Tennocon wasn't the place for soulframe

[DeeDeeLyla]

On 2023-08-27 at 10:28 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

You know they... are... the Warframe team, right?

The former Warframe team members are working on Soulframe, yes

Still doesn't change the fact that they were put in a bad position by managment of having to have their demo cut into the current Warframe team's time which in turn led to them having to rush theirs

Another aspect of this that hadn't occurred to me until recently is: how actually unfair it must have been to BOTH teams, for TennoLive's time and the downtime to have been (mis)managed as it was, to the point of becoming another debacle

On 2023-08-27 at 10:42 AM, (PSN)Unstar said:

that makes it TennoCon the perfect place to show updates on it

Again, yes TennoCon was the place for it, but TennoLive itself wasn't; they could have even used at least some of the roughly 30 minutes of downtime just beforehand to showcase Soulframe and it wouldn't have nearly been as much of a problem for any of the teams involved; they BOTH might have even had MORE time to showcase Soulframe AND Warframe 1999 among other things

On 2023-08-27 at 4:31 AM, Kaggelos said:

Your face is mid af xD

and before you say it, no u

...
... A reminder that you are presently one of only a tiny fraction of posting individuals within this thread who are seemingly satisfied with how TennoLive was (mis)handled, even when certain devs during the livestream appeared to be visibly distressed... and comments such as that (regardless of the "spirit" they were made in) help none of your arguments here in the slightest. Not. One. Iota.

Edited September 3, 2023 by DeeDeeLyla

[WOLFtv]

what you mean ? pretty sure all their future games are tested inside WF so its wf

[DeeDeeLyla]

19 minutes ago, WOLFtv said:

its wf

No. They are two completely different games, in both story and gameplay (unless, in the former's case, they at some point decide to make Soulframe a part of Warframe's timeline for whatever reasons)

Edited August 27, 2023 by DeeDeeLyla

[Joezone619]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You know they... are... the Warframe team, right?

Incorrect, Soulframe is made by Airship Syndicate who is partnering with DE to make it. Ultimately DE isn't likely to see much of the profits from it. Either way it doesn't matter because this was TENNO-con not DE-con, If it doesn't relate to the tenno, it shouldn't have been there.

[WOLFtv]

they will always use their already build fanbase for questionable stuffs,why wouldnt they?

but for real,DE uses WF to test everything and many end in other games,that's why the odd/different content which left behind as failure

duviri mechanics is soulframe, assets ,skins-drifter,few newest frame skins are in soulframe

[Gamer_Auto]

12 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Incorrect, Soulframe is made by Airship Syndicate who is partnering with DE to make it. Ultimately DE isn't likely to see much of the profits from it. Either way it doesn't matter because this was TENNO-con not DE-con, If it doesn't relate to the tenno, it shouldn't have been there.

Am I really going to have to be the one that reminds people of Hayden Tenno from Dark Sector? A game made by DE? Thus making "TennoCon" as a name for an "Overall DE" convention perfectly legitimate?

And if Soulframe wasn't DE, why does it say "Copyright 2023 Digital Extremes" with the DE logo on the official website? The publisher might be this "Airship Syndicate", but the developer seems to still be DE.

38 minutes ago, DeeDeeLyla said:

The former Warframe team members are working on Soulframe, yes

Still doesn't change the fact that their demo cut into the current Warframe team's time and led to them having to rush theirs

Another aspect of this that hadn't occurred to me until recently is: how actually unfair it must have been to BOTH teams, for TennoLive's time and the downtime to have been (mis)managed as it was, to the point of becoming another debacle

Again, yes TennoCon was the place for it, but TennoLive itself wasn't; they could have even used at least some of the roughly 30 minutes of downtime just beforehand to showcase Soulframe and it wouldn't have nearly been as much of a problem for any of the teams involved; they BOTH might have even had MORE time to showcase Soulframe AND Warframe 1999 among other things

...
... A reminder that you are presently one of only a tiny fraction of posting individuals within this thread who are seemingly satisfied with how TennoLive was (mis)handled, even when certain devs during the livestream appeared to be visibly distressed... and comments such as that (regardless of the "spirit" they were made in) help none of your cases here in the slightest. Not. One. Iota.

Need I remind you that this is the same dev team that gets roaring applause when they announce that they're finally following through on years-old promises (Hydroid Rework)? They can barely keep a leash on their actual job flow, and you really expect them to be able to properly organize a convention that they haven't held in-person in 2 or 3 years?

[Kaggelos]

2 hours ago, DeeDeeLyla said:

... A reminder that you are presently one of only a tiny fraction of posting individuals within this thread who are seemingly satisfied with how TennoLive was (mis)handled, even when certain devs during the livestream appeared to be visibly distressed... and comments such as that (regardless of the "spirit" they were made in) help none of your cases here in the slightest. Not. One. Iota.

