Angels of the Zariman: Dev Workshop PREVIEW

[DarkSkysz]

On 2022-03-23 at 11:48 AM, Do_High_Go said:

It looks like it doesn't have any of the Properties of an Actual Bullet Jump, but it does.

Warframes can double jump in air. They should be able to bullet jump midair too, even facing down. Like Sangi.

Not just the animaton, but also speed boost and crownd control.

[Zeddypanda]

On 2022-03-11 at 10:43 AM, [DE]Megan said:

• Operator-to-Warframe flow is receiving improvements. 

Could this finally mean client side transference?

[Ifeanyi]

Suggestion: Please make zenurik energizing dash a waybound or give other schools a form of passive energy regen.
The major (and most times only) reason most people run zenurik is because of energizing dash, I think to a step to promote build diversity and actually encourage us to use other schools would be make this ability a waybound or perhaps give all other schools a similar means of energy regen.
Maybe naramon can generate energy from finishers, vazarin from healing allies, madurai from kills and unairu from damage taken.

[Gilational]

Definitely late to this discussion, but like many others. I have HUGE problems with the new void dash, but not because it's slow. While I do think it's important to not heavily reduce the speed of the people willing to really learn tile sets/movement to perfection, my main concern isn't speed.

What I'm concerned with is how much this hinders flow in using directional void dash in a quick instance. For one, I mainly use Vazarin, so my main operator usage is

Enter operator -> Back dash -> Forward dash -> Enter Warframe

This quick action would become an absolute slog, but even if Vazarin's healing dash is changed to not be "Dash through target", there's still big problems here. With the focus of updating operator combat, restricting void dash in this way heavily restricts movement as forward is the only direction you can go immediately. Instead of back dashing away from a crowd, you have to turn your camera to the direction you want to go, causing a stop and start in combat instead of a brief pause just for the dash. With the coptering -> bullet jumping change, it was great, as an extreme speed, momentum controlled technique became a high speed, camera controlled technique that, as a player learns to use more optimally, will inevitably have them branch out into dodge rolling, and aim gliding, causing directional buttons to heavily come into play. Here, the extreme speed, button directional technique is becoming a mediocre speed, camera controlled technique. It seems like one step forward, two steps back.

Now for what I think should be done. Here's what I see as the best option in my quickly made, not very refined opinion. I think tapping the jump button to dash should be an immediate, mid range dash that would take the same amount of energy as it would with a long press with that distance, with direction being two dimensional, based on directions being pressed. Long press would work exactly as shown, telling you where you'll end up, taking a second to get to max distance. Something I'm iffy on is momentum conservation. This is something that'd have to be tested, since it's really feel based, but I think the quick dash could halt all momentum afterwards to act more as a highly specific dodge. That may feel really awkward though, so I'm not sure. I also think, from the footage shown, the long dash could have a bit more momentum to it, to act more like a sling, but again, not sure about it.

The quick-dash should preserve the quick directional control, while still updating the dash to feel less clunky overall, but maintaining the option to use it for speed, just with a little change, and maybe the momentum mechanics can allow for players to branch out into other movement options to fully optimize their moveset. If this is ignored and passed through as is, I only see operator usage for movement being even more neglected by the majority of the player base than it already is.

[cute_moth.npc]

On 2022-03-22 at 10:16 PM, Lutesque said:

Yes you can and it looks like a bullet jump but it doesn't have any of the Properties of an Actual Bullet Jump... 🤔

What do you mean? Any time I do this to either lower altitude from aim gliding or jump from a ledge or an aim glide in order to land, I accelerate in the aim direction and have the defense boost like usual and if I aim into the ground to make a landing it will not be a hard landing. It seems to work perfectly fine? I use downwards bullet jumps frequently.

[(XBOX)JcAnfis]

May I ask if the operator schoolbrefund also include the cost of shards for unbinding the passive talents? 

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

Is it just me or would anyone else like to have these eximus visual effects available as ephemera? That would be cool, especially if we could get them for our companions too. They have mentioned improving the rewards for dealing with eximus units so that would be a great way to do it (either have it that the eximus unit has a chance to drop an ephemera blueprint for the type of eximus they were, a currency that can be traded for the eximus blueprints, or maybe both). 

