Dev Workshop: Corrupted Holokey Changes

[TheMikhail]

Will there be any grandfathering for all the sisters you have already fought?  I might be an outlier here, but I have already farmed all the weapons and ephemera, so I have done a lot.  Granted not all my weapons are at 60%, so there is room to farm there.  

Getting holokeys for all previously fought sisters would be most welcome!!

[eneki123]

I don't usually post in the forums, but I felt like it might be worth it this time.

Please reconsider. The amount is not the biggest issue, the drop rate is - as echoed in some other comments.

Consider how your players feel. What do we get when we fail to get the holokeys? Sevagoth parts. A lot of us don't need those anymore. If it was endo? Fine, I guess? But as it is, if we don't get what we're after, we get nothing for our effort most of the time - or that's how it feels for a lot of players.

 

Consider how your players will behave. Veil missions grant 10? Sure, that's better than before. Lower level missions grant one extra on top of the old amount? Sure, that's better than before, but...  How do you justify running them now? I used to run veil and pluto void storms for optimal drops - they were close enough it didn't matter that much. I could justify running the lower tier mission because it was more fun. After the proposed change however? Most people won't run lower tier void storms at all, since the potential rewards being that different will make it very hard for people to justify the time commitment required.

 

Please reconsider.

 

Love,

eneki

[Drakorix]

1 minute ago, TheMikhail said:

Will there be any grandfathering for all the sisters you have already fought?  I might be an outlier here, but I have already farmed all the weapons and ephemera, so I have done a lot.  Granted not all my weapons are at 60%, so there is room to farm there.  

Getting holokeys for all previously fought sisters would be most welcome!!

Doubt that will be done, someone has to play RJ Afterall :D

 

[Culaio]

11 minutes ago, LunarisDream said:

Gamers really are the biggest crybabies in existence. Lv100 Void storm skirmishes can be speedrun in 3 minutes for a massive amount of credits, endo (which are needed for the new Galvanized mods and RJ mods), relics, void traces, and potentially holokeys. Each mission has like 4 bonus rewards yet you cry about getting Sevagoth parts. Keep in mind that you can still get a 3k credits cache hours into a survival but nobody's complaining about that, even though that's 1 reward every 5 minutes, as opposed to 5 rewards every 3-4 minutes. 5!

Learn to RJ efficiently and quit whining over a non-issue. The amount of stuff you get is crazy for the time spent when done properly.

Oh, and you crack a relic every run as well, which you normally would do on starchart fissures regardless. You will almost always come out ahead in # of relics gained vs spent, when you would normally only break even in a normal fissure run in The Void. That's more passive ducats/plat gained ON TOP of the mission rewards. Not to mention the void traces gained are higher than starchart fissures as well.

Void Storm rewards are so plentiful I'm baffled people are still running normal void fissures. You don't even have to move around as much as you do in a normal map, especially if playing pilot or forward artillery. Shoot 8 crewships, press 3 a couple times, mission complete.

did 10 void storms in a row got ZERO holokeys, also since I already maxed out railjack stuff before, bonus rewards have no value to me, dont need credits(over 170 million credits), dont need endo either(over 300k), litereally only thing I want is holokeys that dont want to drop for me...

[Bman497]

I like to hold my concerns till I have the update in my hands, but I do have something to say. This regardless is a positive change that I thank very much. I'd also like to remind people in the forums right now that you need to get the holokey drop in the veil around 8 times to get one weapon. That has been reduced to 4. This is a good change and reduces the time to get a weapon significantly. However I absolutely agree that this was never a problem with the amount of keys you got, but more of the drop rate to get them.

In the Veil currently, you have 30% chance of a Sevagoth part, 20% chance of a specific Axi Relic, 12.5% chance for 1200 endo, and a 2.5% chance for a resource pack. That's 65% chance of not getting the holokeys. I don't know how the game rolls this, if it goes through everything in order individually or just rolls it all together, but this is a huge gap for a new resource. I really don't like seeing this trend of adding new things to a drop table of a preexisting mode that only clutters an already large drop table.

