Limbo's big problem. (Limbo Sucks Now 2.0)

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

17 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Hmm... can Overguarded enemies go into the Rift and you use Rift Torrent to help chew through their Overguard? Stasis should freeze their gunfire too.

The super problematic Eximuses against a Limbo are likely Venomous, Arson, Shock, and Blitz, whose abilities deal a good chunk of damage enough to down him quickly.

Makes me wanna request a way to quickly shift between planes aside from rolling TBH.

Well it's why I've always wanted Limbo and his allies to just be teleported to the Rift whenever you start damaging enemies that are in it when you're not. I feel that would fix his issues with teammates pretty easily.

Though the bigger problem overall is probably that Limbo only has a way to deal significant damage with an Augment. The guy has Vauban's problems he had years ago with only CC and nothing else. He should really get some survivability buffs and some actual ability damage now that he has plenty of counters. If they want to keep his whole "pop in and out" style then I would hope he gets something to help him when he's not in the Rift.

I wonder if he should be reworked ... again, honestly. I think he'd be way more interesting if he was just always in the Rift and would become vulnerable while casting. Having gameplay that asks Limbo to be outside of the Rift at all just doesn't make sense, it's why the Banish rework never made sense to me. Yet making it so you have to play smarter with him so you don't get shredded while casting could be way more engaging. He'd probably have to have more unique mechanics (like Cataclysm just having its Duration reduced when a Nullifier is near it), but that's usually how "alternate space" characters are designed in other games.

[MqToasty]

2 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

duh. any frame can do that. it's called "shieldgating abuse". (if anyone talk about nidus or inaros, i'll chop your fingers off)

How do you abuse shieldgating without casting abilities?  Shieldgating abuse is absolutely a way for Limbo to survive harder content, but I did not even have to resort to that.  No Brief Respite, no Augur mods, no Decaying Dragon Key, no specters.  I even brought a Vulpaphyla because I did not need any shield recharge from sentinels.

6 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

Well I don't think I have to mention again that exterminations are not exactly the type of missions where any Warframe has a major problems, again. xd

Try the new missions. (I guess I had to mention that before xd)

I mean, I know you can complete them, but obviously you have to take into account how much it can cost you, and obviously use the skills because that's what the issue is about.

Though of the missions that aren't new, I found Mobile Defense to be a bit more difficult. The exterminations are always the same and in Zariman it must be the easiest mission on that map.

Dude, you were the one who said Steel Path, and then Zariman.  I picked Exterminate because that is the mode that specifically plays to Limbo's weakness -- engaging enemies.  And all of the missions on Zariman are the same level: 150-155.  I'm starting tire of your moving target game, but fine, for one last time here's Zariman Mobile Defense for you.  Didn't even die this time because I just ran from the Acolyte.  Before you post a reply, please put in some effort yourself and come back with evidence backing your claim that Limbo is "oh so hard" to play now.

[sunderthefirmament]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

I wonder if he should be reworked

He absolutely should.  Griefing and lack of clarity aside, I think DE has realized that the rift mechanic is not great for the health of the game.  In general, I think they're moving away from these sweeping all-or-nothing type effects, which makes me wonder if stealth abilities will eventually get addressed.  DE doesn't seem to be fond of us being completely safe or effectively removing enemies from the equation.

[Kaichi16]

10 hours ago, MqToasty said:

How do you abuse shieldgating without casting abilities?  Shieldgating abuse is absolutely a way for Limbo to survive harder content, but I did not even have to resort to that.  No Brief Respite, no Augur mods, no Decaying Dragon Key, no specters.  I even brought a Vulpaphyla because I did not need any shield recharge from sentinels.

oh sorry, i wasn't paying attention. i thought you were talking about survival.

exterminate is even easier, you can to it even with operator only.

now take limbo to a survival node. any. then post how long you can stay again and tell us limbo doesn't have a problem.

[AJAL8000]

hace 9 horas, MqToasty dijo:

How do you abuse shieldgating without casting abilities?  Shieldgating abuse is absolutely a way for Limbo to survive harder content, but I did not even have to resort to that.  No Brief Respite, no Augur mods, no Decaying Dragon Key, no specters.  I even brought a Vulpaphyla because I did not need any shield recharge from sentinels.

