Take a hit DE

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2022-09-10 at 6:44 AM, Egathentale said:

Because of this, this change doesn't actually affect the dominance of AoE in these contexts

Shhhh before they nerf it again, as DE aid themselves is the nerfs are about "dominance" so if the nerfs werent good enough, expect more

[Jarriaga]

2 hours ago, MqToasty said:

If you read the mid-game player's post from a few pages back, they were working on soloing Steel Path with Wukong + KZarr

I wonder how players were able to clear The Steel Path back in 2020 before the introduction of the KZarr, Galvanized Mods and weapon arcanes? It's quite a mystery.... 

[MqToasty]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I wonder how players were able to clear The Steel Path back in 2020 before the introduction of the KZarr, Galvanized Mods and weapon arcanes? It's quite a mystery.... 

As I have always maintained, what I find inexplicable is DE's decision to introduce the gun buff a year ago, only to nerf guns today.  I even created a thread about it, which I suggest you go read if you are actually interested in constructive discussion instead of snarky quips.  Had they not buffed guns thus changing the balance, people would not have wasted time and resources investing in now-useless (for SP) equipment.  Folks would have focused their efforts on the stuff that worked prior to July of last year, and still works now for SP (eg. primer+COWBARF).  While I am willing to give DE the benefit of the doubt, I can't shake the bait-and-switch vibe that is permeating here.

[Prexades]

vor einer Stunde schrieb EdinaMonsoon:

all of my weapons, cus they now all have 100% less ammo

If their ammo count dropped by 100% it would be 0 so none of your weapons have ammo anymore.

How terrible, did you report it as a bug?

 

 

/s

[Jarriaga]

4 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

As I have always maintained, what I find inexplicable is DE's decision to introduce the gun buff a year ago, only to nerf guns today. 

I opposed the introduction of Galvanized mods and weapon arcanes since their conceptual announcement because it didn't take a prophet to see where it was going to lead up to:

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

That fact that people in this thread are uninstalling

It’s also funny that those same players were instantly replaced and then some. 

[MqToasty]

8 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I opposed the introduction of Galvanized mods and weapon arcanes since their conceptual announcement because it didn't take a prophet to see where it was going to lead up to:

 

So are you as puzzled as I am about DE's decisions?  Or do you have some insight into their decision process?

[Jarriaga]

18 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

So are you as puzzled as I am about DE's decisions?  Or do you have some insight into their decision process?

I am not puzzled. I'm disappointed this became a self-fulfilling prophecy despite Pablo himself foreshadowing this would be the actual outcome of giving in to powercreep demands and expectations years in advance during this interview (Timestamped):

But many times DE are milquetoast fence sitters who have too much faith in this community so they err on the side of "giving it a go and see how it goes" due to them designing this game into a corner. Thus, obviously unhealthy slippery slopes are given a go, if not left alone to be addressed later when people are so used to them they don't think DE will ever do something about them.

You think this is bad? Wait until DE change the design of the Decaying Dragon Key so it turns off shield gating instead of decreasing shield values.

DE need to grow a spine and choose their target audience and game design goals and always, always keep Soren Johnson's advice to heart when designing or changing content "to make it more fun" without considering how it will turn out years from then. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

DE need to grow a spine

Agreed. They more or less need to draw a line in the sand. 

[MechNexus]

Judging that this has happened at all, i'm guessing this is the start of the undoing of power creep. I'd written it off as a lost battle but hopefully now we can see a more healthy online environment because, contrary what people have regurgitated for almost 10 years now - PvE games still need balance so they can stay engaging. Someone, I believe it was Sid Meier - once said that players will optimise the fun out of the games they play if given the chance, and you need to actively fight to save players from themselves else we see situations like pre-veilbreaker where people literally AFK the game and get angry when others don't play along.

Edit: The full quote is actually a two parter from Soren Johnson, the co-creator of Civilisation, alongside Sid Meier - Soren said the first bit, and Sid added "Therefore, the role of the game designer is to protect the player from themselves" - Which seems pretty apt here, too.

[MqToasty]

24 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

DE need to grow a spine and choose their target audience and game design goals and always, always keep Soren Johnson's advice to heart when designing or changing content "to make it more fun" without considering how it will turn out years from then. 

That's easy to say when we are not in their shoes and do not have 300 families to feed.  My years in the corporate world have taught me that everyone has a boss.  The only thing you can do is to carefully consider your goals, priorities and trade-offs, and act accordingly.