I am pretty certain I have done around 100+ runs of mostly the Veil Proxima for this. I have purchased seven weapons. I primarily do the Veil but in the beginning I was trying to test other modes to see what was efficient. But these tests were very few in number because I found doing the Veil more efficient because the drop rate is so low compared to the amount of everything else It just made sense to stick to the Veil.

I look forward to seeing the changes still. Though with the holokey concerns and the ambassador drop rates too, I would like to say that it was never a problem about the amount of keys, but the drop rate itself.

Keep up the good work!

P.s. I have so many Sevagoth parts now, having duplicate protection would absolutely help solve this issue in my opinion. The void traces that the holokeys replaced had duplicate protection, so it would be cool to see Warframe parts have the same protection at least in the Veil Proxima.

[thebigMuh]

Fantastic. Now I can be annoyed at not getting 10 keys at mission end instead of not getting 6 keys at mission end. 🎉

[Helixsliver]

37 minutes ago, ImmortalToucan said:

Now that's cool and but still it doesn't fix the fact that it completely diluted the droptables, and it's not a reward that can be capped out like void traces were... Also 4 per sister vanquished is kind of a small amount I'd say.

Things will be slightly better, but the main concerns are still untouched.

I think it's only 1 per sister with 4 assuming a full squad. The diluted drop tables of warframe has been annoying before but they feel significantly worse in railjack

[AndyRose7]

still the same problem... drop chance.

I will continue without farm this content.

[Saturndoot]

please consider making the sisters drop holokeys when defeated during missions like how kuva liches drop kuva.

[Monolake]

30 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno,

Our Sisters of Parvos Update launched earlier this month, and was quickly followed by TennoCon 2021. We Hotfixed a lot of essential things before we held our event, and we’ve had ample time to read feedback, review stats, and see how players are engaging with all things Proxima regions. The feedback has been great, and we intend on making a change to Corrupted Holokeys.  

When it comes to introducing new avenues for gear in Warframe, our intention is always striking a balance of recognizing all players ‘start from 0’ when it comes to new systems. In the case of Tenet Melee weapons and Corrupted Holokeys, there are two things in play - 4 day inventory rotations, and Corrupted Holokey acquisition. Because of the 4 day rotation, we agree that the Corrupted Holokey acquisition can be increased so players have an easier time earning them while they play, and also connect them more to the Sisters of Parvos.

Corrupted Holokey Changes: 

• In the final Railjack Showdown node for a Sister of Parvos, each Sister will give each squad member 1 Corrupted Holokey at End-of-Mission whether you Vanquish or Convert them! This means a Squad of 4 can leave with 4 Corrupted Holokeys each on Showdown mission complete! 

• Corrupted Holokey drop amounts have been increased in Void Storms! Void Storms in the Veil Proxima will now drop 10 (vs 6) to make the hardest content the most rewarding. The rest have all had their amounts increased by 1. 

 

See you in the next few weeks with these changes on all platforms, Tenno!

 

Come on, why are you punishing solo players? Only a single key?  You know well that some people cant even play co-op due to technical problems and solo is already massively unrewarding in general...  And then liches take quite a long while so its not a viable farming method either.

And with Void Storms droprate chance is the issue - its not even close to 37%, Ive got nothing out of 10+ Veil runs, zero holokeys. And then only some overall from way over 20 runs, making it less than 20% - something is bugged in your droptables, please double-check.

And in the end everyone hates Holokeys farm because the missions themselves are not fun - no matter the rewards. You notice how no one cares what they get? rad relics, prime parts, tokens to buy new weapons, endo... the rewards are not bad - yet everyone is still unhappy and dont enjoy doing Void storms - because the missions themselves are bad, its too much traversing and jumping in and out, its not fun at all, even people who liked doing RJ dont like it either because RJ became just time-padding towards the ground missions... Im not your gamedesigner to offer you a solution but the problem is pretty clear.

