Take a hit DE

[Ethorin]

39 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

How about just 100, just 50, or just 25?

Let's say they do buff... ok, now here's a question, why wouldn't you whine that your late game tool, acquired from an intended to be difficult challenge, is now comparable to weapons available earlier and easier?

 

Nothing done to break the dominance of the Kuva/Tenet Launchers that isn't making a new, better tier, would NOT result in significant whining, and a new better tier just shifts the problem instead of fixing it.

 

And, once again, the last time we were in a Launcher meta was back when Self Damage was a thing, they killed the Tonkor back then by uncapping it's self damage and launchers went back to being mastery fodder for most until they made it self stagger instead. They COULD have essentially deleted the launchers unless you wanna use exactly Rev/Nyx/Shield Gate cheese. They COULD have nerfed the damage. Instead, they precision targeted the very specific behavior they wanted gone. Learn some trigger discipline and ammo conservation, it's good for you.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I'm gonna go ahead and blame content creators who make build videos AND DE who nerfs based on popularity. If either of those things weren't going on, there would be no issue. 

[Ayvuir]

Finally a lucid player on the forum. It's so strange to wander on the topics and only see ppl happy with aoe nerfs in a game that requires you to do sucessive missions in the most repetitive way, imagine taking even more time to do the same annoying extermination mission just to open a relic over and over again for example.

Playes are complaining becuz they expect other players to behave as they want in a public game, and this problem is impossible to fix. Some players just want to finish their missions asap, others want to farm some resource that drops in the end of a mission, etc. Warframe is an eternal grind and most don't want to waste thousands of hours on silly repeatable ultra easy open match.

If someone is annoyed because they can't have fun, the reason is, easy games are not fun(that's why i always ask for RAIDS), as a veteran i realized this a long time ago and i also do my missions alone or with friends to not bother others, and when i'm on open i'm always grateful when there's players rushing and killing everything.

 99% of the time, the reason to do missions in warframe is just to complete it. So, no time to waste guys.

[scorpiox81]

Honestly i have no qualms if someone spam AOE all around and complete the mission fast, really...i have no qualms and I kinda appreciate it as well because i can do more farming

If i wanted to learn the game mechanics and the intrinsic, I will go solo. Depending on the enemy level, i will usually AOE weapons for higher level missions when soloing. The issue here is...yes im a Newbie and im still farming for rare mods, so my AOE can pretty decently kill (before the nerfing), but now....i cant farm solo without a really good weapons and AOE warframes abilities which Im still farming to get.

So its either way im still stuck. Tbh...its defeating the purpose of playing as newbie.

Veteran players, have many mods and weapons arsenal, they can change their build according to situations but for newbie like me, i have limited mods and i will always focus on building the strongest weapon (currently is kuva zarr and ignis wraith) for crowd control purpose

From what i can see after observing this forum, the community is kind of split right now... AOE vs non AOE. Is this what DE trying to achieve? Create disharmony and displeasure among players???

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

5 hours ago, George_PPS said:

You are such a good kid. Developers love good kids. 

Nah. I'm just looking at the overall update. If your entire "playstyle" is completely ruined due to some small changes to ammo economy then that's a "you" problem. Solutions exist and it's not build breaking either 😉

Especially when it's far easier now to strip armor now. I guess now you actually have to learn the game mechanics now vs just relying on the Bramma or Zarr to get you through. Or an ability to completely carry you. 

Sucks to suck 

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, MqToasty said:

And yet they do.  If you read the mid-game player's post from a few pages back, they were working on soloing Steel Path with Wukong + KZarr.  Yet after this update, between the clone using ammo and the abundance of enemies, he runs out and is SOL.

I cannot speak for KZarr specifically because I never liked the weapon and never worked on it (the slots are unlocked, but it's not even fused to +60% -- and this is despite me having a riven for it).  But I definitely ran out of ammo multiple times on my Vermisplicer primary during the Archon Sortie Defense mission.  Of course, it didn't affect me much because I just whipped out my secondary or melee, killed a few rounds of enemies, and switched back when I picked up some Primary Ammo.  Yet this, I suspect, is exactly what many mid-game players do not have the luxury of doing.  While you and I can easily go into a mission with 3 maxed weapons and kill equally comfortably with any one of them, such is not the case for players who are still working their way through the game.

