Warframe Story Pack Feedback Thread!

[Capitate_]

I think this could genuinely be a really positive thing for this game as even with the help of another player, getting caught up to the most recent stuff simply takes too long and giving new players a way to experience what the endgame is like without invested hundreds of hours sounds amazing but it would have to be done in the right way. The main things that I can think of off the top of my head would be some sort of video/cinematic to catch people up on the major story beats but more importantly that it gives them the right gear and right mods to explore the new content, this could even be themed in the sense of giving them the warframe tied to said update fully kitted with their signature weapon. I think what FFXIV is a good example of what can be done so letting people get the skip in the range of €20 could be such a good way to get new players into the game and actually help them stay.

[Unknown924]

The idea of paying to skip story in Warframe just feels bad, so I think any form of story skip should NOT be paid.  Having an item pack that gives players enough gear that they can dive right into the missions instead of having to farm in order to have the equipment to complete them is a lot more acceptable.

One way to accomplish the goal of letting new players get to the latest content is to make the latest content available at all times with warnings about story spoilers and difficulty if you don't have proper equipment.  This could be combined with a progression pack that provides enough basic equipment that players can buy it and jump right in. When new content is available, the previous content gets locked behind the progression system and the content that was just added becomes the always available content.

The progression pack could also do things like remove grind based requirements for story missions so someone could buy the pack and just play though all the story content without having to work on things like star chart unlocking or rep grinding between story missions.

An additional though is that the loaner system from the circuit could be used with preset frames/weapons for the latest content, allowing it to be played for free.  By limiting the loaner system to the latest content only, players are incentivized to buy a progression pack or grind if they want to play the rest of Warframe.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

this would kill the game, just like the many other MMOs i have played. new players will have 0 attachment to the game due to all skipping the story, causing warframe to need to add more content faster, because everyone spent almost no time on the older content.

 

this game is a VERY heavy story based game, skipping it, will end up like many other great games that died, due to this.

[RobWasHere]

This shouldn't be a thing. New players don't necessarily HAVE TO play the newest update, but if you absolutely want to just offer what New War had - stock items to progress through some grindy stages. Streamline New War chain with for example not requiring go to Veil Proxima to smash crystal with Paracesis. Or even making story-related crafted items requirements not having a craft timer like Umbra had. Necramech and Railjack are the worst offenders here, time wise.

Adding quest skip packs will definitely be seen as "p2w" from the outside even if they are not really it. It will also place clueless players in difficult places where they shouldn't be yet.

Edited October 27, 2023 by RobWasHere

[S2Weak]

Flag the player who skipped quests on their hp bar or somewhere obvious so their teammates know they have no idea how to play the game and thus provide aid.

Or flag those who have completed quests so it acts like a semi "real" MR.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

I see this option being a positive one. Having more players choice on how we engage with Warframe on an individual level is always a great idea. 

This also opens up the game to new players who would otherwise not try it because of the timegate to get where we are now.

So I'm all for this. But I would like to see DE do one critical thing:

Explain to players what they are doing, what they are getting by choosing this and also what they could be potentially missing out on.

The forums could be flooded with posts from players being critical of warframe lacking story/lore content when vets know that's simply not true.

Now I know we can't fix stupid but when this purchase is made, players should be made aware of what content they are skipping and also be told that all major story/quests etc can be played at any time.

[kyori]

After the devstream, I'd strongly said no. To keep warframe 100% f2p model but also able to earn plat thru trading. Story at this point has somewhat become 'not so complete' because a whole lot of story were gone with events or operations in the past. New players won't get to know the full story anyway.

But after Rebecca comes out to talk in this thread... I'd say sure, why not? Let's try something. Perhaps Rebecca can come out some great ideas! :D

[Wayloxia]

As someone who has brought friends into the game by talking about current content and then struggled to keep them playing because we had to do so much to catch them up and also being on other side of the table in FFXIV, I fail to see how this is a bad idea since it's entirely optional. 

