Petition for auction market in the game

[--iNTRoVeRT--]

On 2023-11-08 at 5:33 PM, Silligoose said:

An auction house system would be great for players, but it could potentially be bad for the developer's revenue as the avg item price would likely drop with an auction house system, so we haven't gotten it despite the various petitions and requests, even after a decade.

would have said yes,
but let's be honest, people legit don't know what will exactly happen to the prices. As bout 10 say it will drop and other 10 say it will skyrocket. 

[Silligoose]

On 2023-11-09 at 12:12 PM, --iNTRoVeRT-- said:

it actually won't, due to the fact of items being higher price (as it now would be easier to trade them), hence the higher need for more plat, hence new players would rather buy prime bundles or plat packs to buy from the market.

58 minutes ago, --iNTRoVeRT-- said:

would have said yes,
but let's be honest, people legit don't know what will exactly happen to the prices. As bout 10 say it will drop and other 10 say it will skyrocket. 

It is simply the application of the laws of supply and demand. I believe it is fair to say that more supply would be more readily available within the peer-2-peer market with an auction house, as transactions will be streamlined, prompting more players (like me), who can't currently be bothered to go through the current process to sell assets for a bit of plat. to actually start selling our assets via the auction house, increasing supply. When supply increases and demand remains the same, price decreases. It is a basic overview of a facet of supply and demand.

Words are nice and all, but we actually see this in practice: When DE unvaults assets high in demand, supply becomes greater and price for said assets falls on the peer-2-peer market.

People who bring up the point of bots being able to buy up everything, thus artificially creating higher demand and lower supply... I don't know. There is a limit on how many trades can be completed per day and I suppose it would depend on plat in circulation, how easy it is to fake plat and credits and how lax DE's anti-cheat protocols are. I suppose there's an outside chance for that theory to play out, but I don't think it is likely at all.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Silligoose

[--iNTRoVeRT--]

9 hours ago, Silligoose said:

It is simply the application of the laws of supply and demand. I believe it is fair to say that more supply would be more readily available within the peer-2-peer market with an auction house, as transactions will be streamlined, prompting more players (like me), who can't currently be bothered to go through the current process to sell assets for a bit of plat. to actually start selling our assets via the auction house, increasing supply. When supply increases and demand remains the same, price decreases. It is a basic overview of a facet of supply and demand.

Words are nice and all, but we actually see this in practice: When DE unvaults assets high in demand, supply becomes greater and price for said assets falls on the peer-2-peer market.

People who bring up the point of bots being able to buy up everything, thus artificially creating higher demand and lower supply... I don't know. There is a limit on how many trades can be completed per day and I suppose it would depend on plat in circulation, how easy it is to fake plat and credits and how lax DE's anti-cheat protocols are. I suppose there's an outside chance for that theory to play out, but I don't think it is likely at all.

u legit gave good points for both price variables. so wat is it? going up or down? 
u said it will bring higher supply cause all lazy people would start to trade
u also said it would bring the supply lower with high demand cause of easier trade and `bots` (i say `bots` cause lets hope de would at least detect it(not gonna talk bout banning))
so again, price going up or down? wen people will uniformly say and stick to 1 version or give good points for wat wen and how. i will mainly disregard the price convos as they lead to nothing

again 10 people say up
10 say down
and none say of wat how and why(yes u can count some demand/supply convo but i can say i posted air on wfm of popular items in high demand for really low prices, officially trading air and making the system break as i have the lowest price, hence highest chance to be texted(i legit did it and for 10 min all the people trying to sell or buy prime mods got scammed for time with air)).

Edited November 19, 2023 by --iNTRoVeRT--

[Silligoose]

On 2023-11-19 at 2:16 AM, --iNTRoVeRT-- said:

u legit gave good points for both price variables. so wat is it? going up or down? 
u said it will bring higher supply cause all lazy people would start to trade
u also said it would bring the supply lower with high demand cause of easier trade and `bots` (i say `bots` cause lets hope de would at least detect it(not gonna talk bout banning))
so again, price going up or down? wen people will uniformly say and stick to 1 version or give good points for wat wen and how. i will mainly disregard the price convos as they lead to nothing

again 10 people say up
10 say down
and none say of wat how and why(yes u can count some demand/supply convo but i can say i posted air on wfm of popular items in high demand for really low prices, officially trading air and making the system break as i have the lowest price, hence highest chance to be texted(i legit did it and for 10 min all the people trying to sell or buy prime mods got scammed for time with air)).

