But WHAT'S wrong with having no daily standing cap with factions?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Conjunction survival Today I spammed conjunction survival steel path to farm for Primary frostbite, it was pretty fun...one of the more entertaining missions because you start with 180 steel path enemies and the enemy density is so high plus the rapid decline in life support...basically how I wanted all survival missions to be.

but moving on, I managed to max it out in two or three days..and I wonder, what really is the problem for having no daily limit in the game?

Having no standing limit does not mean I will burn through content and forget about it, here's a content that I've finished for just this ONE ARCANE, but that doesn't mean I won't play the game anymore, it left me wanting more. and I still have other arcanes to farm in this particular mission so it's not really abandoned, and the mission itself is fun.

Mirror defense too, same thing with Mirror defense, and while I hate steel path defense because sometimes the objective gets one shotted at full health for absolutely no reason, it's still a content in Warframe with no gating system that players can spam to get the arcanes and rewards it has whenever they want.

Plains of eidolon and other open worlds, compare that to Open world faction system that's locked behind a daily standing limit, I don't understand the point...I would get it if you added that limit in the first three or four weeks of this particular content releasing...but why do you care so much about players finishing planes of eidolon content and getting the rewards in one go? Poe was released in 2018 nobody runs it anymore. except maybe people who like bounties and are really bored.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

By the way, there is a difference between standing cap limit and something like sorties and Archon hunts. I think having a Archon hunts each week and sorties daily is fine because you don't really farm the rewards.
it wouldn't really make any sense spamming sorties and getting constant rewards over and over again, Archon hunts too. it's supposed to be this special event every x amount of time that you do to get one of the better reward drops in the game.

 

with standing, you have to farm a certain amount of standing "XP" for lack of a better term which should compensate for having no standing cap, and I mean ESPECIALLY in very old content like Poe.

Edited November 26, 2023 by (PSN)Hopper_Orouk

[Illegal_Squirell]

There are stuffs like Arcanes that they would be more than happy to time gates you if that would mean you continue to play the game even longer.

[trst]

It's padding, something that the community has proven to be extremely necessary.

The problem with players completing content too fast is they enter the "content drought" phase faster. At that point we've seen players constantly complain for a lack of things to do and/or most just stop playing entirely until the next update. Where padding helps prolong an update and keeps players playing for longer.

There's also an argument for preventing burnout. Technically there shouldn't be an issue with standing caps since there's so many caps a player can work on. And pushing players into doing other content after capping one for the day can help stop players from pushing one branch of the game until they get sick of it.

[Voltage]

Daily standing limits make sense when the resources you gather that transfer into that reputation can pretty easily be farmed into the millions (or even tens of millions in some cases) of standing. Nights of Naberus and Plague Star are good examples of what happens when you allow syndicate standing to essentially be uncapped.

I know it's really easy for us players to want to remove that gate, and I would like it to be re-evaluated as well. Maybe not removing the cap, but reworking it to offer a much larger cap for players who are of high mastery rank and completion of the syndicate (like we have seen with Focus over the years). The one place I think DE should just remove the cap outright is with the Ventkids, given the nature of what they are offering compared to other syndicates.

Plains of Eidolon may have released in 2017, but plenty of players still have much to earn from the syndicates there, especially Quill Onkko. It's the same with the original 6 syndicates, Cephalon Simaris, Fortuna, Necralisk, and the Zariman. It's honestly just a small hurdle when you initially get into these modes. Once you are a bit of the way through these factions, you'll be ignoring that cap given you already have most of the rewards. That build up isn't a very big deal if I'm being honest.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Voltage

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

11 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Daily standing limits make sense when the resources you gather that transfer into that reputation can pretty easily be farmed into the millions (or even tens of millions in some cases) of standing. Nights of Naberus and Plague Star are good examples of what happens when you allow syndicate standing to essentially be uncapped.

