Limbo's big problem. (Limbo Sucks Now 2.0)

[AJAL8000]

Well a while ago I made a post talking about the obvious problem with Limbo being so unnecessarily nerfed.
And at the time it had only been 2 days since Zariman had come out. But now I have better arguments and some tests that you can do on your own to notice the problem.

The problem that I consider the most important is that Limbo self-sabotages when avoiding the Eximus. And so this is the dumbest thing of all, because when you dodge with Limbo, you enter the Rift, but when you enter the Rift and the Eximus are close by, you're pretty much already dead because YOU as Limbo CAN'T hurt them but THEY CAN. And this is ridiculous.

Many people who come to me say "yeah but it's probably because you're not very good with Limbo" Excuse me?! It is my most used Warframe in all the years that I have been playing with it. I know exactly how to use it and have even used it to hunt Hydrolysts in Solo. I think I'm in the best position to talk about this specific Warframe.

And well I think everyone can do a simple experiment to see the problem. If you place 3 level 110 Corrupted Eximus Heavy Gunners forward in the simulator and try to kill them with just Limbo, you will see that it is ridiculously difficult compared to other Warframes because you have to do a lot of jumping and maneuvering to be able to kill them without they do too much damage to you or you die in the process (because wow, obviously we have to add that in general there will always be many more enemies around and that the Eximus can even be difficult to find and that if we don't count that the Nullifiers exist)
On the other hand, if you go with a Warframe that turns invisible or can tank well, you can stand in front of them without doing anything with almost no problem. The difference between the ease of play with one than with others is abysmal and obviously now it is more noticeable because there will be more people playing with Wukong the next time we see the statistics.

To all this we have to add that Limbo does not have an ability that does damage in an area even. And well, it has Dimensional Torrent, but it needs specific conditions that are not very easy to meet for the mod to work.

And this is a pretty big disadvantage because for example, at least Khora has her whip and she can heal herself. Vauban has a mod that makes him able to kill enemies in an area that well, at least it helps him somewhat. But Limbo doesn't have anything extra to help it, it's like you go with Inaros but you can't tank in comparison.

SOLUTIONS:

• At least one very easy thing to do is simply keep the Eximus auras from crossing the Rift. Because it is certainly too much disadvantage for Limbo. And that alone should be enough. Eximus being able to move within the Rift could be annoying, but at least manageable.
• And the hard solutions are:

1.  Think of a better anti-CC mechanic other than directly being immune to all control abilities (this should apply to all Warframes that have CC in the game)
2.  Remove anti-CC because it's not the main meta gameplay in the first place. (They should be more concerned about the "AoE + Wukong Meta Like" that trivializes many things in the game) (And this is difficult because DE is very stubborn to change ideas)

I just hope that for TennoCon they have some solution for the CC crisis that the game is having.

Postscript:

• Obviously I'm focusing on Limbo here first, I'm forgetting that the other CC-based Warframes are having their issues as well.
• As of this writing I am taking only Steel Path Gameplay. Since "normal" mode is ridiculously easy and it's obviously very hard to notice any gameplay issues there, no matter what Warframes you're running. But a problem is a problem.
• You could argue that well "why don't you use another Warframe?". But that's the problem, aren't they supposed to ensure the diversity of the game instead of the game leading us to use the same strategy and the same equipment?

[gamingchair1121]

as a limbo main I agree. its very unfair that eximus can damage you across planes but you can't do anything to them. closest thing you can do is either fight them in the material (where you are vulnerable to basically everything) or bring them to the rift (where they can still use abilities). also a funny cheese method I like to use is use a heavy attack weapon like the destreza and stab them to death, breaks their overguard easily and the slash goes into their health as well. not to mention the destreza is Limbo's signature melee.

also another idea: overguard can be damaged across planes, once broken they can't use their abilities

[kgabor]

I can't even recall the last time i used Spambo beside Rescue missions.

I didn't even use the frame before the Eximus rework, after the Stasis nerf the frame became even more situational and annoying to use.

