Why does the ancient disruptor energy draining attacks go through status immunity, invulnerability and everything else.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

busoshoku haki type ahh attack.

not gonna lie, I love these suckers...they're stupid, and plague star have shed some light on their stupid-ness. they're probably the only last annoying challenge we face right now, but people don't really complain all the time about them because we rarely fight infested.

they bypass all defenses, all shields, all invulnerability periods...make no mistake, there's no place you can hide.

 

any reason why that's the case?

Edited November 16, 2023 by (PSN)Hopper_Orouk
I need to stop being cringe, come on Hopper you're better than that!

[(NSW)Greybones]

I’m more wondering why it wouldn’t be the case. Having to temporarily make do without energy if you get hit isn’t exactly far removed from just… spamming abilities nonstop. 

I’d be more sad if they were gone than whatever curveball they throw into the mix, since I like dealing with curveballs

Edited November 13, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[taiiat]

nothing is likely to change despite that their scaling has literally never made sense

and upgraded Eximus with guaranteed Orbs do help offset some already
however, i wouldn't complain if Disruptors dropped an Energy Orb every time they successfully drain Energy from a Player. so rather than vaporizing Energy, they're bottling it up and tossing it away since they don't use Energy.
you could make it a special pickup that won't trigger Orb based stuff i guess, so that you don't get free buffs. maybe make it a very tiny Energy Orb to visually convey that.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I’m more wondering why it wouldn’t be the case. Having to temporarily make do without energy if you get hit isn’t exactly far removed from just… spamming abilities nonstop. 

I’d be more sad if they were gone than whatever curveball they throw into the mix, since I like dealing with curveballs

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

not gonna lie, I love these suckers

I wouldn't want them to go either, I just want to understand.

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

if you get hit

It's a (basically) hitscan tether. It's not a question of "if" you get hit, but "when". The only way to avoid it is by killing the Disruptor before it has a chance to actually launch its hook, which is not always feasible to do (something something Infested have significantly higher enemy density than the other factions).

Ancient Disruptor just isn't good design, objectively speaking.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

they bypass all defenses, all shields, all invulnerability periods...

Mesmer Skin be like:

 Iron Skin and Recompense provide immunity too...most of the time.  Every once in a while I'll get drained on Kullervo even with Overguard up, but it's rare. 

No idea why invulns generally don't work.   I doubt it's intended.  Or, at least that it started out as intended.  I could imagine somebody at DE deciding energy was so plentiful and Infested so sad that it wasn't worth fixing.

[Tiltskillet]

12 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

It's a (basically) hitscan tether. It's not a question of "if" you get hit, but "when". The only way to avoid it is by killing the Disruptor before it has a chance to actually launch its hook, which is not always feasible to do (something something Infested have significantly higher enemy density than the other factions).

Ancient Disruptor just isn't good design, objectively speaking.

Shoot, if it was just the hook, or even just the Disruptor itself, it might not be great, but it'd be about a hundred times easier to deal with.  

[Hexerin]

15 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Shoot, if it was just the hook, or even just the Disruptor itself, it might not be great, but it'd be about a hundred times easier to deal with.  

The main thing is that the enemy subgroup Disruptors are part of, doesn't feature anything else that really has a realistic chance of hitting you with an attack that can actually trigger the Disruptor's aura effect (almost all ranged attacks, and all abilities, don't trigger it). So it really is just the Disruptors being an issue for the most part, which really emphasizes the issue.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Hexerin

[Tiltskillet]

5 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

The main thing is that the enemy subgroup Disruptors are part of, doesn't feature anything else that really has a realistic chance of hitting you with an attack that can actually trigger the Disruptor's aura effect (almost all ranged attacks, and all abilities, don't trigger it). So it really is just the Disruptors being an issue for the most part, which really emphasizes the issue.

That makes some sense.   I feel like I'm often getting swamped when fighting Infested, but I imagine most people are using more ranged AoE than I usually do.

