The biggest turn off to new players I've talked to is the foundry timer. I believe it may be time to either reduce it or remove the timer.

[(XBOX)calvina]

Timers remain a staple of the game, however I do feel some could be reduced.

Certain weps shouldn't take 24 hours to create, 12 is enough, match it with the rest of the weapons, or atleast cap it at 18 hours, if said weapons use parts that themselves need time to craft, then the end-goal weapon should also be reduced. (6 hours on weapon part, 6 hours on weapon craft)

---

I personally wish Forma/Potatoes also take 18 hours. (Although I guess if DE reduced it to this amount, people would be likely asking for a further reduction, so shrug.)

Frames should take 2 days tho, to account for the Warframe component craft time.

 

[Chewarette]

12 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Warframe is one of the few communities that don't want something to benefit them such as reducing timers. It's really weird, it's like people enjoy punishment, which makes sense since they continue grinding even after DE over inflated the grind to the point where it can take weeks to get a single item. Like why would you defend a timer when you can just get the item as soon as you finished grinding for the resources?

You have to be realistic mate. Of course someone could come on the forum, open a topic saying we should have all weapons, warframes, accessories (even prime) at first day login reward, everyone would cheer. But take DE's point of view : it would be a hard nope, not even worth discussing.

We're not saying we enjoy the 3-days crafts, nor that DE should implement 10-days crafts just for the sake of it. We just say we understand why it's like that, and complaining on the forums, despite being a totally legit discussion, will very likely not lead anywhere.

[Aldain]

I don't agree, but do feel that some things need a second look, like an MR0 Burston, Latron and (Dual)Skana taking...12 hours for no good reason despite being comically weak even by MR0 standards.

[Hayrack]

The anticipation of new "toys" is what kept me playing. It's a form of self-entertainment, like a candy a day. Another part of this is strategy - how to select and keep 4 best weapons, and best warframe, when you only have 5 weapon slots and 2 warframe slots, without buying more, managing to grab free slots here and there. Today, fruits of daily logins and grind are delicious. Must be mega boring to just buy every item with plat.

[_Eclips3_]

2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

You have to be realistic mate. Of course someone could come on the forum, open a topic saying we should have all weapons, warframes, accessories (even prime) at first day login reward, everyone would cheer. But take DE's point of view : it would be a hard nope, not even worth discussing.

We're not saying we enjoy the 3-days crafts, nor that DE should implement 10-days crafts just for the sake of it. We just say we understand why it's like that, and complaining on the forums, despite being a totally legit discussion, will very likely not lead anywhere.

I honestly think DE won't loose much by getting rid of the timer. Besides, if the whole community shows they dislike it in unison and threaten a boycott as an example, then surely they might consider at least switching it for a more enjoyable crafting process.

13 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

then you need to tell these players to get used to it, because that's how these kinds of games work; timegates, standing caps and other tactics to pad out gameplay length. it is what it is.

I hope you're not under the naïve assumption that if they scrapped the foundry system, they wouldn't replace it with something else... because they would, probably something even worse. ain't no way we're getting instant craft times because the game has to be consistently monetized somehow: Prime packs and updates bring in cash but if they only relied on that there'd be down-time between updates where there'd be very little money coming in, and that could affect the quality of future releases.

people need to realise there are much worse things in life than having to wait for stuff. 

I've given DE almost close to $2000 over the course of 8 years playing Warframe on Console and PC, giving me the option to pay more to craft something I spent weeks grinding for is honestly a slap in the face.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

12 minutes ago, _Eclips3_ said:

I've given DE almost close to $2000 over the course of 8 years playing Warframe on Console and PC, giving me the option to pay more to craft something I spent weeks grinding for is honestly a slap in the face.

ok... and?

I've also played for about 8-9 years, albeit on one platform, and probably spent about the same amount of money as you in that time. that doesn't mean we get preferential treatment, even if we feel we deserve it because of our contributions to this game. you have to be realistic here, and accept that there are going to be some arbitrary gates to pad out the time and monetize parts of the game. I agree there's a fine line between what constitutes "fair" monetization practices, and what comes off as unfair, or blatant greed, but for the most part DE don't cross the line often, and on the occasions they did like with Regal Aya and the Heirloom packs, community feedback hit them like a ton of bricks and they were forced to change tactic to something less predatory. as long as they know where the line is, and we're there to keep them on the other side of it, then there's nothing to worry about.

if the foundry system feels like a slap in the face, you may want to stay away from korean MMOs and Gacha games, they'll give you a heart attack. 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I understand that "Pay for Convenience" (and cosmetics) are the real money makers for Warframe.
I'm fairly sure Forma is their biggest seller (no joke.) (and that's why they take so long to build, and why they took their sweet time bringing back Plague Star.)

However, for new players, the progression system without crafting timers is not well laid out, but it exists.

What I'm talking about, is a selection of weapons available in the Arsenal (and market, I guess), that you can outright buy for credits (no plat needed), to spend your time ranking up. While they're busy ranking up those weapons and farming up materials, they can start a great many blueprints building in the foundry... these blueprints can also be bought in the Arsenal (and market, I guess), and yet this feature is also quite well hidden. Some of these have as little as 12hr build times, while others are 24.

