The New War just made me uninstall after 7 years playing (MR30)

[ArxDurusMaximus]

I was on a hiatus from playing for a little while (after I hit MR30 and maxed out everything available for like the 4th time), and just came back last month.  Started cleaning up the updated Railjack stuff, picking up the new Primes, hunting the new Sisters, etc.  I put off starting The New War because of the warning that it would take "several hours" and I wouldn't be able to access the regular game during that time.  It sounded pretty awful, for someone who just wants to play and collect everything.  But eventually all that new content hiding behind the quest called to me, so today I broke down and activated the quest.

I know some people like this.  I know because I've read their posts.  But even they admit that this is not Warframe.  The big hint is that YOU ARE NOT USING A WARFRAME.  This is some other game I'm being forced to play in order to get back to playing Warframe.  Okay, some of the previous quests have felt like that as well.  But they were all relatively short, and you could quit them at any time and go back to regular missions.  A few hours into The New War, I just don't want to do this anymore.  It's not fun.  Nothing about it is REMOTELY fun.  (And "a few hours" really should have been your first hint.  There's no excuse for taking us out of the real game this long.)

The movement, which is the best thing about Warframe, is atrocious.  For this game, it feels like playing a paraplegic.  We can't run properly, or jump, or slide, we can barely move.  The "stealth" sections were torturous, but thankfully you can just follow directions online, and the mechanics are fairly forgiving.  As for the rest, playing a regular human, with no Warframe, no choice of powers, not even a choice of weapons, is not only boring, but is frustrating and stupid.  But I pushed through, because I've been playing this game a long time and I really enjoy the actual game, if I could ever get back to it.

And then I got to these "boss fights."  And they are TERRIBLE.  And I don't want to play anymore.  If I could go back to the regular game, I would.  But life is too short to throw more hours into this unfun torture-machine they have turned their beautiful game into.  Seriously, DE.  I see posts of people complaining about this all the way back when The New War released.  How have you not fixed this?  How many players like me have quit because it's just too long and obnoxious and not fun?  I play video games to enjoy myself.  I'd love to get back to enjoying myself in Warframe.  If you eventually come up with an option to get out of this garbage, I'd gladly take it.  Until then, well, it's a damn shame.  I'll miss Warframe.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I guess this is it for you then unfortunately, farewell. 

[tabernacl]

so did you finish the quest? I was in the same boat. I put off the new war for a while cuz of the critiques about it, but I eventually did it. Personally I played it in sections over a few days cuz I wasn't gonna sit there for some hours bc it wasn't exactly the same game. I just viewed it as a stand apart different game. you walk slow but that's w/e, distances aren't too far. bosses were weird, but once you figure it out you just go through the motions. I did wolf, owl, snake in this order. wolf you gotta find the mirror image that has it's melee weapons out (this is the tell) owl, I used the smoke screen ability to push through the waves pushing you back to hit it and snake I just ran around getting shots off when I could. You eventually finish and you get access to veilbreaker and never have to do the quest again. also lore wise the quest was decent until the sit down meal between adult and kid you. was super cheesy and off putting. they messed up there imo. DE hasn't really been great at the concept of 'mood' in a while. It is a chore, but one you gotta do once. 

[ReddyDisco]

There is a warning before starting new war, there are multiple videos about the gameplay on youtube, it's not like it's new, you had every hint about what to expect from it. well gl out there

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

10 hours ago, ArxDurusMaximus said:

I was on a hiatus from playing for a little while (after I hit MR30 and maxed out everything available for like the 4th time), and just came back last month.  Started cleaning up the updated Railjack stuff, picking up the new Primes, hunting the new Sisters, etc.  I put off starting The New War because of the warning that it would take "several hours" and I wouldn't be able to access the regular game during that time.  It sounded pretty awful, for someone who just wants to play and collect everything.  But eventually all that new content hiding behind the quest called to me, so today I broke down and activated the quest.

I know some people like this.  I know because I've read their posts.  But even they admit that this is not Warframe.  The big hint is that YOU ARE NOT USING A WARFRAME.  This is some other game I'm being forced to play in order to get back to playing Warframe.  Okay, some of the previous quests have felt like that as well.  But they were all relatively short, and you could quit them at any time and go back to regular missions.  A few hours into The New War, I just don't want to do this anymore.  It's not fun.  Nothing about it is REMOTELY fun.  (And "a few hours" really should have been your first hint.  There's no excuse for taking us out of the real game this long.)

