Angels of the Zariman: Dev Workshop PREVIEW

[Zyfra]

I would love for each school to have their own faction and role model. That choosing a school isn't just about the "goal" or "the best in the game." I would really love them to deepen the lore of the schools.

[(XBOX)Fenomeral]

Can we get a toggle option between old and new void dash?, I think that will disincentivize the use of the operator altogether, at least now we get extra mobility and (with the help of arcanes) crowd control. I do believe your intention is to bring utility to the operator in new ways but I don't see why we can't have both old and new stuff coexisting to bring a refreshing yet familiar experience

[Do_High_Go]

Void dash does not need to have Any telegraphing! One cannot tell me that making an ability that happens for 1 second, take 2 seconds to set up and 1 second to happen at a shorter distance is a "sidegrade". I am not a speedrunner or anything, but i know how to pilot the damn kid, and even the Drifter now, with dashes so i don't bonk in walls. As a mediocre player I do not think it takes years of training to master that. It is intuitive as it is, snappy and responsive.

What you are offering as a replacement.... will get people killed in mission, especially new players, and they will be the ones that will grow to hate it the most and stop using it. Why? Well because waiting for the "Dash" to happen is time you spend being a sitting duck. Tactical use? We do that already! S#&$ hits the fan? No problem, hop in kid, dash away, setup defense/heal/setup damage, and swoop back in with the frame. That is how me and i bet many others use Tenno currently. With that change, one gets surrounded? Well too bad gotta wait 2-3 seconds to get out of there with operator.

So what? You are going to rework Operator Schools and no one is going to use operators ( excluding the initial spike of use of people testing the changes) because the only form of movement operators had that matched the speed of a warframe, is gone. Do you know what that makes the operators? Cripples! compared to Warframe maneuverability. If i wanted to move slow and perform 3 second telegraphs of attacks, I would play Elden Ring. But we play Warframe! because of the FAST PACED ACTION! Telegraphing a basic movement capability is NOT fast paced.

So far the only people i saw defending the new Void Dash mechanic are either people who don't use Operators (and they admit it proudly), people that despise Eidolon hunters (not an eidolon hunter myself and i kind of see their points about Elitism, but this is not the way!), and people that plainly said with all due respect - suck at piloting operators. Do you see a pattern here? I do, i see the "Ignorant", the "Vengeful" and the "Incapable" all condensing their opinions due to lack of understanding and/or care about that system.  Those people's opinions cannot provide constructive feedback, because constructive feedback requires to have experienced, examined and understood the matter, and the only supporters have done none of that, or are biased by pure unadulterated Hatred!
 

It looks pretty not gonna lie, but it WILL break the Flow of Combat that you try to emphasize with the instant melee addition from operator to frame. The Instant Melee simply does Not compensate for the time lost in "Telegraphing". As shown, it is no longer a "Dash" it is more like "Short Range Teleport With Windup" - oh look saying that takes the same time it takes to actually happen. Sorry, but I, in my human atrophied gamer body, can cover the distance of that teleport before it happens and punch the child on the other side..... I don't want to imagine what amounts of damage it will sustain from actual enemies ingame.

DE Please, you created abilities like Wukong's Cloud Walker, Revenant's Reave and even Ivara's Navigator, surely you can come up with a more intuitive and responsive movement alternative to Void Dash than THAT!

[wirecard]

Dear DE,

With all the people already not liking the void dash changes and staff failing to execute properly LIVE on stream, please consider making it optional. Either via Focus School, or just came to my mind: Since we got a Spoiler Character during TNW Quest, how about giving this said Spoiler Character the new Void Dash, and keep the old dash on the Operator. This would allow to not touch other Mainline-Quests related to Operator movement, while it also introduces a new character with a new mechanic.

[(PSN)darrelleaf]

Eidolon Players are hearty az, they will still be one shotting eidolon limbs and all that good stuff

[mikakor]

2 hours ago, (PSN)darrelleaf said:

Eidolon Players are hearty az, they will still be one shotting eidolon limbs and all that good stuff

that ain't the main problem, pal...

[Lutesque]

20 hours ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

even if they slow it all to a crawl

we still have volt, gauss, wisp, titania and wukong

And Archwings 👍 !!!

8 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

snip

This Is Not Constructive 😐....