I know it's really easy for us players to want to remove that gate, and I would like it to be re-evaluated as well. Maybe not removing the cap, but reworking it to offer a much larger cap for players who are of high mastery rank and completion of the syndicate (like we have seen with Focus over the years). The one place I think DE should just remove the cap outright is with the Ventkids, given the nature of what they are offering compared to other syndicates.

Plains of Eidolon may have released in 2017, but plenty of players still have much to earn from the syndicates there, especially Quill Onkko. It's the same with the original 6 syndicates, Cephalon Simaris, Fortuna, Necralisk, and the Zariman. It's honestly just a small hurdle when you initially get into these modes. Once you are a bit of the way through these factions, you'll be ignoring that cap given you already have most of the rewards. That build up isn't a very big deal if I'm being honest.

while it's true, I don't understand the fun in gathering a bunch of standing resource like plumes, max today's standing, gather more for tomorrow's then wait it out.
can there be at least a different way where we don't have to wait but it takes the same amount of time if the cap was there?

[(XBOX)Darkskytzo]

I think the standing cap is there so you'll keep returning to play and if they remove it, not only will you get way more items than a lower level player would. but it wouldn't be fair.
they did this with focus schools for awhile and kept tweaking the limits , i mean they capped the limit of kuva from teshin. the daily limit cap is a needed thing.

[taiiat]

it's like any game, timelocking stuff is to drive engagement and monetization.

that some of us aren't susceptible to this strategy doesn't change that the vast majority are - and even those of us that don't need this to play a game, are still forced to anyways since, well, you know.... you can't get anything without following along with the timelocks just the same.
so it's pretty a pretty effective control method, that is successful even on those that don't want or need it. since whatever stuffs you won't be able to get it otherwise.

[trst]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

while it's true, I don't understand the fun in gathering a bunch of standing resource like plumes, max today's standing, gather more for tomorrow's then wait it out.
can there be at least a different way where we don't have to wait but it takes the same amount of time if the cap was there?

DE doesn't want to spend months making an update just for players to dump a couple hours into it over a day or two then stop playing entirely for several more months.

And players who prefer co-op wouldn't want this either. It's already problematic how abandoned old content looks when trying to find groups to run it. Remove caps and new content would look just like old content in very short order. Plus just removing caps after X time has passed since a release is problematic in this regard too since it makes it more likely for players to fully finish content and thus even fewer players have reasons to return.

 

Now there are alternatives to time-gating as far as padding goes. But padding itself is still necessary be it in the form of forced waiting, actually rare drops, mandatory resource sinks, etc. So if DE did do away with gates there'd just be some other obstacle to deal with that'd cause other issues.

[Skoomaseller]

timegate, simple as. one that actually makes sense at least.

I personally think the max standing cap should be revised to be a bit higher

[Silligoose]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Conjunction survival Today I spammed conjunction survival steel path to farm for Primary frostbite, it was pretty fun...one of the more entertaining missions because you start with 180 steel path enemies and the enemy density is so high plus the rapid decline in life support...basically how I wanted all survival missions to be.

but moving on, I managed to max it out in two or three days..and I wonder, what really is the problem for having no daily limit in the game?

Having no standing limit does not mean I will burn through content and forget about it, here's a content that I've finished for just this ONE ARCANE, but that doesn't mean I won't play the game anymore, it left me wanting more. and I still have other arcanes to farm in this particular mission so it's not really abandoned, and the mission itself is fun.

Mirror defense too, same thing with Mirror defense, and while I hate steel path defense because sometimes the objective gets one shotted at full health for absolutely no reason, it's still a content in Warframe with no gating system that players can spam to get the arcanes and rewards it has whenever they want.

Plains of eidolon and other open worlds, compare that to Open world faction system that's locked behind a daily standing limit, I don't understand the point...I would get it if you added that limit in the first three or four weeks of this particular content releasing...but why do you care so much about players finishing planes of eidolon content and getting the rewards in one go? Poe was released in 2018 nobody runs it anymore. except maybe people who like bounties and are really bored.