Dude, you were the one who said Steel Path, and then Zariman.  I picked Exterminate because that is the mode that specifically plays to Limbo's weakness -- engaging enemies.  And all of the missions on Zariman are the same level: 150-155.  I'm starting tire of your moving target game, but fine, for one last time here's Zariman Mobile Defense for you.  Didn't even die this time because I just ran from the Acolyte.  Before you post a reply, please put in some effort yourself and come back with evidence backing your claim that Limbo is "oh so hard" to play now.

Mobile defense is not a new mission. And also, extermination is not the weakness of any Warframe.

hace 17 horas, AJAL8000 dijo:

Try the new missions.

Anyways, I think:

hace 15 horas, AJAL8000 dijo:

many people talk about the problem and almost never use Limbo in the first place,

Just playing a few games with Limbo doesn't really show much.

So that:

hace 15 horas, AJAL8000 dijo:

I should do something like a video to better demonstrate the point. I guess I'll try.

And I'll probably be uploading some graphs to demonstrate the problem. (At least with Limbo since the problem is a bit more global)

But it's going to take a while, I'll probably update this post a few at a time and then create a new one showing details.

I don't think showing just the end screen proves much anyway.

[pwnSacrifice]

Does Limbo have issues? Sure! I don't need to list them here but we all know that at the least, Limbo doesn't play well with others.

Are eximus being immune to rift actually limbo's issue? Absolutely not. Seriously. It's not like you are killing enemies with Limbo, so maybe, CC everything but the guy you're supposed to focus on and shoot them perhaps? CC works fine to give you the time to kill a dangerous mob. Also, every other frame in the game needs to do a similar about of dodging to avoid the abilities, Limbo is not some special snowflake because you dodge for rift. We have a ton of moves besides rolling which will, I assure you, move you out of the bad. 

Also I'd like to point out that nullifiers have been around a while now and whenever I play Limbo, I always find them to be far more problematic than some dude I need two shots to kill instead of one, and yet Limbo has done just fine with them around. Literally nothing about his efficacy has changed whatsoever. He isn't the strongest or best choice for current (read:Zariman) content however He is still one of the "safest" frames you can play. 

 

[Xan5131]

A Limbo, sabotaging him self for once.... Good. Frame should be deleted from the game. Alas, its ok if (((they))) sabotage everyone else though.

How about not using cataclysm + stasis. Ever.

How about playing a frame that has survivability?

How about trying Loki for defense?

 

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

13 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

He absolutely should.  Griefing and lack of clarity aside, I think DE has realized that the rift mechanic is not great for the health of the game.  In general, I think they're moving away from these sweeping all-or-nothing type effects, which makes me wonder if stealth abilities will eventually get addressed.  DE doesn't seem to be fond of us being completely safe or effectively removing enemies from the equation.

You could always just add enemy units that ignore Stealth after a short time, like the Hyekka or Kubrows. 

I'm honestly kind of surprised they don't. Like, the Manics turn invisible too, you're telling me they can't track us down when they use similar tech?

As for Limbo, I mostly wanted him to be more of a "cast at the right time" character, so I'd make him permanently in the Rift until he casts an ability. Casting pulls him out for a brief moment and leaves him vulnerable, but that's about it. You can drag enemies in but have a limit so you don't get out of control, Nullifier units are less effective against you so you can actually exist while they're around (looking at you Arbitrations) etc. I would think being pulled out of the Rift at all should be more of a punishment or vulnerability window then something that's incentivized on a squishy character due to Banish.

[pinkxblack]

Months goes by, its still an unfair situation to him, how come they dont realize it, or just dont care...

[Knuffolino]

So did I get this right: I started playing Warframe just a few weeks ago, got the Limbo blueprints from that Limbo Theorem Quest, started building him yesterday, expected him to help me with those "protect this or that or whatever" type of missions... and now I'm reading that it has been nerfed beyond recognizability just recently... that about correct?