Without an experienced mentor helping new players along, they'd probably not know anything about these things... only really getting the blueprints from the few enemies that drop them (gorgon), and rewards from clearing the planet connection thingies... or thinking they have to buy things with plat (I didn't have a mentor, and didn't know about the blueprint buying from the arsenal until a long while in, after seeing it in a youtube video, during research.)

I think it would help if players were guided along the intended gameplay loop of acquiring materials and building them in the foundry, a bit more directly, showing that ranking them up fully grants them mastery that increases their mastery rank, that increases the base energy that gear has, and allows them to use a wider variety of weapons (not always more powerful necessarily.) The path to gaining Rhino should be the first step in explaining how bosses drop warframe blueprints, and for completion of the quest of obtaining all his parts, they should get a Warframe slot reward so they can actually build him... or save it and use it for something they've researched and planned for.

 

[Monolake]

Frame taking 4 days (total) is turning new players away thats true. When you craft a weapon and its ready the next day - it motivates you to play tomorrow to try it out, its a hook. But when its whole 72 hrs it does the opposite - feels like you might as well not play for 3 days, and by then a new player might already be enjoying another game and forgets about WF.  A bit of 'profit' from plat spent on rushing frames doesnt offset the significant negative impact it has on player retention.

Frame crafting should be changed to 24 hrs - thats already 2 days with parts, thats more than enough. . Prime frames can be kept as is, since those barely affect new players and also they need to remain special.

And another suggestion is to give 1 free crafting rush to new players, maybe give it at achieving certain mastery ranks

[SneakyErvin]

One thing I'm curious about. People that think crafting times should be removed, have you considered what would be put in their place to make crafting a time sink? Since no game out there has instant free crafting. Imagine instead of hitting up a 1 minute craft for 20 refined ore or crystals you suddenly need to spend 3 seconds for each single one, like done in classic RPG crafting systems.

Sure the long times for crafting frames and weapons might suck, but it is also there instead of needing various rare materials in order to craft them at all. In other games you might farm the blueprints, then you also need to farm some very rare components, or sit several hours in real time to refine the needed amount of materials, unable to do anything else in the process. Not to mention the time you spend in most of those games to get the needed skills in those crafting professions in the first place.

In the end, you wont get a system free of time sinks, so be careful what you wish and ask for.

[Currilicious]

This wasn't the case for me though.

The resources were the bottleneck. Didn't mind the wait time as long as nothing is locked behind a paywall.

The rotation-C bullsh!t was an annoyance. Still some of those in game. But at least the vaulted stuff comes around quite often now.

I think I prefer this model than what other F2P games did.

[Hypernaut1]

Am i the only one that actually likes the timers? I'm actually glad WF has them. It's a cool mechanic for me, kind of immersive. I know the foundry isn't really making a frame in 3 days, but the wait makes it feel a bit more tangible to me. I dunno. 

I do know that i don't hate the timers and have never felt the need to rush. 

[Tsukinoki]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

One thing I'm curious about. People that think crafting times should be removed, have you considered what would be put in their place to make crafting a time sink? Since no game out there has instant free crafting. Imagine instead of hitting up a 1 minute craft for 20 refined ore or crystals you suddenly need to spend 3 seconds for each single one, like done in classic RPG crafting systems.

Sure the long times for crafting frames and weapons might suck, but it is also there instead of needing various rare materials in order to craft them at all. In other games you might farm the blueprints, then you also need to farm some very rare components, or sit several hours in real time to refine the needed amount of materials, unable to do anything else in the process. Not to mention the time you spend in most of those games to get the needed skills in those crafting professions in the first place.

In the end, you wont get a system free of time sinks, so be careful what you wish and ask for.

Or the other common path of "Those crafts can fail!  So you better farm 2 or 3 times as much as you need because they'll just fail over and over again wasting resources!"

Other games with "instant crafting" actually have a lot more systems in them to slow the player down that Warframe doesn't.
Namely:
-Need to sit staring at a menu the entire time you're crafting without being able to do anything else
-Need to refine the materials through level upon level upon level of mat, from basic stone, to stone blocks, to high quality stone blocks to superior stone blacks, etc
-Need to move from crafting bench to crafting bench to crafting bench as you can't just make everything in one place
-Need to farm rare catalysts of some sort, often with sub 5% drop rates
-Need to craft over and over and over and over again to raise your skills just to be able to craft what you want to craft.
-The ability for the crafting to just fail, meaning you need to go back out and farm for more resources.

 

I much greatly prefer warframes crafting system of "Set this up....and then forget about it and do other stuff while it builds it for me with zero interaction, zero chance of failing and losing resources, and I can actually play the game!"
The furthest you need to "refine" some material is just one step, so no massive pyramid of needing hundreds upon hundreds of a base material just to make a single top tier mat.