Gates like these tend to be in freemium games to hinder free-player progress in certain aspects of power, incentivize sales (by being able to access that power faster via money due to skipping the gates), control the in-game economy to an extent, increase player retention by motivating them to log in more often and I suppose to encourage exploration of some other content in the game.

Due to the business model Warframe uses, I doubt it'll change.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Having no standing limit does not mean I will burn through content and forget about it, 

that's because, according to you, you have self control. many people don't and will inevitably burn themselves out. I know someone who went through the entire Destiny 2 Season pass in a few days, all 100 ranks of it. then there's also the monetization and other aspects to consider.

Standing caps aren't going anywhere, just learn to accept it and work within it like the rest of us.

[Tsukinoki]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Having no standing limit does not mean I will burn through content and forget about i

Sure that's well and good for you....but that historically hasn't held true for the playerbase in general.

I remember when focus was first introduced and had no daily caps....and I remember how many players burned themselves out playing for literal days on end to finish the system in under a week (and I do mean buying every single node...and things were more expensive when the system was introduced than it currently is) and then proceeded to swear off warframe and then complain "We have nothing to do!  Why doesn't DE give us things that take a while to complete so we don't run out of things to do!!!!"

This was followed by a dip in player numbers, and then massive complaining everywhere that there just isn't anything to do, and most everyone complaining it blaming it purely on DE.

That was one of the last such situations because after that DE just slapped on gates to prevent people from doing that to themselves, all the while complaining and blaming it on DE that they are doing things too fast.

 

DE would much rather you are forced to take your time and come back day after day after day after day, for a multitude of reasons, rather then burn through a system in one day and then proceeding to whinge and moan and complain at them for not giving you anything to do.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Standing cap isn't a big issue. Having the Standing cap reset every 24 hours is though. So have it reset every 12 might be better. Not great. just better. 

[TaureTavari]

I'm in the process of generating ideas for some of these issues. Others I'll be talking about are the 6 Syndicates, Cephalon Simaris, Focus and then other issues.

[drsnivy]

I think Standing caps only serve a purpose for the main syndicates AND new open worlds ON RELEASE. (IE around 2-3 months)

So imo, Standing caps should be removed or made heavily lenient for open world factions after a certain time period. This, just to let new players freely catch up while also preventing vets from blitzing through a new open world/syndicate day one.

For main syndicates, those are EXTREMELY passive to rank up, so I dont think they should lose the cap, although maybe have separate caps for each syndicate (not losing the 'competitive' system between the syndicates, ofc, but put a reasonable weekly/daily cap on relic packs because free farming those would be pretty bad for prime access).

 

Also debt bonds in fortuna need to be changed, you get the most of them from profit taker but by the time you have profit taker you dont need the bonds anymore. Ticker is unreliable for players ranking SU, and bounties have extremely garbage rewards on Fortuna.

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2023-11-26 at 4:25 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

what really is the problem for having no daily limit in the game?

Honestly, for us? Nothing.

Well, we do finish the content quickly and then have nothing to do until the next update, but that's the same regardless.

For DE? A lack of player engagement on a regular, possibly daily, basis.

That's pretty much it. DE just want you to come back, over and over. So they limit you. Lots of games do the same, when there's something to be gained by the devs for keeping people coming back every day (meaning, possible revenue streams). For example, games like Genshin Impact, and its brethren, limit your ability to get boss drops by making boss loot cost 40 Resin, and then only giving you 160 per day naturally. You can get more, but usually for cash.

DE are just doing the same, but with no pay-to-skip function.

If I had to improve the situation, I would use a 'weekly catch up' mechanic. Similar to Nightwave's catch up mechanic, but only over the course of a week. This is because daily caps don't cause player engagement when the only time they can engage is on the weekends, due to work or school. So if you can earn a set amount of base Standing per week, I would let that roll over.