The movement, which is the best thing about Warframe, is atrocious.  For this game, it feels like playing a paraplegic.  We can't run properly, or jump, or slide, we can barely move.  The "stealth" sections were torturous, but thankfully you can just follow directions online, and the mechanics are fairly forgiving.  As for the rest, playing a regular human, with no Warframe, no choice of powers, not even a choice of weapons, is not only boring, but is frustrating and stupid.  But I pushed through, because I've been playing this game a long time and I really enjoy the actual game, if I could ever get back to it.

And then I got to these "boss fights."  And they are TERRIBLE.  And I don't want to play anymore.  If I could go back to the regular game, I would.  But life is too short to throw more hours into this unfun torture-machine they have turned their beautiful game into.  Seriously, DE.  I see posts of people complaining about this all the way back when The New War released.  How have you not fixed this?  How many players like me have quit because it's just too long and obnoxious and not fun?  I play video games to enjoy myself.  I'd love to get back to enjoying myself in Warframe.  If you eventually come up with an option to get out of this garbage, I'd gladly take it.  Until then, well, it's a damn shame.  I'll miss Warframe.

There is nothing good enough anyone can say to you that will please you. Guess that's it for you. Time to find something else to play.

[nerfinator6]

11 hours ago, ArxDurusMaximus said:

And then I got to these "boss fights."  And they are TERRIBLE.  And I don't want to play anymore.

I understand some people not being able to do them due to physical disabilites and such, but those boss fights really aren't THAT bad. I think I failed the first one once, then I realised what I was meant to do and didn't screw up any of the other ones.

[Silligoose]

11 hours ago, ArxDurusMaximus said:

I was on a hiatus from playing for a little while (after I hit MR30 and maxed out everything available for like the 4th time), and just came back last month.  Started cleaning up the updated Railjack stuff, picking up the new Primes, hunting the new Sisters, etc.  I put off starting The New War because of the warning that it would take "several hours" and I wouldn't be able to access the regular game during that time.  It sounded pretty awful, for someone who just wants to play and collect everything.  But eventually all that new content hiding behind the quest called to me, so today I broke down and activated the quest.

I know some people like this.  I know because I've read their posts.  But even they admit that this is not Warframe.  The big hint is that YOU ARE NOT USING A WARFRAME.  This is some other game I'm being forced to play in order to get back to playing Warframe.  Okay, some of the previous quests have felt like that as well.  But they were all relatively short, and you could quit them at any time and go back to regular missions.  A few hours into The New War, I just don't want to do this anymore.  It's not fun.  Nothing about it is REMOTELY fun.  (And "a few hours" really should have been your first hint.  There's no excuse for taking us out of the real game this long.)

The movement, which is the best thing about Warframe, is atrocious.  For this game, it feels like playing a paraplegic.  We can't run properly, or jump, or slide, we can barely move.  The "stealth" sections were torturous, but thankfully you can just follow directions online, and the mechanics are fairly forgiving.  As for the rest, playing a regular human, with no Warframe, no choice of powers, not even a choice of weapons, is not only boring, but is frustrating and stupid.  But I pushed through, because I've been playing this game a long time and I really enjoy the actual game, if I could ever get back to it.

And then I got to these "boss fights."  And they are TERRIBLE.  And I don't want to play anymore.  If I could go back to the regular game, I would.  But life is too short to throw more hours into this unfun torture-machine they have turned their beautiful game into.  Seriously, DE.  I see posts of people complaining about this all the way back when The New War released.  How have you not fixed this?  How many players like me have quit because it's just too long and obnoxious and not fun?  I play video games to enjoy myself.  I'd love to get back to enjoying myself in Warframe.  If you eventually come up with an option to get out of this garbage, I'd gladly take it.  Until then, well, it's a damn shame.  I'll miss Warframe.

I understand the displeasure of having to play non-frame content. Personally, I don't mind it as much, but I try to see it as more of a side quest one has to endure in some games. Locking players out of the main game during the quest remains a baffling decision. I've heard some suggest contacting support and requesting being returned to the main game, but I don't know if that will actually result in being returned to the main game.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

After running this quest five times now, I can say it isn't for everyone. Even if DE gave us our warframe then make it a Grendel mission, people will complain. Why? Because they can. 