When I started Warframe during the Plains of Eidolon release, I was fortunate enough to be in a place in my life with too much time on my hands and the overwhelming amount of content was a great to chew through. It also just fits my playstyle as a player. However in FFXIV, I was asked by a friend to play with him and I was so overwhelmed by ARR that I didn't know if I could do it. He offered that I make a 2nd character and get an MSQ skip while it was on sale and we went and did some of the more current stuff together and I had a blast. I went from "oh my god this is a slog" to "okay I can go back to that 1st character and do some MSQ if I want and then swap back if I need a break" and it saved me from quitting the game entirely. 

Another way to put it is that there's people who are never going to care about story. I have friends who want to just shoot things and they don't want to do the story at all especially because it's solo. This skip would get them to where I am and maybe (copium) they'd be so intrigued with the story we're doing in Whispers in the Walls that they'd want to go back and do some of the story that they've heard so much good stuff about. 

I feel like if it's $15-25, I would be more than willing to skip if I felt like it would help my enjoyment of the game. It isn't even like FFXIV in the sense where I can't go back and play what I skipped or the wild amount of money you have to pay to even play Destiny 2 and half of the story is not even available. Keeping the price high enough to be a mild deterrent (since people don't want people just skipping to skip) but also being low enough (It would cost as much as Hollow Knight if it was around $15) to not be unreasonable to spend on a game you wanna try, if that makes sense. 

Plus we already have little pay to skips by just outright paying plat to get warframes without doing the quest or the content they come from. I know plenty of people who bought Atlas, Styanax, or Khora because they just didn't wanna do the quest or farm.

[cephalon_corgi]

In a game like warframe I think story skip doesn't make sense at all, making the grind less "grindy" might be better, or even offering an option to play through the story without needing star chart/mr progression with premade equipment.

If all is for the new stuff, then dont put hard caps on the new content and allow new players to try it with premade loadouts like in Duviri.

[Koldraxon-732]

I personally am against the idea of throwing new players who have no idea how the game works in the deepest end possible like this. Especially without a specialised quest to catch them up and drill in each gameplay element they will be unlocking. I like the idea on the grounds that people who played on one platform can use this to get to speed on this platform, but unlocking all the rewards? I don't think that far is necessary for what you want to do - which is get newer people faster access to the content they yearn to experience.

Here is my proposal: Drifter's Path.

Proposal's baseline:
Teshin's Cave + random gear + rental assets to act as a 'Drifter Path'.
This would skip having to force-unlock quests linked to getting to Whispers by providing a literal backdoor to entering any quest.

Tempestarii, or a Void-addled Railjack, would include an out-of-place fully-suited Drifter as a temporary crewmate to repair any damage acrrued.
The Archwing would be an unmodded default one, along with related weapons.
Snake, the unmoddable mech from Heart of Deimos, will stand in for the lack of your own.

These will serve in lieu of any un-owned requisites.

This route will be free, but require you to complete Duviri Paradox, which last I checked was available after Vor's Prize.

This would allow you to go into any quest with randomised gear from Teshin's Cave, Transfer out into Drifter with the Lotus Hand, and use their Sirocco.
You'd obtain the Quest's intended rewards. Secondary completion via the other Path will result in a large stockpile of resources as loot, rather than just a Riven.

Some quest elements may benefit from additional Drifter dialogue to smooth this feature over, or be locked behind other quests you can access via this alternative route:

Second Dream, Heart of Deimos, New War.
Completing Second Dream would be required for Operator customisation. Heart of Deimos to acquaint yourself with the Entrati. New War for obvious reasons.
These three are all you'd need to do in the Drifter Path to get to Whispers. Of course, there's one small drawback of this route:
Drifter Path starts you in Teshin's Cave, meaning your gear is randomised, and the provided Mech and Railjack are unmoddable. You'd also be Drifter with Sirocco.

 

[2wentyThre3]

- Skip seems okay in principal.
- If implemented, skip should be free.

- Options to Co-op story mode with people that have completed up to Whispers in the Walls would be better.
- Reducing grind and craft times on lower MR gear would be better.
- Increasing drop rates or altering drop tables would be better.

