Stop throwing hate at DE because they're doing something new.

[PKBeam]

It seems like every time we have a new update these forums are destined to be filled with threads along the lines of "I hate this because it's different".

The Drifter combat isn't bad. It just feels like it because we're used to the extreme mobility and power of a Warframe. Traditional Warframe combat doesn't scale well with difficulty; if you make all the numbers bigger you'll just polarise the situation into "use this exploit" or "die in one second". Drifter combat is revised to be able to scale horizontally, and it works precisely because we aren't overpowered anymore.

Also, there's nothing wrong with the randomised loadouts Duviri presents to you. You don't even have to use them most of the time - Duviri is primarily Drifter gameplay, and the Orowyrm fight just hands you your normal archgun. The only time you have to actually engage with the loadout is Circuit, and you have so many choices between Warframe, primary, secondary and melee that most of the time you'll end up with something that you can use. Plus you have decrees that can sometimes carry a run by themselves.

Steel Path isn't meant to be easy. There are surprisingly many viable weapons out there, so if you're only capable of using a small handful of them to survive then it's silly to complain when the game's hard mode (for experienced players!) challenges you to experiment with others. Still too hard? Pick up three other squad members. You just need one person with a good frame/weapon and you're set.

Plus, SP Duviri doesn't lock out any content except Incarnon adapters for niche off-meta weapons - and if you're going for those then surely you would appreciate the variety the game is trying to showcase here. 

Finally, a lot of people are fond of saying "Duviri isn't Warframe". Frankly, this is a lazy non-argument. This game is 10 years old! There are plenty of newer live service types out there that have issues with stale gameplay/content, and the only way to avoid that is to innovate. Warframe isn't just one or two things that can be neatly put into a box like other games; it's been constantly changing and evolving ever since it released, and Duviri is just another in a long series of steps.

That said, DE has always had problems with small-scale implementation. As usual, there are some severe bugs and minor balance/QoL woes. For example, I'd weight SP Circuit weapon appearance rates by disposition (or something similar), some of the content is just a touch too grindy, and the Drifter's auto-target system works about as well as every other auto-target system. But on the macro scale, Duviri is a refreshing update that proves DE can still innovate.

-----

Addendum: a lot of people have been lamenting that Duviri makes their builds and loadouts worthless. This is not true. You can still use your own mod configuration on weapons and frames that you own. It's still your build, your frame, your weapon. Duviri is just forcing you to mix it up.

[(PSN)MartiniBaby23]

For me the problem i have is doing the undercroft 3 times , in the duviri experience . And the missions itself of the undercroft, for me it breaks the engagement on the duviri with the drifter, is like i have to recalibrate my brain to the controls everytime i get out of the undercroft . 

[Waeleto]

Praising bad game design isn't the way 💀

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I don't disagree with the sentiment or the intent I perceive behind the sentiment. Also not to suggest you are bothered or frustrated by how negative a lot are being, but if you are frustrated or bothered by it... Yeah, I get that too. I will say this though, to possibly add to your point. A game like Warframe that has existed as long as it has? Being a FTP that has changed a lot over that time/using a FTP model? That has a lot of different attractions for different people for different reasons? Its yeah... going to struggle under a lot of negativity sometimes. Just because a lot of people don't often think too critically about what a game, what they enjoy and what they should expect necessarily. Then those that have valid but narrow or strict preferences about what they like or want, will get disappointed, but they may have too much investment or experience with the game, have burn out... Its really easy for the game to annoy them, offend them, bother them, without the game really having to do much. Strong negative feelings bring a desire to vent those negative feelings... Mean while people having more neutral, middling or positive experiences, generally don't have the same urge to express them the same way...

Though, if you wait a few weeks, a few months, surveys or polls or threads asking about the update overall? Tend to be more positive and neutral than negative. That happens as often too. Not always, but often. Last example I remember was Angels of Zariman update. I really enjoyed it from the beginning, even though I had a few bugs and loss some progress etc Which can be super annoying. It also had issues, but overall on the whole, I enjoyed it and viewed it as a personal top 5 update. Forums were quite negative though. At least to my perception, can even remember some people making threads about "worst update ever". Few weeks later mood and views tended t change, or maybe the super negative people posted less, but also a fan made survey with a decent turn out, had a majority being positive over that update. 