It would most likely go down in my opinion.

I'm not sure what you mean with posting air. I'm assuming it has something to do with false pricing (correct me if I'm wrong), but the difference between wfm and an auction house (provided it isn't absolute garbage) is that the prices shown on an auction house/automated marker/whatever one wants to call it, would be final. One wouldn't be able to put false prices out there and then deny the sale at that price. 

[--iNTRoVeRT--]

5 hours ago, Silligoose said:

It would most likely go down in my opinion.

I'm not sure what you mean with posting air. I'm assuming it has something to do with false pricing (correct me if I'm wrong), but the difference between wfm and an auction house (provided it isn't absolute garbage) is that the prices shown on an auction house/automated marker/whatever one wants to call it, would be final. One wouldn't be able to put false prices out there and then deny the sale at that price. 

by air i mean make a post of an item without having an item hence the `posting air` as u have nothing but air but still shift the value

And i don't get ur last part as it plays for auction instead of current trade. as `One wouldn't be able to put false prices out there and then deny the sale at that price. ` is a benefit of auction rather than current wfm or chat

[Silligoose]

6 hours ago, --iNTRoVeRT-- said:

by air i mean make a post of an item without having an item hence the `posting air` as u have nothing but air but still shift the value

And i don't get ur last part as it plays for auction instead of current trade. as `One wouldn't be able to put false prices out there and then deny the sale at that price. ` is a benefit of auction rather than current wfm or chat

Ah I see.

Indeed not being able to advertise false prices is a benefit for an auction house, as it would prevent false advertising or posting air.

[GoPRO_Destiny]

Currently, in-game trading involve registering a product in the unofficial Warframe Market and transacting separately through whispers based on that information, which is cumbersome and inconvenient.

 

It would be much more convenient to register products within the game and enable transactions in real time, but is there any reason not to add this function?

 

If the problem is server overload, wouldn't it be possible to limit the number of product registrations per account and deregister them after a certain period of time?

(3 products for each type, 10 types of products can be registered, automatic registration is canceled after one week)

 

I think that using this method can reduce server overload and make it more convenient for users.

 

Please, let me know if you have more good ideas.

Edited November 26, 2023 by GoPRO_Destiny
add more content

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

You can already do this in Maroo’s Bazar at the cost of not being able to play your character. 
 

I’m not actually sure what the general stance is about trading actually. Would be interesting to see some opinions on this.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Use warfram.market 

[trst]

You can already "set up" trades in Maroo's Bazaar and in Dojos. But you still have to manually offer items up to trade to the seller and the seller needs to manually finish the trade. So it's more of another way to advertise trades in-game.

If you're talking about automated trade (aka: auction house) then that's something that'll hopefully never happen. Since the game's "economy" is propped up by inconvenience which would be destroyed by an AH.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb GoPRO_Destiny:

Currently, in-game trading involve registering a product in the unofficial Warframe Market and transacting separately through whispers based on that information, which is cumbersome and inconvenient.

 

It would be much more convenient to register products within the game and enable transactions in real time, but is there any reason not to add this function?

 

If the problem is server overload, wouldn't it be possible to limit the number of product registrations per account and deregister them after a certain period of time?

(3 products for each type, 10 types of products can be registered, automatic registration is canceled after one week)

 

I think that using this method can reduce server overload and make it more convenient for users.

 

Please, let me know if you have more good ideas.

there is already a solution. so why do you want it?

and you can create macro with mouse/keyboard software and post message with your items in chat.

[Slayer-.]

2 hours ago, GoPRO_Destiny said:

Currently, in-game trading involve registering a product in the unofficial Warframe Market and transacting separately through whispers based on that information, which is cumbersome and inconvenient.