Which is the primary thing, Wukong was used. Them running out of ammo now isnt a cause of the ammo changes, that is a direct cause of the Wukong changes. Which apparently seem to solve the problem they intended to solve. They can easily swap frame and deal the same damage as we do without a backup clone, which is enough and also sustains ammo. If they are after the same tankyness as Wukong and the 2x damage bonus they can just swap to Garuda. Which allows for the same subsume options if they want "moar damage!".

What does Archon content have to do with anything that was changed though? That is new content intended to be the way it is. I also ran out of ammo for my Zarr on the defense, because there is no density of mobs and I decided to use an AOE gun versus single enemies throughout the mission. Plus the dum-dum operative decided to go stand in a very poor spot, so enemies were even more spread out on the very open map that is earth defense. It is also "endgame", ammo lasting throughout the defense mission for midgame players and their Zarr wouldnt help them one bit, since they'd still not have gear to tackle the actual archon fight. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I mean, yeah thats a review bomb, review bombs are by design inaccurate, and its employed as a way to exert pressure and attempt to coerce. Its pretty easy to make additional PSN accounts, so hypothetically, I could make a whole bunch, and then use them to come to this website, and upvote my own posts, and quote myself, and agree with everything I say, to give the illusion, of greater popularity and agreement than is actual or real. 

its not that difficult or costly for a relatively small amount of people, to try and manipulate systems like say... Steam Reviews. Even though some review bombs, can actually have a counter productive consequence (actually drawing in more people). Also thats not to say that there are plenty of genuine, authentic and well reasoning criticisms and complaints and negative reviews... just they can get lost and conflated with the bad. Another unintended aspect to review bombing. If you do have issues, you should be annoyed at the review bombers, because it makes it easier for people to conflate more reasonable, sincere and genuine criticisms, complaints and frustrating with the review bombing, drama making, inauthenticity, and emotion driven, mindless claims. 

Also, often after many new updates, the forums can have a larger majority of negativity than positivity. Except after a few days/weeks, we sometimes get polls/surveys, which gauge peoples interest, satisfaction etc, and we can get a more objective and fair analysis of fan feedback. Like when Angels of the Zariman was released, lots of forum negativity, here and at Reddit, and yet when we had a survey a bit after, majority were actually more in the positive ranges overall, and quite a lot of people participated. So, I'd question claims about what is clear about the Community reaction.

[Mediloric]

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

You didn't ask a question. You never asked a question, despite claiming repeatedly that you did. Let's not talk about credit or credibility. This is what you said:

My apologies, perhaps I shouldn't have veiled it in a statement which was disingenuous to you and what you said. Do forgive me on not being clearer on it. 

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

That's what you said after assuming that what I wanted was to remove things from Warframe. I followed up with your assertions by going into detail regarding what I wanted to improve, not remove. I explained how these improvements wouldn't turn Warframe into a completely different game, but would expand on the core gameplay of the game. I used examples of other systems that are far removed from Warframe's core gameplay but that didn't result in the game becoming a completely different game.

A misinterpretation perhaps, but not a false assumption, you were somewhat clear you in your descriptions. But now you explained your point a bit cleaner I can see what you mean. I was wrong to take the stance you wanted stuff changed, not removed. I do apologise for that.

I don't fully agree with everything put, I'm not against a change or an improvement shall we say, but I don't believe what you suggest is a right one at least for right now. Agree to disagree if you will. I'm sure we could debate this for hours mind you. 

I think I'd be more for it if there was more talk of it from the developers. 

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

I mentioned opposition and antagonism towards player suggestions regarding adding open world in the years before PoE was added because the people who opposed adding open world made the same exaggerated arguments as you did: that any expansion to Warframe's core gameplay would turn Warframe into a completely different game, even though the suggestions weren't calling for DE to make it a completely different game or remove any elements from Warframe. You're engaging in the same behavior here by asserting that improving animations (like how the character runs, sprints, walks, holds weapons, swings melee), adding a blocking behavior to melee enemies, improving sound design (like being able to hear returning fire from enemies on tilesets and having sounds travel authentically across distance), improving terrain quality on more maps (like was done with Earth), and improving AI behavior is going to somehow turn Warframe into a completely different game.

Except I wasn't offering opposition nor antagonism, merely trying to understand your point of view and offer my one, perhaps playing a bit of devil's advocate. Although if I come across to your perception as hostile or overly aggressive, I can only apologize. That was not my intent for this dialogue. 

