"Its WARFRAME, not ___FRAME!"

[PaladinJukes]

I wanna bring up a discussion about something I've heard hundreds of times over my almost 10 year history playing this game. The idea that this game we enjoy is about Warframes, exclusively. It's simply not. It never has been. Narratively, the game has always been about the TENNO and not their Warframe. Every time DE has added gameplay mechanics to enforce the narrative of the Warframes being tools for our Operator/Drifter theres been pushback from some people going "Its warframe not ___frame". Same happens when some of the community theorizes about the Tennos becoming powerful warriors and growing up (for example, wanting the Drifter to have similar combat in the star chart to Duviri/TNW). The concept of Warframe as a game has existed since Dark Sector. As such, its never been about the warframes and Im so tired of people using the title as some sort of weapon against DE to argue why they shouldnt evolve their game. Its infantilizing. It happened when they added Archwing, Operators, Focus Trees, Rail-Jack, Drifter, Duviri etc. Im certain we'll hear it again when WF 1999 drops. Im almost at the point where Im going to unironically bully people that use this phrase because they obviously have no idea what the game is about (Im just being dramatic, not being serious). If you want Warframe to be solely about the Warframes then dont do the Second Dream or any quest afterword. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by PaladinJukes

[Kaotyke]

But using common sense doesnt bring internet kudos, dude.

Now, let me go back to playing Half-Life with a Mod that gives me 50 Health as max HP.

[(PSN)Unstar]

"DE can't make my frame take off their jacket, it's WARframe not WOREframe."

Edited August 29, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

"DE can't make my frame take off their jacket, it's WARframe not WOREframe."

lmao what?

[(PSN)Unstar]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

lmao what?

When I went out earlier I wore my jacket, but later I took it off.

Edited August 29, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar
it's a very dumb joke, if you can even call it that

[Stormandreas]

48 minutes ago, PaladinJukes said:

I wanna bring up a discussion about something I've heard hundreds of times over my almost 10 year history playing this game. The idea that this game we enjoy is about Warframes, exclusively. It's simply not. It never has been. Narratively, the game has always been about the TENNO and not their Warframe. Every time DE has added gameplay mechanics to enforce the narrative of the Warframes being tools for our Operator/Drifter theres been pushback from some people going "Its warframe not ___frame". Same happens when some of the community theorizes about the Tennos becoming powerful warriors and growing up (for example, wanting the Drifter to have similar combat in the star chart to Duviri/TNW). The concept of Warframe as a game has existed since Dark Sector. As such, its never been about the warframes and Im so tired of people using the title as some sort of weapon against DE to argue why they shouldnt evolve their game. Its infantilizing. It happened when they added Archwing, Operators, Focus Trees, Rail-Jack, Drifter, Duviri etc. Im certain we'll hear it again when WF 1999 drops. Im almost at the point where Im going to unironically bully people that use this phrase because they obviously have no idea what the game is about. If you want Warframe to be solely about the Warframes then dont do the Second Dream or any quest afterword. 

I have played for the 10 years. I am not sure about yourself as the forum account is not the same as the ingame account, but your forum account was only made in 2017, which makes me a little skeptical about your claim.

Either way, Warframe absolutely was only about the Warframes, who were thought to also be the Tenno themselves. The Tenno and Warframes were one and the same from the start, but this was changed during The Second Dream. Only since then, have Tenno and Warframes been seperated.

The fact that you mention that anyone wanting to play only Warframes not to do Second Dream is kinda proof you know this, however, saying you are going to "unironically bully people" is the absolute worst way to have youself taken seriously. Not only that, that there's practically no-one who's saying DE shouldn't evolve their game, but there are complaints about the direction of the game going in a way where, all the things we farm out and work to get, we can't even use fully ala Duviri and Kahl. That is the complaint, not that the game is evolving.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Stormandreas

[PaladinJukes]

5 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

I have played for the 10 years. I am not sure about yourself as the forum account is not the same as the ingame account, but your forum account was only made in 2017, which makes me a little skeptical about your claim.

Either way, Warframe absolutely was only about the Warframes, who were thought to also be the Tenno themselves. The Tenno and Warframes were one and the same from the start, but this was changed during The Second Dream. Only since then, have Tenno and Warframes been seperated.

The fact that you mention that anyone wanting to play only Warframes not to do Second Dream is kinda proof you know this, however, saying you are going to "unironically bully people" is the absolute worst way to have youself taken seriously. Not only that, that there's practically no-one who's saying DE shouldn't evolve their game, but there are complaints about the direction of the game going in a way where, all the things we farm out and work to get, we can't even use fully ala Duviri and Kahl. That is the complaint, not that the game is evolving.