[Jarriaga]

54 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

That's easy to say when we are not in their shoes and do not have 300 families to feed.  My years in the corporate world have taught me that everyone has a boss.  The only thing you can do is to carefully consider your goals, priorities and trade-offs, and act accordingly.

Then they should re-hire however is taking the calculated risks for them, because if their own developers can warn about an eventual outcome then the consequences should have been visible to their financial advisors and forecasters as well. You can't have it both ways in which their devs can clearly see how a decision could negatively affect the game long term to the point of publicly expressing it in an but the executives can't.

I mean, did you see Reb's post highlighting how wide the chasm is between players who feel Boreal is too hard and players who think he's too easy? How do you please both camps short of a difficulty slider? You can't.

[(PSN)Calibrijade65]

On 2022-09-09 at 7:03 PM, (PSN)DISCOgnome83 said:

To hell with you! To hell with all the Kuva Bramma, Kuva Zarr players that get all comfy with their one button kills all approach. To hell with my screen shaking ever 0.5s because you're launched another projectile in the direction of the enemy. To hell with my eyes burning because of your relentless firepower burning everything <lv100 in droves, and to hell with you feeling good about it. To hell with you asking me to come help because you've hit a lv5 Lich or Sister that your beloved Kuva Bramm, Kuva Zarr only tickles because you know nothing about the game, To hell with relics not getting cracked because you charge off on your own killing everything before it's become corrupted because you don't understand the game mechanics. To hell with the AoE meta and everyone that's complaining about the long overdue changes to it. Love the change DE, stay strong and let this absurdity run its course.

Well lookie here .....A true admittance!!! He's one that for sure ran to daddy DE with his support to nerf 

Well thank you for being a world class jerk because you didn't like what was happening, I hope that you are clearly satisfied with destroying everyone else's game fun. And I truly hope your TV, your game console and your controller all blowup!!

[Lone-Wanderer]

I guess after 9 years, you'd think DE would have a good understanding of their game and that it was also a horde-shooter. If there's anything I know about DE, their pride and arrogance won't revert/fix these changes.

Edit: Cut out couple words.

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2022-09-09 at 1:03 PM, PrimalordialBob said:

Take a hit DE

I agree!  Get some snacks ready, get all nice and comfy on the couch, and take a hit.  I've been having a great time playing with the recent changes so I think y'all have earned it. <3

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

1 hour ago, Lone-Wanderer said:

I guess after 9 years, you'd think DE would have a good understanding of their game and that it was also a horde-shooter. If there's anything I know about DE, their pride and arrogance won't revert/fix these changes.

Edit: Cut out couple words.

Changes were necessary, The weapons were being used and abused so that you could play the game while mowing the lawn and making a sandwich. Plus theres other ways to mitigate any issues with the new ammo economy. Plus the change to armor stripping is pretty good. I've been having a blast. Plus the changes were pretty conservative since they did'nt look at Sure Footed......yet. 

So now you actually have to play the game. The "I love not playing warframe" playstyle is gone.

 

 

[George_PPS]

I read some of these comments, many speak for many of us. it's very simple, when players really are dedicated to the game's long-term growth, we want our efforts and time used NOT WASTED. 

I feel that the direction of the game with each major Update keeps pouring cold water on top of me and my gears, most of the time entirely destroyed the mechanics of unique weapons, abilities, and/or nerf them to the ground. I can't stand this game that keeps destroying my optimized frames and weapons. Why not spend time to buff the 300+ weak weapons few at a time but to destroy the best and the most fun where players have spent a great deal of time, money and resource to build them up? 

 

I

 

[George_PPS]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

 

 

You can do it and keep doing it until they come to your favorite loadouts and deem your playstyle unacceptable whatever that is. 

[Ethorin]

2 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Why not spend time to buff the 300+ weak weapons few at a time but to destroy the best and the most fun where players have spent a great deal of time, money and resource to build them up? 

because most of those 300+ weak weapons aren't supposed to be able to hack it forever. Additionally, because trying to buff 300+ weapons to compete with five weapons hogging 47% usage is literally impossible because of the REASONS for that absurdly high usage. Additionally, because arguing that players have invested and therefore you can't nerf is begging for the game to die because something winds up too strong in some weird way that takes a while to find, and then, by the time the devs are aware of it being too op, the players have invested and now "you can't nerf it".