But I will say again, I'm not AGAINST these kind of improvements but again making a poor assumption that I'm "engaging in the same behavior" helps no one. Nothing was asserted only that I was stating my point of view, that's all I've been doing our whole bit of back and forth.  

If these sort of changes can be done, I'm all for it. but I suspect it will come at a unreasonable cost to DE to consider. 

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

There's no other way to interpret such an exaggerated view as anything other than an aversion to improvement/expansion of the gameplay mechanics.

There is, but I don't think you want to see it due to possibly previous experiences with people who disagree with you,

and that's fine, it's not my job to dissuade or convince you from this nor should it be.  You're very firm on what you want and that's commendable. 

The whole time I've not addressed other people or groups or anything, not really. I'm only talking about it from MY perspective, MY thoughts and feelings on stuff you mentioned, I've not lumped other people together as you have, I don't think it does dialogue especially ours any good. 

If that's not how you see it then I can only apologise that you don't see it that way but I am discussing this as a one on one, not advocating for a group. 

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

To be abundantly clear, I don't want to change Warframe into a completely different game. What I suggested does not change Warframe into a completely different game. What it does is expand on Warframe's core gameplay - gunplay and melee combat - and suggests improvements to related aspects of that core gameplay - namely animations and sounds related to gunplay and melee gameplay. And why do I suggest this? Because I think it will improve the core gameplay experience and make it more engaging, such that players are still having fun even when they've collected everything they want to collect in the game. It's these suggestions that you claim would turn Warframe into a completely different game.

Ah and so we get into the meat of it. To me that wasn't exactly clear in your first post. Not your fault mayhap. It just from my perspective you didn't seem to be enjoying it and wanted a large scale...  improvement. I thank you for delving deeper into that. Now I understand your point better, I do agree! 

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

To answer your question regarding why I'm playing a game I don't enjoy: there are elements of Warframe I enjoy. I enjoy the Warframes. I don't really suggest improvements/changes to warframes, because the warframes I choose to play with are sufficiently satisfying to me. I main Excal Umbra. Before that, Excal Prime. I've played with other warframes like Rhino, Oberon, Ash, Hydroid, Nyx, Mag, Nekros, Oberon, Nidus, Chroma, Baruuk, Mesa, Lavos, etc. I enjoy the warframes. I generally enjoy the melee gameplay. I do find a lot of the stances stiff, though, and melee vs melee gameplay to be boring. I like that Warframe offers diversity of gameplay experiences. But I don't think Warframe does any of those gameplay experiences better than other studios, so I want Warframe to improve and expand those systems. That would make Warframe better than those other games in every single area. I am satisfied with what Warframe does. I am not satisfied with how it does it right now.

I see, that's mostly what I wanted to know. Seeing someone who is from my perspective so... I don't want to say against Warframe as it's the incorrect adjective for you especially now, but let's say a strong advocate for across the board improvements? It was just interesting to me! 

I do agree with what you're talking about with stances and melee, I really enjoy how melee feels, haven't found a game that does it... I don't wanna say well as that's really subjective but that appealing to me. . But you are right the stances are quite ridged at the best of times. 

And I agree with you, stuff like that should be improved and expanded as to me that is the strength (or one of them) of Warframe but I have a slight problem with that too.

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

But you've repeatedly made exaggerated claims that this will turn Warframe into a completely different game.

I wouldn't say exaggerated, but more only seeing a incomplete picture and wanting to add your piece to it. 

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

And that exaggeration continues with your accusation that I'm somehow dodging a question you never asked. But I asked a question, a question you did not answer in all your exaggeration.

Again my apologies for not being clearer with it, but now you have!

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

I'll ask another question: How would improving animations (specifically for how the warframes run/sprint/walk with and without guns and melee, how warframes swing weapons, and how operators run/walk), sound design (particularly how gunfire sounds and how explosions sound, and how they sound across distance), AI behavior (particularly how NPCs react to gunfire and melee attacks), map design (specifically remastering terrain on Mars and Venus like was done with Earth tileset), and even potentially adding an ADS system turn Warframe into a completely different game?

Perhaps I can explain it like this: I see Warframe as quite a simple beast when you strip everything back. To the modding, the gunplay, the missions, hopefully I'm painting the correct picture for you to see. 

