Solutions to the AoE Nerfs

[FeRixia]

While we all wait for some reversion of the Bramma Zarr etc nerfs (hopefully), here are some ways to "bypass" the impact of them. Tired of needing to land a headshot (or bodyshot) and swapping between incarnon forms or using non aoe guns that wont run out of ammo? Want to spam at your feet and keep your eyes on the minimap? Read on.

To be clear, they could do with a base ammo max and ammo per pickup increase. PFS was already nerfed and merciless lost its ammo bonus so it really doesn't make sense that they also nerfed pickups like this. But anyway on to the actual advice:

1. Energized Munitions shall be the helminth slot. This gives 75% ammo efficiency which means every 4 shots consumes only one ammo. Indirectly increases dps with fewer reloads. Downside is taking your helminth and needing to be casted frequently with a base duration of 5s.

2. Scavenger Aura (Bramma excluded...where Bow Scavenger?), increases pickups by 150%. If you get someone else too, it will stack to 300% and so forth.

3. Carrier + Ammo Drum. Outsource your mutation! Downside is not having consistent Reinforced Bond for firerate if spamming Bramma. I would go EM + Wyrm Prime or Panzer Vulp with Reinforced Bond instead for this.

These can be used on any frame but Saryn, Mirage, and Gauss are great for this! Have fun blowing up the map Tenno!

Edited January 4 by FeRixia
Bow scavenger not Sniper

[BiancaRoughfin]

25 minutes ago, FeRixia said:

While we all wait for some reversion of the Bramma Zarr etc nerfs (hopefully

Sorry, couldnt help it.

Spoiler

 

25 minutes ago, FeRixia said:

1. Energized Munitions shall be the helminth slot. This gives 75% ammo efficiency which means every 4 shots consumes only one ammo. Indirectly increases dps with fewer reloads. Downside is taking your helminth and needing to be casted frequently with a base duration of 5s.

2. Scavenger Aura (Bramma excluded...where Sniper Scavenger?), increases pickups by 150%. If you get someone else too, it will stack to 300% and so forth.

3. Carrier + Ammo Drum. Outsource your mutation! Downside is not having consistent Reinforced Bond for firerate if spamming Bramma. I would go EM + Wyrm Prime or Panzer Vulp with Reinforced Bond instead for this.

I find it hilarious that people still cant get in their heads why DE did the Nerfs and keep on pushing for reversal of the nerfs or finding ways around them.

Have DE remove any form of Self Stagger immunity and/or return Self Damage to the game and i might upvote any topic asking for the reversal of the Nerfs.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

[ReddyDisco]

46 minutes ago, FeRixia said:

While we all wait for some reversion of the Bramma Zarr etc nerfs

Not gonna happen

[Mazifet]

bramma and zarr are fine right now. as long as you aren't wasting ammo by shooting it at a single enemy instead of groups, it has 0 issues with ammo.

[Xzorn]

The actual solution to Single-Target Vs AoE is very easy. Warframe has just gone in the opposite direction at every turn.
When you have less but more meaningful enemies it naturally improves the value of single target and reduces the value of AoE.

This can even be mathematically show/solved using volume. If stated AoE volume on average contains 4 enemies then a single target weapon should do roughly x3-4 more damage. As it stand the volume of an AoE is more like 10-15 which can't really be compensated for by numerical DPS or even status rates now.

Scaling used to address this to some degree as the best secondary weapons were all single-target with good status rates.
It's easier to amp damage than status thus status wins as enemies scaled. The new status system kinda ruins that though.
Pure status melee weapons don't even have a place on the board these days. It's a nice mess they've made.

[(PSN)Unstar]

59 minutes ago, FeRixia said:

While we all wait for some reversion of the Bramma Zarr etc nerfs

With respect, I wouldn't recommend waiting for this, because it's unlikely to happen.  The Bramma and Zarr are still great tools, meaning that DE is unlikely to give them any manner of buffs.  If you've got a build that matches up to the content you're engaging with and are thoughtful about your shots, you're generally not going to have any ammo issues.

For the folks who want explosions without that thoughtfulness and want to be a bit more "wild west" in their approach, the ideas you posted here are indeed among the strategies that can help prop up a strategy like that.

 

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

You guys just can't let it go lmao

[trst]

This is cute.

Anyways I'm over here waiting for DE to pull the trigger on removing PSF's self CC immunity and/or putting self damage back in. Since, as far as I'm aware, DE never said they wouldn't revisit those ideas if AOE continued to be a problem. So please do teach the spammers that they can still brainlessly spam AOE.

[AmongTheWeak]

100% damage reduction from AoE self damage but can be knocked down. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

These aren't solutions....they're tools in the game meant for you to actually use. 