Just say you didnt like it man, its not wrong, its called taste...

[DeeDeeLyla]

On 2023-08-27 at 2:42 PM, Gamer_Auto said:

Need I remind you that this is the same dev team that gets roaring applause when they announce that they're finally following through on years-old promises (Hydroid Rework)? They can barely keep a leash on their actual job flow

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they don't have nearly as much control over schedules as they would like to have, usually due to higher-ups they answer to?

This is (unfortunately) a very common thing in the gaming industry, just look at Blizzard, UbiSoft, Electronic Arts, Artix Entertainment, etc.

Game developers themselves for the most part barely have anyone to advocate for them (compared to other industries such as Film, Construction, etc.) which is why it's been high past time for actual Unions / Guilds / etc. to form; we needed those yesterday, more like anytime during the last two decades, instead the Games Industry as a whole is in a mess partly because that hasn't happened yet... call it Cause-and-Effect or whatever

On 2023-08-27 at 2:42 PM, Gamer_Auto said:

a convention that they haven't held in-person in 2 or 3 years

This is one of the only parts of what you said in your reply to me that I actually fully agree with

At this point all I can realistically hope for is that TennoCon2024 as a whole is handled better, at the very least when it comes to timeslots and such, it would be to the benefit of everyone involved / viewing / attending / etc.

Edited August 30, 2023 by DeeDeeLyla

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Warframe isn't the place for Soulframe either, and yet we still got Duviri.

[DrBorris]

14 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Incorrect, Soulframe is made by Airship Syndicate who is partnering with DE to make it. Ultimately DE isn't likely to see much of the profits from it. Either way it doesn't matter because this was TENNO-con not DE-con, If it doesn't relate to the tenno, it shouldn't have been there.

...

wat... I'm not sure where you got this from when [DE]Steve was the guy presenting the demo...

SoulFrame is being made internally by DE. Steve, Scott, and Geoff are leading the development (with some other new faces that we haven't seen much). Wayfinder is being developed by Airship Syndicate and is published by DE. We don't know how involved DE is with its development, but at the very least we know they are responsible for their servers. 

 

And to the point... SoulFrame at Tennocon makes sense. It is made by the same people, and it has extremely close ties to the structure of Warframe. Did you notice how amazing the Warframe demo looked? That is most likely due to the SoulFrame team and the shared engine. It is technically a Warframe convention, but it is just as much a celebration for Digital Extremes. It is a time for the devs as much as it is a time for the community, Tenno being the name is because that is the only game DE had at the time (and it is a lot catchier than DE-con). 

To those saying that SoulFrame should've gone after... you what? As yall are saying, it was Warframe's convention, ending Warframes's convention on another game is far worse than having it be the pre-show. I do think it would've been better if SoulFrame had its own time-slot, TennoLive was just a demo and a few notes when it is normally a Devstream+. However the schedule was tight and it would've had to overlap with another presentation, so it being a pre-show was a fair compromise in my opinion. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by DrBorris

[Birdframe_Prime]

23 hours ago, DeeDeeLyla said:

The former Warframe team members are working on Soulframe, yes

Still doesn't change the fact that their demo cut into the current Warframe team's time and led to them having to rush theirs

A fact that was not un-expected and was completely approved and allowed for by the Warframe team. They had the option to not give Soulframe the space, and they did. Why? Because they're all Digital Extremes.

Warframe and Soulframe are from the same studio. TennoCon is hosted by Digital Extremes, not by Warframe.

Saying that there's no place for Soulframe in the TennoLive section is like saying that a guest you've invited into your house shouldn't be in your house.

23 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Incorrect, Soulframe is made by Airship Syndicate who is partnering with DE to make it.

You saw the people on the stage, right? Scott, Steve and Geoff? The actual creators of Warframe. The Warframe team for the entire run-up to the original release and nine years after it. They're the Warframe team. Former, yes, but they're not even in a different studio. They're Digital Extremes.

And now they're the creative directors of Soulframe. Still working for Digital Extremes. Just on a separate game.

[PollexMessier]

It was way too long and should've been put in at the end. Nearly everyone's there for warframe. I dont really wanna see tennocon become the warframe and soulframe convention over time. Or if it is draw a very clear line between when the warframe related stuff ends and the soulframe related stuff begins and not mix them in between eachother, soe people that only care about one or the other aren't having their time wasted.