I believe Warframe stands best when that simplicy holds up something more complex or more in depth it'd be better to say. Having a good foundation to work with.

To me I initially interpreted what you wanted as to gut out a system within the foundation and such potentially weaken that foundation for something new and slightly shiny that may or may not fit. Now after reading your bit of a deeper delve, I can see you want to strengthen that foundation and I'm all for that. 

If you're looking for me to say I'm wrong, oh I am! And I thank you for explaining your points. 

22 hours ago, OniDax said:

By the way, in case it isn't also clear, I was talking about the Earth tileset remaster, not the Plains of Eidolon remaster.

Apologies, I thought you meant the PoE remaster, As it's what I think that was such a big thing on Earth. 

Quite enjoyed this dialogue though! 

[OniDax]

20 minutes ago, Mediloric said:

My apologies, perhaps I shouldn't have veiled it in a statement which was disingenuous to you and what you said. Do forgive me on not being clearer on it. 

A misinterpretation perhaps, but not a false assumption, you were somewhat clear you in your descriptions. But now you explained your point a bit cleaner I can see what you mean. I was wrong to take the stance you wanted stuff changed, not removed. I do apologise for that.

I don't fully agree with everything put, I'm not against a change or an improvement shall we say, but I don't believe what you suggest is a right one at least for right now. Agree to disagree if you will. I'm sure we could debate this for hours mind you. 

I think I'd be more for it if there was more talk of it from the developers. 

Except I wasn't offering opposition nor antagonism, merely trying to understand your point of view and offer my one, perhaps playing a bit of devil's advocate. Although if I come across to your perception as hostile or overly aggressive, I can only apologize. That was not my intent for this dialogue. 

But I will say again, I'm not AGAINST these kind of improvements but again making a poor assumption that I'm "engaging in the same behavior" helps no one. Nothing was asserted only that I was stating my point of view, that's all I've been doing our whole bit of back and forth.  

If these sort of changes can be done, I'm all for it. but I suspect it will come at a unreasonable cost to DE to consider. 

There is, but I don't think you want to see it due to possibly previous experiences with people who disagree with you,

and that's fine, it's not my job to dissuade or convince you from this nor should it be.  You're very firm on what you want and that's commendable. 

The whole time I've not addressed other people or groups or anything, not really. I'm only talking about it from MY perspective, MY thoughts and feelings on stuff you mentioned, I've not lumped other people together as you have, I don't think it does dialogue especially ours any good. 

If that's not how you see it then I can only apologise that you don't see it that way but I am discussing this as a one on one, not advocating for a group. 

Ah and so we get into the meat of it. To me that wasn't exactly clear in your first post. Not your fault mayhap. It just from my perspective you didn't seem to be enjoying it and wanted a large scale...  improvement. I thank you for delving deeper into that. Now I understand your point better, I do agree! 

I see, that's mostly what I wanted to know. Seeing someone who is from my perspective so... I don't want to say against Warframe as it's the incorrect adjective for you especially now, but let's say a strong advocate for across the board improvements? It was just interesting to me! 

I do agree with what you're talking about with stances and melee, I really enjoy how melee feels, haven't found a game that does it... I don't wanna say well as that's really subjective but that appealing to me. . But you are right the stances are quite ridged at the best of times. 

And I agree with you, stuff like that should be improved and expanded as to me that is the strength (or one of them) of Warframe but I have a slight problem with that too.

I wouldn't say exaggerated, but more only seeing a incomplete picture and wanting to add your piece to it. 

Again my apologies for not being clearer with it, but now you have!

Perhaps I can explain it like this: I see Warframe as quite a simple beast when you strip everything back. To the modding, the gunplay, the missions, hopefully I'm painting the correct picture for you to see. 

I believe Warframe stands best when that simplicy holds up something more complex or more in depth it'd be better to say. Having a good foundation to work with.

To me I initially interpreted what you wanted as to gut out a system within the foundation and such potentially weaken that foundation for something new and slightly shiny that may or may not fit. Now after reading your bit of a deeper delve, I can see you want to strengthen that foundation and I'm all for that. 

If you're looking for me to say I'm wrong, oh I am! And I thank you for explaining your points. 

Apologies, I thought you meant the PoE remaster, As it's what I think that was such a big thing on Earth. 

