Take a hit DE

[PrimalordialBob]

1 minute ago, Prexades said:

Actually I think the game is in a much better state, now that a trio of AoE weapons is not the go to choice for every situation.

*hint*: The weapons were not removed and are still very powerful but as of right now you have to be a bit more tactical about its usage.

Let's stop with the gaslighting please? DE nerfed them into the ground, and to make them even remotely viable you have to sacrifice an exilus, mod slot, helminth slot, and aura. If you have to throw four patches of ducktape on a weapon it's broken. It's just better to fix it.

And again, the game is not in a better state. Now you don't respect your time and shoot hoards one by one.

[PrimalordialBob]

Just now, BLI7Z said:

Sure buddy, keep on living in your fecal gases wonderland. 

Ah yes, more personal insults. This toxicity is what leads people to complain about the weapons people use in a gear-oriented, PVE game.

[PrimalordialBob]

5 minutes ago, MechNexus said:

Except, uh...

It does effect other people. That was the entire point of the nerf. These weapons were pretty effortlessly wiping out massive chunks of enemies back to back, and paired with Wukong it could be done literally hands free - leaving very little for anyone else to do. Wasn't very fun.

You don't relish in every single fodder enemy you kill, so please stop acting like it actually affects you.

As for Wukong's clone, just helped clearing out fodder faster. Again, blame DE for the repetitive playstyle, not the players finding a way around it

[PrimalordialBob]

Just now, BLI7Z said:

That wasn't personal. You would go running to your momma crying if I got personal. 

BTW, guess you gotta start "shooting enemies one by one" as you say. The most funny thing of all, is that you ACTUALLY believe what you are saying. I don't know if it more sad or pathetic, or funny, maybe a tie between all that?

Ah, so that wasn't you trying to be toxic. I guess your generally just toxic then?

Again, here you are calling me wrong without presenting any logical arguments. Why don't I have shoot enemies one by one then?

[cute_moth.npc]

For people who want to leave a negative review on Steam, which is okay, just remember to leave concise and relatively constructive feedback otherwise when Valve does a review bomb cleanup they will just delete your review.

[MechNexus]

2 minutes ago, PrimalordialBob said:

You don't relish in every single fodder enemy you kill, so please stop acting like it affects you.

As for Wukong's clone, just helped clearing out fodder faster. Again, blame DE for the repetitive playstyle, not the players finding a way around it

It does effect me, and I do enjoy the challenge of overcoming the enemies put against me rather than just sweeping them away like they're nothing. If I wanted that i'd launch Garry's Mod and line up a bunch of NPCs to mow down.

I play Warframe because I enjoy it's gameplay, and I want the stuff I grind for to feel earned, and Warframe is meeting that need. What I don't want is an effortless conveyor belt from loot drop to loot drop.

Besides, if you think DE isn't respecting your time with the current update hoo boy you've got no idea how good you've got it. I remember when bosses had a chance to straight up drop nothing.

[Arthegall]

Is this serious? Imagine thinking review bombing was a true sign of what a community thinks. Truly idiotic, a true show of the best of our community. It’s hard to follow what the whining is even about, it mostly reads as someone that doesn’t know how to play the game or any game. Thinking the AOE nerfs went to far, baffles me.

[Ethorin]

40 minutes ago, PrimalordialBob said:

Let's stop with the gaslighting please? DE nerfed them into the ground, and to make them even remotely viable you have to sacrifice an exilus, mod slot, helminth slot, and aura. If you have to throw four patches of ducktape on a weapon it's broken. It's just better to fix it.

If you are seriously having that much trouble I suppose you will need to do that... ORRRRRRRRR... you could adapt your play and use AoE for what AoE is good at, killing lots of enemies at the same time, instead of using AoE for that AND for killing that one straggler lancer, and for smacking walls. If you kill five enemies at once you should always be getting at least one ammo back even in the worst possible case.

[PrimalordialBob]

40 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

I won´t do the brain work you have to do by looking at the arsenal the game has. I know it is hard for you to analize all the tools that are there, because you can only think... "oh no my bramma, my zarr, give me back my drug or I will uninstall and cry more".

Refuses to debate yet keeps calling me an idiot. Ok then.

 

[PrimalordialBob]

Just now, BLI7Z said:

And you are refusing to go search for yourself. You clearly want to stay being deluded by your own false pretenses. 

Ok, so how are they false. Please enlighten me on how I should kill hoards with single target weapons like I did with AOE. Please enlighten me on how I can be as efficient with a single target weapon as I was with a AOE weapon. 

If you wish to continue calling me an idiot without explaining how I am, then ok. You are free to have an opinion, but I am free to not engage with it.