The fact that you're making this thread like you're spreading some rare information shows the average player can't even build properly.

[Loza03]

The position your operating under is the idea that the nerfs themselves are fundamentally bad, that they're a problem to be fixed, when in truth, they were themselves a solution.

 

If anything, a solution that could very probably be applied to far more things. 

[Pakaku]

Welcome to the Energized Munitions club, you're late, extremely late

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

The position your operating under is the idea that the nerfs themselves are fundamentally bad, that they're a problem to be fixed, when in truth, they were themselves a solution.

 

If anything, a solution that could very probably be applied to far more things. 

+1 to this. 

Although there were flaws with the solution, particularly in hitting some weapons much harder than others, some of which were kind of marginal as AoE.  And these cases probably seem more jarring to people, given the context of some AoE Incarnon weapons and Melee Influence.

[Kaiga]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz said:

You guys just can't let it go lmao

The game's reviews were bombed back to the stone age after the AoE/wukong giganerf, what did you expect?

It would have been nice of them to have refunded our upgrade mats, though, however justified these changes were, as much of the most popular content that everyone spent time and effot building went down the drain practically overnight.

Edited January 4 by Kaiga

[MechNexus]

I mean... Yes? This is what I was telling everyone when the nerf initially happened lmao

The entire point of the change was to make you think about ammo economy as a tradeoff for how powerful the weapons were, with the above proposed being the alternative to actually aiming your shots at the cost of whatever else could go in that slot.

Though really, the actual workaround to the ammo changes is to actually play the bloody game.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Whilst I think this is framed peculiarly, and I wanted to be a little bit sarcastic (as in these aren't really solutions to a problem, like already mentioned, this is using in game tools, to enhance a particular play style, or maximise the strengths of certain weapons/minimise the weaknesses etc), I can always appreciate someone trying to lend tips, advice and assistance to fellow players. So thats legit. 

Not my fav play style, but to throw another tip, or more of a video recommendation, but Garuda has some good synergies with certain AOE weapons like Zarr. AznvasionsPlays on Youtube has a pretty good video going in depth on this. Requires some set up, but on the plus side, that amount of set up, means we won't see it everywhere, whilst those that enjoy that kind of thing, can get it, 

[FeRixia]

Thank you to those who responded that acknowledged the validity of these strategies.

 

And to those that laughed the idea of reverting nerfs, I agree it is unlikely but there are those like me who would enjoy the game more if that happened especially because they proceeded to add more powercreep in the form of influence and aoe incarnons.

 

And to those who tried being demeaning to those who want to do this playstyle, it's insulting because it is also a valid way to play. AoE is not "problematic" when you look at the meta as a whole filled with nuke abils and incarnons.

I am not "late to the party" or uninformed about these builds. I just wanted to share some things I've found helpful to counteract the decisions the devs have made to still do the same efficient playstyle as before. You can choose to use or not but please don't insult it when the game's about farming and many tend towards strats that make it efficient or brainoff.

Edited January 4 by FeRixia
Accidentally hit send

[FeRixia]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Whilst I think this is framed peculiarly, and I wanted to be a little bit sarcastic (as in these aren't really solutions to a problem, like already mentioned, this is using in game tools, to enhance a particular play style, or maximise the strengths of certain weapons/minimise the weaknesses etc), I can always appreciate someone trying to lend tips, advice and assistance to fellow players. So thats legit. 

Not my fav play style, but to throw another tip, or more of a video recommendation, but Garuda has some good synergies with certain AOE weapons like Zarr. AznvasionsPlays on Youtube has a pretty good video going in depth on this. Requires some set up, but on the plus side, that amount of set up, means we won't see it everywhere, whilst those that enjoy that kind of thing, can get it, 

Thanks for your response! I agree Garuda is an amazing platform as well esp for Zarr and Envoy! I also enjoy sunder spam and breach surge. Blood Forge is really underrated and you can use Gloom for heals or EM/buff and hp regen shard and be on top of shieldgate in that case.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

51 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

The game's reviews were bombed back to the stone age after the AoE/wukong giganerf, what did you expect?

It would have been nice of them to have refunded our upgrade mats, though, however justified these changes were, as much of the most popular content that everyone spent time and effot building went down the drain practically overnight.

Refund? Sure...right after you refund the time spent making people play walking simulator while you wait at extraction.

[Kaiga]

44 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Refund? Sure...right after you refund the time spent making people play walking simulator while you wait at extraction.

Building frames or weapons that are now useless due to nerfs, and nerfs in general, doesn't automatically make you guilty of this now nonexistent playstyle. 

Edited January 4 by Kaiga

[MechNexus]

1 hour ago, FeRixia said:

Thank you to those who responded that acknowledged the validity of these strategies.