Quite enjoyed this dialogue though! 

Thanks. Yeah, I'm glad I was able to make it clearer. I generally enjoy Warframe, but I get bored of it fairly quickly, and for me, it comes down to the core experience of the combat - how it feels to move and shoot, how it sounds, how it looks. My understanding of what it really was that makes Warframe less than what it should be, in my opinion of course, has changed over the years. But playing other games, specifically other First and Third Person Shooters, as well as looking at other melee-based action games, has helped me understand what I'm missing when I play Warframe vs other games. It's not difficult to see what other games are missing when playing Warframe, because Warframe offers so much. But playing games like Modern Warfare 2019 and Insurgency Sandstorm, EA's Battlefront 2, Ghost Recon Wildlands, Assassin's Creed Unity, and Ghost of Tsushima has helped me see a lot of the things Warframe does, but individually done better in those games, specifically animation, sound design, environment design, and AI behavior.

I've been playing Warframe on and off since May 2013. Bought the highest level of the Founder's Program and everything. I'm still here because I always liked what DE was trying to do with Warframe, but was always disappointed by the execution. I've always felt they could do better. Through the game's history, DE has repeatedly left features and systems unfinished as they move on to something else that half of the time ends up doing the same sort of thing the previous system was doing. I want the game to build on what it has and make it better.

As you put it, I want DE to build on Warframe's foundations. So, even though the game is nearly 10 years old, I want DE to go back and improve the core gameplay mechanics and systems. I don't have to ask that of other studios because they make sequels where they iterate and improve on their gameplay systems. We currently don't see that from games that last decades. Typically, the effort that goes into updates wanes and wanes as the years go by, as devs move on to different companies because of stagnation. I want Warframe to break that mold. I want DE to take the step to build upon their foundations. They've done that a bit with some tilesets and with PoE, and with texture reworks. I'd like to see that with more areas of the game. I think DE can do it, and I think it would greatly expand the gameplay experience to rework things like animations, sound design (again, specifically how guns sound when firing them - particularly Grineer, Tenno, and Orokin guns - and how NPC and player gunfire and explosions sound across distances in tilesets and open worlds), and even map design (continue what they did with the Earth and Jupiter tilesets on Venus tileset, Mars tileset, and Europa tileset). AI behavior would take more time to rework, but improving their reaction time and reworking their animations would help change up how it feels to fight them. Aim Down Sights is something I want to see as well, but that likely won't happen. I think it would help the player feel more connected to the gun they shoot, though, but that would certainly require heavily reworking art assets.

 

Main thing is this: Warframe does a lot of things. It's a looter shooter, a horde shooter, an action game, some even say an MMO. At its core, though, it's a third person shooter. I want it to be a better third person shooter. I want it to be a better shooter game and a better action game, and I think it actually can be among the best games when it comes to gunplay mechanics, melee gameplay mechanics, animations, sound design, and environment design. At very least, I think DE should always push for that. And in the context of this topic, I think if these elements were improved, and then if NPC behavior was improved, I think more players would play the game simply for the combat and not just to kill as many enemies as possible, as quickly as possible, in order to get their desired reward items as quickly as possible. Basically, if the gameplay was a bit more engaging for more players, there would be less people relying on specific metas to get through the content to get their rewards as quickly as possible.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

On 2022-09-12 at 10:00 AM, Monolake said:

You realize this would be even more dramatic hit to explosives and all the easy mode baddies would want to burn DE to the ground.

I am well aware but....

I'm also calling this out for what it is. If folks TRULY claim they want AOE back it's old power and ways then I say give it to em.

Reverse the nerf and add Self-Damage back. As self-damage was originally what kept AOE weapons under control/balanced.

Odds are many don't want self damage back because then the ez-mode that it is wouldn't be nearly as feasible. 

[FreeWilliam]

On 2022-09-11 at 11:04 PM, Cody said:

nerfs to fun weapons because of things like the picture below. then disguising it as a change for "balance and anti afk" we have every system in place to stop AFK, and if macroing or whatever is the problem maybe they can invest some of that player prime access money into a better anti cheat detection system. or start banning more programs like autohotkey from being run while the games being run, its really a simple solution but they choose to take the route of nerfing prime mods players worked for then refunding 25% of the endo/credit cost and a forma or 2... I'm not mad at the AoE nerf precisely, but the fact that the devs have and always will cater to a whining playerbase in a PvE game with the mindset of "HES STEALING MY KILLS TAKE HIS TOOLS" worries me about nerfs that could come to things not even mentioned yet that i do actually care about.