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

It's a (basically) hitscan tether. It's not a question of "if" you get hit, but "when". The only way to avoid it is by killing the Disruptor before it has a chance to actually launch its hook, which is not always feasible to do (something something Infested have significantly higher enemy density than the other factions).

Ancient Disruptor just isn't good design, objectively speaking.

I haven’t been hooked in ages, but probably because I’m either keeping my distance or am on the move or both. And spawnrates for the standard game are such that it’s possible to keep track of where they are.

I think there was one time a while ago when I bulletjumped right past an Ancient and it 180 no-scoped me…? That was weird, and could possibly do with a look at if it wasn’t just a lucky hit

edit: Also, I think Disruptors are fine

Edited November 13, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

they bypass all defenses, all shields, all invulnerability periods...make no mistake, there's no place you can hide, this guy will suck you dry.

 

any reason why that's the case?

Old janky code, most likely. The energy drain is, to my knowledge, COMPLETELY unique and used nowhere else in the game. If true, it's possible the devs themselves might not even know, believing it to be just a generic Magnetic damage attack

[taiiat]

41 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

That makes some sense.   I feel like I'm often getting swamped when fighting Infested, but I imagine most people are using more ranged AoE than I usually do.

i tend to use roughly as much Parkour as the Terrain allows, it's inevitable for one to get hit once in a while. especially if you can't fit Primed Sure Footed to combat the arms race the game is creating :D
though the same is said of any incoming attack, ofcourse.

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

If true, it's possible the devs themselves might not even know, believing it to be just a generic Magnetic damage attack

maybe, though you could say that since our Health Types got neutralized, it may as well be Magnetic Damage at this point.
it could also be consistent, and actually decide whether DR should or shouldn't affect the Drain - instead of sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. tbh i'd probably go with no, so that it's then easy to actually balance it and create its own scaling method that's controlled. that way it affects almost everyone or just actually everyone, but the magnitude of the effect would finally be in control.
_{(a buff and a nerf for us simultaneously, then)}

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I think there was one time a while ago when I bulletjumped right past an Ancient and it 180 no-scoped me…? That was weird, and could possibly do with a look at if it wasn’t just a lucky hit

something something the Missile always knows where it is

[Tiltskillet]

8 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

If true, it's possible the devs themselves might not even know, believing it to be just a generic Magnetic damage attack

I can imagine that.  Frankly a fair amount of players seem to be in the same boat, given how often I've seen the advice "Disruptors are easy...just use Arcane Nullifier".

[Leqesai]

Another thing, these guys can hit you through objects and walls iirc. If they initiate the animation for their attack and you move so an object is blocking your line of sight these suckers can still hit you as far as I remember.

That and they swarm you so even playing well can result in ohko to your energy.

Really annoying enemies tbh. Would be much better if their attack simply caused magnetic proc and that was it.

[(NSW)Greybones]

52 minutes ago, taiiat said:

something something the Missile always knows where it is

wat

[EDM774]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

wat

lacking in meme culture I see, there there you'll find your way, Like this segue, to our sponsor Dbrand!

 

jokes aside, the only thing I dislike about disruptors is the god awful scaling balance or lack there of, at high enough levels there suckers will take all your energy with 1 hit even if you're running a max primed flow volt.

[Skoomaseller]

were you enjoying casting your abilities? sorry buddy! not anymore!

it's probably just philosophy of older/legacy game design which is why at level 80+ they/their allies w/ the buff drain all your energy in 1 hit. 

like I get it the infested are a kinda meme faction that dies to a stiff breeze but I think maybe taking another look at how they inflict their damage would do this game good.

Like, maybe have them tether to you, and after 0.5s they send the debuff through the tether to you, if you haven't rolled out of the way or killed them. has to be really visible too, can get a bit cluttered and hard to see when fighting a whole bunch of infested.

[Genitive]

Ancient disruptors are doo doo.

They were made for a different game and haven't been updated, really. If they put a cap on how much energy they can drain and limited their spawn rate, it would be fine.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

Well as much as i dislike them i rather keep them. Its their tendril that connects = 0 energy. 