 

Additionally, if you are so invested that the only thing you can do post nerf is cry... You probably should look deeper into the history of the game. This is flat out, the lightest DE has ever been with this sort of situation.

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, Lone-Wanderer said:

I guess after 9 years, you'd think DE would have a good understanding of their game and that it was also a horde-shooter. If there's anything I know about DE, their pride and arrogance won't revert/fix these changes.

Edit: Cut out couple words.

These changes are the result of DE changing their stances, swallowing their pride, and giving in to demands to remove self-damage. This is a self-inflected wound resulting from trying to change their mind despite Pablo warning this would be the actual outcome down the line. They gave people who had no regards for the future of the game exactly what they wanted and it all lead here.

Had DE remained firm and not removed self-damage none of this would have happened.

[George_PPS]

9 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

because most of those 300+ weak weapons aren't supposed to be able to hack it forever. Additionally, because trying to buff 300+ weapons to compete with five weapons hogging 47% usage is literally impossible because of the REASONS for that absurdly high usage. Additionally, because arguing that players have invested and therefore you can't nerf is begging for the game to die because something winds up too strong in some weird way that takes a while to find, and then, by the time the devs are aware of it being too op, the players have invested and now "you can't nerf it".

 

Additionally, if you are so invested that the only thing you can do post nerf is cry... You probably should look deeper into the history of the game. This is flat out, the lightest DE has ever been with this sort of situation.

How about just 100, just 50, or just 25? READ recent players ratings and responses! What makes sense to you or DE doesn't make sense to and make players feel BAD! The direction of the way the game is nerfed since 2017 has been totally wrong. It's always meta destroying and making game more stuttering and sluggish.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

23 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

You can do it and keep doing it until they come to your favorite loadouts and deem your playstyle unacceptable whatever that is. 

I've been playing for nearly 9 years. I've seen my fair share of changes. And I've come out quite ok thanks 👌. If you did'nt think that DE wasn't going to make changes after they showed the data/usage of Wukong and the weapons: Then your just naive. And as someone as stated earlier:

These nerfs are quite light in comparison to previous changes made. The game has quite a bit of ways to mitigate ammo economy already. You might want to look into that vs just slapping X build because some youtuber told you too. And the crazy thing was after they removed self damage from the game and were praised. The ones doing it were in actuality hurting the overall Health of the game for everyone else (Pablo even alluded to this).

So.....yeah changes were happening. And the changes that did, are actually great. 

15 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

These changes are the result of DE changing their stances, swallowing their pride, and giving in to demands to remove self-damage. This is a self-inflected wound resulting from trying to change their mind despite Pablo warning this would be the actual outcome down the line. They gave people who had no regards for the future of the game exactly what they wanted and it all lead here.

Had DE remained firm and not removed self-damage none of this would have happened.

^^^^^

Everyone that's upset READ THIS. Pablo called it immediately when these changes happened. And this issue was likely #1 on his list after taking the new job.

 

[George_PPS]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

I've been playing for nearly 9 years. I've seen my fair share of changes. And I've come out quite ok thanks 👌. If you did'nt think that DE wasn't going to make changes after they showed the data/usage of Wukong and the weapons: Then your just naive. And as someone as stated earlier:

These nerfs are quite light in comparison to previous changes made. The game has quite a bit of ways to mitigate ammo economy already. You might want to look into that vs just slapping X build because some youtuber told you too. And the crazy thing was after they removed self damage from the game and were praised. The ones doing it were in actuality hurting the overall Health of the game for everyone else (Pablo even alluded to this).

So.....yeah changes were happening. And the changes that did, are actually great. 

^^^^^

Everyone that's upset READ THIS. Pablo called it immediately when these changes happened. And this issue was likely #1 on his list after taking the new job.

 

You are such a good kid. Developers love good kids. 

[Mieo_Mio]

Before self-damage was removed, I stopped for a moment before equipping my kuva tonkor and thought about the tileset I was deploying to. "Does this make sense in a claustrophobic infested Grineer galleon? No, not really. Take the hopped up Kuva Quartakk instead." 

[MechNexus]

36 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

How about just 100, just 50, or just 25? READ recent players ratings and responses! What makes sense to you or DE doesn't make sense to and make players feel BAD! The direction of the way the game is nerfed since 2017 has been totally wrong. It's always meta destroying and making game more stuttering and sluggish.

Tell me you don't understand gamedev without telling me you don't understand gamedev.