I can't see the picture, but the question was "what is it that you're unable to do specifically", so I'm curious as to what was in there that would answer that question.

Unless you ran out of ammo but didn't consider ammo pads, specters, and all the other solutions that already existed? Was that the picture? Have you played with specters?

[Josh486]

Just now realized DE didn't even go through with the LOS nerfs so you guys have even less to complain about. How lame were your playstyles that having to deal with a little less ammo has massively hindered you

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

4 hours ago, Josh486 said:

Just now realized DE didn't even go through with the LOS nerfs so you guys have even less to complain about. How lame were your playstyles that having to deal with a little less ammo has massively hindered you

I for one jump, shoot the bramma, shield pillage, and repeat. I was detonating above heads for arcane rage, but they removed that dynamic. Having less ammo is cute, and people will move slightly left to tonkor, which makes it a buffer weapon for Bramma. You see, Tonkor will almost certainly get nerfed once one of the youtubers discovers how powerful it truly is. However, Tonkor isn't as kickass of a concept and feel as Bramma, so I'm willing to sacrifice it so that Bramma falls out of the public eye, and DE's nerf radar as a result. The goal is keep exposing lesser-known meta builds to the public in order to get the eye of sauron off of Bramma. Tonkor was king once, and it shall be kind again! 

[Flavor-Savior]

Yeah I dunno, I think the update was pretty good. Has OP tried aiming, non-AoE headshots do triple damage across the board now. Stack that with crits or arcanes and everything completely melts. If you're running out of ammo, you can always switch to your pistol or your stick, holster speed is also lightning fast now. Who even cares about the Kuva Bramma, that holster buff is lowkey the best thing in the new update.

I'm a solo guy, but assuming you're running in a squad like most of the player base, what's even the ammo economy issue. Shouldn't y'all be drowning in ammo if everybody's killing something? Slap on a sniper ammo mutation and you'll probably be okay.

[K0bra]

Am 12.9.2022 um 07:47 schrieb Leqesai:

The ammo changes have largely changed how players should be playing the game. If you are only using your cernos and have no ammo supply items then you are expected to run out of ammo (assuming you also don't have ammo mutation). 

Personally I don't find the changes problematic at all, but then again I use ammo mutation and don't mind swapping weapons if needed. Ammo capacity is something people should be modding for now. Weapons that run out of ammo quickly should probably have a max ammo mod equipped or ammo mutation. 

I get why a lot of people are trolling the reviews and whining like spoiled children over these changes, but personally I don't mind them one bit. Warframe has felt stale for a long time and having to rethink my strategies is a nice change of pace.

Lol whats so difficult to understand here? Didnt you read what he wrote?

Sortie? Bow only mission?

Sorry i was for the nerfs but in this state its just to much.

It doesnt only affect Aoe weapons and even destroys some of them NO it affects even most of the other guns. Is it necessary to actually make certain weapons kinda unusable to balance the gameplay?

Its not nice to get a playstyle forced down your throat.

When i want to play with just an Assault rifle like my beloved braton prime or kuva hind i should be able to without running out of ammo all of the time.It was before now its not. When i just want to play with a secondary i should be able to like before but when even guns like the dex furis are unplayable at this point something went wrong.The gun was never strong and they indirectly nerfed it like ALOT other even weak and underpowered guns.

The only solution for everything is melee at this point and thats so boring. So back to melee only meta...

Maybe its best to take a break again till they get their stuff together.

[RichardKam]

35分钟前 , K0bra 说:

Lol whats so difficult to understand here? Didnt you read what he wrote?

Sortie? Bow only mission?

Sorry i was for the nerfs but in this state its just to much.

It doesnt only affect Aoe weapons and even destroys some of them NO it affects even most of the other guns. Is it necessary to actually make certain weapons kinda unusable to balance the gameplay?

Its not nice to get a playstyle forced down your throat.

When i want to play with just an Assault rifle like my beloved braton prime or kuva hind i should be able to without running out of ammo all of the time.It was before now its not. When i just want to play with a secondary i should be able to like before but when even guns like the dex furis are unplayable at this point something went wrong.The gun was never strong and they indirectly nerfed it like ALOT other even weak and underpowered guns.