Edited October 27, 2023 by 2wentyThre3

[_Illindi_]

I am just going to put it bluntly, this is a bad idea. Watch the clip, and it gets really poignant some 20 minutes in and the argument is a good 20minutes long in of it self...
But in short - The easier you make something the more cheapen the actual thing. Once you have grandmothers walking up to the peak of the highest mountain for tea, that makes it less of a thing to all. In this case you make the whole story arc and the rewards as cheap as that. Not only to the ones buying it but to anyone who has done the deed before.
Nice to have to those quick teleports in the open worlds. Except it made them the easy to reach peak meaning that they are no more than a big tileset we can zip around. Remember why the Itzal was the one to use? The blink ability. It was so abused they, the archwings and Titania as well, all got it. Whom uses the Itzal now aside for the MR? None really.
We got the k-drives as a step up to move around but we still used archwings to get around, they are faster. But that hindered new players because they had to get them first and that got in the way for them to join in. So now we have made that trek basically wasted time to get them at all. Why bother to have them at all now? Essentially wasted effort as we can skip past it. All in the name of making it easier for new players.
Every time you strip out your old content that way you basically make them wasted effort for all. I don't do Eidolons unless I need a transmuter now. That's all they are now,  a dispenser of an item I can't get elsewhere. Start selling them in the store and I will never enter the plains again. Not a joke, going there now just reminds me of how they used to be, an achievement to do. Now it is a reminder of wasted effort. And as it is so easy now, whomever is new and goes there won't feel that it is of any moment.

I know the point is to get people in through the door. But it isn't memorable to just get it all handed to you. In fact it is even worse because I am just being bribed to get in and I know it as a new or retuning player. As an old player, I know it is cheap as dirt and what I struggled to do is now worthless. There is no challenge and thusly the reward is basically worthless so why bother?

Do the recap cinematic if you want to but asking for money for the recap and rewards of the quests... why bother? You make the regular players now feel cheapened and the ones that do pay will not have any attachment anyway so it is a one time fee to get money and then they leave once they realise that they got the latest and then what? Pay to skip the next quest? That is what the complete prime pack is, what buy the new frame is. Once you are there, why play at all? Every sale in those categories is a warning sign because someone can't be arsed to play the game as designed. Yes, there are good solid reasons to buy frames and weapons at times - But the quests?

This is basically like offering a free book that is a pleasure to read which many consider a feat to do. A journey that those that have done it can say have done it with pride.
But also right next to it, have a quick recap for fee so they can say they know it as well but not just spend the hours to experience it. Which defeats the whole thing as a whole and since it is no longer an achievement, why buy it in the first place? What I am trying to get to is that making it all as easy as possible for new players you are also lessening the value of the whole for the totality of the userbase. This is the danger and all the examples above is about. Yes I use the word worthless a lot but that is the net result when you go down this route of pay to skip. As I see it.

Please do watch the video, it is timestamped to the start of the arguments, and please consider it before proceeding. He puts it a lot better than I ever do.
(edited due to missed words and typos to make it more legible.)

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by _Illindi_
typos and missed words and bad sentence structures, trying to make it more legible.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

33 minutes ago, ArdeKakka said:

add co-op story 

taxi a brotha to the new war

some limitiations like squad size are probably good

 

 

COOP STORY PLEASE MAN PLEASE

id say this would be better than pay to skip, especially since you could just do a Halo type thing, where the second character isnt actually there story-wise.

[JustinJustinJustinJustin]

As someone said I definitely think it should be like a pack structure on a quest per quest basis if it's implemented (ex: giv them a loaner build for the quest and if they complete it they get the associated quest reward so like a frame or upgrade)

Like if a MR 1 Excalibur buys his way to steel path, he's just gonna end up not knowing anything about the story or how to play.

 

Also it feels icky to me for some reason and I can't really place why.

 

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

Is this honestly necessary? Players will be skipping major tutorials in these quests, something that this game severely lacks already. It feels like you're taking a page from the unholy book of Ubisoft, something that should've been burnt years ago. I'd advise you not to go that route. In fact, more than anything, I've been hoping for a more detailed Codex that lets player keep track of major events & establishes a cohesive timeline.

