I now understand why people hate the Nihil fight

[AlucardNoir]

Firstly, playing this mission on a keyboard and mouse set up and his attacks are not very telegraphed. Mainly because the camera controls required for this mission are not something require anywhere else in game. This actually reminds me of why I quit Vampir. Camera controls on keyboard and mouse were so bad it wasn't even funny. And default camera positions were worse. First chat with the bartender was had through the beam post. Secondly, WTF is it with these effing shards! why even give me a cross-hair if the shards will just do their thing and go wherever the f the want anyway? Also, I can't help but notice most people saying the fight is easy are on console.

[Kattefjaes]

Given that poor levels of reading comprehension are almost at an epidemic level in this thread, the big complaint isn't that it's too hard- more that it's tedious, buggy and un-fun. It's the opposite of a good boss fight in (for example) a soulslike, where you're thinking "I hope I don't screw up and lose", it's more "I hope the game doesn't screw up and I lose".

Some strategies to mitigate the crappiness of this half-baked encounter:

• Where possible, be towards the front of the platforms, so that any shard he fires has a better chance to land and be picked up.
• When he nods his head, move a meter or two to the side so that the shard misses you and hits the ground to be collected.
• Throwing the shard has more of a vertical arc than you might expect, so aim for the lower half of the crystals.
• Keep jumping between platforms, to spread the loss of surface and keep yourself close to crystals and make hitting them easier.
• The vertical slash needs to be avoided by moving, the horizontal by jumping.
• If a platform goes red then the vertical slash is coming. Jump off the platform, whether you have somewhere to land or not.
• If you don't like your situation, don't be afraid to hurl yourself into the void, you won't lose a life, and will get reset- probably somewhere less annoying.

Take your time, everything moves like custard in this fight for some reason. Trying to rush around will only be frustrating. Additionally, ask yourself if you really need the noggle, since you already did this lame-ass fight once already for the sword, and that was once too many. Personally, I did it again out of sheer stubbornness and to see if it had been improved at all. It's ten minutes of my life I'll never get back- but mostly I'm just disappointed that they didn't improve the encounter mechanically or make it more self-explanatory. It's somewhat shoddy.

On the bright side, at least the subsequent Prelate fight was a lot better than it was at launch, where lamp tick speed used to be tied to framerate, so you had to use a framerate limiter to make the fight work. This time I was able to do it at 144fps without the lamp insta-dying on me. Woo.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Kattefjaes
clarification

[Kattefjaes]

2 minutes ago, AlucardNoir said:

Firstly, playing this mission on a keyboard and mouse set up and his attacks are not very telegraphed. Mainly because the camera controls required for this mission are not something require anywhere else in game. This actually reminds me of why I quit Vampir. Camera controls on keyboard and mouse were so bad it wasn't even funny. And default camera positions were worse. First chat with the bartender was had through the beam post. Secondly, WTF is it with these effing shards! why even give me a cross-hair if the shards will just do their thing and go wherever the f the want anyway? Also, I can't help but notice most people saying the fight is easy are on console.

PvC (Player vs Controls) are a bit of a tradition- witness how clumsy the wanderer is in Duviri, or any version of Kahl Of Duty (probably the most tedious thing in Warframe).

[Slayer-.]

2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

The fight actually does suck but not because of the one shots but because of how frequently nihil shoots the glass projectiles over the edge into the void.

Skill issue you have, read my post on the first page, nvm I'll post it here, crystals don't go over the edge if you know how.

Quote

Pro Hint always stand on the front of the platforms so he doesn't shoot the crystals off the platform, they'll always land.

 

[AlucardNoir]

33 minutes ago, Kattefjaes said:

PvC (Player vs Controls) are a bit of a tradition- witness how clumsy the wanderer is in Duviri, or any version of Kahl Of Duty (probably the most tedious thing in Warframe).

This reminds me of Skyrim and how bad the default UX is because the UI was made for controllers and is way to simple to the capabilities of a keyboard and mouse set up (SkuUI for the WIN!). On the bright side there will come a time when we'll all have everything we want or need from Duviri and then it's "bye bye Drifter, see on the next incarnon genesis release". Too bad Kahl's not that easy to ignore... well, maybe once every three weeks he can be ignored because blue shards are under-powered.

[0_The_F00l]

it takes a little getting used to , but it is not really too difficult. you may fail a few times , but best to keep looking at nihil , you will see the patterns soon enough.

[RichardKam]

The problem I have with the fight is that, yes the attack is telegraphed, but the pattern is random. 

One time in phase 3 he just kept doing vertical strikes without shoting any crystal, and I can do nothing except seeing myself keep falling and respawning because the remaining platform was smaller than that piece of wood in Titanic.

[Tsukinoki]

3 hours ago, Chewarette said:

at the last health bar he just spent ... 5 minutes straight without throwing any crystal.

