Why should I radshare for more rare drops?

[SkittyChips]

I feel like I'm always missing something whenever I hear other people talk about why radshare is more effective; I've always opened my radiant relics solo to save time. It's always been my understanding that even though being in a party where everybody has a radiant relic increases the odds of somebody getting a rare drop from their relic (10% solo vs 34% in radshare), the odds of a particular individual (let's say yourself) getting a rare drop from a radiant relic is still always 10% per run. In other words, if you have 4 solo players as well as 1 squad of 4 players simultaneously run radiant relics, shouldn't both "sets" of players each collectively earn the same amount of rare drops on average and thus the average rare drop yield per person still be the same? After all, I would presume that the relic drops are rolled for each player independently regardless of what party they are in, right? Going back to myself, wouldn't I *personally* get the same number of rare drops (on average) running all of my radiant relics solo vs running all of my radiant relics in a radshare? 

As an example, let's say that 8 people (specifically 4 clanmates and 4 randoms each with the same number of radiant relics) want to grind for a particular rare drop. The 4 clanmates run a radshare for all of their relics while the 4 randoms grind solo for all of their relics. After all of the relics have been opened, shouldn't each of the 8 players receive the same number of rare drops on average?

[16Bitman]

Example:

You have 1 radiant relic.

You find 3 others with the same one.

You all open it in the same run.

You now get to choose from 4 opened relics at once.

You saved time grinding relics, you saved your void traces, you saved time just doing 1 run instead of 4 runs (minus recruiting time).

[Zakkhar]

It's is very simple math. In radshare you participate in opening additional 3 individual relics (independent rolls). If you just want one thing it is is optimal and fast. You need 3 less runs, 3 less relics and 300 less traces to open same amount of relics. Only problem is that if 2 rares drop you cannot choose both.

If you want more things there is the "stagger" option (requires trust). Where people take turns in opening the relic, while others open random relic of the same class. It still lets you participate in opening additional 3 relics you did not farm or spent 300 traces. It is slower (and requires trust), but you can choose multiple drops from the same relic (up to 4).

Basically in order to get the same result solo you would need 4 times the relics and traces.

Someone did numbers on this if you are interested: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Honeydrew/radshare_technique_-_numbers_comparison

PS: I have seen people opening rads in public groups. Guess sharing is caring.

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Zakkhar

[sunderthefirmament]

20 minutes ago, SkittyChips said:

I feel like I'm always missing something whenever I hear other people talk about why radshare is more effective; I've always opened my radiant relics solo to save time. It's always been my understanding that even though being in a party where everybody has a radiant relic increases the odds of somebody getting a rare drop from their relic (10% solo vs 34% in radshare), the odds of a particular individual (let's say yourself) getting a rare drop from a radiant relic is still always 10% per run. In other words, if you have 4 solo players as well as 1 squad of 4 players simultaneously run radiant relics, shouldn't both "sets" of players each collectively earn the same amount of rare drops on average and thus the average rare drop yield per person still be the same? After all, I would presume that the relic drops are rolled for each player independently regardless of what party they are in, right? Going back to myself, wouldn't I *personally* get the same number of rare drops (on average) running all of my radiant relics solo vs running all of my radiant relics in a radshare? 

As an example, let's say that 8 people (specifically 4 clanmates and 4 randoms each with the same number of radiant relics) want to grind for a particular rare drop. The 4 clanmates run a radshare for all of their relics while the 4 randoms grind solo for all of their relics. After all of the relics have been opened, shouldn't each of the 8 players receive the same number of rare drops on average?

Do you understand that when you open relics in a group (or with randoms) you can choose whichever reward you want from what you or other players rolled?

[Exxion]

Per relic, the expected number of rare items is actually higher for four separate one-relic runs than for a single run with four relics. But this isn't relevant to a given person unless they are providing all four relics. Most of the time, in a radshare, each person brings their own relic to a given run. Per run, and thus per each of your relics, radsharing dramatically increases the expected number of rares.

Four solo runs each have an expected value of 0.1 rare items, for a total expected value of 0.4 rare items.

A single four-relic run has a probability of at least one person rolling a rare of 34.39%, and since everyone gets to choose which item to take, gives an expected value of 0.3439 rare items for everyone in the run.

However, running a solo mission four times costs you four relics, while running a single four-person radshare only costs you one relic. Thus, for each of your relics, you get over three times as many rare items on average by doing radshares.

[Drachnyn]

If 4 people each run solo and one of their relic drops the rare drop then one person has the rare drop.

If these 4 people radshare instead and one of their relics gives the rare drop then 4 people have the rare drop.

This sounds like you have never done a relic outside of solo.

[Pakaku]

It is mainly just a time-saver. Four people can play a mission to get the same relic. Then four people can do a Void mission to open four relics. Compare that to the amout of time it takes if you soloed for four relics and then played four missions to unlock all four.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Pakaku

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

1 hour ago, SkittyChips said:

clanmates

If you really want to increase total yield, you should Round Robin Radshare (old concept, no one does it anymore)

basically, for each round, Only One of you equips the Rare, all others equip junk.