 

[blue_green]

I want Unairu's new ability is "Transferenceable in knockdown and stagger" such as New war trailer.

https://youtu.be/Tua7aK6Y7NY?t=88

This effect completely fit to "They pushed themselves to Outlast the Enemy, to withstand all aggression without retreat." policy.
(Primed) Sure Footed and Cautious Shot is still effect in continuing warframe only battles or other focuses.
If seamless switching battle is the focus in the future, I hope it will be implemented.

[Do_High_Go]

23 hours ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

even if they slow it all to a crawl

we still have volt, gauss, wisp, titania and wukong

Wow that is some strong brand of Copium you got there.
What if, idk, I don't want to play with Volt/Gauss/Wisp/Titania/Revenant but still want to move fast, instead of awkwardly sitting in one place while my "telegraph" extends? What do then? Mod the warframe with movement mods?

What you are saying is going to only result in "Speed Elitism". Someone will enter a mission, there will be a Volt Gauss and Wukong, they will speedrun the mission, and the person with Rhino or Frost will do what? Slowly crawl trough empty tilesets and get scolded for being slow? Would YOU like that? Having no way to catch up to a squad that zooms forward? I bet you are going to get triggered, because there is only so much copium one can handle.

[GREF_TM]

All i hope for is that zenurik energy regen will remain a thing in one form or another. I have a set of energize, but it'd still suck if it'll become 100% mandatory, and energy recovery will become effectively RNG-based aside from a select few frames that have energy on demand (trinity, harrow, etc.).

Energy leech change is lowkey one of the best changes here, if only they also addressed disruptors too.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

1 hour ago, GREF_TM said:

All i hope for is that zenurik energy regen will remain a thing in one form or another. I have a set of energize, but it'd still suck if it'll become 100% mandatory, and energy recovery will become effectively RNG-based aside from a select few frames that have energy on demand (trinity, harrow, etc.).

Energy leech change is lowkey one of the best changes here, if only they also addressed disruptors too.

I'm surprised none of the status procs generate energy. DE knows the utility players value from the most used Focus schools and Helminth powers.

Namely, energy generation and grouping.

Cold: 25% to 70% slow. 70% chance to drop small energy orb on proc; can only occur once every 3 seconds. Above 4 stacks, small energy orb is replaced with big energy orb.

Magnetic: +100% to +325% damage to Shields and pulls nearby enemies to afflicted target within 4.5 to 9m.

Ideally, weapons, powers and focus schools should be interchangable in role.

Have Zenurik for energy, Viral for damage.

Or, have Madurai for damage and Cold for energy.

 

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

12 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

Wow that is some strong brand of Copium you got there.
What if, idk, I don't want to play with Volt/Gauss/Wisp/Titania/Revenant but still want to move fast, instead of awkwardly sitting in one place while my "telegraph" extends? What do then? Mod the warframe with movement mods?

What you are saying is going to only result in "Speed Elitism". Someone will enter a mission, there will be a Volt Gauss and Wukong, they will speedrun the mission, and the person with Rhino or Frost will do what? Slowly crawl trough empty tilesets and get scolded for being slow? Would YOU like that? Having no way to catch up to a squad that zooms forward? I bet you are going to get triggered, because there is only so much copium one can handle.

i dont like the void dash change

i dont like the void blast removal

but i cant do anything but poke at sand with a stick 

it all sucks

-you can move faster than unskilled players with any warframe by using the bullet jump/aim glide, who even walks?-

[----Legacy----]

12 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

Wow that is some strong brand of Copium you got there.
What if, idk, I don't want to play with Volt/Gauss/Wisp/Titania/Revenant but still want to move fast, instead of awkwardly sitting in one place while my "telegraph" extends? What do then? Mod the warframe with movement mods?

What you are saying is going to only result in "Speed Elitism". Someone will enter a mission, there will be a Volt Gauss and Wukong, they will speedrun the mission, and the person with Rhino or Frost will do what? Slowly crawl trough empty tilesets and get scolded for being slow? Would YOU like that? Having no way to catch up to a squad that zooms forward? I bet you are going to get triggered, because there is only so much copium one can handle.

If only warframes had an easy to perform maneuver that moves them quickly in a straight line, could be spammed with little limitations to move all over the place, didn't need to waste energy and was faster than sprinting.

DE should give something like that to warframes and have it use crouch+jump -the same controls as the old void dash- so slower warframes had a way to keep up with "Speed Elitists". They could call it "slingjump" or something, idk.

[Leo21C]

New war spoiler in here

Spoiler

I hope that the drifter would be finally able to use this hairstyle in the angels of zariman update 

 

[Silescere]

Please also fix the overly greasy and cloudy looking operator hair, along with the colors for said hair. One black tone is now dark blue, the other dark green and another grey in classic and classic saturated (just as an example).