It is annoying to have it remove all energy but certain builds allow rage/hunter adrenaline to counter that if energy economy is bad. Not to mention the countless ways to get back energy.

Similar to eximuses, but thena gain we get to choose the ways to overkill them too.

Im just glad that toxin ancient`s attack isnt insta death....

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well, the fun police had to step up after they made nullifiers super easy to kill. at the very least, it would be nice if disruptors had guaranteed energy drops like Eximus units: you should be rewarded for prioritizing them and killing them before they can hit you, and if they do hit you, it's only fair killing them should give you most of that energy back. 

just waiting on Guardian Eximus Nullifier Disruptor Ancients, or GENDAs to become a thing  

[SneakyErvin]

Never had them drain through invulnerability unless OG drops due to the damage, and in those cases it is rare it drains the energy, so more than likely a bug.

But the easiest way to avoid them in crowded places like Plague Star where you just want to kill the boss is by bringing Revenant or Lavos, then just laugh as everything attacks you and instead ends up tickling you.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

9 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

when I bulletjumped right past an Ancient and it 180 no-scoped me…?

COD skills

[Hexerin]

17 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I haven’t been hooked in ages, but probably because I’m either keeping my distance or am on the move or both.

They only initiate their hook within a certain range, that is somewhere in the default shotgun ranges (so like 10-20m).

17 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

And spawnrates for the standard game are such that it’s possible to keep track of where they are.

Normal star chart is literally irrelevant to any actual discussion. Literally anything works there, you can clear it in whole with unranked gear if you're skilled.

17 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I think there was one time a while ago when I bulletjumped right past an Ancient and it 180 no-scoped me…? That was weird, and could possibly do with a look at if it wasn’t just a lucky hit

That's due to the way hooks (not just Ancients, but also others like Grineer Scorpions etc) work. The enemy selects you as the target, winds up the throw, and then the hook travels to you at an extremely rapid speed the moment the windup completes. It doesn't matter where you are in relation to the enemy, nor what direction they're facing, the hook will travel directly from their hand to your location. The hook does have an upper limit to its range (in terms of travel distance), however.

17 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

edit: Also, I think Disruptors are fine

They are not fine, objectively speaking.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Hexerin

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

They only initiate their hook within a certain range, that is somewhere in the default shotgun ranges (so like 10-20m).

Normal star chart is literally irrelevant to any actual discussion. Literally anything works there, you can clear it in whole with unranked gear if you're skilled.

That's due to the way hooks (not just Ancients, but also others like Grineer Scorpions etc) work. The enemy selects you as the target, winds up the throw, and then the hook travels to you at an extremely rapid speed the moment the windup completes. It doesn't matter where you are in relation to the enemy, nor what direction they're facing, the hook will travel directly from their hand to your location. The hook does have an upper limit to its range (in terms of travel distance), however.

They are not fine, objectively speaking.

Dude, if you’re going to use Steel Path as your basis for balance, you’re out of touch with the game.

It’s on the tin, you can see the modifiers that it has that have been there from the start and you should know how they throw things out of whack. It’s not the game mode designed for balance, it’s for minmaxers who didn’t care about balance in the first place.

So yes, non-Steel Path, the Standard Game, is relevant for balance discussions because it’s the balanced part of the game even if you go destroying that balance with your builds designed to destroy that balance. And within the balanced part of the game that doesn’t inundate the player with 4-player spawns for 1 player and the consequences of that plus whatever scaling stupid-high outlier levels bring to the table, Ancient Disruptors are fine. Mostly when I hear people complain about them, I’m imagining them standing around spamming abilities like they think it’s a given and suddenly dying because the game’s like “You should probably not do that”

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

It's an old warframe legacy thing. Instead of attacking health or shields, Infested attacks energy. Invulnerable still takes damage. It's zero but that's still damage to the programming. Abilities that avoid damage completely don't get hit with energy drain. Like Baruuk's Elude.