Okay admittedly I shouldnt have said that, Im just really tired of hearing it. As for when I started playing, it was just before Nekros was added back in 2013. 10 years ago. I was exclusively on Xbox One then and eventually moved over to PC. And yeah, I know about the time before Second Dream was added. However, DE has been making Warframe a long time. Their original attempt was Dark Sector, playing as a human; Hayden Tenno. Over time they've been trying to slowly tie their games together (now we have the announcement of WF 1999 which would be about 20-30 years after Dark Sector which took place in the 70's IIRC). I think its fair to say their plans for Warframe's to be an extension of the actual character have been there since the beginning. 

[Lilybun]

I don't mind the narrative being separate from the frames but I do prefer to use my frame to do the combat/movement parts of any content. Warframe gameplay was the reason I got into this game back in the day and its the only reason I keep playing, the more warframe related content they add the more of the game I get to enjoy.

People will sook about any new thing, that's how humans work but it doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong to have such opinions.

[Pakaku]

1 hour ago, PaladinJukes said:

It happened when they added Archwing, Operators, Focus Trees, Rail-Jack, Drifter, Duviri etc.

And it's all been mediocre or underwhelming compared to Warframe combat. Archwing sounds cool, but is seriously held back by lack of modding and places to use it. Archguns are just plain bad and the old ones never got the support or buffs they deserved. Gravimags just turn them into weak guns with arbitrary restrictions. Railjack was cool until they neutered it to make it accessible, and they forgot about the Railjack part when Corpus taxi missions were added.

Operators and Drifter are slow and cumbersome, I guess you could put in ridiculous hours to focus farm for something useful. Duviri and "Drifter combat" were outright flops as far as I'm concerned

Which is why I think... the Warframe 1999 thing looks cool, because it looks like it's back to Warframe-style gameplay despite its new characters and overall presentation

Edited August 29, 2023 by Pakaku

[FlyingDice]

9 minutes ago, PaladinJukes said:

Okay admittedly I shouldnt have said that, Im just really tired of hearing it. As for when I started playing, it was just before Nekros was added back in 2013. 10 years ago. I was exclusively on Xbox One then and eventually moved over to PC. And yeah, I know about the time before Second Dream was added. However, DE has been making Warframe a long time. Their original attempt was Dark Sector, playing as a human; Hayden Tenno. Over time they've been trying to slowly tie their games together (now we have the announcement of WF 1999 which would be about 20-30 years after Dark Sector which took place in the 70's IIRC). I think its fair to say their plans for Warframe's to be an extension of the actual character have been there since the beginning. 

We all know what Dark Sector was, and it was always an aesthetic predecessor. Nobody ever bothered talking about what was under the skin of warframes because they were the characters, in the same way that LoL players didn't care about who the summoners were.

[PaladinJukes]

3 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

We all know what Dark Sector was, and it was always an aesthetic predecessor.

I disagree. While they may not actually canonize the story to Warframe (though with Eternalism and alternative timelines they definitely could), a lot of the story beats have been reused. Hayden Tenno was infected by the technocyte, which is also the name of the virus that created the Warframes. His skin is in Warframe as the Proto-Excalibur. In WF 1999 Arthur seems to be sick and has an Excalibur body, which is likely from the technocyte virus. Which is the same that created Umbra later on, with the transference bolt and a Dax soldier. This whole idea gets away from the original post though, so Ill just leave it at its not canon yet

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

I'm fairly confident that people don't really care about the story when they say "It's called Warframe." Instead, that's an argument against the gameplay that diverges from what they expect out of Warframe, usually for the worse. Warframe's gameplay is pretty good, and a lot of people would rather have more of a good thing than be introduced to something new and potentially inferior. This is even more annoying when these new types of gameplay come at the cost of developer resources that could have been used making more of the thing we already like.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

a lot of the time, people who say "it's warframe not X", myself included, is because we enjoy the core gameplay loop of the warframes themselves, and while most of us aren't' against DE branching out with new ideas, we just want the warframe side of things to actually get some recognition once in a while. Abyss of Dagath looks like it should do this fairly well, with a return to Deimos, and a new warframe to play with, and one thing I like about warframe 1999 is that it appears Arthur/Excal will be able to move almost as freely as a warframe does. 

plus a LOT of the games older, and typically warframe-based content needs an update, but DE won't do it because they focus almost exclusively on new content, and it's becoming tiresome to watch. new stuff is fine, great even, but even if just ONE major system (a game mode, a tileset etc.) a YEAR could be fully redone, remastered to the same lofty heights as the rest of the game, that's all I'd want. I was overjoyed when I heard Hydroid and companions were FINALLY getting reworked, and I hope said rework will be worth the wait; if it is, then it just proves my point further that DE should go back and fix older content, because they can be just as good at that as they can be at making the amazing new content we get to enjoy. 

I truly believe DE can find the balance, if they only bothered to actually look for it!

