed

Second, melee is way overtuned when you can just swing a giant blade with 200+ base damage, before putting mods that make you look like a blender blade and that's not a good sign (didn't people say warframe needs balance to have challenge and difficulty?), It's prone to get toned down sooner or later

9 hours ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

The changes to Blood Rush and Condition Overload. Oh boy. Blood Rush gets a third of its cc potential removed. Why again? Because there's too many red crits? Wow ok. If you take a look at all the melee weapons, there's actually a small percentage that can red crit with only Blood Rush. Condition Overload changes. Big Yikes on this one. Damage reduced to 80% per status. Ok that's not bad, CO was already a really powerful mod. Oh and it's going back to only 3 status types. What? That's what's in the dev notes. Go check it out because a lot of people are missing this HUGE little point. DE tell us you hate endurance players without telling us you hate endurance players. You know, like a lot of your veteran players. The ones that have and potentially will spend the most money with you guys. 

When melee can just casually deal 30m red crit while primary and secondary are struggling to deal a fraction of that damage, how can you say it's balanced? Or what kind of so-called difficulty and challenge you can provide when people keep asking for that?

CO is way too strong especially when it deals many folds compared to primed pressure point, it's not a surprise it will get addressed and if I have to say, CO shouldn't stack with Pressure Point/Primed Pressure Point to make choices whether you want a passive damage increase or higher one with condition to fulfill

And what do endurance players chase though? Also, pretty sure veterans or anyone with capability to survive multiple hours in one mission (which is not really healthy for the player) won't spend money and choose to get money from trading

9 hours ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

We have to unlock the arcane slots, for every ranged weapon, with some kind of adapter from Teshin for 15 Steel Essence EACH. This blows my mind. You're basically punishing us for your ineptitude. These should be FREE, on every gun. Period. Full Stop.

Pretty sure there are players that want vertical progression, chasing higher power like mainstream games out there with power level/ character level so here we are, a sort of NG+ with stronger items to chase.

Why is it locked behind steel essence? I believe it's to prevent new players from accessing "endgame items" straight away by paying ( pretty sure there are people ready to scream pay to win if you can buy it from other players)

9 hours ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

And then the icing on the proverbial cake. Steel Essence will now despawn after 5 minutes. Yea you say you've increased acolyte spawn times. You said when acolytes were first implemented in SP that they would spawn every 5 mins. Which is not the case the vast majority of times. So i suspect this acolyte "buff", is to actually get them to that 5 min time. This despawn timer isnt for any other resource in the game, just SE. Why is it such a big issue that we spend an hour in a survival just on the chance we get a proc from our smeetas? Ah too much kuva. Yes we've gotten more ways to farm it. Are they good? No. It takes 3500 kuva for 1 roll. The sortie reward is 6000 kuva which I've always thought was hilarious. Floods and siphons give what, 1200-1800. And don't get me started on arbi's. So as you can see Steel Essence is the only viable kuva farm. Yes we actually do need 100k kuva for 2 hours in a survival when the VAST majority of riven rolls are garbage. + Faction damage + faction damage - 100% multishot, FANTASTIC, there went 3500 kuva. Rivens are what keep a lot of us Vets playing the game. And you've constantly crapped on them. Lowering the dispo to .5 on new weapons makes rivens worthless on those, and makes prime weapons irrelevant and worse off than their non-primed with a riven counterpart. What are you guys thinking? Seriously it seems like every new nerf hits vets harder than anyone else. Rivens are the only good reward, that can keep on rewarding, if the supply of kuva is good. Do i really want to spend an hour in a survival so i can just roll my riven 5 times? No. I don't. 

When we have threads of complain like that thread of not getting any drop because the map is cluttered with loot from afk player, preventing enemies from dropping item or people exploiting smeeta for massive gain per item pickup (900 SE in one pick up is surely not something intended, is it?), you can tell what will happen

Also, basically it's a rant on your efficient kuva farming? Sorry to say if that's your only reason to play, I'm afraid I have to tell you to take a look why you keep playing

.5 disposition because they learned not to make disposition neutral only to cause a meltdown on disposition change, and easier to determine their strength without riven interference

[--EC--Adrenaline]

Honestly these small changes mean nothing, damage scale will still be insane regardless.