[Venus-Venera]

Am 21.6.2022 um 06:35 schrieb AJAL8000:

Well a while ago I made a post talking about the obvious problem with Limbo being so unnecessarily nerfed.
And at the time it had only been 2 days since Zariman had come out. But now I have better arguments and some tests that you can do on your own to notice the problem.

The problem that I consider the most important is that Limbo self-sabotages when avoiding the Eximus. And so this is the dumbest thing of all, because when you dodge with Limbo, you enter the Rift, but when you enter the Rift and the Eximus are close by, you're pretty much already dead because YOU as Limbo CAN'T hurt them but THEY CAN. And this is ridiculous.

Many people who come to me say "yeah but it's probably because you're not very good with Limbo" Excuse me?! It is my most used Warframe in all the years that I have been playing with it. I know exactly how to use it and have even used it to hunt Hydrolysts in Solo. I think I'm in the best position to talk about this specific Warframe.

And well I think everyone can do a simple experiment to see the problem. If you place 3 level 110 Corrupted Eximus Heavy Gunners forward in the simulator and try to kill them with just Limbo, you will see that it is ridiculously difficult compared to other Warframes because you have to do a lot of jumping and maneuvering to be able to kill them without they do too much damage to you or you die in the process (because wow, obviously we have to add that in general there will always be many more enemies around and that the Eximus can even be difficult to find and that if we don't count that the Nullifiers exist)
On the other hand, if you go with a Warframe that turns invisible or can tank well, you can stand in front of them without doing anything with almost no problem. The difference between the ease of play with one than with others is abysmal and obviously now it is more noticeable because there will be more people playing with Wukong the next time we see the statistics.

To all this we have to add that Limbo does not have an ability that does damage in an area even. And well, it has Dimensional Torrent, but it needs specific conditions that are not very easy to meet for the mod to work.

And this is a pretty big disadvantage because for example, at least Khora has her whip and she can heal herself. Vauban has a mod that makes him able to kill enemies in an area that well, at least it helps him somewhat. But Limbo doesn't have anything extra to help it, it's like you go with Inaros but you can't tank in comparison.

SOLUTIONS:

• At least one very easy thing to do is simply keep the Eximus auras from crossing the Rift. Because it is certainly too much disadvantage for Limbo. And that alone should be enough. Eximus being able to move within the Rift could be annoying, but at least manageable.
• And the hard solutions are:

1.  Think of a better anti-CC mechanic other than directly being immune to all control abilities (this should apply to all Warframes that have CC in the game)
2.  Remove anti-CC because it's not the main meta gameplay in the first place. (They should be more concerned about the "AoE + Wukong Meta Like" that trivializes many things in the game) (And this is difficult because DE is very stubborn to change ideas)

I just hope that for TennoCon they have some solution for the CC crisis that the game is having.

Postscript:

• Obviously I'm focusing on Limbo here first, I'm forgetting that the other CC-based Warframes are having their issues as well.
• As of this writing I am taking only Steel Path Gameplay. Since "normal" mode is ridiculously easy and it's obviously very hard to notice any gameplay issues there, no matter what Warframes you're running. But a problem is a problem.
• You could argue that well "why don't you use another Warframe?". But that's the problem, aren't they supposed to ensure the diversity of the game instead of the game leading us to use the same strategy and the same equipment?

very important topic. but in my opinion it's not about limbo. but to all warframes with low armor or defense. and there are far too many of them. almost all fall over like mosquitoes on sp. and others because of eximus are insta dead even in normal missions!
I can solve many problems with aoe weapon and primed sure footed, but you only get that after 400 days of logins (really now?). and even that doesn't solve the problem because even on normal missions you eat way too much damage!

I like your suggestions. and they are more for beginners or players who don't play with top weapons and warframes. because otherwise you can throw away 90%+ items. but what do I have them for? I would love to try something new!

[MqToasty]

2 hours ago, Knuffolino said:

So did I get this right: I started playing Warframe just a few weeks ago, got the Limbo blueprints from that Limbo Theorem Quest, started building him yesterday, expected him to help me with those "protect this or that or whatever" type of missions... and now I'm reading that it has been nerfed beyond recognizability just recently... that about correct?