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

Unairu feedback. I don’t think the self revive is ever going to work past maybe starchart, even with increased damage, due to the lack of survivability. The primed sure footed when transferring out is fine but If I run the mod I wouldn’t be compelled to use the operator at all since aoe decimates maps of enemies. I think the “lifting up the warframe” idea is what made focus fail twice, because here’s the thing. What make focus 1.0 bad? People only used the free invisibility. What makes our current focus system feel bad? There’s no reason to run anything other than free energy or extended combo after the xoris nerf. Operators in my eyes should be about working with the warframe, not about buffing them up to the point where you’d only run one school because it provides the best benifits. In my honest opinion, the main way DE could make operators a compelling mechanic to use is to allow them to command the warframe to cast abilities while they are out of their warframe, similarly to how railjack works where you can use the tactical menu to put an ability in an area. How would you make the players want to acquire new warframes then? Simple. Allow us to earn that resource they talked about in the dev stream of lua disruption and permanently make the frame able to become sentient using the new upgrade system they showed on the last dev stream. Then, allow said abilities to affect the operative while affecting the warframe. So sort of like wukong’s rework (there’s a reason he’s the most used frame of last year). If they were to focus on that, I think the rest can fall into place. Maybe have magnetic blast work similarly to banish where it affects enemies in a wide area, but make void blast a hold ability so we can use their melee back to frame idea in case a butcher comes near. The invisibility to Allies then could be implemented to be more rewarding, allowing scaling damage reduction to the frame and operative for the time spent in it as a timed buff. That along with having armor for both the frame and Tenno, void dash reducing armor along with enemy damage output (would instead make it a wave like ice wave), I’d say that would be more fitting. Can’t say much other then that though until the rework is shown off, but I figured I’d put some light on the subject and give out some ideas using the concepts they pushed out on stream. 

[Xenoxic]

Well I don't agree with these changes at all... yes some focus schools are used more than the others, with good reasons, the other schools weren't up to par... but then just improve or add upon instead of replacing the good parts would be better imo.
Dashing around at the speed we are able to now feels sooo amazing and is a big part of why people even Use operators in the First place. 
So please don't change the current void dashing and focus schools.... I would much rather have DE add new abilities to Focus than rip-out and replacing the entire thing...

This game was always focussed on making gameplay Smooth, Fast, Enjoyable and give players this Feeling of Powerfantasy. Taking this focus system out just kills another way of making the game fun for me.
And then I have not even talked about things like eidolons that will most likely die because of these changes.
Simulair to when they ripped out "helicopter dashing", "blink spamming with archwing" and even "old melee system" the new focus changes (even though not finalized) will most likely end up in the list of forgotten golden things in this game. 
Eidolons will most likely be affected most by changes right now... people are doing them only because of the "end game feeling" and since it was one of the only parts in this game that actually required learning mechanics making it 4x3,5x3 or even 6x3 in a night made it a sport for many. The new system looks slow and clunky and not worth using operators for anymore.

In general I hope that DE can prove me wrong and find a way were it can actually improve the experience of the game.
So please make it spam-able like it is now, smooth, and fast pased to use and not the slow stuff we've seen in the devstream cuss yikes that looks terrible...

#rip void dash #rip eidolon hunts #rip operators

[Unimira]

On 2022-03-11 at 11:17 PM, Pizzarugi said:

Not really digging these void dash changes. It feels slow and cumbersome. If I want to have a shorter dash, I can easily just look down at the floor or do a little jump and then dash down. Never would've crossed my mind to have a telegraph for it, because it's really not all that necessary.

I'd rather keep the old dash.

I agree.

I often use dash to skip useless rooms and for quick repositioning in the middle of combat, making it slower it will be a huge blow to how I play the game but taking DEs own words:

On 2022-03-11 at 5:43 AM, [DE]Megan said:

redoing it to better fit our combat is the goal

Not sure what combat DE is envisioning but I don't think it's unintended that they nerf the most useful part of void form. I haven't seen much about the focus tree changes either, if we're lucky there will be something useful coming and maybe ugrades make the spark dash not suck quite as much (even now the base dash is somewhat meh).