 

And to those that laughed the idea of reverting nerfs, I agree it is unlikely but there are those like me who would enjoy the game more if that happened especially because they proceeded to add more powercreep in the form of influence and aoe incarnons.

 

And to those who tried being demeaning to those who want to do this playstyle, it's insulting because it is also a valid way to play. AoE is not "problematic" when you look at the meta as a whole filled with nuke abils and incarnons.

I am not "late to the party" or uninformed about these builds. I just wanted to share some things I've found helpful to counteract the decisions the devs have made to still do the same efficient playstyle as before. You can choose to use or not but please don't insult it when the game's about farming and many tend towards strats that make it efficient or brainoff.

This is honestly just wrong.

The reason the nerfs happened in the first place, and why the playstyle was deemed unacceptable, was because it was too effective for the effort put in and sucking all the air out of the room for any other playstyle, and was deemed disruptive because it was capable of dealing with high end content intended for full groups while being just barely active enough to not trip the AFK timer. It was getting so bad that people were allegedly treating warframe more like a gacha game because the required input was so minimal.

Now, as for why nuke abilities and incarnons still exist/happen? Simple: They require user input. Incarnons require you to get headshots to charge the altfire, where all the AoE stuff is, and modern warframe ability design locks the really big nukes behind a lot of setup first - e.g, Saryn requiring spores to be spread and maintained, or Qorvex requiring rad procs to get stacked.

The suggestion that AoE weapons as a whole are useless and a non-viable playstyle full stop? Utter hyperbolic nonsense on par with the "Blessing doesn't make you invincible anymore, Trinity is useless now" discourse back in the day. AoE weapons are still incredibly strong, you just have to be careful with your shots and actually manage your ammo rather than just exploding every individual enemy you see, or flailing wildly with no precision or strategy.

[FeRixia]

12 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

Building frames or weapons that are now useless due to nerfs, and nerfs in general, doesn't automatically make you guilty of this now nonexistent playstyle. 

The whole post is about how this playstyle still exists and now to make it happen besides just "being more careful how to aim" but expecting players to nerf themselves like that is entitled when the point of the game is get stronger and play how you want.

[FeRixia]

6 minutes ago, MechNexus said:

This is honestly just wrong.

The reason the nerfs happened in the first place, and why the playstyle was deemed unacceptable, was because it was too effective for the effort put in and sucking all the air out of the room for any other playstyle, and was deemed disruptive because it was capable of dealing with high end content intended for full groups while being just barely active enough to not trip the AFK timer. It was getting so bad that people were allegedly treating warframe more like a gacha game because the required input was so minimal.

Now, as for why nuke abilities and incarnons still exist/happen? Simple: They require user input. Incarnons require you to get headshots to charge the altfire, where all the AoE stuff is, and modern warframe ability design locks the really big nukes behind a lot of setup first - e.g, Saryn requiring spores to be spread and maintained, or Qorvex requiring rad procs to get stacked.

The suggestion that AoE weapons as a whole are useless and a non-viable playstyle full stop? Utter hyperbolic nonsense on par with the "Blessing doesn't make you invincible anymore, Trinity is useless now" discourse back in the day. AoE weapons are still incredibly strong, you just have to be careful with your shots and actually manage your ammo rather than just exploding every individual enemy you see, or flailing wildly with no precision or strategy.

I think you misunderstood the point of the post. Nowhere did I say the weapons are useless. I am suggesting builds to make wild spam possible again. Please read it carefully. Also no one's stopping you from still taking good ammo aoe weapons like Tonkor and afking with Wukong or Equinox but that's besides the point. Also not all nukes require setup. For example, Gyre can legit just walk to the end unless it's heavy armor. Torid can spam wildly into a crowd and get charge while Ocucor is just a hold mouse button simulator (albeit fun and does fall off on armor without help). Fact is there are many strats that room clear the same and not a complete reversion but just a little acknowledgement the nerfs were too hard and to pull it back a little would not be amiss.

Edited January 4 by FeRixia
Added some lines on the end

[MechNexus]

1 minute ago, FeRixia said:

I think you misunderstood the point of the post. Nowhere did I say the weapons are useless. I am suggesting builds to make wild spam possible again. Please read it carefully. Also no one's stopping you from still taking good ammo aoe weapons like Tonkor and afking with Wukong or Equinox but that's besides the point. Also not all nukes require setup. For example, Gyre can legit just walk to the end unless it's heavy armor.

"Not all nukes require setup"
"Gyre can walk to the end unless it's heavy armour"

Read that again and think about it for a moment.

(aside: the "these weapons are useless now" was a sentiment expressed at the time the nerf went out - and unless i'm misinterpreting Kaiga's post, this very thread too)