I wouldn't worry too much, because you'll need him for the Mastery Rank anyways.  I would just be wary of any older guides you find online, because the "forget about survivability, just never get hit" recommendation is no longer valid.  But be warned that Limbo has always been and still is a technical frame with a steep learning curve, so if you just need something to help with defense missions, then there are much easier choices (such as Frost or Gara).

[gamingchair1121]

4 hours ago, Knuffolino said:

So did I get this right: I started playing Warframe just a few weeks ago, got the Limbo blueprints from that Limbo Theorem Quest, started building him yesterday, expected him to help me with those "protect this or that or whatever" type of missions... and now I'm reading that it has been nerfed beyond recognizability just recently... that about correct?

he's still one of the best for missions like mobile defense and hes one of the frames that lets you complete steel path excavation, but the eximus pose such a huge threat to him to the point that there's a good chance you'll die if you don't know what youre doing, even if youre in the rift. 

[Azamagon]

Well, maybe he needs a change to become a "Rift Assassin", and a bit less of a cheesy "Rift Defender"?

For example:

• Passive is the same Rift-enterring effect via "rolling". However, when Limbo is in the Rift like this, hitting enemies in the real world with his weapons causes him to briefly pop out in the real plane (similar to Ivara's Prowl, but plane-hopping, instead of visbility-switching), allowing him to hurt them - but also exposing himself to counterattacks.
  • It could also allow you to hack consoles and interact with various things, but when doing so, it temporarily puts you in the real plane.
• Banish is now Rift Blast, which is similar, but with some pretty notable changes:
  • Casting it on allies does the same thing as the passive for Limbo: They are put into the Rift, and if they are attacking with regular weapons (or hacking, etc), they will also briefly pop out and hit enemies in the regular world.
  • Casting Rift Blast does NOT put enemies inside the Rift. Instead, it knocks them down and makes them far more susceptible to damage (like +100% damage taken or similar) and makes them able to be affected by Stasis.
    • This makes it a more useable Helminth skill too! You can still help Rescue targets and such like now, but it also has a reasonable, regular offensive use.
• Stasis no longer freezes enemies - they are just very heavily slowed (think as much as 90% slowdown or so, but probably less). The duration of Stasis could be increased to compensate for the loss of the hard CC.
  • Note that this gives a stronger useage out of Banish Rift Blast's knockdown effect, and makes it more important for you to deal with threats quickly once you attack them - even if they can't attack quickly, they CAN attack.
• Rift Surge could be completely revamped to a selfbuff, something to make him more tanky and damage-dealing due to now having to pop out in the real world far more, and with Stasis no longer freezing enemies in place. Something like this:
  • While Rift Surge is active, every second he spends inside the Rift, he gains increased weapon damage up to a cap, and some shields (into Overshields). If he goes out into the real realm, the Rift Surge bonuses deplete over time.
    • This means that, if on the run, you will blink in and out of the Rift by simply attacking. You'll then also be exposed to danger, but that's where the shield-restoration is meant to give you some leeway.
    • Alternatively, it also means that you can remain inside the Cataclysm bubble and gain the continuous buffs while ALSO being able to attack at the same time. Downside is that you are then unable to move around as much, since the bubble is static in placement (and shrinking over time, even). You also HAVE to deal with the enemies enterring, since they are no longer completely frozen by Stasis either.
• Cataclysm generally remains the same: Allies and enemies inside of it count as being inside the Rift, as normal. There's a few changes and notes though:
  • If allies are in the real world and hit enemies in the Cataclysm, they will temporarily be sent into the Rift realm, being able to damage them (but also allowing them to attack back). Basicly the reverse of being affected by Rift Blast and shooting real world enemies.
  • If Limbo is in the Rift via his passive, he can now shoot enemies in the Cataclysm without temporarily popping out into the real world. The enemies in the Cataclysm can of course retaliate (albeit slowly, if Stasis is active).
    • Same goes for allies affected by Rift Blast.
  • You and your allies STILL cannot attack enemies outside of the Cataclysm bubble.
    • Since you can't put them into the Rift in any other way (due to the changes to Banish Rift Blast and Rift Surge), this means it can be slightly dangerous to just hide in the bubble - You thus are more encouraged to go outside of the bubble and hunt enemies down before they can enter.