The only solution for everything is melee at this point and thats so boring. So back to melee only meta...

Maybe its best to take a break again till they get their stuff together.

When I see people complaining ammo changes and they mention bow, I just remember,

There is a guy on ytube that took down the Archon, with MK-1 Paris, in 10 mins.

[(XBOX)Kuhl MC]

Am 10.9.2022 um 13:01 schrieb EdinaMonsoon:

finally, a reasonable and truthful complaint

the removal of +100% ammo on merciless has ruined a lot of my builds that weren't meta but were good enough to get the job done in SP. now i have to sacrifice a good portion of damage for an ammo mod

Exactly this. As a long time player (7200+ hours), most of the fun for the recent years came from getting a riven for a sub-par weapon and trying to make it SP viable. So I spent months on formaing tons of unused stuff, putting in arcanes and Exilus adapters just for constantly running out of ammo now... Certain weapons mandatory needed the extra ammo from Merciless just to finish a SP Exterminate (Try running Dera Vandal or Twin Grakata against Grineer and you will know, what I mean). This whole thing went way over the top and needs to be addressed asap!

[Flavor-Savior]

1 hour ago, K0bra said:

Lol whats so difficult to understand here? Didnt you read what he wrote?

Sortie? Bow only mission?

Sorry i was for the nerfs but in this state its just to much.

It doesnt only affect Aoe weapons and even destroys some of them NO it affects even most of the other guns. Is it necessary to actually make certain weapons kinda unusable to balance the gameplay?

Its not nice to get a playstyle forced down your throat.

When i want to play with just an Assault rifle like my beloved braton prime or kuva hind i should be able to without running out of ammo all of the time.It was before now its not. When i just want to play with a secondary i should be able to like before but when even guns like the dex furis are unplayable at this point something went wrong.The gun was never strong and they indirectly nerfed it like ALOT other even weak and underpowered guns.

The only solution for everything is melee at this point and thats so boring. So back to melee only meta...

Maybe its best to take a break again till they get their stuff together.

For bow-only sorties you still have capable alternatives like Mesa, Titania or really any frame with offensive abilities if you run out of ammo, it's really not as catastrophic as y'all make it sound. They'll probably tweak some of the caps in future hotfixes, but what these changes really boil down to is that ammo is an actual mechanic now. Previously, ammo wasn't a consideration, for most guns it was functionally infinite. Now, ammo limitations incentivize you to bring a well-rounded loadout. Maybe I'm not as clever as you are, but that seems like a reasonable enough change to me.

[--K--Sharkfin]

Apparently DE never wanted us to have too much killing efficiency. Looking back on when and how DE nerf things they always go against players efficiency on either earning stuffs too fast or killings things too quick.

In my experience DE always try to make a mission last around 10 minutes as a bench mark, doesn't matter if it's just a simple boss fight or a defence mission. Also doesn't matter your weapon of choice or how you mod your frames. Forasmuch as the mission last long-enough-with-their-standards by limiting how effective our damage/killing are.

[George_PPS]

On 2022-09-09 at 1:03 PM, PrimalordialBob said:

 

The solution to this is to make stronger single target enemies/mechanics that require a single target weapon, not nerf hoard killing tactics while keeping all the hoards around.

DE sent out random surveys to try and gauge the community's reaction. Well look no further than your steam reviews, it's pretty clear how most of the community feels.

I just realized that DE listened to players but to a small group of players who suggest easy ways to update the game. Usually, it’s to nerf the ones that stick out because there are only few. If they have to focus on the weak ones, they won’t have time to review and update. This is a sign of decline.

Warframe used to be on par with Destiny 2 in terms of player count, after several rounds of MAJOR NERFS across the board on the most popular and fun Warframes and weapons, many players have been purged resulting only few than 1/3  to 1/4 of players comparing to D2. Yet we are going to see even more fun killing nerfs down the pipeline. 

[George_PPS]

On 2022-09-12 at 1:48 PM, MechNexus said:

Tell me you don't understand gamedev without telling me you don't understand gamedev.

I am not a game developer. I am just a gamer who want to enjoy games after work, not spending all day to reshuffle my loadouts that have been nerfed to the ground. Are you a game developer or a player?