That was literally my experience just now.
Minutes upon minutes of going "Ok...Nearly all the platforms are destroyed and are just single triangles now can you stop vertically swinging and actually fire a crystal so I can attack you and progress the fight in any way, shape, or form?"

6 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

Pro Hint always stand on the front of the platforms so he doesn't shoot the crystals off the platform, they'll always land.

Until the boss just decides to do vertical swings only for minutes at a time and there are zero platforms big enough that "standing at the front" allows for them to actually land on the platform in question.

And there is literally nothing you can do in situations where the AI rolls that pattern because you have absolutely no way of progressing the fight until he decides to stop vertically swinging and actually fire off the effing crystal so you can progress.

 

You're 100% at the mercy of AI roulette...and if the AI doesn't like you then you literally can't do anything.
If the AI just decides to destroy too much of the platforms then you literally can't do anything except watch crystals fly off the edge into the void over and over and over and over again.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

It's not all crystals, it's the correct one.

Back in that season you had to look for clues in crime scenes, the crystals are based on items in those scenes.

And who knows what the "correct" crystals are during this fight?  After all they all look the same outside of the random evidence within them.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Tsukinoki

[SneakyErvin]

I can see it be an issue for people that havent done it before since the fight has absolutely zero explaination regarding what to do. #*!% even for me that had done it during the Glassmaker NW had forgotten what the hell I was supposed to do. I remembered something about picking up shards and throwing at the smurf, but that didnt work, then I saw crystals getting destroyed and thought "oh crap dont let all of them get destroyed since that is the fail state iirc". But it turns out the crystal getting destroyed was a shard throw from me missing Nihil and hitting the crystal, I figured that out when I had checked the wiki on what to do. 

After that it was simple.

Oh and the projectile speed and massive arcing on the shards if a #*!%ing pain in the nuts.

I remember why I disliked hated the fight during NW aswell.

[Slayer-.]

10 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

 

Until the boss just decides to do vertical swings only for minutes at a time and there are zero platforms big enough that "standing at the front" allows for them to actually land on the platform in question.

And there is literally nothing you can do in situations where the AI rolls that pattern because you have absolutely no way of progressing the fight until he decides to stop vertically swinging and actually fire off the effing crystal so you can progress.

 

You're 100% at the mercy of AI roulette...and if the AI doesn't like you then you literally can't do anything.
If the AI just decides to destroy too much of the platforms then you literally can't do anything except watch crystals fly off the edge into the void over and over and over and over again.

 

Never had a problem with that, yes the very few times the platforms get down to very few and small but I adapt and get around it, and yes it does get hectic when you mess up, especially when I have my brain switched off, sleepy or both. 

[Drachnyn]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Slayer-.:

Skill issue you have, read my post on the first page, nvm I'll post it here, crystals don't go over the edge if you know how.

 

I love how everyone assume people hate this fight because of difficulty. The fight is easy, it's just bad. You can take back the snark, I know how he shoots. A bit clunky to make the shot land on solid ground when he only leaves small isolated triangles for space. I beat it no problem. It just wasnt fun. You and many people instantly jumping to difficulty shows your own lack of understanding more than anything.

[Slayer-.]

5 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I love how everyone assume people hate this fight because of difficulty. The fight is easy, it's just bad. You can take back the snark, I know how he shoots. A bit clunky to make the shot land on solid ground when he only leaves small isolated triangles for space. I beat it no problem. It just wasnt fun. You and many people instantly jumping to difficulty shows your own lack of understanding more than anything.

I hit a nerve. 

[(XBOX)K1jker]

The only thing I hated was trying to remember how it works.. Took me 2 lives to remember to hit the crystals first and not him xD and then 2 lives doing the fight.

BTW it's ridiculous for them to think anyone can remember which exact crystal it was.. 

[Drachnyn]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Slayer-.:

I hit a nerve. 

Correct. I find people who defend bad design very annoying.

[Slayer-.]

Just now, Drachnyn said:

Correct. I find people who defend bad design very annoying.

I never defend anything, bad design is everywhere, I acknowledge that.

[Rawbeard]

8 hours ago, 16Bitman said:

Watch closely the way he swings his sword, the attacks are very heavily telegraphed.

except they are also lying. they can hit you even if you are behind him, or have dodged out of the way in a more expected way. telegraphs mean nothing if they are not true 100% of the time.

[PsychicKitty]

Its interesting with this fight because many people had difficulty with it when it came out, because they didn't know how to slide and bullet jump and use aim glide.

And from the latest comments it still looks like it.

If you want an easier time:

Spoiler

You need to slot something like Patagium which increases your aim glide time and aero vantage which gives you up to -100% gravity while aim gliding.  I guess zephyr might be useful too with the float jumping 

 

[(XBOX)Lady Ukita]

You only have to beat him once, at least.