For example, at a certain rank you can earn 35,000 Standing in one day, right? So on Monday you could earn that same amount in the Syndicate. But Tuesday you could earn both Tuesday's and Monday's standing together. If you can only play Saturday, you could earn up to six days worth of Standing in one go, and just miss out on Sunday's. It would go through the same weekly reset as every other weekly challenge system, and would be the most fair to the most amount of people.

But... that's about all I can see being an improvement that DE would actually go for.

[Zakkhar]

Rank up your MR and the rep cap is not a nuissance any more. Or be lazy and keep complaining. Choice is yours.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Zakkhar

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-11-26 at 8:25 AM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Conjunction survival Today I spammed conjunction survival steel path to farm for Primary frostbite, it was pretty fun...one of the more entertaining missions because you start with 180 steel path enemies and the enemy density is so high plus the rapid decline in life support...basically how I wanted all survival missions to be.

but moving on, I managed to max it out in two or three days..and I wonder, what really is the problem for having no daily limit in the game?

Having no standing limit does not mean I will burn through content and forget about it, here's a content that I've finished for just this ONE ARCANE, but that doesn't mean I won't play the game anymore, it left me wanting more. and I still have other arcanes to farm in this particular mission so it's not really abandoned, and the mission itself is fun.

Mirror defense too, same thing with Mirror defense, and while I hate steel path defense because sometimes the objective gets one shotted at full health for absolutely no reason, it's still a content in Warframe with no gating system that players can spam to get the arcanes and rewards it has whenever they want.

Plains of eidolon and other open worlds, compare that to Open world faction system that's locked behind a daily standing limit, I don't understand the point...I would get it if you added that limit in the first three or four weeks of this particular content releasing...but why do you care so much about players finishing planes of eidolon content and getting the rewards in one go? Poe was released in 2018 nobody runs it anymore. except maybe people who like bounties and are really bored.

Players will always be able to power through content exponentially faster than devs can make it. Even with 10x the team size, the development side still won't compare. By allowing caps, time gates and power chance rates, there can at least be a fighting chance to have a decent window between creating new content and having players/content creators doing the overdramatic fire starting about content drought. 

[(PSN)Melo-Cake_IsBack]

Daily standing cap in my opinion should be removed. It all depends on the person and as some people have stated that you can get bored or whine that we need more updates, no. For me having the daily cap makes me play the game less, I don't even bother getting points for other standings. If they ever removed the daily standing I would be playing more trying to go for one standing and max out frames and weapons (the many many frames and weapons and stuff we got!). This daily standing cap is good for new players the very first month to 3 month's but after that.. no.

Look at decorations for instance.. they are expensive and to get 1 decoration (that costs 100k) you need to play atleast 4 days and cap standing to buy it. This is a hella slow progress that makes me bored of the game that I don't even bother buying decorations because of it. There is so much stuff to buy that I will never buy it because of the daily cap limit.

Anyone defending this idea (daily cap limit) is just afraid of change and the things that 'might' happen. nothing will happen, some people will enjoy the game more and play more and others will be burned out on the game and leave for a while just to be back again after. 

The thing DE isn't looking at is that the game expanded over the years and the factions we have and NEED to get points for is too much. Having a daily cap limit makes us progress in a very very slow way. I want to play my way, the way I like it. Why should I be punished?

Daily cap limit should be a timed thing for new players to not rush in the game the very first few month's. Right after that everyone should be able to do the hell they want without a daily cap limit. 

My word is worth something here, I have been playing warframe for a long time and I don't mind the waiting times for weapons and frames (in the past I did, but now I don't care). But the daily standing cap limit should be a thing of the past so that I can enjoy the game the way I want to play it without having a wall in front of me preventing me from playing for the things i'm grinding (actively playing the game) for.

No daily cap limit is the way to go, I never asked much but this.. this is one thing I do wish for. Also a Loki rework :P