Pretty disappointed that a login reward rework wasn’t talked about in devstream.

[NecroPed]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

It's not a waste of slot because it goes in the exilus slot. You know the one where you don't have to replace something important in a build.......

I still consider it a waste compared to other exilus. As well as because of me just not seeing it as beneficial as most people do. 

[_COY_]

See those mods (and the weapons, too) as a gift for all Tenno, who show their loyalty by playing this game that long.
None of them are "needed" in any way; you can easily play through the complete content without them.
 

-c0y

[vixenpixel]

On 2023-06-18 at 2:44 AM, (XBOX)Caelum6613 said:

It’s just really demoralizing seeing a build on YouTube with mods like primed shred, fury, sure footed, or vigor and knowing I won’t be able to have those mods for potentially YEARS. And that’s assuming I login every single day.

I feel like this system really discourages new players from committing to this game. Is there a way this length of time can be shortened or removed? Could they be tied to something different besides times one has logged in?

It's one year and two months to have primed sure footed. You really only need that one. Although I suggest also getting primed fury and primed shred. Vigor is pretty useless tbh because it has anti-synergy with the meta. You can't even really fit it on hildryn comfortably. I think primed sure footed should be given earlier or be sold by baro because it's literally the best mod in the game. 

[vixenpixel]

3 hours ago, NecroPed said:

I still consider it a waste compared to other exilus. As well as because of me just not seeing it as beneficial as most people do. 

This is baffling to me. Even if this mod didn't protect user from own stagger and knockback it would be best in slot due to how bad exilus mods are and what a death-deterrant it is to be unable to be knocked down. If steel path enemies knock you down, they are quite likely to kill you while you are locked in animation. Primed sure footed is irreplaceable for all but maybe voruna, atlas and gauss. You arn't replacing it with power drift or some crap like that, +15 ability strength isn't worth replacing psf. Not in a million years. XD

[Qriist]

27 minutes ago, vixenpixel said:

It's one year and two months to have primed sure footed. You really only need that one.

27 minutes ago, vixenpixel said:

I think primed sure footed should be given earlier or be sold by baro because it's literally the best mod in the game. 

The worship of PSF throughout this thread is frankly bizarre to me. It's genuinely nice QoL but there's virtually no scenario where I would consider it to be a lifesaver. Energy sapping Eximus and Nullifiers are substantially more of a threat any given time than a random knockdown is - and that's assuming the knockdown wasn't easily avoided in the first place.

  

19 minutes ago, vixenpixel said:

Even if this mod didn't protect user from own stagger and knockback

Oh I see now, you don't know how to aim. EVERYTHING SUDDENLY MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

  

19 minutes ago, vixenpixel said:

You arn't replacing it with power drift or some crap like that, +15 ability strength isn't worth replacing psf. Not in a million years. XD

lol ok

Spoiler

Nezha

Spoiler

Gyre

Spoiler

Xaku

Spoiler

Saryn

Spoiler

Citrine

Spoiler

Titania

Spoiler

Excalibur Umbra

Spoiler

Valkyr

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Qriist

[NecroPed]

1 hour ago, vixenpixel said:

This is baffling to me. Even if this mod didn't protect user from own stagger and knockback it would be best in slot due to how bad exilus mods are and what a death-deterrant it is to be unable to be knocked down. If steel path enemies knock you down, they are quite likely to kill you while you are locked in animation. Primed sure footed is irreplaceable for all but maybe voruna, atlas and gauss. You arn't replacing it with power drift or some crap like that, +15 ability strength isn't worth replacing psf. Not in a million years. XD

I just don't really care about knockback protection. It's also got higher drain than most/all other exilus mods giving less room for your other mods.

Edited June 20, 2023 by NecroPed

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2023-06-17 at 8:02 PM, Exxion said:

I have all of those primed mods and haven't bothered fusing any of them to maximum. They really aren't that important.

Primed Sure Footed used to be borderline mandatory back when tether enemies were practically uncounterable, but it's usually a waste of a mod slot now.

 

7 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

I just don't really care about knockback protection.

I can only speak for myself, but the only times I die anymore are due to chains of CC.  PSF is an irreplaceable survivability mod on many of my builds, whether I use AOE weapons or not.  There are only three types of builds that I don't use it on:

• builds where the frame has innate access to status immunity (Nezha Prime or Revenant, for example)
• builds where the frame needs every possible bit of range it can have (Xaku, Maim Equinox)
• builds with a weirdly useful exilus augment (Wisp).

 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

15 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I don't exclusively use em but in a horde shooter, it's a good idea. Especially when DE pushes you towards em.

LOL Understandable. I'm in the same boat. Though thanks to Poise I don't use PSF as much for my many loadouts. And it's mostly Grineer fraction that does most of the CC that PSF is needed.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

5 hours ago, Qriist said:

The worship of PSF throughout this thread is frankly bizarre to me. It's genuinely nice QoL but there's virtually no scenario where I would consider it to be a lifesaver. Energy sapping Eximus and Nullifiers are substantially more of a threat any given time than a random knockdown is - and that's assuming the knockdown wasn't easily avoided in the first place.