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

11 hours ago, ArxDurusMaximus said:

YOU ARE NOT USING A WARFRAME

For what it's worth, the Khal missions (unlocked after completing New War) are also not using a warframe or any of your gear you've earnt over the last 7 years. Which has also caused considerable mixed response. At least for the New War, it's a pretty simple one-and-done quest. The bosses require a small amount of timing, but they're otherwise pretty straightforward. Just getting the timing down to avoid being hit, and pop off some shots in-between (don't worry about tying to get those perfect charged shots, it's not worth it), takes maybe a couple of minutes for each.

Notably, as you've come to the forums and posted in General discussion, most of the responses will not be remotely sympathetic.

You could simply preserve and complete the quest (and ignore the Khal missions) and you could be back to playing "normal" Warframe. The choice is entirely yours of course. 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, ReddyDisco said:

There is a warning before starting new war, there are multiple videos about the gameplay on youtube, it's not like it's new, you had every hint about what to expect from it. well gl out there

Not really his problem. He took the warnings seriously. He just finds the boss fights so atrocious, he doesn't want to continue supporting any game where they continue to exist

[SmokinDice]

all I can say is that this was the most warframe and most fun experience I had in the last halve decade in warframe. it was an amazing experience, it had so much flavor of the old warframe where we didn't one shot every end boss in a 2 minute mission. I loved every second of it.

[LostImbecile]

I'd say try at it again after a month or so, I also quit initially when I got into the boss fights, but after I calmed down, they seemed a lot less frustrating and I could finish them after a couple tries. It's probably because you just had to go through so many terrible sections that you hoped would be the end of it, only to end up in something worse

[EdinaMonsoon]

it's a few hours, just suck it up and do it and you'll be back to regular warframe quickly

[Kaggelos]

A matter of tastes i guess, for me it was my favorite quest, even more so than the second dream.

I say give it another go.

Its really worth it ^^

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Welp. Not everyone survives a war. I guess Ballas won in your character's timeline. 

As for non-frame gameplay. Right now we only have 2 solutions to put an end to this growing trend of non-warframe gameplay.

1. Damage Attenuation on EVERYTHING

This creates content that isn't immediately deleted, makes bosses actual bosses, and slows the game down.

However, many players dislike this as they feel "robbed" of their power. On the flipside...they also get upset when a boss dies in an instant so...pick your poison.

Or...

2. Nerf everything

Mods and Stats mainly. Nerf them down, and standardize stats across the board.

Nothing goes about 100%, no multi-level crits, no crazy 1 billion damage builds. 

Now enemy count can be reduced, enemy AI can be improved, and players can no longer just face roll content. They now have to use cover, dodge, and fight. 

This path keeps everyone's gear relevant (as you'll always be slightly stronger than the enemies) however, enemies will 100% be more of a threat and now DE can make content and not have to solve the #1 largest issue they face:

"How do we prevent this from being instantly cleared/one shot?"

[ArxDurusMaximus]

Apart from the couple dismissive posts, I'd like to really thank the many of you who gave thoughtful responses.  To those who simply disagree with me about the quest, I literally started my post by acknowledging that I've read some people loved it.  If you loved it good for you, but don't pretend it's not completely different from the regular gameplay.

tabernacl:  I did not finish.  As I said, I got to the first boss fight, gave it a dozen attempts or so, and then hung it up.  At that point I was on my second play session, HOURS into this unfun slog, and it's just not worth the time.  And I was aware that this was only the first one of at least three bosses, which are themselves just a setup for whatever big boss will come later, plus any other intermediate bosses, and I'm not even halfway through The New War.  Obviously I read online the strategies for beating the bosses, but they must have been changed, because the tactics didn't work.  I could go into detail, but I'm sure all I'd hear on here is "git gud," which has never been helpful to anyone in the history of the world.

Silligoose:  Why we we have to "endure" things for video games we're allegedly playing for fun?  And if we are "enduring" things, how many hours is a reasonable amount?  That's pretty much my point.  I hated some of the previous non-frame quest content (The Second Dream stands out in my memory, though I might be confusing it.  The one where you have to hike the injured operator SO SLOWLY up a snowy hill to a big fight, and if you die you start at the bottom of the hill again and it takes 2 minutes just to get back to the fight, over and over and over again), but ultimately the content was short, and if you got tired of it you could go back to the real game.