[AlucardNoir]

46 minutes ago, (XBOX)Lady Ukita said:

You only have to beat him once, at least.

Assuming everybody already has Vitrica... bold move.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

So as someone who has tortured themselves by redoing this boss fight 30+ times for the nw key that gives you a riven(yes I'm a riven hoe), I have some tips. After you remove his first health bar, stay as far away as possible from him. He will shoot more glass shards at you. The longer the fight drags on the worst it gets as he can destroy most of the flooring. If he does a horizontal sweep just double jump to avoid it. If vertical attack, you must move platforms. Good luck. You can remove his invulnerability period by destroying one specific glass diamond but I have no idea how to know which one it is.

Edited August 4, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Gemini_Jenvas]

Doing all three Boss-fights back to back really shows how bad the Nihil fight is.

For this fight nothing you aquired in the game matters. Build, weapons, Frame choice, dont matter. (not even warframe passives help)

Unforgiving instant death. No time to learn or remember how to do this fight, while the machanics have nothing to do with the rest of warframes gameplay.

Throwing mechanic is clunky and slow and here the range feels extra short so you have to be pointblank.

The Boss sets the pace of the fight. You have to wait till he gives you the tools to defeat him. That's generelly hated game deisgn.

Falling doesn't matter in this supposed platfarming-fight. Losing platforms just makes it harder to deal damage tot he Boss, drawing out the fight.

 

In short: it's not hard, but very annoying and once you adapt to mitigate the issues with this fight it is just boring.

[trst]

Gotta say I always find it strange how much experiences differ when it comes to bugs. I've ran this fight nearly every single time his pass has shown up in the NW shop (even just ran it twice for Rivens to check it again) and have never once encountered a bugged interaction. Nor have I ever encountered these AI loops some are mentioning where he just keeps destroying the platforms instead of firing glass at you.

Maybe Warframe is actually haunted and everyone's copy is personalized.

 

Also for anyone confused as to what the correct crystal is to hit at the start of each phase it's literally the one that's colored differently. The incorrect ones all have a blue/red lighting to them there the correct one has that slightly gold tint everything else in the fight has. The images inside them are also consistent but, iirc, the correct images are different per player by design.

That is assuming the game isn't haunted and is giving some players randomly colored crystals.

[CortiWins]

I had forgotten how unfun this one is. Movement is more fun with a melee weapon and item throwing without a marker is always meh.

[(PSN)Unstar]

I think there's probably an enjoyable fight to be found in Nihil if DE sanded off the rough edges.  It just doesn't feel good to me; it's not fun.  I was able to pretty quickly learn the fight again and overcome it, but it wasn't enjoyable.  Lots of dead time waiting.  Throwing crystals doesn't feel good, either when you throw them or when they impact.  The disappearing platforms seem needless and only incentivize players to fall as a form of dodging.  Nihil's wide slash feels like it could use a bit more of a tell to feel juicy when you dodge it.  It's all doable, it's all technically a complete boss fight, it's just missing polish that would make it an enjoyable boss fight.

Edited August 4, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar

[Tsukinoki]

2 hours ago, trst said:

Also for anyone confused as to what the correct crystal is to hit at the start of each phase it's literally the one that's colored differently. The incorrect ones all have a blue/red lighting to them there the correct one has that slightly gold tint everything else in the fight has. The images inside them are also consistent but, iirc, the correct images are different per player by design.

That is assuming the game isn't haunted and is giving some players randomly colored crystals.

In the attempt I did early this morning all the crystals looked 100% identical outside of the images inside of them.

Maybe I need to recalibrate my monitors (though I haven't had issues in other games, even games where color matters), or maybe the game glitched out and didn't give me the right colors.  Impossible to tell.

There really should be some other way to tell which one you need to hit outside of a very small color change.

2 hours ago, trst said:

Nor have I ever encountered these AI loops some are mentioning where he just keeps destroying the platforms instead of firing glass at you.

It was a first for me as well (I faced him once as the proper nightwave boss fight and then did one rematch when it was first added to the nightwave shop), but he got into an AI loop of "Teleport, vertical swing, teleport, vertical swing, teleport, vertical swing, teleport and sit there hunched over and winded...." with absolutely nothing that could be done about it.

I was left dodging until he finally started firing a few shards so I could attack him.

The last phase of the fight took over 5 minutes by itself purely because of that.

 

AI roulette fights where you are 100% dependent on the AI taking a certain action so you can progress really shouldn't be a thing.  It's just problematic and there are cases where the fight becomes literally unwinnable simply because the AI randomly rolled a pattern that you can't win.

Beyond that having the pacing and duration of the fight be 100% dependent on the AI doing the right thing is just tiresome and annoying at best.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Tsukinoki