[Do_High_Go]

9 hours ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

9 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

If only warframes had an easy to perform maneuver that moves them quickly in a straight line, could be spammed with little limitations to move all over the place, didn't need to waste energy and was faster than sprinting.

DE should give something like that to warframes and have it use crouch+jump -the same controls as the old void dash- so slower warframes had a way to keep up with "Speed Elitists". They could call it "slingjump" or something, idk.

you can move faster than unskilled players with any warframe by using the bullet jump/aim glide, who even walks?-

From what i said you guys somehow assumed i meant not using bullet jump to move???? Are you serious? I was clear enough, and I do not think i had to exclusively point out use of Bullet jump! For the example i chose Rhino and Frost, not because of low sprint speed, but because they do not innately have movement oriented abilities (not that subsuming speed is not an option, but you sacrifice your build), could have been Gara, could have been Trinity etc., no difference.

Tell me how Bullet jumping can be as fast as a Volt built for speed, or any of the faster frames really, I'll wait. You know.... just because they are fast doesn't mean they cannot bullet jump too.

It's like saying "Well you can catch up to that Ferrari with your Golf 3, just put Nitro on it". You must understand that, bullet jumping and even modding for parkour and sprint speed along with it, can only get you only so far, at the expense of sacrificing the build of the frame and it's purpose. All that for what? moving along other frames that can have an actual build And still be faster than you?

My entire point that you conveniently missed is - With Void Dash being nerfed in range and now taking longer overall, one of the catch up movement tools, that are Independent of your Warframe, will be gone which Will widen the gap between people using frames with extra movement capabilities, and those who do not, and it will be unpleasant for both parties!

Either the slow person will be scolded and they will feel bad ( and essentially be bullied into using speed oriented frames by being constantly shamed), or the speed junkies will just have to sit idle and wait on extraction one extra minute, witch of course will agitate them. Both cases are an unpleasant experience, and yes they exist even now, but it Will be exaggerated even more in the future if the change to Void Dash goes trough in the form that was shown.

 

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

26 minutes ago, Do_High_Go said:

From what i said you guys somehow assumed i meant not using bullet jump to move???? Are you serious? I was clear enough, and I do not think i had to exclusively point out use of Bullet jump! For the example i chose Rhino and Frost, not because of low sprint speed, but because they do not innately have movement oriented abilities (not that subsuming speed is not an option, but you sacrifice your build), could have been Gara, could have been Trinity etc., no difference.

Tell me how Bullet jumping can be as fast as a Volt built for speed, or any of the faster frames really, I'll wait. You know.... just because they are fast doesn't mean they cannot bullet jump too.

It's like saying "Well you can catch up to that Ferrari with your Golf 3, just put Nitro on it". You must understand that, bullet jumping and even modding for parkour and sprint speed along with it, can only get you only so far, at the expense of sacrificing the build of the frame and it's purpose. All that for what? moving along other frames that can have an actual build And still be faster than you?

My entire point that you conveniently missed is - With Void Dash being nerfed in range and now taking longer overall, one of the catch up movement tools, that are Independent of your Warframe, will be gone which Will widen the gap between people using frames with extra movement capabilities, and those who do not, and it will be unpleasant for both parties!

Either the slow person will be scolded and they will feel bad ( and essentially be bullied into using speed oriented frames by being constantly shamed), or the speed junkies will just have to sit idle and wait on extraction one extra minute, witch of course will agitate them. Both cases are an unpleasant experience, and yes they exist even now, but it Will be exaggerated even more in the future if the change to Void Dash goes trough in the form that was shown.

 

why are you so angry?

[mrEkli]

1 hour ago, Do_High_Go said:

Either the slow person will be scolded and they will feel bad ( and essentially be bullied into using speed oriented frames by being constantly shamed), or the speed junkies will just have to sit idle and wait on extraction one extra minute, witch of course will agitate them. Both cases are an unpleasant experience, and yes they exist even now, but it Will be exaggerated even more in the future if the change to Void Dash goes trough in the form that was shown.

 

Well at the end of the day, it doesn't matter of your kit. I'm usually the slow one because I'm looking for stuff before exiting. If people get mad, they could make a squad or play solo. It's how the game is. People speed running everything / everywhere is dragging down the game and promoting the unpleasant experience you're speaking of.