[MechNexus]

6 minutes ago, PrimalordialBob said:

Ok, so how are they false. Please enlighten me on how I should kill hoards with single target weapons like I did with AOE. Please enlighten me on how I can be as efficient with a single target weapon as I was with a AOE weapon. 

If you wish to continue calling me an idiot without explaining how I am, then ok. You are free to have an opinion, but I am free to not engage with it.

Some possible solutions, mix and match if needed:

• Keep using AoE weapons as before, but pick your targets carefully to make sure the maximum amount of targets are caught in the blast to get the most out of your ammo supplies and increase the chances of getting a shot back.
• Use Warframe abilities that bunch enemies up together like Zephyr's airburst or Khora's Ensnare - these are subsumable.
• Use Warframe abilities that reroll enemy drops or generate ammo outright - Atlas' Petrify has an augment to do this, and Protea's Dispensary drops ammo - and both skills are subsumable as well.
• Make use of Ammo Mutation or Ammo Drum, as the Exilus slot doesn't have any damage mods on offer, so you're not really losing out by taking it - Kuva and Tenet weapons have more than enough mod capacity for this.
• Bring carrier, as they've got ammo mutation and an ammo cap increase.
• Use your secondary more - weapon switch speed is nigh instantaneous now.

You can keep using AoE as before, You've just got to think about it a bit more rather than firing blindly, or adjust your build to keep up with the spam. For the sake of argument, if you MUST use single target - the Phenmor is pretty hot right now, and punchthrough can help mow through crowds. Marked for death can even spread single target damage to entire groups, assuming i'm understanding the skill right.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 hour ago, MechNexus said:

Except, uh...

It does effect other people. That was the entire point of the nerf. These weapons were pretty effortlessly wiping out massive chunks of enemies back to back, and paired with Wukong it could be done literally hands free - leaving very little for anyone else to do. Wasn't very fun.

Seriously, I hated the AoE meta and I'm glad it's going the way of the dodo. I would actually love being able to see enemies on my screen for more than a second and be able to see in general with some of the ludicrous AoE particle effects. There's a reason DE changed the meta, and it's because they (and most players) hate not being able to do anything in a mission. It's not fun or engaging, and I have no idea why nerfing player efficiency to buff player retention is somehow a bad move. They've done this repeatedly in the past with Mesa, Ash, Saryn, the melee slide meta, the beam meta and now the explosive meta. Why is everyone acting like this is any different?

I also keep hearing complaint after complaint about these changes, and no actual evidence to back up the issue. You can check the steam charts alone and see an increase after the update, not a decrease, so who's leaving because of this? What actual proof are you bringing to the table? I've seen plenty of players in Reddit and here post solutions to it, like Ammo Mutation, Carrier or even higher-level stuff like Energized Munitions or Dispensary. I've personally run out of ammo a few times on my weapons of choice, and just went to melee things for two seconds and got it all back. For the ammo hungry guns I used Vigilante Armaments or Mutations, and didn't have any trouble really. I was just actually capable of running out of ammo for once. There were actual guns which did have issues, like battery guns or some of the weaker bullet hoses, and ... that's about it. Yet everyone keeps jumping on these tiny issues like they're really a deal breaker. I have every gun in the game, and let me tell you, unless the gun just sucks in general it has very few issues with ammo. 

Honestly this whole thing is overblown, and no, I don't want AoE unnerfed. I LIKE being able to play with 90% of my Arsenal. A game needs a healthy amount of buffs and nerfs to function properly, despite the naysayers believing you can just fix all problems by increasing the ceiling instead of fixing the groundwork. That's not how you balance things, and you know it, but you just don't want to hear it. DE barely changed anything, they tweaked ammo drops and the total ammo a lot of guns have and it barely did anything to your total uptime. It just made it so you eventually stop firing if you spam it willy nilly, like what most games do.

I can't believe we're even having a decent chunk of the community act like children over this. Why don't we actually try out the changes for a bit before attacking everyone around us like mad dogs? It hasn't even been a month! Yet I bet you, dollars to donuts, all this criticism will mysteriously disappear after a short time.

I wonder why.

[Jarriaga]

13 hours ago, MechNexus said:

Except, uh...

It does effect other people. That was the entire point of the nerf. These weapons were pretty effortlessly wiping out massive chunks of enemies back to back, and paired with Wukong it could be done literally hands free - leaving very little for anyone else to do. Wasn't very fun.

That is the reality. The number of threads from people indicating AoE was out of control and needed a nerf ever since self-damage was removed in 2020 speaks for itself. Pretending this was a decision DE came with out of the blue ignoring dozens if not hundreds of player threads in favor of AoE nerfs ever since is nothing short of dictionary gaslighting.