(PSN)jaggerwanderer:  Yes, some people will complain about anything.  I've stuck with DE on this one since 2015, through thick and thin, so I don't think "some people will complain about anything" is a meaningful answer to my problems with The New War.  I also don't think it's much of a reach to say that what most people love about the game is the Warframes and Weapons, and how beautiful it looks (particularly all the customization) and how beautifully and freely you can move.  When you take all of that away, you're taking away what people play the game for.

(PSN)iuvenilis:  If The New War were a "pretty simple one-and-done quest," we wouldn't be having this discussion.  As my post noted, I was already HOURS into it, and on the 6th or 7th quest out of like 15?  I do appreciate your acknowledgement that posting on the forums was not likely to get a sympathetic response, and I'll reiterated that I appreciate all the posts like yours that were thoughtful, even if you disagree with me.

TARINunit9:  Thank you for pointing out to the illiterate that I'd already addressed that I'd read the warning banner, avoided it for a while, and then decided to chance it.  Again, it's not that I'm mad they're making content that I don't personally enjoy.  Not everything is for everyone.  It's that it's SO LONG, and you're locked into it, and once you start you can't even get back to the regular game.

SmokinDice:  As I said in the first line of my second paragraph, I know some people liked it.  I'm glad you did.  But I think you're being disingenuous when you say it's the "most Warframe" part of Warframe in the last decade, when there weren't even any Warframes in it.  When people play Warframe, what are they doing?  Sure, for tiny little slices they're dipping into the lore, but for 99.999% of the time, they're jumping around in Warframes shooting guns or swinging melee.  That's what the game is, with occasional tiny slices of story.  So to say that this kind of thing is the actual game, and not the 99.999% that people actually play, is pretty ridiculous.

LostImbecile:  You may be right.  Maybe I'll get bored with my other games in a few months, and miss Warframe as I have in the past, and perhaps there's a chance I'll make another attempt at slogging through this unfun garbage to get back to being able to play Warframe.  I have to say I kind of doubt it, because these fights will only get harder and more frustrating the longer I've been out of the game and away from the mechanics, but you never know.

Kaggelos:  Once again, I acknowledged that I know some people liked it.  The complaint isn't that they created something I don't like.  The complaint is that they created something that is completely unlike the regular game (fine), is many hours long even assuming you can get through it (not at all fine), and it locks you into it and won't even let you play the regular game once you're stuck in it (game-breaking, and the reason I've quit).

(PSN)Zero_029:  I am clearly missing something.  I don't understand how these things relate to non-Warframe content.  To me the simply solution to non-Warframe content is to make it brief or optional, as it has been in the past.  Either create content for your game called Warframe where people can use the Warframes they love, or if you're going to force them out of their Frames, don't do it for long periods, just give them the OPTION to do stuff out of their Frames if they want to.  It seemed to work in the past.  But the problem is really worse than that.  Not only did they take away your Warframe, they also took away your Primaries, your Secondaries, your Melees, your Archwings, your Companions, your Mods...  They literally took away everything that makes Warframe Warframe, and replaced it with some other game set in the same universe.  And again, if you do this briefly, it's fine.  If you do it for hours on end that people can't get out of...  Well, that's why this post exists.


Anyway, thanks for the replies.  It's a darn shame, because I've really enjoyed this game over the years, but I do play video games for fun, and while I can tolerate having to slog a little to get past occasional unfun parts, the multiple hours that this New War nonsense occupies while locking you out of the real game is just way too much and a terrible decision.

[vanaukas]

4 minutes ago, ArxDurusMaximus said:

Anyway, thanks for the replies.  It's a darn shame, because I've really enjoyed this game over the years, but I do play video games for fun, and while I can tolerate having to slog a little to get past occasional unfun parts, the multiple hours that this New War nonsense occupies while locking you out of the real game is just way too much and a terrible decision.