If people feel sincere hate, I think they should be allowed to express that, to an extent. Personally I just wish, criticisms and arguments, whether positive or negative were more considered by all. Oh and feedback too, some feedback... is just not great. Framing is important. Like people often say "worst update ever" but you ask them what their fav updates were, and what changes they would make and their answers are things that seem like they would be even more unpopular or just unrealistic. So personally, I don't mind hate being thrown, as long as you know, it has some self awareness and consideration behind it. Though hate is often more convenient, easier and faster to express than constructive criticism so you know, and fair enough. I still haven't had time to start Duviri yet, if I spent less time talking about the game... I could be playing it and finding out whether I should be feeling angry or not, or something. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

I'm not too mad at Duviri's gameplay, the randomization or how different it is from typical Warframe gameplay.

I don't mind, I have my Warframe gameplay already, a little curve from the norm doesn't offend me.

 

I'm mad that DE keeps promising things and never deliver...this open world was supposed to be a lot more populated than the other 3 (4 if you count Zariman as OW) 

there was supposed to be enemy variety but it seems we only fight those same types of dax everytime. 

call me melodramatic but It kind of breaks my heart...because I know how connected DE was with the community.

but first new war and now this...it just seems like more lies and empty promises to me.

 

if Rebecca hasn't said duviri is more alive than other open world, if they haven't overpromised for over 4 years straight I promise you i wouldn't have been upset, and i would've been very content with what we have.

Don't lie to me...I can't stand that! 

[Circle_of_Psi]

49 minutes ago, (PSN)MartiniBaby23 said:

For me the problem i have is doing the undercroft 3 times , in the duviri experience . And the missions itself of the undercroft, for me it breaks the engagement on the duviri with the drifter, is like i have to recalibrate my brain to the controls everytime i get out of the undercroft . 

Yeah, this is why I hate the Undercroft, I want it removed or have a choice not to do it, I rather do the other tasks, like Fishing or other side stuff, the undercroft needs to be a side activity, not a requirement 

[(PSN)MartiniBaby23]

il y a 3 minutes, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

Yeah, this is why I hate the Undercroft, I want it removed or have a choice not to do it, I rather do the other tasks, like Fishing or other side stuff, the undercroft needs to be a side activity, not a requirement 

Is easy fixable the portal should be always open if u want to enter no need to add on the missions of duviri experience. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)MartiniBaby23 said:

Is easy fixable the portal should be always open if u want to enter no need to add on the missions of duviri experience. 

Exactly!

I'm here for the Duviri Experience, not the Warframe and since they kinda act like non-pickable bounties, just remove it from the bounty list and maybe add something else extra, like "Go Fish" or do an extra chest or to, etc

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

25 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

but first new war and now this...it just seems like more lies and empty promises to me.

 

Not going to lie, it hurts a lot. For New War I really did expect a real war that affected the player no matter where in the story they might have been.

[Marvelous_A]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

if Rebecca hasn't said duviri is more alive than other open world, if they haven't overpromised for over 4 years straight I promise you i wouldn't have been upset, and i would've been very content with what we have.

DE don't know how to do an open world. DE didn't make any open world, PoE, OV, CD, NONE of them are "open world", they are just really huge landscapes with some randomly generated missions. Essentially they are the same to legacy warframe dungeons, except the map isn't randomly generated. So I never expect a living open world from the update because DE simply doesn't know how to make one.

Edit: Spelling

[(PSN)MartiniBaby23]

il y a 11 minutes, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

Exactly!

I'm here for the Duviri Experience, not the Warframe and since they kinda act like non-pickable bounties, just remove it from the bounty list and maybe add something else extra, like "Go Fish" or do an extra chest or to, etc

And lore wise makes even more sense , after we finish the duviri Quest the portal of the undercroft should be always open, we got control.