[Kokomala]

On 2022-03-17 at 2:22 PM, Do_High_Go said:

Void dash does not need to have Any telegraphing! One cannot tell me that making an ability that happens for 1 second, take 2 seconds to set up and 1 second to happen at a shorter distance is a "sidegrade". I am not a speedrunner or anything, but i know how to pilot the damn kid, and even the Drifter now, with dashes so i don't bonk in walls. As a mediocre player I do not think it takes years of training to master that. It is intuitive as it is, snappy and responsive.

What you are offering as a replacement.... will get people killed in mission, especially new players, and they will be the ones that will grow to hate it the most and stop using it. Why? Well because waiting for the "Dash" to happen is time you spend being a sitting duck. Tactical use? We do that already! S#&$ hits the fan? No problem, hop in kid, dash away, setup defense/heal/setup damage, and swoop back in with the frame. That is how me and i bet many others use Tenno currently. With that change, one gets surrounded? Well too bad gotta wait 2-3 seconds to get out of there with operator.

So what? You are going to rework Operator Schools and no one is going to use operators ( excluding the initial spike of use of people testing the changes) because the only form of movement operators had that matched the speed of a warframe, is gone. Do you know what that makes the operators? Cripples! compared to Warframe maneuverability. If i wanted to move slow and perform 3 second telegraphs of attacks, I would play Elden Ring. But we play Warframe! because of the FAST PACED ACTION! Telegraphing a basic movement capability is NOT fast paced.

There's no need to exaggerate what was shown on stream. Go to 1:05:20 and slow it down. Setup and travel time combined was approx. 1s, with roughly 0.25s setup, 0.75s travel; with Rebecca completing 2 dashes in slightly under 2s. Now obviously we don't know if Mind Sprint was working properly, nor do we know if anything else was affecting it or not, or what other focus related reworks/abilities may augment the speed/distance of void dash. Considering DE typically showcases things without any mods of augments, and the fact that the showcased void dash range appears to be roughly that of the current default one (12m), I'm leaning towards Mind Sprint either being completely reworked or not working properly in the demonstration, as Naramon school was also not unlocked.

Honestly, after slowing it down and replaying it a few times - it's actually not all that slower than what we have now, Looks roughly 30% slower (if that), but the momentum gain on exit may make up for this difference due to extra distance travelled. Hard to tell from the stream, but exit speed looked to be higher for longer dashes compared to shorter ones, which may have interesting results when chaining them together.

Obviously people are going to have to rebuild muscle memory, however the main question I'm now curious about with the new void dash - do we automatically dash when the range is maxed out?

• If yes, then this should be pretty easy to use.
• If no, then there is now an increased player skill element for those who want to maximize void dash in the shortest amount of time possible.

I'm also assuming you were sarcastic regarding people getting killed. You're immune for the entire time you are in void mode including void dash travel time. There's practically zero difference in switching into operator and void dashing to safety between the two versions. Between the two, you are probably looking at 0.5-1s increased time for 2-3 new void dashes, so technically you gained an increase in invulnerability time.

I'll reserve judgement regarding the ability range, due to unknowns regarding Waybounds and the possibility of Mind Sprint not working. Hopefully the workshop will come out sooner than later.

[WeeDao]

Le 11/03/2022 à 04:43, [DE]Megan a dit :

Beyond Gameplay:

We are adding a cosmetic Focus shop to spend your unused points in! Things like Landing Craft ornaments and more await students of their favorite Focus School. 

i hope there's some point sink for extra focus, like credits, or endo.

i dont wanna buy all the cosmetic day 1 then have nothing to do with focus points again plz.

[----Legacy----]

3 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

From what i said you guys somehow assumed i meant not using bullet jump to move???? Are you serious? I was clear enough, and I do not think i had to exclusively point out use of Bullet jump!

Your example used frames with movement abilities commonly used as a crutch to make a point, so yes, since bulletjump is available to everyone and can even be faster than these frames when used right.

4 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

Tell me how Bullet jumping can be as fast as a Volt built for speed, or any of the faster frames really, I'll wait. You know.... just because they are fast doesn't mean they cannot bullet jump too.

I guess it's safe to assume you don't know about bouncing on walls and cancelling animations without losing momentum, which can be used even on crammed spaces and isn't limited by energy usage nor a timer.

The only place i'd agree with your examples being faster is in open worlds (especially Gauss), but in there we have access to archwings anyways.