  

Oh I see now, you don't know how to aim. EVERYTHING SUDDENLY MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

  

lol ok

  Reveal hidden contents

Nezha

  Reveal hidden contents

Gyre

  Reveal hidden contents

Xaku

  Reveal hidden contents

Saryn

  Reveal hidden contents

Citrine

  Reveal hidden contents

Titania

  Reveal hidden contents

Excalibur Umbra

  Reveal hidden contents

Valkyr

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Shaming people for using AOE weapons doesn't make you right. Maybe you should go count how many primaries are AOE have an aoe fire mode. You must love to do things like farming in the slowest, most inefficient way

[Pakaku]

35 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Shaming people for using AOE weapons doesn't make you right. Maybe you should go count how many primaries are AOE have an aoe fire mode. You must love to do things like farming in the slowest, most inefficient way

Likewise, you shouldn't shame people for not wanting to use AOE just because you apparently have too little patience to use anything "inefficient" (and yes, I shouldn't be shaming you for your impatience, but for the sake of argument...)

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

14 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Likewise, you shouldn't shame people for not wanting to use AOE just because you apparently have too little patience to use anything "inefficient" (and yes, I shouldn't be shaming you for your impatience, but for the sake of argument...)

I wasn't shaming anyone until they did. Learn to read. I was debating the usefulness of psf. If someone starts their argument shaming others it's fair game.

Edited June 20, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Packetdancer]

15 hours ago, Pakaku said:

I feel like I semi-solved the issue with Penance by subsuming Pillage over Harrow's 1, and what I usually end up doing is casting it at full shields before Penance. So it will send out an AoE ring to sap shields/armour, and while it's doing that, I cast Penance to drop shields, and by the time that's done I should have shields back from Pillage (or cast it again to deactivate it for early shields.)

As an aside, I find this useful for Valkyr, too. I put it over her 1... I can hit Pillage, cast Paralysis to detonate shields for an AoE and knockback on enemies, then Pillage comes back and hey, fresh shields!

 

11 hours ago, Qriist said:

Oh I see now, you don't know how to aim. EVERYTHING SUDDENLY MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

Eh, to be fair, I can see reason for it beyond "lack of ability to aim." I'm (usually) pretty good at aiming my AoE weapons far away, in part because my preferred play-style is what some friends 'fondly' refer to as "insane bow sniper." But especially in multiplayer you can have someone dash in front of you unexpectedly right as you fire, etc. So I've still got occasional scenarios where I self-stagger because of unexpected outside influences.

Plus we've got the case of, y'know, Hate Incarnon, where even light melee attacks will cause an explosion. (Which I find a mildly baffling design choice, considering light melee attacks tend to be used on targets within melee range... but whatever.)

ANYWAY.

All that aside, I think part of the problem is not that Primed Sure-Footed is "mandatory" but rather that a lot of people sure talk like it is. So if someone who is new-ish to Warframe and has just gotten to the Steel Path and is going "Uh, okay, how do I build to survive this stuff" goes to look up builds and advice, it feels like easily 75% of the stuff out there is like "And of course, you must use Primed Sure-Footed."

And those folks new-ish to Warframe, the ones who have just gotten to the Steel Path, are among the least likely to have the necessary number of login days to own PSF. They're also less likely to have hours and hours of build-balancing and whatnot under their belts to know what their alternatives are. They're some of the most likely to take the "you must, of course, use PSF" attitude many builds out there have at face value... so of course they're going to feel frustrated that there's no way they can get it. Can't go grind it out, can't buy it off Warframe.market, can't do anything other than wait for more than a year of login days.

I don't care if they make PSF easier to get, personally. But I think that the root cause of the issue is actually the community talking like PSF is this holy grail that must be used in absolutely every build. And that? That's not on DE... that one's on us. (Collectively, as a playerbase. Not necessarily "the people in this specific thread.")

Edited June 20, 2023 by Packetdancer
Don't post before caffeine, or you might write the wrong ability name and not even notice for several hours...

[NecroPed]

11 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

 

I can only speak for myself, but the only times I die anymore are due to chains of CC.  PSF is an irreplaceable survivability mod on many of my builds, whether I use AOE weapons or not.  There are only three types of builds that I don't use it on:

• builds where the frame has innate access to status immunity (Nezha Prime or Revenant, for example)
• builds where the frame needs every possible bit of range it can have (Xaku, Maim Equinox)
• builds with a weirdly useful exilus augment (Wisp).

 

I can understand that, though I feel I should note that one of the reasons I don't like knockback protection is it makes me less attentive to what would cause the knockback, making my gameplay lazier.

I'd rather die because of knockback and actively work towards trying to prevent it from happening with my playstyle rather than equipping a mod to cancel it out.

[Numerounius]

On 2023-06-17 at 5:44 PM, (XBOX)Caelum6613 said:

It’s just really demoralizing seeing a build on YouTube with mods like primed shred, fury, sure footed, or vigor and knowing I won’t be able to have those mods for potentially YEARS. And that’s assuming I login every single day.

I feel like this system really discourages new players from committing to this game. Is there a way this length of time can be shortened or removed? Could they be tied to something different besides times one has logged in?