[Leqesai]

10 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

its very unfair that eximus can damage you across planes but you can't do anything to them

I mean.. to be completely fair here you can hurt eximus units with your powers while you're in the rift. 

I'm not saying I like being killed by eximus powers but you can certainly use subsumed powers to hurt them.

[gamingchair1121]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I mean.. to be completely fair here you can hurt eximus units with your powers while you're in the rift. 

I'm not saying I like being killed by eximus powers but you can certainly use subsumed powers to hurt them.

sure but some people don't have helminth

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, gamingchair1121 said:

sure but some people don't have helminth

[DarkSkysz]

Warframe abilities can bypass the rift, so its pretty fair that eximus abilities can also bypass it.

But if their melee hits / shots are doing the same, then it should be fixed.

[MqToasty]

So I keep seeing these "Oh noes!  Limbo is useless now!" posts that I decided to see for myself.  Here's my Limbo Prime soloing Steel Path Telesto, face-tanking the entire mission (no abilities used, and I did not even dash into the rift once).  And that one death?  That was Misery.  Again.  😅

Now, I'm not saying that the Eximus change did not make it more challenging to use Limbo.  It did.  But moreso, it made it much harder to be a bad Limbo, leeching off your team in safety.  Limbo used to be all about never getting hit.  Health and survivability be damned, for as long as you manage your energy and have rift awareness you will never die.  That is no longer the case.  Now you have to consider modding for at least some survivability because unless you have very good teammates, you will have to stick your head out and you will get hit a few times.  Learn to mod for Steel Path survivability, learn to use his amazing speed to your advantage, and he will still be a fine frame to use.

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, gamingchair1121 said:

its very unfair that eximus can damage you across planes

Right... So its completely fair that you can infuse abilities and use weapons with your Limbo that deal damage across planes but its not fair enemies doing the same?

 

[Leqesai]

22 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Right... So its completely fair that you can infuse abilities and use weapons with your Limbo that deal damage across planes but its not fair enemies doing the same?

 

What weapon can deal damage across the rift?

 

[gamingchair1121]

26 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Right... So its completely fair that you can infuse abilities and use weapons with your Limbo that deal damage across planes but its not fair enemies doing the same?

I meant without helminth

(@Leqesai) also mutalist quanta's alt fire does weak damage and zymos needs an enemy to be in the rift to even bypass the rift (although it is good given you even get the chance to set it up)

[Butterfly85]

Limbo still works, I just need to pay attention now and play a bit smarter.

I don't stay next to what I'm defending any more so I can pull enemy aggro and then just side step anything that can hit me.

[BiancaRoughfin]

7 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

What weapon can deal damage across the rift?

An example:

Spoiler

 

 

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

An example:

  Hide contents

 

 

I typically don't like youtube build videos but I've gotta say, there are numerous things about Limbo I learned from that video. Thanks for sharing!

[Big_Meaty_Claws]

I for one am happy that there is now less of a reason to play Limbo >:)

[NocheLuz]

I think what is broken isn't Limbo, but the Rift. Considering if you can survive an SP mission with Limbo without ability, basically means you can survive with any other frames, not just Limbo. What is broken is Rift, the ability that helps Limbo... well... be a Limbo. Take that away and you have no reason to play him. But considering Eximus cannot enter Rift, it should be like **Spoiler Mode** where you cannot enter Rift so you have no way to deal damage to enemies in Rift.

Also, I think Eximus's ability across Rift is cool but grenade across Rift is not...

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 3 heures, AJAL8000 a dit :

YOU as Limbo CAN'T hurt them but THEY CAN. And this is ridiculous.

I totally agree, this is a great problem.

And there are many other problems with Limbo since the Zariman update : the Operator is unable to make damage while inside Limbo's Cataclysm Bubble. One option to figth Eximus with Limbo is to CC others enemies to focus on the Eximus and use the Operator powers to CC the Eximus a bit (Zenurik speed down as an exemple) and try to get rid of the Overguard with your Amp. But, while inside the Bubble, the Operator does no damage at all (it's like the Operator is considered as outside the Rift, while inside the Bubble).