[Wiz3rd]

8 minutes ago, Okayane said:

imagine arguing about the fact that you have to farm on a farming game, big brain right there, guaranted drop will kill this part of the game thats why drop rates exist dude welcome to the MMO types of games 37.5% is already a good drop chance, if you want to argue on the drop rate of something do it over the fact that some random mods that add nothing to the game have less then 0.5% drop chance 😉

Then I'd rather this part of the game die a miserable death so I can do something actually enjoyable.

[LunarisDream]

3 minutes ago, Culaio said:

did 10 void storms in a row got ZERO holokeys, also since I already maxed out railjack stuff before, bonus rewards have no value to me, dont need credits(over 170 million credits), dont need endo either(over 300k), litereally only thing I want is holokeys that dont want to drop for me...

You're very unlucky then, but it sounds like you've done too much grinding prior to this. There's no way DE can cater to the top 0.1% of players by releasing new things in an exclusive drop table of nothing but that specific thing, every time. It goes against the nature of the game, which is to get people to spend their time, or their plat, for the newest and greatest goodies. In this case it's time only, but the vast majority of the players do need the credits and endo, which void storms drop plenty of.

[(PSN)RJBrian]

No thanks, it's STILL not worth the grind.

Make it a guaranteed drop each VS mission & then I might consider it.

[Shilag]

We should just get that 1 extra holokey guaranteed for finishing a void storm instead, no matter what tier. Then the rewards are a chance for a bonus. That way you have a distinct goal to work towards.

[Temragon]

As almost everyone else is saying, the changes are positive, but please consider either making getting holokeys an every-RJ-mission mechanic (eg interacting with a console in the derelict PoI), or smooth out the drop rate so they're consistent and don't have the opportunity to give people as bad of a run of luck, with the same overall estimated grind time.

In normal warframe I wouldn't really complain, but Void Storms are the only thing that have ever chased me off of warframe with bugs, lost rewards etc. I know I'm not alone, so patience there is extra thin. (And I liked V1/2 railjack) 

2 minutes ago, LunarisDream said:

You're very unlucky then, but it sounds like you've done too much grinding prior to this. There's no way DE can cater to the top 0.1% of players by releasing new things in an exclusive drop table of nothing but that specific thing, every time. It goes against the nature of the game, which is to get people to spend their time, or their plat, for the newest and greatest goodies. In this case it's time only, but the vast majority of the players do need the credits and endo, which void storms drop plenty of.

50 keys in 50 missions with 1 key per mission or 10 keys at a 10% rate is the same target investment time. This is the main point being made in this thread. More consistency, not faster. A bit of RNG can feel good. Too much causes outliers that really build up negativity and resentment. 

[Culaio]

2 minutes ago, LunarisDream said:

You're very unlucky then, but it sounds like you've done too much grinding prior to this. There's no way DE can cater to the top 0.1% of players by releasing new things in an exclusive drop table of nothing but that specific thing, every time. It goes against the nature of the game, which is to get people to spend their time, or their plat, for the newest and greatest goodies. In this case it's time only, but the vast majority of the players do need the credits and endo, which void storms drop plenty of.

punishing players who play your game regularly is bad thing to do, I never farmed credits, neither did I farm endo, I just accumulated it through normal play and I dont spend huge amount of time playing, around 1-2 hours a day, only play longer when new prime access drop, or farm some new weapon that was added.

[Okayane]

il y a 2 minutes, Wiz3rd a dit :

Then I'd rather this part of the game die a miserable death so I can do something actually enjoyable.

what a great mentality...  no one force you to play this game dude if you're not happy with how things turns out just don't play it. Don't spoil other people experience ;)

[RenzorTheRed]

57 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

• Corrupted Holokey drop amounts have been increased in Void Storms! Void Storms in the Veil Proxima will now drop 10 (vs 6) to make the hardest content the most rewarding. The rest have all had their amounts increased by 1. 

