Why I do not want Wukong nerfed

[-Vahagn-]

So the 2021 stats have been released and it shows some interesting data. Pretty cool stuff to see overall but this does however lead to one problem I am worried. As with all the times these stats have been released, the highest used Warframe is always the target for nerfs by the community, with this time being Wukong. Though thankfully not as many people are demanding his nerf as I thought. Yet I still feel I should give my thoughts on this.

So to begin, I am not a Wukong main. I know there will be those who feel I do not want him nerfed because he's my husubandu and I have body pillows of him. However the truth is that Ember _{and Zephyr} is actually the best so I have no attachment to Wukong. Thus my opinion is purely from the perspective of someone who plays alongside Wukong and not as Wukong. With that out of the way let us really begin.

 

To start Wukong's high usage in the stats is more so due to his usage as a jack of all trades Warframe. Rather than him being the most broken or OP Warframe in the game. Really for every good thing he does, there is another frame that can do it better. He is a Warframe who can be taken to almost every mission in the game can do just fine, but he is by no means a master of everything. Which does lead to an issue I have with Wukong. Since outside of his clone he does not really do anything to standout, even in missions. In fact I often forget Wukong is even on the team or in the mission. He lacks the unique presence that a lot of others frames have in the game. 

This might sound confusing but let me explain. Almost every frame has a special playstyle and abilities that give them a unique presence in a mission. For example, I know when the team has a Nidus because as the infested frame who spreads his tentacles everywhere, a Valkyr because she runs around and screams all over the place, and a Gauss because he crashes into walls. So my special bro team consists of a plague god, a bloodthirsty Catwoman and a crash dummy. Yet with Wukong I do not feel the same way, because he does not feel like the a Monkey King, he feels like a collection of stats and buffs. His 1st ability is basically a passive, his 2nd is great but I wish it was much more cooler.  I have never seen his 3rd ability used outside of helminth combos on other frames, and his 4st I have never seen used at all. Really his 4th feels like its there because it has too, not because it needs too. So yes while he can do a lot of stuff, he feels very disconnected from his theme and stitched together with tape. Thus I do not feel nerfing him will fix this issue, if anything it will make it worse.

I feel all frames should be powerful but yet unique thematically, and not by their numbers. Which is why I find arguments for nerfing Wukong just to get people to stop using him to be very selfish. Regardless of his power, there people who play Wukong because they like the theme and mythos behind him. To making him bad just for the sake of being him bad just feels like a negative all around. Especially in a game where everyone is suppose to be over the top powerful.

 

Though probably my biggest for not wanting Wukong nerfed is because it will only lead players to target some other Warframe they dislike instead of him. In my case, I feel it will be Zephyr, another jack of all trades Warframe. I strongly believe if Wukong is nerfed to the ground Zephyr will take his place. I already feel Zephyr is much stronger than Wukong, unlike him, her abilities feel complete. I am fully aware this is controversial, but really all the complaints that are on Wukong can be applied to her too, if not worse. She is much faster than Wukong, and this comes from my experince as a Zephyr player. She is impossible to kill, especially in the air. Lastly her tornadoes have much more destructive power than Wukong's twin with a Zarr, more so do to her passive crit buff.  They can also be in more places, as oppose to the twin. She is basically a Wukong with much more offensive power, CC and mobility. 

 

Well that is it, remember this is just my opinion so feel free to yell at me and call me dummy.

TL;DR:

- He's the jack of all trades, master of none, hence his usage

- Outside of his clone he does not really do anything to standout, even in missions

- If changes are made to him, it should be to make him feel more unique, not worse

- Nerfing Wukong would make players use Zephyr instead and get her nerfed

[(PSN)MYKK678]

So you wanted to stop Wukong from being nerfed by highlighting how much stronger Zephyr is and get her nerfed instead. Got it.

[-Vahagn-]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

So you wanted to stop Wukong from being nerfed by highlighting how much stronger Zephyr is and get her nerfed instead. Got it.

Well this assumes Wukong is going to get nerfed to begin with, which may not be the case.

Also Zephyr's usage is too low to get her nerfed, despite what I said. They tend to leave strong Warframes along if they are not used much.