I also really wasn't expecting the announcement that soulframe would be FTP live service. I think that's a really, really horrible move that'll be a detriment to both games. Cus that makes Soulframe directly compete with Warframe for their player's time and money in a BIG way. Ideally this means Warframe chills the hell out with it's fomo time gated grinds and purchases, and big grinds overall, to give Soulframe the space to grow. And Soulframe never devolves into that garbage to begin with as to not eat Warframe's playerbase. But I think we all know that's not going to happen and they're both going to continue the trend Warframe's been following with trying to suck up as much of their player's time as possible.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

On 2023-08-27 at 3:18 PM, Joezone619 said:

Incorrect, Soulframe is made by Airship Syndicate who is partnering with DE to make it. Ultimately DE isn't likely to see much of the profits from it. Either way it doesn't matter because this was TENNO-con not DE-con, If it doesn't relate to the tenno, it shouldn't have been there.

I do not see anywhere that Airship Syndicate has anything to do with SoulFrame. Infact the SoulFrame website makes zero mention of them and only shows the DE logo.

[Jessadactyl]

I don't mind it at all, given it both may have actual connection to Warframe itself; and Tennocon is in essence DE's Blizzcon. It's not just a Warframe convention, it's a DE convention. Soulframe also looks neat, and I will definitely be trying it.

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

I felt like the time they used for Soulframe could've been used for i don't know maybe squeezing in some devstream content showing us more upcoming stuff and not another DE project that won't be out for a few years, cool that they are doing it yes but not exactly the time or the place for it i personally think. 

that seemed like stealing the spotlight from Warframe to get more eyes on Soulframe for no good reason since Soulframe isn't gonna be playable to the public for awhile i think unless they surprise us in a year and say it's ready for public testing or something.

[BloodKitten]

i feel like its fine if its the same devs of warframe and part of the same company, as steve was the former creative director, however, i do feel like they should have done the presentation either befor the main event, or after warframe finished showing what they working on, so people that may not be intrested could tune off without waiting for a diffrent game to finish presentation.

[Birdframe_Prime]

20 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I do not see anywhere that Airship Syndicate has anything to do with SoulFrame. Infact the SoulFrame website makes zero mention of them and only shows the DE logo.

That person is confusing the matter with Wayfinder, the actual game produced by Airship Syndicate, by partnering with Digital extremes. It was released a couple of weeks ago and uses DE's infrastructure (which explains why the servers were so janky ^^).

[LuckyCharm]

Anyone else remember that overwatch clone de released? Feels much like the same thing, where its being hyped for the sake of "heres this new shiny, be excited everyone! It'll be free to play! Buy the supporter packs!" Using warframes dwindling popularity as a platform to drive up sales and expectations. It legit would be a decent game to look into, were the main character you play as not an almost faceless entity that feels like youd have no real connection with or reason to feel for them, and without the color correction making everything grey and washed out. 

When you make rpg fantasy games the players got to have a reason to be invested in the characters, hate the villains, love the heros etc. When you use frilly ambiguous language that makes no sense  like all of warframes story, you loose that emotional attachment that makes you want to keep playing. Only reason warframes lack of cohesive story works for them is that theyve hooked everyone with gameplay elements that soulframe is lacking 

[Gamer_Auto]

On 2023-08-28 at 4:24 PM, PollexMessier said:

It was way too long and should've been put in at the end. Nearly everyone's there for warframe. I dont really wanna see tennocon become the warframe and soulframe convention over time. Or if it is draw a very clear line between when the warframe related stuff ends and the soulframe related stuff begins and not mix them in between eachother, soe people that only care about one or the other aren't having their time wasted.

I also really wasn't expecting the announcement that soulframe would be FTP live service. I think that's a really, really horrible move that'll be a detriment to both games. Cus that makes Soulframe directly compete with Warframe for their player's time and money in a BIG way. Ideally this means Warframe chills the hell out with it's fomo time gated grinds and purchases, and big grinds overall, to give Soulframe the space to grow. And Soulframe never devolves into that garbage to begin with as to not eat Warframe's playerbase. But I think we all know that's not going to happen and they're both going to continue the trend Warframe's been following with trying to suck up as much of their player's time as possible.

The one thing I've seen suggested in this thread that I agree with is that Soulframe could have taken up the 45+ minutes of dead space throughout the convention stream, instead of the boring people cam.

[Gamer_Auto]

On 2023-08-27 at 7:09 PM, DeeDeeLyla said:

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they don't have nearly as much control over schedules as they would like to have, usually due to higher-ups they answer to?

This is (unfortunately) a very common thing in the gaming industry, just look at Blizzard, UbiSoft, Electronic Arts, Artix Entertainment, etc.