Take turns opening only a single Rare at a time.

 everyone grabs it when it does unveil, thus duplicating the part x3 more for the cost of the fodder they brought instead of the Rare relic.

 

-as you have correctly surmised, yes, the odds of a desired part unveiling is constant.

People share Simultaneously instead of Round Robin, because you Just Can't Trust people to actually pony up when it comes their turn....

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

i would do public void fissures, but i am on switch...

[Hobie-wan]

1 hour ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 instead of Round Robin, because you Just Can't Trust people to actually pony up when it comes their turn....

That's the rad-stagger as mentioned above. It isn't done super often, but people still do it. Granted it's been at non-prime hours and only done occasionally, but I've never had someone skip out in a group I've participated in. If people are more patient to get a full stagger group together, they're more likely to be honest and stick around for 2 or 4 stagger runs even if the first run gets the gold drop. It's still more chances for more gold drops.

[Rawbeard]

you know you can pick someone else's relic result, right?

[RLanzinger]

To @SkittyChips : As you and most people said

• Radsharing is usually for the the same relic to get one specific :  (1-10%)⁴= 34,39% Instead of 10%
• Random squad does give the same amount or rare relics IF everyone use radiant... which is rare.

There is another reason for not Rad Sharing :

• Player with lots of Vaulted Relics can rarely Rad Share... so I don't.
• Rad Share give you less Void Traces than Random squad :  this is the true matter.

For examples, I often run Eso to have Radiants one and open them with random squad :

1. Statistically I will have more Rare Relics that others
2. ... they will more oftenly choose my reward (Me at 10% vs 3 players at 2% = 5,88% )
3. ... I'll get more void traces (5 / player )
4. I will have a bit more Void traces to open the relics of my choices

Basically :

• RadShare = Hunting Rare relics when you have few of them (From Maroo). <= More efficient
• Random squad = Hunting Void Traces and Relics when you have lots of them. <= Faster n' Lazy

[taiiat]

more Players is always better as long as they're not like basically AFK and never collect their Reactant or complete the Mission.
you literally get more of everything.

Players obviously still choose to play alone sometimes despite that, and that's fine.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Could this be a misunderstanding of statistics and probabilities? Also, just to be super clear, I don't mean that in an insulting way, I personally struggle a lot with statistics and probabilities myself, and I also find that most people in general can slightly overestimate how well they understand statistics and probabilities. So I personally consider them deceptively complex. Also to be clear, I am just being general, for all I know, you could be extremely proficient and an expert with statistics and probabilities and odds, making an observation about others flawed ideas/perceptions. In which case ignore me. 

If its the former, then there are a very users I know who are great with numbers that will probably chime in, and explain in way that might hopefully make sense, if they haven't already. I'll try my best, but I admit and acknowledge I might be repeating or saying something you may already know and understand, I might be wrong and way off, and so on, disclaimer, disclaimer. Based on what you are suggesting, the variable I think worth emphasising, is the ability in a Rad group, to pick from others. Also, in this context, 34% is quite a lot higher than 10%. I know in some other contexts, that may not seem like that much... Also, and I might struggle a bit to communicate this... but odds don't have memories, which you seem to understand already, (a radiant relic is still always 10% per run) which is accurate and I am not implying otherwise, but then there are like odds, for uh averages? Probabilities of occurrences? Like flipping tails 9 times in a row, doesn't make it a certainty that heads has to happen on the 10th flip, because the odds get stacked, its just that across a number of people flipping coins, its going to be relatively rare for say... the majority of a large number having 10 million flips all be tails. I have to use an extreme and somewhat silly example, because I don't have a good intuitive understanding of such things. 

The way I understand it though, is that in a Rad share, the probability of not getting a rare reward gets rarer and rarer faster than if you are solo. I think. I may be wrong or misunderstanding something important. There is a pretty detailed Wikia page with a lot of related math over Relics, and I know enough to understand some of it, but also there is a lot that makes my brain hurt. You might be interested in it though. The way I generally understand it at current, is that its just far more effective and efficient to rad share. If you run solo Rad, its not that you can just run say 4 times as much to get the same reward, but increasingly much more overall. Mind you, its not like that stops me, half the time I do Relics I am solo, I have a huge stock pile of Relics, and most of the time aren't trying to actually get anything specific. When I do want something specific, its usually brand new Prime items just releases, and so I PUB, which is still not as good as a Rad Share however, I'd make an educated case, that around release, there are generally more people running the same sort of Relics I am, usually, so that can help a bit. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2023-07-15 at 12:06 PM, SkittyChips said:

It's always been my understanding that even though being in a party where everybody has a radiant relic increases the odds of somebody getting a rare drop from their relic (10% solo vs 34% in radshare), the odds of a particular individual (let's say yourself) getting a rare drop from a radiant relic is still always 10% per run.

From this sentence and a few others, I get the impression that you might not understand a key mechanic of doing relic missions in a group: when the mission ends, it shows all 4 items that dropped from everyone's relics, and then everyone in the group gets to choose which of those 4 items they want to go home with.  So if somebody in the group gets the drop you want, that's the same as you getting the drop you want.  Hope this clears things up!