However, that's not an argument he or people who think like him will accept. They will resort back to pointing out it's DE's fault they "had" to resort to such levels of optimization willingly ignoring it all started because of people on his camp demanding the removal of self-damage, which was the only thing keeping those weapons in check. It's a self-inflected wound resulting from trying to have their cake and eat it too, but looking at the mirror is not an acceptable development.

Don't spend your time reasoning with him or those who refuse to acknowledge how this all started when removal of self-damage was demanded with no regards for how it would play it out years from then because they never cared about the eventual outcome of such a decision despite Pablo warning that raising the damage and efficiency ceiling leads to the entire game being re-balanced around the top of line to bring it back in check, effectively nerfing the entire game as a whole. It was quite prophetic to say the least considering the timing of that interview being very close to the removal of self-damage. He saw this coming years ahead.

Thus, don't waste your energy and reasoning. You will get nowhere.

[Uhkretor]

... So, so much noise...

Here's the thing - - reality check time, acceptance is optional but end result is the same - -, players having efficiency problems now were already suffering from efficiency conditional deflation... Pretty much like the worldwide economy suffering from economic conditional deflation...

 

Practical example: World economy had, in most countries (51% mininum) really low inflation values, or even in the negatives. As soon as the you-know-what in Eastern Europe happened, the whole illusion bubble popped...

Great, everyone's now living in the actual economic reality. 👍

... This is exactly the same thing. People had such high efficiency, they let themselves be taken into the illusion that it wasn't an illusion and it was perfectly normal. Now that you-know-what was released and readjustments were made (one of which already confirmed that its permanent and irreversible), the whole illusion bubble popped...

Great, everyone's now, well, living in the actual efficiency reality. 👍

 

... The ones that were really, and always, efficient at killing are exactly the ones that the update gave absolutely 0 problems whatsoever... But hey, its just an opinion from someone that actually got absolutely 0 problems from the update, is a Solo player, lives in Steel Path and breezed through the 1st Archon Hunt without skipping a single enemy...

... I'm far from being an expert on economy, btw... Anyway, I don't think its a good idea to blindly depend on inconsistencies if the result is, well, this...

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

Because Warframe is 9-year-old, minority oldbees who finished loot dominate and make loud voice here. 

AABC and murmur are painful labor, but governer just took out of excavator and dozer, and said that "it supposed to be a shovel. it's fun."

[Gamma745]

I don't know what missions you've been playing, but my Lenz isn't performing any differently. When I took it to do the 20-wave defense for Nightwave, I never have much ammo problem. I even use it for most of the run too, only switching to my secondary occasionally because I was bored using it for too long. I don't think I was dreaming it.

Heck, I even run into some people still happily spamming explosive on a SP Axi fissure. Or was it a Zariman bounty? They just blow everything up and still being a flashbang dispenser. Arguably slightly less due to the reduced AoE, but you get the idea.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I think extreme power should be unlocked through extreme merit. 

[OniDax]

6 hours ago, Mediloric said:

If I may be so blunt... Reading all this just sounds like you really dislike every element of the game, or the things that make Warframe... Warframe. 

I'm not saying you're wrong in your observations, there are parts that need to be improved but it's really sounding like you want a completely different game. 

 

I just want every element to be better. Adding additional mechanics to gunplay like ADS and expanding melee combat to make melee combat vs melee enemies something deeper than just basic hack and slash isn't turning Warframe into a different game, no more than adding Archwings, Lunaro, Plains of Eidolon, Railjack, Veilbreaker, and a Rogue-lite update in Duviri Paradox has turned/will turn it into a different game. Wanting improved sound design, AI behavior, map design, mission design, and animations isn't turning Warframe into a different game. Improving core gameplay mechanics so that collecting mastery fodder isn't the primary appealing thing about the game isn't turning Warframe into a different game.

If I may bluntly ask, why are you so opposed to seeing the core gameplay improved? Is it that it would expose how lacking Warframe's mechanics currently are when compared to other games, and therefore expose cracks in the perception of DE's perfection? The argument you present here is the same argument people made against Warframe having an open world years before DE added Plains of Eidolon. People like you were against it because, in their view, it was turning Warframe into a different game. They didn't want any expansion to the core Warframe gameplay experience only because DE themselves hadn't proposed it. The moment Plains of Eidolon was revealed and released, the same people started praising DE and saying "We didn't know we wanted open world until DE revealed PoE." That's how a lot of diehard DE fans act every time someone proposes improving or expanding something about Warframe. You oppose it, make excuses for why it isn't needed or wanted, and then when DE does it, you praise it as though it's some industry-shaking innovation.