You are literally in the final combat segment without warframe. To put it even more simple, have a meme

[slava.ukraine]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb ArxDurusMaximus:

I was on a hiatus from playing for a little while (after I hit MR30 and maxed out everything available for like the 4th time), and just came back last month.  Started cleaning up the updated Railjack stuff, picking up the new Primes, hunting the new Sisters, etc.  I put off starting The New War because of the warning that it would take "several hours" and I wouldn't be able to access the regular game during that time.  It sounded pretty awful, for someone who just wants to play and collect everything.  But eventually all that new content hiding behind the quest called to me, so today I broke down and activated the quest.

I know some people like this.  I know because I've read their posts.  But even they admit that this is not Warframe.  The big hint is that YOU ARE NOT USING A WARFRAME.  This is some other game I'm being forced to play in order to get back to playing Warframe.  Okay, some of the previous quests have felt like that as well.  But they were all relatively short, and you could quit them at any time and go back to regular missions.  A few hours into The New War, I just don't want to do this anymore.  It's not fun.  Nothing about it is REMOTELY fun.  (And "a few hours" really should have been your first hint.  There's no excuse for taking us out of the real game this long.)

The movement, which is the best thing about Warframe, is atrocious.  For this game, it feels like playing a paraplegic.  We can't run properly, or jump, or slide, we can barely move.  The "stealth" sections were torturous, but thankfully you can just follow directions online, and the mechanics are fairly forgiving.  As for the rest, playing a regular human, with no Warframe, no choice of powers, not even a choice of weapons, is not only boring, but is frustrating and stupid.  But I pushed through, because I've been playing this game a long time and I really enjoy the actual game, if I could ever get back to it.

And then I got to these "boss fights."  And they are TERRIBLE.  And I don't want to play anymore.  If I could go back to the regular game, I would.  But life is too short to throw more hours into this unfun torture-machine they have turned their beautiful game into.  Seriously, DE.  I see posts of people complaining about this all the way back when The New War released.  How have you not fixed this?  How many players like me have quit because it's just too long and obnoxious and not fun?  I play video games to enjoy myself.  I'd love to get back to enjoying myself in Warframe.  If you eventually come up with an option to get out of this garbage, I'd gladly take it.  Until then, well, it's a damn shame.  I'll miss Warframe.

What bothered me the most was that map design is lousy in many places.
maps design is a difficult art and it's not primarily about modern graphics! Maps must be understandable and players should intuitively know where to go. but here it was an absolute epic fail in many places!
examples would be:
the map where you have to dodge those weird things or else you'll get this weird mask...
and the map where you have to open doors left and right and climb somewhere up after the elevator...

I would never have found the solution without youtube. omg!
who's supposed to have fun with that? That's frustrating and nobody wants to play something like that!
the same with khal missions too. constantly found 4/5 of mats and without youtube you don't even know how to defeat mini bosses.

pff... well I don't play that!

[ArxDurusMaximus]

17 minutes ago, slava.ukraine said:

What bothered me the most was that map design is lousy in many places.
maps design is a difficult art and it's not primarily about modern graphics! Maps must be understandable and players should intuitively know where to go. but here it was an absolute epic fail in many places!
examples would be:
the map where you have to dodge those weird things or else you'll get this weird mask...
and the map where you have to open doors left and right and climb somewhere up after the elevator...

I would never have found the solution without youtube. omg!
who's supposed to have fun with that? That's frustrating and nobody wants to play something like that!
the same with khal missions too. constantly found 4/5 of mats and without youtube you don't even know how to defeat mini bosses.

pff... well I don't play that!

Yeah, I was already done with it before I got to those stealth sections, so I just looked it up online and followed directions.  Even with the directions I found some of it a bit confusing, so I can only imagine how it might have gone without.  Sad to hear that continued in the new mission types (if I'm understanding what Khal Missions are).    I do appreciate that DE is constantly trying to do new things, I just want it to be optional, like Archwing was when it first came out (and still needed a lot of work), or Railjack.  Making the entire game lock to this new and completely different thing they've come up with isn't a good idea.

[ArxDurusMaximus]

50 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

You are literally in the final combat segment without warframe. To put it even more simple, have a meme

I don't see how I could have been in the final combat segment if I was only on the first of 3 bosses, and less than halfway through The New War.  Please share.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

10 minutes ago, ArxDurusMaximus said:

I don't see how I could have been in the final combat segment if I was only on the first of 3 bosses, and less than halfway through The New War.  Please share.