The Unairu example makes me worry though. You need to die to have any use for the talent, while not quite as mindboggling worthless as the Deimos arcanes it's not something I find useful.

[mikakor]

8 hours ago, Unimira said:

Not sure what combat DE is envisioning but I don't think it's unintended that they nerf the most useful part of void form.

DE "WANTS" their game to be a weird slow paced tactical thingy where you need to think. they are lost in delusions. 

what the game ACTUALLY is is a fast paced shooter where your mindlessly shoot and kill everything down wi8thout much thought, and without dragging it for 10 minutes. they need to understand this. 

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

2 hours ago, mikakor said:

DE "WANTS" their game to be a weird slow paced tactical thingy where you need to think. they are lost in delusions. 

what the game ACTUALLY is is a fast paced shooter where your mindlessly shoot and kill everything down wi8thout much thought, and without dragging it for 10 minutes. they need to understand this. 

Well that's the rub.

Many posters, youtubers, redditors, and the like have said.  "we want a harder game"

Ultra fast missions and mindless gameplay is the antithesis to harder content.

To be fair to them they are trying to give the community what it claims to want. 

The next big problem is it seems obvious people want a harder game but the powercreep is supposed to still factor in even though it's the reason the game is easy now. 

Honestly I don't see how that is possible. But kudos to DE if they can figure it out. 

[Lutesque]

On 2022-03-27 at 12:36 AM, Twin_Fawn said:

What do you mean? Any time I do this to either lower altitude from aim gliding or jump from a ledge or an aim glide in order to land, I accelerate in the aim direction and have the defense boost like usual and if I aim into the ground to make a landing it will not be a hard landing. It seems to work perfectly fine? I use downwards bullet jumps frequently.

I don't know what to tell ya....

This isn't how it works for me... 😥

 

[Ms_Salami]

On 2022-03-11 at 3:43 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Void Dash: this is now a telegraphed movement tool with more interdirectionality and p

Terrible change. This is a nerf, disguised as an improvement.

As for the rest, I am not sure why Focus is being reworked again, except to remove functionality. You don't actually tell us your vision beyond 'changing' and more obviously the 'cosmetic Focus shop'.

But just as previous workshops NOTHING will be listened to and I suspect no one asked for this.

[Azimbee]

I mean, I think current focus needs work. I’m glad it’s getting touched on. Current Void Dash does have an issue of getting stuck on level geometry or overshooting where you actually want to go.

 

I like the idea of Tap-Hold for Void Dash. Tap for the current snappy but unwieldy Void Dash, and Hold to have a cost efficient, lengthy, guided Dash. This seems like an optimal solution?

 

I’m very excited for Primed Sure Footed Unairu passive. Someone earlier suggested different schools having different ways to gain energy. Rage on Unairu is brilliant. A lot of frames that Tank, also run Rage. Freeing up that mod by running Unairu is smart, would love to see that. 

[LuckyCharm]

I really dont see the point in nerfing void dash tbh. It's one of the few skills that lets anyone keep up in fast paced missions regardless of what frame you use. Its a utility skill, if it must be nerfed, then nerf it by stopping it doing damage or something along those lines 

Void form, sure invulnerability is overpowered. I would however say in that case eidolons need a looking at with just how ridiculous their damage is to operators. 

Based on my operator play though i tend to use void form to recharge my amp, if its nerfed itd be a real nice idea to improve amp recharge 

[Lutesque]

40 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

I really dont see the point in nerfing void dash tbh. It's one of the few skills that lets anyone keep up in fast paced missions regardless of what frame you use. Its a utility skill, if it must be nerfed, then nerf it by stopping it doing damage or something along those lines

Because Void Dashes' Damage is OP ? 🤔

41 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

 

Void form, sure invulnerability is overpowered. I would however say in that case eidolons need a looking at with just how ridiculous their damage is to operators. 

It actually isn't.... Remember Wukong before his Rework.... Also Inaros right now....

All Survivability is just overrated in general.... There's absolutely nothing overpowered about not dying because there is no Content That Actually Rewards Not Dying....

 

[cute_moth.npc]

20 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Because Void Dashes' Damage is OP ? 🤔

It actually isn't.... Remember Wukong before his Rework.... Also Inaros right now....