[KernelWizard]

41 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Yeah, this is why I hate the Undercroft, I want it removed or have a choice not to do it, I rather do the other tasks, like Fishing or other side stuff, the undercroft needs to be a side activity, not a requirement 

Super agree on this. Any and all undercroft portions sucks for real man. It's like normal missions outside Duviri but much more boring and much less fun. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, PKBeam said:

Stop throwing hate at DE because they're trying something new

this is exactly the problem though: they spend so much time trying new things, they totally neglect what they already have. I'm all for trying new things, I wouldn't still be here 8 years later if I wasn't but by GOD they need to give the core of this game - the actual warframe content - some more love, and improve the myriad of things we already have. I'm hoping that once Duviri is out the way we might finally get this.

3 hours ago, PKBeam said:

The Drifter combat isn't bad.

yes it is, it really is, please take off the copium mask. it's janky, the targeting is whack, and it's a very poor imitation of others at best. if you think this system is good, you must not have played Ghost of Tsushima, God of War 2018 etc, because they have this style of combat done WAY better; fluid, streamlined and rewarding: drifter melee is currently none of these things, which is why I mainly practice the art of "pew pew jutsu"(using sirocco only).

3 hours ago, PKBeam said:

Also, there's nothing wrong with the randomised loadouts Duviri presents to you.

depends on the individual: for me personally it's fine, because I have nearly every weapon and all of them are good builds I made to be steel Path viable. but for a lower MR who has less choice of weapons, and less mods, it can seem brutal. so despite being at the very least comfortable, if not outright powerful with whatever loadout I get thrown, I sympathize with those who haven't put in the work on their weapons and frames: that's the only way Circuit is ever gonna get easier for you, is if you put the work in.

3 hours ago, PKBeam said:

Steel Path isn't meant to be easy.

then it fails in it's intended purpose, at least for those of us who as I said, have put the time and effort into our builds. there was a time I dreaded the prospect of fighting level 100-200 enemies, now I welcome them. 

3 hours ago, PKBeam said:

Finally, a lot of people are fond of saying "Duviri isn't Warframe".

because it's not: it's attached to the game called warframe, but it's radically different from the traditional warframe experience, and it doesn't help that it comes from a long line of "experimentation" by DE. now I like Railjack, and the Mechs, so not all of these different mechanics are bad, but many people are getting tired of being taken away from the core warframe experience, and I'm beginning to feel it too. you can only distract someone so many times before they remember what they were originally trying to do, and DE have brought our attention away from the frames themselves for a long time now: and given the state some of them are in (Hydroid, Inaros etc.), it's really starting to show.

at the end of the day, your post is white-knighting, and that's not a term I usually throw around on here, but I call things as I see them. if you want to defend this update so vehemently, be my guest; just know that you're HEAVILY outnumbered by those who can see the glaringly obvious flaws in this new content.

[Veridian]

But...but...

How will I then leech likes by throwing a tantrum which may or may not be a coppy of some streamer's rage bait and use vague buzz words like unplayable, failure and uninspired to prove my undisputable point?
Or how will I low key insult those who like it by comparing my whining to critical thinking and not being one of the sheeple?

HOW I ask!

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, Waeleto said:

Praising bad game design isn't the way 💀

Another vague platitude that doesn't mean anything. 

There's no game design manual that has to be followed for maximum player fun 100% guaranteed.

[MutoManiac]

I’m starting to like the chaos. I’ll hit my 1000 revive achievement pretty quick with Duviri 😉

Yesterday I got my main with a great weapon and you get a feeling of euphoria cause it changes everything. Too bad it wasn’t in SP, but here’s hoping that happens again.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, KernelWizard said:

Super agree on this. Any and all undercroft portions sucks for real man. It's like normal missions outside Duviri but much more boring and much less fun. 

[--END--Rikutatis]

I was already expecting this update would get a lot of hate because it's a mix of Drifter gameplay and arsenal restrictions. I didn't play long enough to form my opinion on it yet, but it seems very fun so far.

Plus the last two updates were exclusively Star Chart hardcore warframe gameplay updating survival and defense respectively, along with pity system reward shops. I think players could really cut DE some slack even if they hate drifter gameplay. It's not like they are completely neglecting the core gameplay. 