Game developers themselves for the most part barely have anyone to advocate for them compared to other industries such as Film, Construction, etc. which is why it's been high past time for actual Unions / Guilds / etc. to form; we needed those yesterday, more like anytime during the last two decades, instead the Games Industry as a whole is in a mess partly because that hasn't happened yet... call it Cause-and-Effect or whatever

That may be true, but that's also getting into an entirely different conversation that just so happens to potentially be the root cause of the current discussion: that Warframe's devs promise Lua and deliver pebbles if not dust.

[DeeDeeLyla]

On 2023-08-28 at 4:30 AM, DrBorris said:

However the schedule was tight

...

...

... Quite possibly one of the (if not most) factually incorrect of statements in this whole thread! There was upwards of over half an hour of downtime by itself just before TennoLive itself; hells, they could have even at a bare minimum started the segment minutes earlier and that still would have been an improvement over the situation which happened instead (and made TennoLive awkward for devs and viewers alike)

There's simply no excuse for this schedule (mis)management by executives at DE / venue organizers / whoever made such a call which was clearly not in tune with either team, and they owe their devs an apology, or at the very least a promise to handle the timeslots better for TennoLive 2024 if nothing else

Edited August 30, 2023 by DeeDeeLyla

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

45+ minutes

Everyone keeps talking about this time, and... they're wrong?

The first fifteen minutes of the TennoLive was the intro and the Musical performance. The Soulframe intro and cinematic took only a little over 30 minutes, and the thing that made TennoLive run longer than they intended was the amount of wasted time talking about the Warframe updates that are already scheduled to be explained in the next DevStream. Warframe team should have glossed over those more and got on with their presentation if they didn't want to go over on their time slot.

Except that's not a thing. It's their convention, all presentations and presence on the stage is signed of by the people that run it.

TennoCon is run by Digital Extremes. Digital Extremes are the Warframe and Soulframe guys. TennoCon becoming the Warframe and Soulframe convention is:

1. Expected.
2. Natural.
3. Probably intended by the DE staff.

Expect to see more of it.

[Gamer_Auto]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Everyone keeps talking about this time, and... they're wrong?

The first fifteen minutes of the TennoLive was the intro and the Musical performance. The Soulframe intro and cinematic took only a little over 30 minutes, and the thing that made TennoLive run longer than they intended was the amount of wasted time talking about the Warframe updates that are already scheduled to be explained in the next DevStream. Warframe team should have glossed over those more and got on with their presentation if they didn't want to go over on their time slot.

Except that's not a thing. It's their convention, all presentations and presence on the stage is signed of by the people that run it.

TennoCon is run by Digital Extremes. Digital Extremes are the Warframe and Soulframe guys. TennoCon becoming the Warframe and Soulframe convention is:

1. Expected.
2. Natural.
3. Probably intended by the DE staff.

Expect to see more of it.

It certainly felt like 45 minutes of total dead time. Maybe that's because I was waiting in the relay for something to appear, and it never did.

And I'm not mad that they included Soulframe. I thought it was interesting to see what they had cooked up since the announcement. But I will admit that there was some dead time between segments were they could have put more condensed scripted segments to show off the pieces of Soulframe that we hadn't seen, cutting out the uninteresting walking in the presentation itself that artificially extended the runtime. And 100%, that can go for Warframe's presentations as well. Live demo plays aren't the most efficient form of showing off an update unless you're focusing on new scenery. If you're trying to show off gameplay features and WIP mechanics, a scripted, edited down presentation that focuses solely on that stuff is far more useful to prospective players. It's short, to the point, and doesn't meander about the topic. Because casuals (the audience DE is actually trying to attract with promo material) typically don't have the attention span for a 30-40 minute live demo that's mostly walking with occasional pockets of short slow combat. Anything longer probably should have it's own dedicated segment or even it's own dedicated dev streams (assuming that's not a thing already).

I'M not saying that Soulframe didn't have a place at TennoCon. I'M saying that it probably could have been handled smarter if they were so concerned about time restrictions.

[Vaml77]

I didn't like the way the game was played...I thought it was pretty boring. The time devoted to soulframe was rather disrespectful to the community that plays warframe. And in the end what we saw were few things for the warframe that boiled down to a new area in deimos, a new warframe, a necramech and the next prime. At the end of the broadcast I was confused by what was shown and that feeling that nothing interesting was presented.

[CrownOfShadows]

I didn't mind it, I was curious to see what soulframe was actually finally about (and personally I have zero interest in soulframe, now more than ever). It's whatever, and I think it was smart to have them go first. Otherwise it would've ended on soulframe instead of WF99, which woulda been way worse - you want to end on a high note, and they did. I don't mind giving them their spotlight; after all, we wouldn't have WF without them, they earned it. Have some human kindness y'know? Not everything has to be ruthless. They didn't steal the show, and they only made me more excited for the main WF presentation.