My point is that it will not fix the issue, if they nerf Zephyr it will just lead to some other Warframe nerfed, and so on.

 

Perhaps think of it the other way around, I do not want Wukong nerfed because I do not want Zephyr nerfed.

[trst]

Personally the only thing want to see nerfed about him is the ability to afk through any static mission.

Just doing something like nerf his clone's hp/shields and making him and his clone share a health/shield pool. It would solve most of the afk player issue while having virtually no impact on people actively playing him. As losing hp through the clone doesn't matter when you actually use his heal and armor buff but does hurt people using him to afk.

[sitfesz]

People afk without wukong as well. As long as we don't have a report afk button, a wukong nerf won't help anything.

[-Vahagn-]

4 minutes ago, trst said:

Just doing something like nerf his clone's hp/shields and making him and his clone share a health/shield pool.

That is reasonable and fair, though should the clone receive health/shield buffs from outside sources as well? Such Trinity's Blessing and shield boosts from Hildryn?

[Quest]

5 minutes ago, sitfesz said:

People afk without wukong as well. As long as we don't have a report afk button, a wukong nerf won't help anything.

True

imo his 1 and 2 are awesome and his 3 and 4 are useless. I'm guessing I just don't know how to use them

[trst]

26 minutes ago, sitfesz said:

People afk without wukong as well. As long as we don't have a report afk button, a wukong nerf won't help anything.

But a kit that enables it is problematic. And similar enough reasons are why Banshee was changed very long ago and part of the reason Ember got a rework.

Also you can report players for being afk at the support page, there is a category for it and everything. The problem with that is we don't know if DE actually acts on those reports.

25 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

That is reasonable and fair, though should the clone receive health/shield buffs from outside sources as well? Such Trinity's Blessing and shield boosts from Hildryn?

If it's shared then it'd all be the same as his own health pool. So under that logic, yes.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Would you say that Wukong be... tossing, enforcing, with a style that is awesome, that he be causing more Family Feud's than Grandmother,  Lotus, or-Son?

And the survey said -- ya dead, Fatal Flying Cloud chops off Grineer and Corpus head. Mesa who was that? Aiyyo, the Wu is back Making Tenno go BO BO!, like on Super Kavat.

Me fear no-one, oh no, here come The Wukong Nerf shogun, killer to the eardrum!

And if you want beef, then bring Rhino and Hildryn, Wukong Clan ain't nothing to nerf with

Straight from the meta breaking slums that's busted, Wukong Clan ain't nothing to nerf with.

Also Zephyr is great! 

[LillyRaccune]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

<Rap rap rap>

That was awesome!!

+1 Voted Best Answer.

[LillyRaccune]

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

So you wanted to stop Wukong from being nerfed by highlighting how much stronger Zephyr is and get her nerfed instead. Got it.

Someone already tried that. lol

 

[Berzerkules]

57 minutes ago, QuestWasTaken said:

True

imo his 1 and 2 are awesome and his 3 and 4 are useless. I'm guessing I just don't know how to use them

His 3 is another invulnerability period that also cleanses status effects and adds up to 1500 armor, it's a decent ability. His 4 is trash since it's impact weighted, you can't equip blood rush/weeping wounds and gladiator mod set bonus does not work either. 

[(PSN)max141064]

2 hours ago, WH1735S0W said:

To start Wukong's high usage in the stats is more so due to his usage as a jack of all trades Warframe.

People use it because they can AFK the whole game with the twin.

[shut]

If AFK farming is the biggest issue with wukong, then I think that the clone should be subject to a much stricter AFK timer.

Like, if the player doesn't do anything for more than 5 seconds (e.g. idling as Wukong or Operator, walking continuously in one direction without any other inputs, etc.) then the clone simply should not attack. Once the player makes actual inputs, the clone starts to participate again. Same goes for Umbra.

 

As OP as Wukong is (i.e. as justified as some kind of nerf would be), it feels wrong to change his kit specifically to add some anti-synergy with AFKing. DE can address the root of that issue by directly removing the incentive to AFK, which gives them the freedom to change (or leave alone) his kit independently.