Overall, this removes a LOT of the cheesiness, makes him far more teamfriendly, the whole kit is likely to be used a lot more, and it gives him have a more aggressive and interactive gameplay.

With that said: What about Eximus units?

Very simple:

• They can't attack Limbo in the Rift, nor can they attack Rift Blasted allies with their regular attacks, if the Eximus are in the real world. They can still hit them across the Rift with their abilities though.
• You can affect them with all effects of Banish, except it won't knock them down.
• Stasis can affect Eximus units, but it only slows them down equivalent to being affected by 4x Cold procs (i.e. 40% slowdown, as they can be affected like that by normal Cold procs), wether that is used via Rift Blast or Cataclysm.
  • This does NOT stack with them ACTUALLY getting 4x Cold proc on them - their slowdown would be capped like that.
• They can be sent to the Rift via Cataclysm just like any other enemies. This gives Limbo the ability to SEPERATE them from the real dimension, which is the closest to CC you can do on them (aside from Cold procs / Stasis and certain ministuns).

Imo, this would be pretty fair, don't you think?

[sunderthefirmament]

22 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Imo, this would be pretty fair, don't you think?

I really like all of this... except for Cataclysm.  I would replace it with something completely different.  The gradually shrinking sphere of complexity just has too many bad associations at this point, and your suggestions, while otherwise solid, still leave Cataclysm as needlessly complicated.  Again, I like the rest.

 

As for what I would replace Cataclysm with, perhaps a freely targetable teleport with a brief invisibility period added to it?  It's thematically appropriate for a wizard/assassin who hops between dimensions, and would be well worth an "ult" spot.  I'm envisioning something faster than Ash or Loki's teleports here, to allow for fluid movement.  It could be dolled up with other buffs/effects as needed.  We'd lose the sheer WOW factor of ye olde Cataclysm (the slow casting time, the awesome casting animation, the massive AOE), but I would trade that for a Limbo that I can use without irritating my team... and one that doesn't crumple the second a nullifier makes its presence known.

[Azamagon]

30 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I really like all of this... except for Cataclysm.  I would replace it with something completely different.  The gradually shrinking sphere of complexity just has too many bad associations at this point, and your suggestions, while otherwise solid, still leave Cataclysm as needlessly complicated.  Again, I like the rest.

 

As for what I would replace Cataclysm with, perhaps a freely targetable teleport with a brief invisibility period added to it?  It's thematically appropriate for a wizard/assassin who hops between dimensions, and would be well worth an "ult" spot.  I'm envisioning something faster than Ash or Loki's teleports here, to allow for fluid movement.  It could be dolled up with other buffs/effects as needed.  We'd lose the sheer WOW factor of ye olde Cataclysm (the slow casting time, the awesome casting animation, the massive AOE), but I would trade that for a Limbo that I can use without irritating my team... and one that doesn't crumple the second a nullifier makes its presence known.

Well, I felt replacing Cataclysm would be TOO much of a change. You can still be a Rift Defender, just not as cheesy (no hard CC), but you are more durable (Rift Surge) and more offensively powerful (Rift Surge + Rift Blast)

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

I really feel like the eximus rework was a mistake. Yes, i get wanting to make eximus units a bigger deal but the cc immunity is show stopping for some warframes that didnt need a huge nerf while completely trivial for others. 

Frames like Wukong Inaros mesa for example dont really care. Aside from being marginally tankier theres no difference in gameplay.

 

But rip limbo. Rip revenant as well. Im a decent MR but i dont "main" that many frames so im not gonna pretend to be a gameplay expert on the ones i dont use much but it feels very unfair that squishier frames that rely on cc to stay alive effectively got a huge nerf while a lot of the tankier frames are (almost) unaffected.

[Skoomaseller]

I feel for you Limbo mains.