If players have to skip content instead of learning & adapting to each experience that said content provides, that calls into question the quality of said content. You're getting a hard pass from me on this. Warframe is an experience that needs to be embraced in every single facet.

[Numerounius]

My idea:

Make the untradeable plat and/or reduce the cost of required items to match the plat so that players can start on the content ASAP without needing to spend money.

Eg. The required Railjack costs 400p right now which is well in excess of the starting 50p forcing players to pay for plat to get it, increasing the starting untradeable plat everyone gets to 500p or reducing the cost of the railjack to 40p allows someone to instantly purchase it, repeat for the overall cost of the plat skip and associated items.

Now I think there might need to be extra restrictions put on that plat if done this way but it gives a good baseline approach.

I think this approach has a couple of meanings:

It isn't an outright pay to get plat to skip. You can start the content instantly without needing to spend money since you have enough plat to start out with.

Using the plat, you can fast track through the current storylines without needing to be pressured into spending the plat to just get to the latest content. Use it to rush an item or two, grab a frame or two that can be used for the experience of obtaining the necramech and railjack instead of outright skipping all of that.

It gives everyone an equal option, since the current players would also get the bump in plat value they can then also use it to grab a frame or two to experience the new content with.

[ReonShield]

I believe streamlining the story would be a good alternative, make things like the railjack and the necromech obtainable through the story, so that as a new player I can play the entire story without stopping.

This would hook new players into the deep lore of Warframe, it would get them the operator, drifter, necromech and railjack and it would get them acquainted with the gameplay more than enough.

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Require Vor’s Prize to be complete so there’s a baseline of game understanding. 

& then, those players will play the newest quest without any understanding of the story

& before you say: "But there will be a recap explaining the story so far", show don't tell, those players need to experience the game for themselves, at their own pace, not read/listen to a 20 min lore dump before playing the game

 

You say that those 10 years of content are too much to go through before arriving to the new & could turn people away, but rushing it into their hands & then having them back-track to finish the previous content after the new is all kinds of stupid

_{EDIT: Well, not exactly stupid, but I don't know what word to use here}

Edited October 27, 2023 by -Krism-

[Heal]

Its funny how when Duviri came out, I had this conversation with my warframe friend – how with how many years of content this game has it is becoming harder and harder to connect completely new people to the new content. With Duviri the idea to make it a new starting point really didnt hit.

And now we are here at the point of a potential story skip option for plat. First and foremost, I personally do not care how people want to spend their money. So if someone really only wants to play a new game for the most recent content and doesnt mind to pay, go right ahead.

But on the flip side, I do think that it might lead to certain issues regarding new player retention as well as difficulty balance and other frustrations. I also believe that there is no “quick fix” for this issue without overhauling some of the systems in place. Yes, just like Rebecca has said a lot of the grinds have become better, but the really early start is still just as bad.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION right now?

I think the best option CURRENTLY without overhauling a lot of the systems in place is probably something akin to having a free “story pass” where a new player gets to play the replaybable story quests with preprovided inventory & loadout in chronological order.

This would differ to Rebecca's proposed idea in that the new player still plays through the story quests themselves, goes through them one by one and gets to experience the lore instead of just skipping it all to the end. This would reduce the story grind significantly, it would still keep the aspect of unlocking junctions and planets as a secondary goal for new players functional and it would keep story quests outside the MR restrictions bubble. And most importantly new players actually get to connect to the lore and understand where it started and where it progressed to (if this can be done Co-Op with your WF friend to experience together, even better).

Looking into the future

Though going forward I would like to see the game itself become more accessible for new players and change certain things to make progression more engaging and interesting.