4 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

It's like saying "Well you can catch up to that Ferrari with your Golf 3, just put Nitro on it"

 Clearly a false equivalent since bullet jump is available for every single warframe, unlike nitro for cars.

4 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

You must understand that, bullet jumping and even modding for parkour and sprint speed along with it, can only get you only so far, at the expense of sacrificing the build of the frame and it's purpose. All that for what? moving along other frames that can have an actual build And still be faster than you?

Lmao, "building for mobility and sprint speed, sacrificing your (meta) build". That's really lame. Default bullet jump speed is usually enough to move faster than your "speed elite frames". You can be sure that players who move around bulletjumping don't even bother with increasing sprint speed since it's completely redundant.

Also, destroying your build? That's the biggest joke since mobilize -5 cap drain exilus mod- is the most you'd ever need to go even faster, anything else is just flavor so you're not destroying a build unless you're one of those players who can't play without prime sure footed.

4 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

My entire point that you conveniently missed is - With Void Dash being nerfed in range and now taking longer overall, one of the catch up movement tools, that are Independent of your Warframe, will be gone which Will widen the gap between people using frames with extra movement capabilities, and those who do not, and it will be unpleasant for both parties!

Bullet jump is independent of your warframe. May want to learn how to use it.

 

[DarkSkysz]

1 hour ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Bullet jump is independent of your warframe. May want to learn how to use it.

Bullet jump is not even close to void dash...at least for now before the nerf.

Also when someone says 'bullet jump is faster than volt'... we can already tell how experienced the player is. Lol.

Even in solo mode volt can bump into doors because they are too slow to open... now tell me when you can do that with bullet jump...ya never.

[Freyjah]

57 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

 

Bullet jump is independent of your warframe. May want to learn how to use it.

 

Please, tell me more how you can bullet jump with the Tenno. Oh wait, you cannot? 😄 You seem to have missed the point of the other guy's post entirely.

The only good way to consistently move fast with the Tenno was with the chained-forward traversal Void Dash. This change will remove the way it was (and is right now), and you have to wait for the projectile to land in order for your tenno to teleport to it. Yes, it will still be a "valid option" but the way it is redesigned makes it look and feel much slower than the instant dashes before. 

I just hope DE sees that not everyone likes it, and leaves an option to switch between the new and old method, though I am fairly certain that they won't.  If ya'll are so intended on defending the new way of traversal, print it ot on a paper and get married to it and hug it while you sleep. That won't change the fact that the new traversal method is worse than the current one. That won't change the fact that the new method will be implemented ANYWAYS, as well.

It will just make me (and possibly a big amount of other people, judging by this thread) to not use the tenno as a traversal method at all anymore. But hey, you got your Volts and Titanias and etc. for speed Warframe movement, who cares what the Tenno movements are, am I right?

P.S. Gonna be fun watching people fail getting across the area with the Golden Maw over and over and over again. 

[----Legacy----]

4 minutes ago, Freyjah said:

Please, tell me more how you can bullet jump with the Tenno. Oh wait, you cannot? 😄 You seem to have missed the point of the other guy's post entirely.

You missed mine entirely. All warframes can bulletjump in the same way which makes it a tool that doesn't depend of what warframe you have equipped. 

If people like you or the other guy refuse to learn how to use bulletjump and just want to stay enclosed crying over the void dash changes, that's entirely a you issue.

4 minutes ago, Freyjah said:

It will just make me (and possibly a big amount of other people, judging by this thread) to not use the tenno as a traversal method at all anymore.

I guess that's what DE wants to stop anyways. We got archwings for open worlds and warframes to be fast everywhere, yet chaining void dash is somehow faster than everything else, otherwise i'm sure people wouldn't be as salty over this change as they are.

[Freyjah]

2 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

You missed mine entirely. All warframes can bulletjump in the same way which makes it a tool that doesn't depend of what warframe you have equipped. 

If people like you or the other guy refuse to learn how to use bulletjump and just want to stay enclosed crying over the void dash changes, that's entirely a you issue.

Please, learn to read. I dunno if you are purposefully playing oblivious, but at this point you cannot be serious. 

Everyone can bullet jump with any Warframe, period. Except the Tennos, because *inhales* TENNOS ARE NOT WARFRAMES.

The Tenno's fastest and best way of movement was the curent traversal dashes. You cannot bullet jump with a Tenno. Do I have to spell it out? 

I will cry over the void dash changes, because I personally do not like the change, and I prefer the previous one. Am I not allowed to share my opinion on the forums?