As one of the 3 Revenant mains, I #*!%ing hate Eximus units as well. Due to their CC immunity, they are not affected by Mesmer Skin's stun, therefore they can just keep shooting me, shredding through my Mesmer Skin stacks very quickly.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

8 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

I feel for you Limbo mains.

As one of the 3 Revenant mains, I #*!%ing hate Eximus units as well. Due to their CC immunity, they are not affected by Mesmer Skin's stun, therefore they can just keep shooting me, shredding through my Mesmer Skin stacks very quickly.

Then kill them, time your rolling guard or use Vaz dash.....I'm still doing long SP runs with revenant. 

[Skoomaseller]

25 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Then kill them, time your rolling guard or use Vaz dash.....I'm still doing long SP runs with revenant. 

I'm not asking for tips, I know how to deal with them, it is just frustrating and stupid.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2022-06-20 at 10:35 PM, AJAL8000 said:

Well a while ago I made a post talking about the obvious problem with Limbo being so unnecessarily nerfed.
And at the time it had only been 2 days since Zariman had come out. But now I have better arguments and some tests that you can do on your own to notice the problem.

The problem that I consider the most important is that Limbo self-sabotages when avoiding the Eximus. And so this is the dumbest thing of all, because when you dodge with Limbo, you enter the Rift, but when you enter the Rift and the Eximus are close by, you're pretty much already dead because YOU as Limbo CAN'T hurt them but THEY CAN. And this is ridiculous.

Many people who come to me say "yeah but it's probably because you're not very good with Limbo" Excuse me?! It is my most used Warframe in all the years that I have been playing with it. I know exactly how to use it and have even used it to hunt Hydrolysts in Solo. I think I'm in the best position to talk about this specific Warframe.

And well I think everyone can do a simple experiment to see the problem. If you place 3 level 110 Corrupted Eximus Heavy Gunners forward in the simulator and try to kill them with just Limbo, you will see that it is ridiculously difficult compared to other Warframes because you have to do a lot of jumping and maneuvering to be able to kill them without they do too much damage to you or you die in the process (because wow, obviously we have to add that in general there will always be many more enemies around and that the Eximus can even be difficult to find and that if we don't count that the Nullifiers exist)
On the other hand, if you go with a Warframe that turns invisible or can tank well, you can stand in front of them without doing anything with almost no problem. The difference between the ease of play with one than with others is abysmal and obviously now it is more noticeable because there will be more people playing with Wukong the next time we see the statistics.

To all this we have to add that Limbo does not have an ability that does damage in an area even. And well, it has Dimensional Torrent, but it needs specific conditions that are not very easy to meet for the mod to work.

And this is a pretty big disadvantage because for example, at least Khora has her whip and she can heal herself. Vauban has a mod that makes him able to kill enemies in an area that well, at least it helps him somewhat. But Limbo doesn't have anything extra to help it, it's like you go with Inaros but you can't tank in comparison.

SOLUTIONS:

• At least one very easy thing to do is simply keep the Eximus auras from crossing the Rift. Because it is certainly too much disadvantage for Limbo. And that alone should be enough. Eximus being able to move within the Rift could be annoying, but at least manageable.
• And the hard solutions are:

1.  Think of a better anti-CC mechanic other than directly being immune to all control abilities (this should apply to all Warframes that have CC in the game)
2.  Remove anti-CC because it's not the main meta gameplay in the first place. (They should be more concerned about the "AoE + Wukong Meta Like" that trivializes many things in the game) (And this is difficult because DE is very stubborn to change ideas)

I just hope that for TennoCon they have some solution for the CC crisis that the game is having.

Postscript:

• Obviously I'm focusing on Limbo here first, I'm forgetting that the other CC-based Warframes are having their issues as well.
• As of this writing I am taking only Steel Path Gameplay. Since "normal" mode is ridiculously easy and it's obviously very hard to notice any gameplay issues there, no matter what Warframes you're running. But a problem is a problem.
• You could argue that well "why don't you use another Warframe?". But that's the problem, aren't they supposed to ensure the diversity of the game instead of the game leading us to use the same strategy and the same equipment?