[Berzerkules]

Are people really worried about afk farm still? Didn't DE change enemy ai to switch to unalerted exterminate ai or something if player was afk like forever ago. They changed it before acolytes when people were afk farming eximus for SE with Khora. Is is still possible to afk farm anymore? 

About the only place I see people afk leech is SO/ESO and most of the time they are on Inaros and they are just ranking weapons. 

If I'm wrong lmk. 

[ReddyDisco]

If its just the stats ur worried about then nukor is bound to get another nerf lol

I don't believe Wukong will get nerfed, its just the meta atm and it will change. Wukong is just your low effort high reward frame, as most players choose path of least resistance akin to some sort of living electricity like electro from spiderman. 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

They already nuked him when they made stick prime virtually useless. 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

52 minutes ago, shut said:

If AFK farming is the biggest issue with wukong, then I think that the clone should be subject to a much stricter AFK timer.

 

As a Wukong main who Doesn't do afk exploits

(which btw, are a myth, just visit Steel Path and try it, clone will be dead in 20secs if you aren't actively killing)

I am totally fine with a shorter inactivity timer on clone

because it will have absolutely no effect on me

 

Clone will still retain its True Value as an elemental primer for a CO build.  (give the Clone a high SC rainbow rifle, while you run around with a CO melee to mop up after him)

 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Why does Wukong need nerfing again?

#1 has scaling problems and gets pretty weak in Steel Path

#2 is good as a panic button for quick invulnerable/escape, and while I can see the high mobility on top as being pretty powerful; Wisp, Volt, Etc can do that kinda thing too

#3 is a good healthy armor boost/status cleanse, but considering its also his Helminth Subsume and ANY Warframe can equip it, I don't see it as a problem

#4 is just useless

 

the only thing here that really stands out to me as potentially overused is #2, because its just so easy to trivialize sticky situations; but that's mainly Defensive, not like a map nuke, so its it a real problem? is it any worse than what people do with Shield Gating Builds?

 

far from being Overpowered, Wukong has a lot of Shortcomings when it comes to team play. He can't really kill/nuke very fast, he doesn't buff the squad, and he's absolutely terrible at defending objectives.

-is that whey people hate him? because he contributes nothing to a squad? maybe if you want him to help out more, you should ask for some Buffs instead of Nerfs.

maybe something like? Defy applies an armor aura to allies within range? Allies touched while in Cloud Walk are cleansed of status effects? Clone AI is improved so it will prioritize reviving allies?

[(PSN)Jacobivan]

1 hour ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

is that whey people hate him? because he contributes nothing to a squad? 

Nah. People hate him (i know i do) when equipped with Bubonico/Bramma/Zarr/napalm Ogris etc. Clone fills the map with huge explosions (usually VERY bright colours) making me unable to see anything at all and quickly triggering headache. I never stay more than one rotation with that kind of Wuclone. 

[-Vahagn-]

2 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

People use it because they can AFK the whole game with the twin.

Even though AFKing as Wukong in higher levels will get you killed. The twin has its limits.

Unless you tell me Wukongs never go to Steel Path. Also I am pretty sure DE added anti-afk systems in response to this a while ago.

[(PSN)max141064]

1 minute ago, WH1735S0W said:

Even though AFKing as Wukong in higher levels will get you killed. Even the twin has its limits.

 

Unless you tell me Wukongs never go to Steel Path which is not true as I see them all the time.

Wukong is easily moddable to stay AFK even in SP, no problem. 

[-Vahagn-]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Wukong is easily moddable to stay AFK even in SP, no problem. 

See, I can do it too.

_{Ty for the gif}

 

Also I am not worried about Wukong's survivability, I am referring to his Twin.

[(PSN)max141064]

2 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

Also I am not worried about Wukong's survivability, I am referring to his Twin.

Me too. 

2 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

See, I can do it too.

_{Ty for the gif}

You weirdly got defensive over a gif. 

Are you sure you are not a main wukong that fears a nerf? 

[-Vahagn-]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

You weirdly got defensive over a gif. 

Nope I'm stealing the gif, its mine now.

_{You can't have it}

4 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Are you sure you are not a main wukong that fears a nerf? 

No I like birds

_{But who knows, maybe I'm the real Sun Wukong}