All Survivability is just overrated in general.... There's absolutely nothing overpowered about not dying because there is no Content That Actually Rewards Not Dying....

 

They're busy turning almost half of a focus tree into Inaros right now in order to like.. Make it more attractive though? ^^;

Literally all the next tree over has to have in those slots is something like "crowd control, damage, mobility, energy, loot or kittens" and I'd be like: Give me the kittens. Yes, make kittens spawn when I strike enemies. Give me some other skills related to putting hats on the kittens and another one that lets the kittens backflip when you void dash.

It's not like a crazy rogue like where you're looking at the anti death passive going oh yeah this could totally save my run if I meet that minotaur again on level 30. It's more like oh yeah there's almost no dying in this game and when it happens you press x and go fwooosh back up and right back to playing.

[Mr.UXN]

Cancel waybound on focus system. it is the root cause that some schools not popular. We want to use all skills in schools that we have spent focus point.  

[DarkSkysz]

On 2022-03-26 at 5:57 AM, Ifeanyi said:

reason most people run zenurik is because of energizing dash

Energy Dash is just a small amount. The good stuff in zenurik is Energy Pulse. 3/sec for small orbs or 7/s from big orbs and they stack.

I rather have energy pulse waybound than dash...

[Theweedle]

Love a lot of these changes. Ive been begging for better warframe to operator transitions for a while now, and getting updated focus schools is amazing. Cant tell you how much I appreciate the changes to leech eximus, definitively needed this change, as before it basically made it so some frames felt completely unusable against infested. Getting your energy completely drained just because the leech was on the map didnt feel good. 

One thing I am a little bit apprehensive about is the changes to void dash. Although I definitively feel like it was unwieldy at times, I also think the proposed change doesnt really seem much better. It just seems like it will make operator feel slow. I absolutely love being able to essentially teleport across big tiles almost instantly, and now Im worried this process will become clunky and end up meaning I utilize void dash a lot less.

[(PSN)Toumay78]

Le 11/03/2022 à 22:16, -Mige- a dit :

Omg! Best update ever! I hate hunting anyways!

 

 

Le 11/03/2022 à 22:11, Dur_ a dit :

So...when are we removing Eidolons from the game? Cause at this point we might as well :D

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

On 2022-03-10 at 7:43 PM, [DE]Megan said:

 This replaces ‘Void Blast’. Any interactions that relied on Void Blast will be audited to ensure everything still works with other Void combat abilities!

 

 

 

 

Kuva Guardians, Siphons

as a user of Magus Lockdown - which has the side effect of making it so that Void Dashing no longer disarms guardians (they become animation locked before the dash can make them drop their stuff, thus retain it); I am Totally Reliant on Void Blast to disarm Kuva Guardians.

If Void Blast is going away, you're going to need to Fix the Void Dash + Magus Lockdown Glitch. Or provide some alternate way to deal with Kuva Guardians.

[emkpro]

On 2022-03-12 at 6:47 AM, PublikDomain said:

Just noticed that there was already a workshop so I'll leave my feedback here as well.

Void Dash is so useful because it's spammy. It's because it doesn't have "interdirectionality and pivoting potential" (whatever that means) that it's already able to so effectively traverse the game's tiles and combat spaces. It's simple, it's fast, it's effective, it's reliable, it always goes where you point it. Void Dash is one of the very few parts of the Operator that doesn't need any major changes. The preview shown in the Devstream does not look intuitive, fluid, or effective. Making the forward movement slower and adding additional inputs isn't going to make it faster or better, it's going to make it slower and clunkier.

Just make the same thing we've already spent years getting familiar with but you keep going as long as you hold the button or something.

No-no I think we need further control over our ability, Because the environment is so narrow. Like whenever we press void dash we should be able to enter a numeric range and velocity, that way I can land on wherever I want and vault over objects. Needless to say the game (Including other players) needs to be paused so player doing the dash can find the best range and angle to void dash. That being sad we are prone to mistakes so a TEST mode would be nice which would show our trajectory and destination, but not too many tests of course, I think max 3 tests is good. We don't want a slow game after all.  Piece.... 

[Loza03]

Everyone "They're going to Nerf Zenurik!!!!"

 

In reality, they've buffed Zenurik.