Please, let me know if you have more good ideas.

You'll get used to it over time. 🤣

[0_The_F00l]

What's this ? A request for an auction house ?

I am in support for an in-game means to put items for sale.

 

[sly_squash]

I'll always upvote an Auction House request. 🙂

...and wish I could downvote people making such obviously inane bs claims like "but it has to be massively slow, inefficient, disruptive to gameplay, and prone to exploitation because MUH PRICES.

[Illegal_Squirell]

Having items up on sale that could be traded automatically would be marvelous.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Yep, an market board of some sort is something that many if not most players would like to see.

That said, there's not much of an incentive for DE to make such a thing, so I doubt they ever will.  Warframe.market serves the same purpose, and without any dev time, costs, or accountability on DE's part.

If I was a game developer with limited resources, I wouldn't devote any of them to addressing problems that had already been solved by the community, not when there are plenty of problems like bug fixes and updates that I could have my teams working on instead.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

At this point im ready for DE to actually put an auction house in the game just out of spite. 

Everybody who thinks auction house = free and effortless platinum would be in for a rude awakening when they realize that the "supply" in the "supply and demand" equation for everything would suddenly be skewed by orders of magnitude.

 

If i want to sell any given part or set right now, today, i have to compete with and only with the people who are actively online, in trade chat, ready to sell the same item(s) in that moment. 

 

But if you could just fart literally your entire inventory of random parts into the auction house and not even have to be looking at it, and all someone has to do to prevent you from being able to make a sale is undercut you by 1p, then youre not just competing with those people, you're competing with basically the entire playerbase of people that has the same part(s).

 

It would be HARDER to make "free platinum". Not easier. Meanwhile the cost of things like warframe slots, skins, orokin potatoes, etc, would not change. 

 

This would benefit people who actually give DE money and maybe riven traders by making every other tradeable item cheaper.

This would completely screw free to players and people who dont spend much $ on the game.

 

But the people who clamor for "auction house" every time it comes up are too blinded by the premise of getting plat for little to no effort that they dont see it or dont wanna hear it. 

[Skoomaseller]

I'd like an auction house just for rivens so riven sellers can stop S#&$ting up trade chat with their +cc +cd -damage riven going for 1.5k plat

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

2 hours ago, Illegal_Squirell said:

Having items up on sale that could be traded automatically would be marvelous.

And would cause the price of the vast majority of items to plummet to 1p

[o0Despair0o]

12 hours ago, trst said:

(aka: auction house) then that's something that'll hopefully never happen. Since the game's "economy" is propped up by inconvenience which would be destroyed by an AH.

Not only that, the economy is based on the inconvenience of the seller, not in general.

Like, if a prime part is easy to get, but the seller in question had a hard time getting it, they'll jack up the price and everyone else follows suit because why sell for less?

 

Prime (get it?) example, Titania Prime. I already had the chassis, but needed the BP for everything else. Neuros, main BP and Systems.

Main and Neuros costs like 7-10 plat on average. But the Systems? 50. Suck it up.

[Illegal_Squirell]

5 hours ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

And would cause the price of the vast majority of items to plummet to 1p

And cause items to be cheaper? Sounds like a win-win to me.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

31 minutes ago, Illegal_Squirell said:

And cause items to be cheaper? Sounds like a win-win to me.

I mean… if you buy plat yeah 😂 but if you want to earn it, no.

[Nobodys-Perfect]

Automatic and offline trades done through an AH in your typical mmo style would probably completely destroy free players ability to make any plat whatsoever. The more convenience you add in this fashion the more easily the markets become abused by bots and RMT "gold seller" companies who will come in force to manipulate and chill them to the point everyone suffers.

I get the desire to make trading easier, I really do, but the fact it's a chore is a deliberate choice that works in the favor of DE and honest players by protecting the market from large scale manipulation. If you play other games with market economies and auction houses, you should be well aware of the kind of problems that arise from them.