 

Every game with crafting has time walls, some are just much more apparent and obvious than others....and some are much more annoying than others.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Or the other common path of "Those crafts can fail!  So you better farm 2 or 3 times as much as you need because they'll just fail over and over again wasting resources!"

Other games with "instant crafting" actually have a lot more systems in them to slow the player down that Warframe doesn't.
Namely:
-Need to sit staring at a menu the entire time you're crafting without being able to do anything else
-Need to refine the materials through level upon level upon level of mat, from basic stone, to stone blocks, to high quality stone blocks to superior stone blacks, etc
-Need to move from crafting bench to crafting bench to crafting bench as you can't just make everything in one place
-Need to farm rare catalysts of some sort, often with sub 5% drop rates
-Need to craft over and over and over and over again to raise your skills just to be able to craft what you want to craft.
-The ability for the crafting to just fail, meaning you need to go back out and farm for more resources.

 

I much greatly prefer warframes crafting system of "Set this up....and then forget about it and do other stuff while it builds it for me with zero interaction, zero chance of failing and losing resources, and I can actually play the game!"
The furthest you need to "refine" some material is just one step, so no massive pyramid of needing hundreds upon hundreds of a base material just to make a single top tier mat.

 

Every game with crafting has time walls, some are just much more apparent and obvious than others....and some are much more annoying than others.

Ugh that reminds me of old Dark age of Camelot crafting where you wanted a specific quality percentage in order to push damage and durability above that of most random drops. Or how the upgrade systems work in some game. "Oh you want to upgrade a level? Oh well here you go with a level degrade instead, enjoy!".

I far prefer WF heh.

[_Eclips3_]

On 2024-02-03 at 12:39 PM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

ok... and?

I've also played for about 8-9 years, albeit on one platform, and probably spent about the same amount of money as you in that time. that doesn't mean we get preferential treatment, even if we feel we deserve it because of our contributions to this game. you have to be realistic here, and accept that there are going to be some arbitrary gates to pad out the time and monetize parts of the game. I agree there's a fine line between what constitutes "fair" monetization practices, and what comes off as unfair, or blatant greed, but for the most part DE don't cross the line often, and on the occasions they did like with Regal Aya and the Heirloom packs, community feedback hit them like a ton of bricks and they were forced to change tactic to something less predatory. as long as they know where the line is, and we're there to keep them on the other side of it, then there's nothing to worry about.

if the foundry system feels like a slap in the face, you may want to stay away from korean MMOs and Gacha games, they'll give you a heart attack. 

When you spend 33.3333333x the money one would spend buying a AAA game at $60, we really should get preferential treatment considering they are a business and business favours paying customers. They are not a food bank or a school where everyone is equal and lady da sunshine and butterflies, they are a business and like I said before, businesses favour the paying customer.

Edited March 1 by _Eclips3_

[Aerikx]

I feel like this is an opportunity to make MR Ranks matter.

I agree with the OP. As I currently have about 8 recently awoken Tenno's under my tutelage, the #1 thing that deters them/makes them want to quit is the Foundry timer.

I recently helped one of them farm Rhino. And while the 12hr wait on each part irritated him, it was the 3 days to actually PLAY Rhino that damn near broke him. Thankfully I was able to distract him for the 3 days. 

That said. I feel like the MR rating of some weapons and even Warframes should dictate the craft time.

This way, newer players who are using low MR weapons & Frames can stay engaged longer. 

Example:

Mag/Volt/Rhino Chassis, Neurotics, Systems Blueprint craft time: 3hrs

Mag/Volt/Rhino Blueprint Craft Time: 12hrs:

vs

Frost (Mars Level) 

Parts: 6hrs, Frame: 24

Valkyr (Jupiter) 

Parts: 12hrs, Frame: 48hrs

vs

Atlas (Eris)

Parts: 12hrs, Frame: 72hrs

Weapons?

MR 0 = Bought for Credits

MR1 = 1hr, MR2 = 2hrs, MR3 = 3hrs, so on and so on until capping at the current wait of 12.

Why the longer times?

Because as MR rises, more and more weapons becomes available and the game offers more to do. IE: There is lots of content to distract players. 

So while say...Valkyr is cooking, players will be busy progressing through the chart, testing out new weapons, exploring the Open Worlds and ranking up in all manner of Syndicates. 

At the start of the game, it's basically just Star chart missions and an extremely small arsenal that gets repetitive very fast. 

Having to farm mods and blueprints, then resources, then...after all that work to be slapped with 3 12hr builds AND then a 72hr build is just brutal to new players who are fresh and excited for the game. 

Also, having MR factor into the more advanced Frames might give a minor sense of progression. 

As for Platinum incentive?

Simple.

Buying a Weapon or Warframe bypasses the Craft Times and MR restriction on it. 

Edited March 1 by Aerikx
Cellphone formatting issues

[(XBOX)XYZ RUMBEL]

No

[ChaoticOrderly]

Wouldn't mind timer reduction but the big kicker is letting use queue up multiple of the same bp for crafting. This mainly only affects consumables and open world resources but if you have like 100+ forma bps, it would be nice just to consecutive craft them all and release huge dopamine doses when you pick them all up at once.