 

[Pizzarugi]

I think DE's been adding a lot of non-warframe content, because they're scared sh*tless over how the community would react if they nerfed everything to stop being so game-breakingly OP. People are, to this day, still upset over the AoE weapon nerfs and I bet it's why they haven't done anything about Saryn or Mesa, and likely never will. By adding new content that takes you out of your warframe, they have a chance to make their content balanced and perhaps even challenging. Think of the time you fought the Archons during The New War. Were you able to stand in one place as the Drifter and just unload into their faces with the most powerful weapon in your arsenal, or did you spend the entire fight kiting them while pecking at them with charged Nataruk arrows?

This is, just like with how DE added enemies we didn't want like nullifiers, yet another consequence of our obsession with making the game play itself for us.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Pizzarugi

[Yakhul]

Personally, i like the "Evolution" of Warframe. Yeah, is hard to adjust to change, but the game keeps evolving in ways that defy common game development, and i very much like that. I hope DE never stays shackled by fear of how the community might react, or fear that they are not following the "standards" in the gaming industry. Keep being bizarre and strange, that is what makes Warframe unique and stand out.

[(PSN)rexis12]

Anytime they add changes to Railjack, that's developer resources that they could have put into fixing the 50 Warframes in the game.

Anytime they make changes to Archwing and all their weapons, that's time they could have spent balancing the enemies and health and all the overpowered metas and  non meta options.

Everything added to Duviri could have been changes to the tileset and pacing of older missions and QOL.

Everytime they add things, to chase some big fancy that they will inevitably forget about in about a month, like how Kahl is just forgotten and ignored with just three missions that repeat ad nauseam lol, is time they could have actually spent balancing and looking over the game.

Maybe they'll tackle why players are so obsessed with speedrunnih the game if they looked into the actual effort-to-reward structure of Warframe and then push the game into that direction instead of adding something that they'll ignore a few weeks later.

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, PaladinJukes said:

It's simply not. It never has been. Narratively, the game has always been about the TENNO and not their Warframe. 

Lore wise yes, the Narrative has mentioned things which didn't sound like Warframes in the earlier Years - however it was probability based deduction to try to infer when Text/Audio Logs or other side bits were referring to Warframes, Tenno themselves, or other things. that side Lore that was dripfed in over time was not that specific, it was intentionally fairly vague - Characters being bewildered or just out of their mind and so you try to deduce what they were really Talking about or whatever. or just major Characters being intentionally vague and omissive either for dramatic effect or because Digital Extremes didn't want to openly talk about some things too early.

but not Gameplay wise. and this is a Video Game, any Player spends the vast majority of their time playing the game, versus Reading about it. so their experiences and expectations are based off of playing the Video Game.
from Oct.2012 to Update 18 (the very end of 2015), there wasn't a single drop of anything other than Warframes to be found. so, it's not that surprising that Players built their understanding of how things related to the game around the Warframes.
they may or may not have always had the intention to have other branches, but the Player wouldn't really know about that until the Day that U18 shipped.

careful how much you project your own bias, it clouds the facts.

 

 

 

 

anyways i prefer Warframe based Gameplay over all the rest, anyways. that's the most fun part of the game, anything else is competing against those Mechanics and IMO at best anything else can reach 'this is pretty fun, though not quite as fun as my Warframe is'.

• flying a Railjack is pretty cool, i like the flying.
  • though it's still not a Warfarme.
• stomping around in a Necramech is alright.
  • but it's definitely far less cool than a Warframe.
• spacekid gives me some useful extra Abilities, but i mainly care about how those Abilities can bolster and benefit my Warframe Gameplay.
• playing Drifter on Duviri has been amusing with the Decrees i can get, playing Risk of Tenno is certainly amusing. but my Warframe is still better. my favorite part of the Decrees is how they affect my Warframe, rather than how they affect Drifter/spacekid.
• Archwings are uh.... well those aren't really fun at all. their collision ""Mechanic"" punishes you for trying to move fast, and there isn't anything interesting about using them.  they're just all jank without real purpose or use other than a type of Fast Travel system. theoretically a source of additional Abilities alongside your Warframe, but they're really not balanced that way. instead we mostly get punished for using our Archwing outside of Content which forces us to exclusively use them.
  • could i just have Rocket Boots on my Warframe instead, tbh?
• Hoverboards are still a nice idea on paper but they're clunky and just not meeting the headspace of sci-fi tony hawk Jet Set Warframe. i'd love for them to be.
  • this is one space where i guess it technically doesn't really matter if i'm standing on it with my Warframe or not. thouuuuuuuuugh, my Warframe looks cooler than any other 'Character' i could be otherwise, so i'd still prefer Animating as my Warframe.
• Kahl is uh - clunky and slow, but each Mission is interesting to do.... once. then you're just repeating the same thing so it's really not very interesting, you're mostly trying to speedrun.
  • my Warframe is definitely a lot more fun.
• any Content which heavily hampers or disables my Warframe is fundamentally unfun Content.

i'm not inherently against offshoot Content, but i prefer it to be a temporary side thing, rather than any major component to longterm Gameplay.
The New War was fun, but i'm glad i only have to do that once.
The War Within was interesting Lore, and served as a Tutorial to practice using the new spacekid v2 that they'd come up with, which was good, but i'm glad i only have to do that once.

plus, all of those like, 400 something Weapons? those are like 90% Warframe Weapons. and yes, i'd like to use those, and ergo using my Warframe.