 

That's good. I wonder if you guys might make the adjustments retroactive? I myself have grinded the 40 twice. So ... many ... railjack ... missions....

 

Also, Brozime recommended getting a minimum of at least 1 holo key on a mission, no matter what the RNG. That'd be a nice chance.

[(XBOX)Spartan117qz]

10 minutes ago, Saturndoot said:

please consider making the sisters drop holokeys when defeated during missions like how kuva liches drop kuva.

That would actually be a fantastic change, and now that you said a good idea, DE will not do it.

[malum2000]

but anyone that farmed the holokeys so far and grinded their sanity away, wont get any recompensation
THANKS

[Leqesai]

48 minutes ago, Drungly said:

No changes to drop chance? That was my biggest complaint (and others too).

No changes to drop chance but this should effectively drop the average number of missions significantly (4 minimum compared to 7 minimum). While I still detest the glast system for releasing these weapons the change to drop amount is a pretty big QOL boost. 

The only real issue remaining is the 4 day cycle. If this were changed to 1 (or even 2) days it would put aquiring these new weapons more on par with the other tenet weapons. Though as it stands the minimum number of missions required is much more consistent with how long it takes to do sisters now (number of missions trying to get weapon + number of missions required to kill sister). 

The addition of holokeys to the sister drop table is nice but you'd need to clear 3 full showdown groups to get the same number of holokeys as one void mission (because void missions drop 10 per stack you would still need a minimum of 4 missions until you've done 3 full showdown groups). For players who have a lot of sisters left to farm this is a great change but kind of a kick to the nards for anyone who has already farmed dozens of sisters.

[Kaiune]

An easier fix would be just to move Sevagoth's parts to the bonus missions loot table and that would free up 33% drop chance to give to the holo keys. And since the keys are evergreen rewards and Sevagoth's parts are kinda useless after you have built 2 that would make more since to relegate him to something more purposeful (like going to an assasination mission is for a lot of frames). 

[(PSN)KingOfChaos9202]

46 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

In the final Railjack Showdown node for a Sister of Parvos, each Sister will give each squad member 1 Corrupted Holokey at End-of-Mission whether you Vanquish or Convert them! This means a Squad of 4 can leave with 4 Corrupted Holokeys each on Showdown mission complete! 

I agree that these changes are good, but they are still not really what we players wanted, which is drop chance increase because we don't want to get useless rewards at the end of a mission.

But that aside, this part that I quoted is just really lazy move to try to make us to play final showdown with lich in a squad. Most people do this solo because its just less frustrating and faster like it, and adding reward like a 1 holokey wont change anything. You already made that everyone in a squad needs to have their lich on a same part to be able to actually play that last mission together, so whats the point on adding small reward for it? And 1 holokey is just to laugh, even if we play in a squad it will still need to finish 10 liches to be able to get a weapon, not to mention that final showdown is in neptune proxima, which will (after an update) give 5 holokeys on the end of a voidstorm mission if we're lucky. If you really want to make us play that final showdown in a squad, you should make that reward same as proxima (which is 5 per squadmate) so we can actually get 20 each, so that we can get our melee weapon after just 2 liches

[(PSN)Gunk_Ho]

This is a great change only problem I’m having with warframe is the fact there is a bug where you don’t load into railjack missions and then also some railjack missions the enemy’s don’t spawn so you can’t compleat the missions. Another issue is the kavat charm dosent work because I’ve had missions where I’ve done 3 hours and got 1 boost from it. 

[(PSN)SiIent_Jaeger]

Great changes, this will cut the grind a lot.

Also, please fix the tenet diplos aim lock bullets feature and make it as alt fire or just remove it, this feature make the gun unusable.