[Cybercobra2]

for the record for the people in this thread. i would like to refer to this thread:

which points out that like 95% of the negative reviews originate from china.

who don't even use the normal steam client and had to specificly go over to the normal steam client to leave these reviews.

its all just Chinese AFK farmers so upset that they cant AFK farm any more that they review-bombed the non china steam client version of warframe.

not normal players.

which also shows why a lot of people here were not running into the problems DE claims to have fixed, the problem was not the most prevalent in western servers.

[Cody]

19 hours ago, FreeWilliam said:

I can't see the picture, but the question was "what is it that you're unable to do specifically", so I'm curious as to what was in there that would answer that question.

Unless you ran out of ammo but didn't consider ammo pads, specters, and all the other solutions that already existed? Was that the picture? Have you played with specters?

would be nice to play the game the way i'd like to without having someone in the other corner whining about my playstyle or the weapons i enjoy using. thats what i'm "unable to do" is play the game how i enjoy. because apparently people have a problem with everything and want to watch the world (or in this case the gaming community) burn.

[MqToasty]

On 2022-09-13 at 8:01 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Which is the primary thing, Wukong was used. Them running out of ammo now isnt a cause of the ammo changes, that is a direct cause of the Wukong changes. Which apparently seem to solve the problem they intended to solve. They can easily swap frame and deal the same damage as we do without a backup clone, which is enough and also sustains ammo. If they are after the same tankyness as Wukong and the 2x damage bonus they can just swap to Garuda. Which allows for the same subsume options if they want "moar damage!".

What does Archon content have to do with anything that was changed though? That is new content intended to be the way it is. I also ran out of ammo for my Zarr on the defense, because there is no density of mobs and I decided to use an AOE gun versus single enemies throughout the mission. Plus the dum-dum operative decided to go stand in a very poor spot, so enemies were even more spread out on the very open map that is earth defense. It is also "endgame", ammo lasting throughout the defense mission for midgame players and their Zarr wouldnt help them one bit, since they'd still not have gear to tackle the actual archon fight. 

I feel like we are talking in circles.  Please re-read that hypothetical mid-game player scenario I wrote a few replies back.  It is hypothetical because I do not that other player's exact situation, but I'm guessing that is the general situation they are in as they indicated resources are tight.  If you are telling them simply to ditch Wukong in addition to building a viable Secondary and Melee, then they would have to scrounge up another viable frame (do they even have the slots?), another gold potato, forma, mods, endo...  Their progress will now be set back for months and not just weeks, depending on how frequently they play.

That archon defense mission is, in essence, a Steel Path Sortie-style Defense but with no self-revives.  If you run out of ammo there, odds are you will run out of ammo on a regular SP mission, indicating that the other player was most likely telling the truth.  I used that mission as an example because that and the mission before it are the only ones I did with my Vermisplicer before I swapped in Pax Charge.

[SakuyaJoeyy]

7小时前 , Cybercobra2 说:

for the record for the people in this thread. i would like to refer to this thread:

which points out that like 95% of the negative reviews originate from china.

who don't even use the normal steam client and had to specificly go over to the normal steam client to leave these reviews.

its all just Chinese AFK farmers so upset that they cant AFK farm any more that they review-bombed the non china steam client version of warframe.

not normal players.

which also shows why a lot of people here were not running into the problems DE claims to have fixed, the problem was not the most prevalent in western servers.

You do notice ammo is been mentioned 10 times more than wukong right? 

From what I've heard, so long as wukong's 2 remain untouched, it really doesn't matter how the monkey is nerfed, Chinese players are also tired of monkeyframe simulator.

But the ammo change is kinda changing how the game is played, like the forum has been talking, AOE or not they now have to trade slots to include ammo mutation, giving up some damage; or have to run around gathering ammo; or spend resources making ammo pizza. The original flow of playing is forced to change, resulting in longer mission time and lower reward efficiency, that's what the backlash is about.

Also something is more or less ignored, there are more casual players than hardcore players especially among Chinese player due to long study or work time. Maybe western server player tend to have more casual time so the ammo change is more tolerable. For me, I work roughly 10-12 hour a day during weekday so I would have to limit the time spent on games but insist some very quality time spent. Sure it's good to see some challenge or difficulty for some player, most people  in their mid or late game would just do the daily 25 SE, weekly nightwave and log off. Forcing them to spend more time than they could afford is obviously, not welcomed.