I think the problem is the lack of alternatives, or the knowledge of them. Prime sure footed, the best alternatives I have used in my long playtime is through a status effect immunity ability in which a new player would not be able to know about especially if they are following guides and if they have reached the point to know about those alternatives then there should be no reason to time gate the log-in mods from them.

 

I don't know if DE is intending to keep these mods as single-copy only or if they are looking or ways of expanding them to get more than one, which is something that plays into the decision from a gameplay perspective. I'd also like to see it expanded to other single-use items were put into a revised system such as the Zenith or amalgram serration.

 

Plat I think would be the obvious choice which I think it would devalue guide following like you are doing but I already see people being suckered into outright buying mods to make a guide build. Second choice would be to put it somewhere that is difficult to reach but not outright impossible like having it be purchasable with narmer isoplast for example so that sense of timegates is still there but not to the extent that it is out of your control. 

[SpicyDinosaur]

On 2023-06-18 at 11:08 PM, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

But then you are stuck with a focus school you don't want to use in some cases simply because a player cannot get psf. There is no comparison to psf when it comes to it not interfering with a build. It is an extremely important mod and down playing that will only keep DE from letting others get it. Psf is an incredibly important mod.

It's called handspring. I only use PSF on Eidolons and PT. And I used to use handspring for Eidolons before PSF was a thing.

[Packetdancer]

26 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

It's called handspring. I only use PSF on Eidolons and PT. And I used to use handspring for Eidolons before PSF was a thing.

Sure, but the vast majority of build guides don't even mention the existence of Handspring, much less suggest it as an alternative. And this game has a lot of mods, you must admit. I've run into people who knew about PSF (from guides) but didn't know Handspring existed, so had no idea they could go try to farm that one.

Which is a lot of why I think this "But I need Prime Sure-Footed!" view of things is one of the few issues with the game that's largely of our own making, and has very little to do with DE.

[SpicyDinosaur]

3 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:

Sure, but the vast majority of build guides don't even mention the existence of Handspring, much less suggest it as an alternative. And this game has a lot of mods, you must admit. I've run into people who knew about PSF (from guides) but didn't know Handspring existed, so had no idea they could go try to farm that one.

Which is a lot of why I think this "But I need Prime Sure-Footed!" view of things is one of the few issues with the game that's largely of our own making, and has very little to do with DE.

I... didn't say the opposite. Just that there are alternatives.

[kebra]

Even if all these mods were given to you, you wouldn't have enough Endo to max them out...

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

2 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

It's called handspring. I only use PSF on Eidolons and PT. And I used to use handspring for Eidolons before PSF was a thing.

That's not a good alternative sorry to say.

[SpicyDinosaur]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

That's not a good alternative sorry to say.

It worked fine before PSF existed, and the power creep has only amplified since then. Most players don't have PSF and they all manage just fine.

 

If you are doing level cap content you could make a case for saying PSF is a game changer, but anything else is fine (unless there's something I'm forgetting that I've just neglected as far as activities go...) Again, I do hour long SP runs in high end SP just fine not using PSF. And I've been doing it using Banshee lately, (though I use Rolling Guard on her, which gives her brief periods of immunity over time. But Rolling Guard is readily available to everyone in one way or another, as is playing frames like Oberon and others with status immunity abilities.)

[Packetdancer]

14 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I... didn't say the opposite. Just that there are alternatives.

My point was that while you are correct there are alternatives, the alternatives are not necessarily readily discoverable to new players. And folks often say, "Well, they can always Google", but the vast majority of results on something like "prevent knockdown Warframe" will be guides talking about how important Primed Sure-Footed is.

Which means the players are often still going to go "Wait, I have to wait 400 days to get that mod?" and come here to post about it.

[SpicyDinosaur]

13 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:

My point was that while you are correct there are alternatives, the alternatives are not necessarily readily discoverable to new players. And folks often say, "Well, they can always Google", but the vast majority of results on something like "prevent knockdown Warframe" will be guides talking about how important Primed Sure-Footed is.

Which means the players are often still going to go "Wait, I have to wait 400 days to get that mod?" and come here to post about it.

Either way, I have now suggested an alternative. :) Though they shouldn't have had to hear it from a random commenter on the forums with other people insisting that PSF is absolutely a must and there's no good replacement.

Youtubers are the ones I blame the most for this, though there are others just here in this thread insisting Handspring simply can not replace PSF. But I doubt any new players will be doing level cap content, and if they are they probably have a lot more things to work for to get there that make PSF not their primary priority.

[(XBOX)Caelum6613]

Am a new player that has played for about 2 months. Really like this game but really irks me that I can’t get primed shred, sure footed, and fury(don’t really care about primed vigor) after almost 2 years of logins, and that’s assuming I log in every single day.

do you guys see any hope that they can rework this system? One idea I had was that every 100 days you could choose between weapons AND the primed mods. If they could be bought with plat I think would be a fair way to do things as well.

[Leqesai]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Caelum6613 said:

do you guys see any hope that they can rework this system?

No

[Merrcenary]

no. there is no need for it