Edited August 30, 2023 by taiiat

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I think rebecca should do a video with some of the long-time content creators in which they talk about this. They've talked with the devs before and it usually makes the community feel better when they do. 

[(PSN)rexis12]

Just now, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

I think rebecca should do a video with some of the long-time content creators in which they talk about this. They've talked with the devs before and it usually makes the community feel better when they do. 

When reb took over, for like a few weeks they did this awesome thing where it was a 'Hot Topic' thread where she discussed it.

 

Funny enough it stopped after the hot topic thread where she tried to justify nerfing the Styanax Bug and Styanax 4, and no one was having it.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Funny enough it stopped after the hot topic thread where she tried to justify nerfing the Styanax Bug and Styanax 4, and no one was having it.

I tell you what. When I read negative comments by my beta readers for my irl novels, I have to sit back and get my head right, cuz mass negativity directed at you is really hard to handle properly. Especially when it's a whole crowd bearing down on you. I would rather say nothing if I felt that I might lash out or argue too much. That's when "thank you for your feedback" costomer service mode kicks in lol. I also doubt that reb has the last word in the monotization talks. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

Considering the \War/ in War-Frame

Wouldn't the tenno faction have active combatants ie "theres a lone operative looking for supplies" and Rescue

Why can't the Tenno faction invade the kuva fortress or run about earth

As simple as 20 units will slowly spawn during certain missions to help the operator and warframes in the supposed War example, Assault

 

When it comes to evolving the operator and drifter, its a bit late but why couldn't the sentients, the entrati, or the quills give them something other than amps, arcanes and a mech, but wizard teshin finally starts mediocre combat training

[Stormandreas]

9 hours ago, PaladinJukes said:

Okay admittedly I shouldnt have said that, Im just really tired of hearing it. As for when I started playing, it was just before Nekros was added back in 2013. 10 years ago. I was exclusively on Xbox One then and eventually moved over to PC. And yeah, I know about the time before Second Dream was added. However, DE has been making Warframe a long time. Their original attempt was Dark Sector, playing as a human; Hayden Tenno. Over time they've been trying to slowly tie their games together (now we have the announcement of WF 1999 which would be about 20-30 years after Dark Sector which took place in the 70's IIRC). I think its fair to say their plans for Warframe's to be an extension of the actual character have been there since the beginning. 

Fair.

Though Warframe did start off by becoming Dark Sector, Hayden Tenno is not a Tenno. He is, as you say, a Human. Tenno, as we know it now, did only start with Second Dream. DE just used the name Tenno, and applied to to the Humanoid characters we play (the Tenno). It's worth noting, that Tenno are also no longer Human as far as we know, they are Void Entities to an extent, but based around a Human/Orokin body, at least, afaik.

I don't buy the arguments for WF1999 though and it's place in the story. WF as far as we know, takes place many hundreds of years in the future, if not thousands. We know Warframes originally started as the Primes, and were made by the Orokin by infecting and experimenting on people using the Helminth Strain of the Technocyte virus (infestation), after they'd already made the Infestation and failed to control it.

WF 1999 doesn't scream to me that there's any Orokin Empire other than Dr Entrati being mentioned (though clearly being massively out of place in that world and also being the Man in the Wall)

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Its Warframe, not Bootyframe! Why is Wisp, Atlas Karst, Saryn, and Nezha Empyrean so cheeked up, on a Thursday afternoon? Its still day in the Plains of Eidolon. Ya hear? If I wanted all that butt, I would have been a Proctologist! Yowza!! 

Its Warframe, not Whaleframe! Whats the deal with these Heirloom skins? Everyones talking about them, some people are for them, some are against, but if I wanted to be considered a sucker, I would have brought me some lollipops! Snap! 

Its Warframe, not 1999Frame! Who let Prince and Y2K Chris Jericho in the building!? Prince didn't even write his song in 1999! He wrote it in the 80's, talk about false advertising! Whats next, StoneAgeFrame?!? You just ade the list! Damn, gottem! 

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week! Wait why are you booing! I'm not cringe!! **tumbleweeds**

I mean, at least Warframe isn't called Final Frame, can you imagine?