Let me give you just one example: When Steve was showing off the Earth remaster years ago, a lot of Warframe players complained about it. Their chief complaint: there's no reason to go back to Earth because it offers them nothing. It wasn't enough that they would get to experience Warframe's gameplay in a visually-remastered, more immersive environment. And why? Because most people get bored of Warframe's gameplay quickly unless they have something new to collect and for which to grind. The gameplay is not satisfying enough to keep people interested when there are no more rewards to acquire; the content is not satisfying enough to keep people interested when it has no more rewards to offer.

Again, I don't think there's any single element of Warframe's core gameplay that is the best in the industry: not animations, not sound design, not AI behavior, not graphic quality, not texture resolution, not visual effects. If that's what makes Warframe Warframe then that's a sad commentary on Digital Extremes.

[JamesVahn]

It was fun boys, time to leave the game, I just don't get why DE nerf a PVE game, they should find other ways, and the community review now is recently negative. NERF NERF NERF more NERFS!!!

[Prexades]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb PrimalordialBob:

Let's stop with the gaslighting please? DE nerfed them into the ground, and to make them even remotely viable you have to sacrifice an exilus, mod slot, helminth slot, and aura. If you have to throw four patches of ducktape on a weapon it's broken. It's just better to fix it.

And again, the game is not in a better state. Now you don't respect your time and shoot hoards one by one.

It's not gas lighting besides you only have to take it so far, if you want to do nothing but spamming AoE.

You can be a bit more sensible in your use of weapons, Warframes don't carry just one weapon and they got their abilities too.

 

If you can't adapt then I think it is time for you to leave.

[Surbusken]

If it "hasn't change anything", why did we waste time on it.

Then it was pointless.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I did a sortie a few days ago, specifically a bows only mission. Picked my Nidus with proboscis cernos, my infested themed loadout. I quickly ran out of ammo on the first excavator and had no weapon until I got to the second one because no ammo dropped in that time. I got there and got one more arrow from the second excavator. Then I didn't get any more until the 3rd. It wasn't fun. And no I wasn't just spamming it, I was waiting and only shooting into large groups of corpus.

[Leqesai]

7 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I did a sortie a few days ago, specifically a bows only mission. Picked my Nidus with proboscis cernos, my infested themed loadout. I quickly ran out of ammo on the first excavator and had no weapon until I got to the second one because no ammo dropped in that time. I got there and got one more arrow from the second excavator. Then I didn't get any more until the 3rd. It wasn't fun. And no I wasn't just spamming it, I was waiting and only shooting into large groups of corpus.

The ammo changes have largely changed how players should be playing the game. If you are only using your cernos and have no ammo supply items then you are expected to run out of ammo (assuming you also don't have ammo mutation). 

Personally I don't find the changes problematic at all, but then again I use ammo mutation and don't mind swapping weapons if needed. Ammo capacity is something people should be modding for now. Weapons that run out of ammo quickly should probably have a max ammo mod equipped or ammo mutation. 

I get why a lot of people are trolling the reviews and whining like spoiled children over these changes, but personally I don't mind them one bit. Warframe has felt stale for a long time and having to rethink my strategies is a nice change of pace.

[FreeWilliam]

On 2022-09-09 at 1:03 PM, PrimalordialBob said:

Your reviews are mostly negative 3 days after the nerfs. Looking at your review record it's never been close to this bad. It's pretty clear the community does not like this.

Sure, you'll have the loud and proud minority trouncing over reddit and the forums pretending everything fine, but it really isn't. When you nerfed AOE you nerfed player efficiency. When you nerfed all AOE you showed that you do not respect players' time.

What is it you and others are suddenly unable to do that you could do before that inspires this vitriol, specifically.

[Cody]

12 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

What is it you and others are suddenly unable to do that you could do before that inspires this vitriol, specifically.

nerfs to fun weapons because of things like the picture below. then disguising it as a change for "balance and anti afk" we have every system in place to stop AFK, and if macroing or whatever is the problem maybe they can invest some of that player prime access money into a better anti cheat detection system. or start banning more programs like autohotkey from being run while the games being run, its really a simple solution but they choose to take the route of nerfing prime mods players worked for then refunding 25% of the endo/credit cost and a forma or 2... I'm not mad at the AoE nerf precisely, but the fact that the devs have and always will cater to a whining playerbase in a PvE game with the mindset of "HES STEALING MY KILLS TAKE HIS TOOLS" worries me about nerfs that could come to things not even mentioned yet that i do actually care about.