Even if there were any meaningful changes to weapons/melee, gameplay will still be the same and that's the actual problem

Instead of pushing DE to bring actual fun content instead of the same old with a different theme, you people bicker so hard on this stupid stuff

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

31 minutes ago, Galuf said:

Honestly I don't get the change on melee, the game since its inception had op melee builds, and it made sense by the fact that going melee to kill is never good anyway..

Melee was strictly worse than guns and was a weapon of last resort until the Acolyte mods were released.

Melee weapons were chosen solely at how well they allowed you to copter.

The elephant in the room is the ever growing drain on newer mods and how so many new weapons have 0 starting polarities.

DE really wants players to buy Forma.

Guns either need a way to get extra capacity, something similar to a stance or aura mod, or have their mods reduced in cost across the board by 2-3 drain.

[Aldain]

34 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

or have their mods reduced in cost across the board by 2-3 drain.

Or in the case of things like Metal Augur...knock about 6 drain off it and make it an Exilus mod.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Bringing MR has little relevance considering anyone can simply make every single item and leech in hydron/draco before the change. Spending over $1k also doesn't make you any special considering there are more people that spent as much if not more than you. 4k hours? Not really special either, you're not the only one with that amount of time spent

Going down from 75% to 70% is too much? That's over exaggerating and I have to say swinging a giant blade like it's a wooden stick isn't that good when those with lower damage output or range might get left behind. On kill means it's no longer just being beneficial to weapons with high critical chance, now any melee weapon can get similar amount of speed

Second, melee is way overtuned when you can just swing a giant blade with 200+ base damage, before putting mods that make you look like a blender blade and that's not a good sign (didn't people say warframe needs balance to have challenge and difficulty?), It's prone to get toned down sooner or later

When melee can just casually deal 30m red crit while primary and secondary are struggling to deal a fraction of that damage, how can you say it's balanced? Or what kind of so-called difficulty and challenge you can provide when people keep asking for that?

CO is way too strong especially when it deals many folds compared to primed pressure point, it's not a surprise it will get addressed and if I have to say, CO shouldn't stack with Pressure Point/Primed Pressure Point to make choices whether you want a passive damage increase or higher one with condition to fulfill

And what do endurance players chase though? Also, pretty sure veterans or anyone with capability to survive multiple hours in one mission (which is not really healthy for the player) won't spend money and choose to get money from trading

Pretty sure there are players that want vertical progression, chasing higher power like mainstream games out there with power level/ character level so here we are, a sort of NG+ with stronger items to chase.

Why is it locked behind steel essence? I believe it's to prevent new players from accessing "endgame items" straight away by paying ( pretty sure there are people ready to scream pay to win if you can buy it from other players)

When we have threads of complain like that thread of not getting any drop because the map is cluttered with loot from afk player, preventing enemies from dropping item or people exploiting smeeta for massive gain per item pickup (900 SE in one pick up is surely not something intended, is it?), you can tell what will happen

Also, basically it's a rant on your efficient kuva farming? Sorry to say if that's your only reason to play, I'm afraid I have to tell you to take a look why you keep playing

.5 disposition because they learned not to make disposition neutral only to cause a meltdown on disposition change, and easier to determine their strength without riven

Apparently you didn't read what i wrote, or just didn't understand. I stated my mr and how long I've played, then specifically said that doesn't make me an expert but that i do know the game and DE better than most newer players. 

About berserker where did i say a 5% decrease was too much? 

My main point about melee nerfs is that this whole thing was supposed to be about buffing guns, with possibly nerfing melees attack speed and stagger/stunlocking. The melee changes weren't needed at all. Melee has always been powerful, why the sudden concern. 

They want progression so adding a arcane slot is a good choice for that? You're just spouting nonsense at this point. 