Well, I'm not a Limbo main but I decided to dive into Limbo play when people started complaining about cc frames getting wrecked by the new eximus. What I found during my level 180 testing, was that Limbo's advantage still stops eximus weapons and he just needs to avoid their powers while keeping distance. Is it tougher? Yes, as is every other frame. Is it as difficult as OP's post suggest? No, not at all. In fact, it's MUCH MORE FUN to play as Limbo than ever before! 

All of that said, Steel Path should not even be a discussion. It's supposed to be more challenging and your job is to find a way with whatever setup you choose to use. And, no, not every frame is supposed to be optimized for every situation. Doing so would actually DEFEAT diversity, not promote it. This is why you supplement your total arsenal with weapons and tools to help offset your frame's weaknesses. 

[Erubian_Warlord]

On 2022-06-22 at 5:06 AM, Kaichi16 said:

duh. any frame can do that. it's called "shieldgating abuse". (if anyone talk about nidus or inaros, i'll chop your fingers off)

we're talking here about how limbo's been nerfed over the years and how worse it became since overguard/new eximus were implemented.

 

okay, so, to be honest, i think limbo's idea is very good, but was veeery poorly implemented. limbo is still terrible in parties, unless you play in some very specific ways, trying your best to not "get in anyone's gameplay"

i only use him for rescue, BUT he's still playable in most missions. BUT. being playable doesn't mean being good. 

you can like any frame you want, that doesn't mean that frame is good, objectively speaking. (i'm an hydroid main and i aknowledge my main's flaws)

i really hope DE do something about limbo... if... they cared about old frames. 

as they dont, i'd suggest equipping primed sure footed and kuva brahma. enemies wont hit you through rift, if you kill them first lol

 

well, the rift mechanic is limbo himself so... enemies denying that, would be like enemies denying his existence. limbo is nothing without his rift mechanic. 

and, as this is a game, enemies should maybe have resistance, but not complete immunity + ability to ignore it.

(if it was a boss or something, it'd be okay i think... maybe.) 

i think that's also a problem with limbo's kit being so focused on ONE thing... like grendel, if he can't eat enemies, he his whole kit is useless...

i will talk of my shieldless formerly immortal main as the Eximus rework screwed with his identity too 
!. a direct damage 'cone of effect' attack hitting foes refunds some energy killing them grants mutation
2. muti target grouping CC foes within grant mutation on taking damage can be detonated with augment for some burst damage
3. single target CC or Buff depending on if linked to friend or foe foes are imobilized and have damage done to nidus passed to them while offering knockdown immunity costs 1 mutation stack (5 individual pips) to cast

4. AOE CC and friendly Buff offering health regen to allies while maggots harry foes maggoted enemies can be hit with 1 will give aditional mutation and burst the maggots doing further damage costs 3 stacks to cast
Passive. health regen and the ability to revive with out affinity cost or use of limited revive slots in exchange for 15 mutation stacks

Eximus CC immunity ignores larvae parasitic link and the maggots of ravenous that is half the kit of a 'Tanky' frame utterly ignored.

[Luciole77]

The eximus rework is by far the worst thing that DE has done and has surpassed the railjack rework....

Being optimistic about DE is getting harder and harder.....

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2022-06-22 at 6:56 AM, sunderthefirmament said:

He absolutely should.  Griefing and lack of clarity aside, I think DE has realized that the rift mechanic is not great for the health of the game.  In general, I think they're moving away from these sweeping all-or-nothing type effects, which makes me wonder if stealth abilities will eventually get addressed.  DE doesn't seem to be fond of us being completely safe or effectively removing enemies from the equation.

You might be right but im over here wondering how much thought actually went into the eximus change. 

DE has proven time and again that just because something hasnt been reworked in a long time doesnt mean it might not get reworked but, one one end of the spectrum you have frames like mesa, wukong, inaros, baruuk, etc that give next to zero S#&$s about the cc immunity but then you got squishy frames that rely on cc that arent even used that much that kinda got screwed  by this.

 

It *feels* like they overlooked how hard that affects certain frames.

And at least with how i play the game its kind of an eye roll like. Alright fine ehp > cc i guess cool.