Right now, players start on Earth, “backtrack” to Mercury to then open Mars, take a quick visit to Phobos but also see Deimos, then go to Ceres, Jupiter, quick visit to Europa, then Saturn and finally to start Natah, Uranus. This progession is so messy and hard to follow and a new player just asks why? Call everything before Natah “Act 1 - Finding your place". Then call everything from Natah to Sedna “Act 2 - Finding your identity". And then everything between from Sedna to New War would be “Act 3 - Finding your purpose" (the names are just examples). Make a progession window (similar to the new update overview window for the Dagath update) for all these acts so new players can easily follow what is recommended to do (such as what quests, nodes, requirements to finish for what junction and a recommended order), mark side/warframe quests as side/warframe quests so new players dont get stuck on those thinking they HAVE to finish them for progression and also use these progession windows to teach basic concepts that werent covered in Vor's Price.

I think this could reduce the time to get to the newest content immensely.

 

I was helped by friends back when I started playing WF and I have helped countless new players myself. I have seen both people that wanted to grind everything themselves, wanted to take their time as well as people who liked the story quests but hated getting there who spend money to speed up certain things (railjack, necramech, etc.). From all those experiences, I have seen that the quests from Natah forward have always been an integral part to people's curiousity to keep playing the game and seeing more of the lore. So I really do believe that not even having to play these quests would take away from player retention whereas a quicker way to at least experience them could help to make the game more accessible.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Heal

[PookieNumnums]

I understand the motivation but I feel it is a bad idea. Here is why:

 

There is a whole lot of explanation and character development as to who we are, why we are, and what we are. There is also a lot of character development with lotus, the Queen's, teshin, and ordis that are pretty integral to understanding the setting and experience as a whole. 

 

The only way forward I see if you're going to let them skip all the important stuff (literally) is to produce a series or film that covers all of it. Something they'll have to watch if they wanna skip so that they understand. Animated comic would be a good option. Could probably cover it all in 30 minutes.  Aside from learning certain game systems and mechanics, there isn't a whole lot they need out of the quests.

 

With the way the game is set up, quest missions tend to feel repetitive since for the most part the missions are regular missions with some dialogue added.  

 

What would help, doing down this path or not, would be to streamline all the currencies in the game. Remove "standing" types like quill ostron syndicate Solaris u, Solaris V, tokens etc etc.. and convert it all down to focus. Then as you earn focus points you also earn focus tokens that you can then spend with any and all npc groups. Splitting time among all the different money types is a real strain and progression gate. Buff focus boons, let people spend focus. 

 

Another good idea would be letting us spend mastery. The game tracks how much xp was earned with frames and weapons. Let us spend that xp as a currency for other things. Perhaps spend that with NPCs for ranks. 

So, spend mastery (tracked excess  xp) for ranks in syndicates, and spend focus for npc goods. Buff focus boons and remove focus caps. Then those same players can advance through actual content at a much higher rate after they skip their quests since skipping quests doesn't auto complete the butt loads of content islands. 

Grinding will have way more purpose and utility that way. 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by PookieNumnums

[Sean]

Don't make it cost platinum or anything.

Give it to players via the codex and give those players temp-versions of items that mattered. Think of how the Circuit gives items that are unavailable to people.

 

Additionally, allow co-op for all quests and don't bother "balancing" for it.

Can limit quest co-op to just one additional player and even requiring the client to have completed the quest prior.

Teleport the client to wherever the host is and have key moments only depend on the location of the host.

 

 

Though tangentially, the story itself doesn't matter in its current form as it's fed to players in a way that doesn't make sense.

 

The starchart in its current form needs to be fixed. And yes... Fixed.

The story that is presented to players is currently given out of order, and this is only worsened by old events that played major roles in the overall story being only accessible via a community-ran wiki.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Sean

[TennoPain]

Just Super Buff new players (like x100 percent) if you care about THEM being locked behing some time gate (us veterans enjoy new tenno ) 

If you want to earn money you can do it in a lot of other ways there are like 1000000 ways to earn money thatr players would trow money at you.

Also who would invest real money in skip the story ??? alt accounts ???

You can make a lore that goes around it its easy af youst think about it.

[PublikDomain]

Newbies don't want to grind, veterans don't want to babysit. That's understandable.

But if you add a skip (paid or even free), you'll still have newbies that need to grind and still have veterans that need to babysit them.