Picking up 900 SE? Lol how and who is picking up 900 SE at a time? I can guarantee it's never been anyone in any of your squads. If you don't think DE wants to severely limit the kuva we get, then you clearly don't understand the issue. With this update they're adding even more things to buy with SE but only want us getting 24 an hour. Further pushing people to buy a booster that they can't use a discount on. I really do feel sorry for free to play players because people like you can't think about the larger picture. 

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

54 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Melee was strictly worse than guns and was a weapon of last resort until the Acolyte mods were released.

Melee weapons were chosen solely at how well they allowed you to copter.

The elephant in the room is the ever growing drain on newer mods and how so many new weapons have 0 starting polarities.

DE really wants players to buy Forma.

Guns either need a way to get extra capacity, something similar to a stance or aura mod, or have their mods reduced in cost across the board by 2-3 drain.

THIS POINT HERE!! It was blatantly obvious to me and many others that when they stopped Plague Star conspicuously around the time they released kuva weapons, it was only because of forma. If you bought formas in forma bundles for all the Kuva weapons, it comes out to a little over 900p. That's not including a catalyst for each one. Or exilus mod slots. And i completely agree that with these new mods it seems like space is gonna be a bit cramped with a riven and fully ranked mods. 

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Bringing MR has little relevance considering anyone can simply make every single item and leech in hydron/draco before the change. Spending over $1k also doesn't make you any special considering there are more people that spent as much if not more than you. 4k hours? Not really special either, you're not the only one with that amount of time spent

Going down from 75% to 70% is too much? That's over exaggerating and I have to say swinging a giant blade like it's a wooden stick isn't that good when those with lower damage output or range might get left behind. On kill means it's no longer just being beneficial to weapons with high critical chance, now any melee weapon can get similar amount of speed

Second, melee is way overtuned when you can just swing a giant blade with 200+ base damage, before putting mods that make you look like a blender blade and that's not a good sign (didn't people say warframe needs balance to have challenge and difficulty?), It's prone to get toned down sooner or later

When melee can just casually deal 30m red crit while primary and secondary are struggling to deal a fraction of that damage, how can you say it's balanced? Or what kind of so-called difficulty and challenge you can provide when people keep asking for that?

CO is way too strong especially when it deals many folds compared to primed pressure point, it's not a surprise it will get addressed and if I have to say, CO shouldn't stack with Pressure Point/Primed Pressure Point to make choices whether you want a passive damage increase or higher one with condition to fulfill

And what do endurance players chase though? Also, pretty sure veterans or anyone with capability to survive multiple hours in one mission (which is not really healthy for the player) won't spend money and choose to get money from trading

Pretty sure there are players that want vertical progression, chasing higher power like mainstream games out there with power level/ character level so here we are, a sort of NG+ with stronger items to chase.

Why is it locked behind steel essence? I believe it's to prevent new players from accessing "endgame items" straight away by paying ( pretty sure there are people ready to scream pay to win if you can buy it from other players)

When we have threads of complain like that thread of not getting any drop because the map is cluttered with loot from afk player, preventing enemies from dropping item or people exploiting smeeta for massive gain per item pickup (900 SE in one pick up is surely not something intended, is it?), you can tell what will happen

Also, basically it's a rant on your efficient kuva farming? Sorry to say if that's your only reason to play, I'm afraid I have to tell you to take a look why you keep playing

.5 disposition because they learned not to make disposition neutral only to cause a meltdown on disposition change, and easier to determine their strength without riven interference

And no one's talking about afk players. I agree afk players suck. But not picking up a resource until smeeta procs is not afk farming. If you know of any links that do complain about the smeeta Steel Essence farm I'd really love to see them, just give it a quick link please, thanks. 

[nerfinator6]

10 hours ago, Aldain said:

No it isn't, there was no wording of a cap anywhere in that workshop.

"We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally."

Go actually read the damn thing.

[Aldain]

24 minutes ago, nerfinator6 said:

"We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally."

Go actually read the damn thing.

Might I suggest you read through this thread and see that "originally" in this context is referring to it being better than PPP at 2 status currently (240% at 120% per status) and after the change being at that same amount at 3 statuses? (80% times 3 being 240%)?