And another problem is that if you get rid of the Eximus Overguard inside the Rift with Stasis active, the Eximus will not be affected by the Active Stasis : you will have to decast Stasis and recast it again to be able to freeze the Eximus.

In my opinion, Limbo and Banshee (even though Silence is great against Eximus) are the frames that suffered the most from the Eximus rework.

[PsiWarp]

Hmm... can Overguarded enemies go into the Rift and you use Rift Torrent to help chew through their Overguard? Stasis should freeze their gunfire too.

The super problematic Eximuses against a Limbo are likely Venomous, Arson, Shock, and Blitz, whose abilities deal a good chunk of damage enough to down him quickly.

Makes me wanna request a way to quickly shift between planes aside from rolling TBH.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 2 heures, PsiWarp a dit :

can Overguarded enemies go into the Rift

Yes, you can put them into the Rift while their Overguard is active.

 

Il y a 2 heures, PsiWarp a dit :

Stasis should freeze their gunfire too.

Unfortunately it doesn't freezes their projectiles. And if they lose their Overguard, they will not be affected by the current Stasis : you will have to cast it again to freeze them or their projectiles.

[gamingchair1121]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Unfortunately it doesn't freezes their projectiles. And if they lose their Overguard, they will not be affected by the current Stasis : you will have to cast it again to freeze them or their projectiles.

stasis freezes their bullets even if they have their overguard up

[Leqesai]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Yes, you can put them into the Rift while their Overguard is active.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't freezes their projectiles. And if they lose their Overguard, they will not be affected by the current Stasis : you will have to cast it again to freeze them or their projectiles.

The stasis thing sounds like a bug

[AJAL8000]

It's obviously possible, but Exterminations even on steel path are super easy. The problem comes when you use Limbo as Limbo. (I mean, using the Rift in a large area to defend something for example.) And in missions like the new Zariman, Excavations and various Endless missions, the problem is usually noticed.

Also, more eximus appear as the mission progresses and I don't think you've stayed that long.

I'm not saying he's unplayable, I'm just saying he's in an unfair position.

hace 11 horas, MqToasty dijo:

So I keep seeing these "Oh noes!  Limbo is useless now!" posts that I decided to see for myself.  Here's my Limbo Prime soloing Steel Path Telesto, face-tanking the entire mission (no abilities used, and I did not even dash into the rift once).  And that one death?  That was Misery.  Again.  😅

[AegidiusF]

It never works for me. I've tried many times : I can put them on the Rift, I can go into the Rift to protect myself from their attacks (exception of their Eximus abilities), but I never could freeze their projectiles with Stasis : I got killed many times with Stasis active while inside the Cataclysm Bubble from Eximus fire (I use a Silence infused Limbo, to prevent Eximus from using their powers).

I will try again.

[AJAL8000]

hace 11 horas, BiancaRoughfin dijo:

An example:

  Ocultar contenido

 

 

Most of the time they show this kind of stuff it's pretty silly actually. I, who use Limbo, are you telling me that I am condemned to always use the same weapon and the same strategy to kill enemies? (and that is replacing a Limbo ability with a Helminth one, theoretically it can, but the Limbo skill set should be complete to use it, well, like a Limbo, applying the Rift and Defending things, this would only work well in Survivals).

Putting all that aside. Most weapons (if not almost all currently) are fixed so they don't go through the Rift (like the old Vitrica) because it's actually a bug that they go through the Rift, it's not something they added on purpose.
This is easily obviated when this mod exists. (https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_Strike?file=RiftStrikeMod.png)

So yeah, no interaction across the Rift is really intentional unless the feature says it's really intentional. Otherwise, it will most likely be fixed in the next Hot-Fixes. (Bugs with Limbo's Dimentional Rift? Naahhhh)

[JackHargreav]

I don't play Limbo but this just seems highly illogical and stupid.

And it can't be really explained as anything, other then ignorance from the developers.