[Yamazuki]

5 hours ago, PKBeam said:

The Drifter combat isn't bad. It just feels like it because we're used to the extreme mobility and power of a Warframe.

Its subpar state has nothing to do with power or mobility. The melee combat is inferior to the games DE is trying to copy, and the earlier hotfix made it even worse unless you're someone who enjoys using your keyboard for melee inputs. 

Melee attacking and block/parry feels subpar, and enemies don't even attack that often making the counterattack aspect pointless, on top of it not really even doing much damage making it feel unrewarding despite there being a 'risk' associated with even trying to do it.

5 hours ago, PKBeam said:

we aren't overpowered anymore.

Non-SP enemies are a joke and die fast.

In SP, you can essentially permanently cc the enemies, or make it so they actually never hit you. If you're in a group and someone dies, there is no risk to revive because DE kindly provided the totally balanced mechanic known as stealth for free.

You don't have to be one shotting enemies for there to be a lack of balance, an enemy could take 5 hours to kill, but if they can't even kill  you then you're still overpowered regardless.

We also have the decrees that are meant to make us overpowered, with some aura effects that kill enemies for you.

[Waeleto]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Another vague platitude that doesn't mean anything. 

There's no game design manual that has to be followed for maximum player fun 100% guaranteed.

So do you think throwing away all of our builds that we spent time and forma on SPECIFICALLY to make them SP viable is fun or good ? I'm fine with randomization when it comes to the duviri experience but when we talk about endless sp circuit it CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be randomized and before you say "if you don't like it don't play it" I'd have done that if they didn't lock incarnon adapters behind it

[Hypernaut1]

I've come to realize that the haters are part of the balance, yin to the yang, of Warframe fandom. They can't help what they do, but they play just as much as those that are satisfied. Thus proving every update successful

Imagine opening a successful restaurant and having half the guest go "you're a bad chef, you can't cook and food is terrible! I ate everything off my plate and I'll be here next week! " Time after time.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, (PSN)MartiniBaby23 said:

For me the problem i have is doing the undercroft 3 times , in the duviri experience . And the missions itself of the undercroft, for me it breaks the engagement on the duviri with the drifter, is like i have to recalibrate my brain to the controls everytime i get out of the undercroft . 

My main issue is the undercroft missions are boring af.

[TeaHands]

I'm just amazed there are claims of the world being empty. There's minigames with resource and decree rewards, wandering groups of enemies that I think escalate with the more decrees you get, puzzles that apparently get you a new weapon, and there definitely should be more npcs in the world besides wildlife, but the npcs I did find generally had some weird things to say or are just straight up pondering. Also interacting with the wildlife should give us some fun little boosts like increased speed or knockdown enemies while rolling. And there's a lot of detail in the world itself.

I am liking Drifter Combat the more I use it. Theres only one thing I would change, switch out that god awful roll with a short dash. It would make maneuvering in battle a lot smoother. 

So far this really doesn't feel like Elden Ring lite to me, it feels like a small scale Breath of the Wild with powercreep, but it's more of a powerjog cuz you can build up power pretty quickly.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

New does not mean good.  Effort and work do not mean good.  Just because they worked hard and they thought it was worth being excited over does not in any way shape or form mean that the players owe them reciprocation.  If people don't like it, then to them, it is not good.  There is no arguing this.  People have a right to perspective.  Some people's perspective is that this update is a dumpster fire.  They are entitled to that opinion, and just because you want the warm fuzzies of being excited with the devs, does not take that right away.  Positive opinions are just as valid as negative ones, but just because you like something doesn't mean you get to tell others to stop hating it.  Like it all you want.  Others will share their opinions the same as you.  Telling people not to share negative feedback just so the devs won't feel bad isn't the way.  Some of us were saying these systems were a bad idea from day 1 of their reveal.  They went with it anyway, and doing so is a risk where the consequences are people not liking what they made.

[Silligoose]

23 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Imagine opening a successful restaurant and having half the guess go "you're a bad chef, you can't cook and food is terrible! I ate everything off my plate and I'll be here next week! " Time after time.

That's not what the "haters" are doing though, is it? Try again.