New players cannot buy skill and knowledge. You cannot sell them skill and knowledge. Dumping newbies into the newest (and hardest) content in the game will not prepare them for success. They won't know what's happening, or who is who, or why things matter. They won't know who the Orokin are, who the Entrati are, why there are two Loids, who MitW is or why he matters, what the Void is, even what the Warframes are. They won't know their Drifter, they won't know their Operator, they won't know the Lotus or Ballas or Erra. They won't have the mods they need, or the frames they need, or the weapons they need. Even if they buy those things too, they still won't know how to use them or mod them. They won't have any of the mechanical skills developed by actually playing the game. And they'll be dumped in with veteran players trying to play the same content, where they'll get to sit in a corner and be carried with nothing to do.

A skip (paid or even free) is not the right answer. It won't solve any problems, and will only leave new players who pay for that service lost and unprepared.

Instead ask yourselves: why does it take so long for a new player to get caught up? Why do veterans refuse to go back and experience this content with new players? Because the NPE is grindy for newbies, and babysitting is boring for veterans. Make the NPE less grindy and less babysitting-y and maybe players won't mind playing it.

• Streamline the Starchart's main path so there are fewer nodes to progress through to get to big story points.
• Reduce the remaining arbitrary timegates like Mastery and crafting requirements.
• Turn old events into quests so new players have a more exciting time playing around the Starchart.
• Add more of the important mods as guaranteed progression items.
• Move areas like PoE off the main path so newbies don't get tricked into wasting time on content sinks they're not ready for.
• Turn Steel Path into a personal modifier so newbies and veterans aren't segregated.
• Merge mission modifiers (like Void Flood, Fissure, Nightmare, Alert, Invasion, etc.) so the starchart is less fragmented.
• Add mechanics like Squad Support (from Scarlet Spear), and Player Alerts (help beacons that advertise the session to others), and a Helper Queue (like from Wayfinder, y'know that other game you're publishing?) so new players can get the extra help they need.

There are many ways to keep improving the NPE that will do much more good than a paid skip. Speeding up the NPE is a good thing, but it can't be in a way that leaves new players unprepared and uninformed.

Edited October 27, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Ottofyre]

I am in the "for it" camp.

A lot of older games provide a way of boosting new players to current content. It's nothing new. I think the Story Pack idea is great because it fills the player in on the lore while catching them up.

I have a lot of sympathy for people who are busy all day, don't have much time to play and "fall behind" on content. It's not a great feeling when you think you are holding everyone back when they play with you.  And when you're the one ahead, it's not a great feeling knowing they feel that way.

Personally, I haven't seen or thought of a compelling argument against Story Packs and the alternative suggestions I've seen all have their own issues. I guess one question to ask is - Since FFXIV seems to be the inspiration for this, does it seem to have any of the problems that people are saying it will cause? I don't think it does.

 

But in the end I trust DE to do whatever they feel is best for the long-term health of the game and I won't be fussed either way.

[dominikun]

I think a story skip option is a good thing, no major downsides

If a new player decides to skip it's because:

• They want to play with friends - friends are there to teach them things
• They just want gameplay - they're already searching the internet for meta stuff, they'll manage
• They want to see the new thing - they'll see the new thing and be fine, propably return to older quests and learn

The kind of stuff that would make a new player quit (modding being complicated and having functionally no tutorial for it, feeling useless because more experienced players in the squad steamroll the mission) is there anyways and skip won't influence it in any way

The only things I think are mandatory for the skip to work as an option are:

• Good tutorials(the one for frames in Duviri Paradox was great, we may need the one for Operator/Drifter don't remember) that are mandatory even with the skip
• Granted quest equipment that is already modded(Circuit loan builds are fine for that)
• Enough Star Chart unlocks

Optionally:

• Maybe an option to choose a frame to get along with the build(by the time a player finishes story they'd have a few frames aside from a starter frame, let's give them one) from a list of frames that are not super complex or gimmicky(That being said maybe all frames bought from market should have a loan build in them already? Would be more friendly for new players)
• Maybe some plat

Provided the mandatory stuff I listed is there it should be fine