Since you don't seem to care about a minor spoiler then you'll only fight two of them the third you'll fight with your Warframe 

[vanaukas]

Just now, ArxDurusMaximus said:

I don't see how I could have been in the final combat segment if I was only on the first of 3 bosses, and less than halfway through The New War.  Please share.

Ok, I'll go "full" spoilers:

Spoiler

You beat the first boss (any of the 3, order doesn't matter), and give a cristal to Lotus. Lotus gain some force and acts kinda "feral", but nothing serious.

You beat the second boss (again, order doesn't matter) and you give the archon shard to the lotus again... But this time she goes full feral and attacks you. Then you have a really small segment where you need to "fight" the feral lotus (you can't win, keep running), and then a cutscene happens.

Then you are in control of the Operator in the zariman again... And something that I don't want to spoil happens and you get back the warframe you choose and all your operator powers from the school you had equipped.

You'll eventually face the third archon but this time as a warframe... And you'll understand why they didn't allow them for the first 2 bosses.

Then the rest is pretty much straight forward, you will never loose your warframe again until a very specific interaction on the final boss fight, which are temporal and only done to force you to deal with those mirror-like things full of kuva as operator, afer destroying one of those mirrors you can use your warframe again in the fight. You have to repeat that process a few times and the quest is done. 

Mind you, it's kinda long to reach that part but you won't feel it, because you are in full control of your preferred gear. The most annoying thing for me was completing the optional "rescue the ostrons" in each segment, which gaves you nothing in return. Since you aren't enjoying it, I recommend you to skip all secondary objectives if you are willing to give it a try again, because they really serve no purpose on story or prize or wathever. I did them all tho and I kinda regret it, because that extended the missions times by a lot, specially inside a very mystic place we've never been before new war.

My advice: Look on youtube the 3 boss fights as drifter and pick the 2 more easy for you. We can also give you tips on how to beat each archon. Leave the nastiest one of the 3 for the end, so you'll enjoy it better, because that's the one "getting the short stick". If you went with a dagger that joke may be too literal.

It's not necessary to beat them on the same session, everytime you change of "scene" (it's a very teatrical quest) your progress is saved (an icon can be seen AFAIK) and that is apparently one of the reasons on why you can't opt out from the quest... That and a few very drastic changes to the starchart and open world areas. 

Don't put 7 years behind just for this, the new content is awesome and it keeps getting better. Kahl missions have some juicy rewards (you get a currency for a very unique shop) but you can do them at your pace or just ignore them, your call.

 

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, ArxDurusMaximus said:

Silligoose:  Why we we have to "endure" things for video games we're allegedly playing for fun?  And if we are "enduring" things, how many hours is a reasonable amount?  That's pretty much my point.  I hated some of the previous non-frame quest content (The Second Dream stands out in my memory, though I might be confusing it.  The one where you have to hike the injured operator SO SLOWLY up a snowy hill to a big fight, and if you die you start at the bottom of the hill again and it takes 2 minutes just to get back to the fight, over and over and over again), but ultimately the content was short, and if you got tired of it you could go back to the real game.

How much one is willing to endure depends on the player.

[ArxDurusMaximus]

31 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

Don't put 7 years behind just for this, the new content is awesome and it keeps getting better. Kahl missions have some juicy rewards (you get a currency for a very unique shop) but you can do them at your pace or just ignore them, your call.

Didn't want to quote your entire post, but thank you for that information.  Somehow in all the stuff I'd read through, no one had actually mentioned that.  Might be because they were trying to save the spoilers, but honestly, if people are searching around online for how to skip past this stuff, they're probably not worried about the spoilers.  For me, once I'm through and back to the regular game, I can watch a video of someone else slogging through on my other screen to get any lore I missed.  Because I do like the lore, I just hate how they're feeding it to me.

You're the first person who's actually made me start to reconsider.  Eh, maybe in a week or two I'll feel like giving it another shot, knowing I just have to plow through two levels and two boss fights that'll take me 50 attempts each.  I guess we'll see.  But seriously, thanks for the info.

[ArxDurusMaximus]

1 minute ago, Silligoose said:

How much one is willing to endure depends on the player.

Absolutely.  It's just unfortunate that we're forced to "endure" things in the first place, when we're here for fun.  Either way, thanks for the thoughtful replies.