Multiboxed accounts automatically processing large orders and buying up every instance of particular items to enforce set prices. Items farmed en-masse by bots to be listed for 1p, devaluing them and farming the funds for further manipulation. All of this done at a huge scale that outpaces genuine player to player trades. This is the kind of thing you'll see from the addition of an easy interface for trading, because it permits automation.  The daily trade limit won't stop them if they get an AH interface. They'll just attempt to make huge numbers of accounts (or hack into yours) to get around it.

It's difficult to be sure of the actual effects, because they're going to be the consequence of bad actors attempting to take advantage. What kind of strategy they'll pull is up for speculation based on whatever vulnerabilities arise as a result of the new system, and how effectively DE can actively squash manipulators.

The bazaar style face to face trading protects you from forces far more troubling and annoying than you probably realize.

[Famecans]

14 hours ago, Nobodys-Perfect said:

Automatic and offline trades done through an AH in your typical mmo style would probably completely destroy free players ability to make any plat whatsoever. The more convenience you add in this fashion the more easily the markets become abused by bots and RMT "gold seller" companies who will come in force to manipulate and chill them to the point everyone suffers.

I get the desire to make trading easier, I really do, but the fact it's a chore is a deliberate choice that works in the favor of DE and honest players by protecting the market from large scale manipulation. If you play other games with market economies and auction houses, you should be well aware of the kind of problems that arise from them.

Fallacies and more fallacies just to freely propagate support for a slow and problematic system called trade chat, statements without proof without experienced flowcharts, and the fear of making one's own market strategies public.

I mentioned it in this topic or in another topic (I don't remember) and I will repeat it again; the auction house will level the real value of items; the auction house will level the real value of platinum; the auction house will provide more analytical numbers to the DE; the auction house will expel ghost accounts from the market; the auction house will provide quality of life for beginner players on all platforms, the auction house will give value to the beginning player because he is actually playing the game, as opposed to lazy players and market traders who speculate false values in the crowd.

 

14 hours ago, Nobodys-Perfect said:

Multiboxed accounts automatically processing large orders and buying up every instance of particular items to enforce set prices. Items farmed en-masse by bots to be listed for 1p, devaluing them and farming the funds for further manipulation. All of this done at a huge scale that outpaces genuine player to player trades. This is the kind of thing you'll see from the addition of an easy interface for trading, because it permits automation.  The daily trade limit won't stop them if they get an AH interface. They'll just attempt to make huge numbers of accounts (or hack into yours) to get around it.

There are no prime item farm bots within the game, fissures work perfectly well against any farm repeat, the bots are on the market. Go to the GPT chat and ask him to develop a jvascript code to list warframemarket.com profiles, ask him to write the code automating the task of buying 6 items for 20 platinum... Don't you want to do this? so do it manually and you will see that it works, here is my simple market flowchart:

1. DE: Provide dozens of ways to obtain relics so novice players can obtain the new warframe without buying parts on the market.
2. Novice: Get this new warframe prime opening this relics and sell all useless parts to buy a single warframe's slot / forma.
3. Market Guy: Researches trade full inventorys by just 20 platinum to profity 800% more platinum, this guy's endgame is to profit from the market in a new prime access...
4. Reality: The novice player gives up on the platinum-dependent progression curve and new players will face the trap of the market guy by purchasing some items with 800% platinum increase. This is a bad game progression experience.
   
    

14 hours ago, Nobodys-Perfect said:

It's difficult to be sure of the actual effects, because they're going to be the consequence of bad actors attempting to take advantage. What kind of strategy they'll pull is up for speculation based on whatever vulnerabilities arise as a result of the new system, and how effectively DE can actively squash manipulators.

I can help you think:

• Why are you afraid of platinum price going down???

Let me also help you with the answers:

• A: Because the RNG percentages are high.
• B: Because the value of Platinum items is already low.

If the RNG is high the market is flooded with cheap items, if the value of platinum and items is low it is because the RNG is high and those hungry for the market pay little for these items, you can only choose one of the alternatives and the answer will always be the same, the market is flooded with false customs and values as there is no auction house valuing the active player.👍

Edited November 27, 2023 by Famecans