Why is there such a hatred towards Caliban

[Dr.Tursko]

THIS ENTIRE POST HAS SOME BIAS AS A CALIBAN MAIN.

 

DE's negligence of Caliban as a whole has felt almost on purpose at this point. He released with The New War all the way back in 2021 and has received 0 love since then. Not counting minor bug fixes and tweaks to his abilities, Caliban has become the new punching bag of Warframe. 

If you bring up Caliban, you're met with 'who's Caliban' and other totally originally statements, which sure, are funny once or twice, but it's also a clear sign something needs to be done for the poor frame.

STORY
He has an interesting lore concept, being a blueprint by Erra that may or may not have been given to him by Ballas during the Old War. His presence during the Old War opens even more doors for story due to the fact he appears mostly Sentient, rather than a hybrid like Revenant. However, Caliban is instead locked behind Narmer Bounties, something very few people even do, and has no relevance to appearing there. There isn't even a Leverian for him, his prex-card is instead just located randomly in Drifter's Camp.

 

BALANCE AND GAMEPLAY

Caliban is notorious for being pretty bad in comparrison to other Warframes.

His 1st ability is basically fodder to put a Helminth infusion onto, which is already a bad sign. It also supposedly has a multitude of bugs as well as deals almost no damage, but I do not know how true or prevalent this is because I infused over it.

HIs 2nd ability is a crowd control that pushes enemies away and lifts them in the air. Okay, sure, not the most useful but has some utility. But oh wait, it has an enemy cap for some reason. I see no reason an ability that applies the most annoying status (lifted) in the game as well as pushes enemies away in a looter-shooter needs the hinderance of an enemy cap.

His 3rd ability summons 3 Conculysts. This gives him high survivability with Shield Gating since they restore his shields, but thats about it. The Conculysts have poor pathing sometimes, and they often get teleported back to Caliban because they go too far to try and attack an enemy. They also are the weakest Sentient (with adaptation) in comparison to the more interesting Sentients that arrived en masse with the New War. Even Battalysts would be better, but alas.

His 4th ability is the only arguably 'good' ability. It's an armor/defense stripping ability that can be boosted to 100% armor strip. This is fantastic. The only downside is the massive energy cost, slightly sluggish casting speed, and needing a good bit of range to be efficient. I will say that is has some utility over other armor strips due to it affecting things it probably shouldn't, such as Stalker, Eximus Units with Overguard active, and more. This gives Caliban a slight niche as an armor stripper, due to these unique properties. Should these ever be fixed, he will fall deeper into the pit of irrelativity.

His passive is negligible on himself, having relatively low health compared to his shields, but it can be useful for granting mini-adaptation to his allies. Inaros, Nidus, and Kullervo likely love a Caliban on their team. However, nothing a Wisp or Trinity couldn't do better.

His signature weapon, Venato, has no unique gimmick aside from having a chance to grant additional combo when wielded by Caliban. The scythes mediocre stats, along with boring bonus, make for a disappointing signature weapon.

All of these combine to make the most 'meh' frame in the game, aside from maybe Limbo, but even Limbo can have some use on defensive missions. Everything Caliban does can be done by someone better.

 

TENNOGEN AND POPULARITY

Due to all of the above facts, Caliban has an incredibly low play rate. The Warframe usage stats for 2023 show he has a 0.16% playrate. Qorvex, who released only a few weeks before the stats were released, was at 0.13% playrate. This is abysmal, and its the only base warframe Caliban beats that does not have a prime. This means Caliban loses in popularity to Yareli, Kullervo, Protea (soon to be released though), Styanax, Dagath, Citrine, Gyre, Voruna, and Qorvex, all who came after his release.

Obviously, due to lack of popularity, there is less of a want for skins or cosmetics for him, both from DE themselves as well as fans. As of this post, Caliban has two tennogen posts, one being a remake of the previous. Miraculously, this item was added, but it is only a helmet, not a skin. (Still a great cosmetic, and I even wear it! Go support the creator LostEpoch!)

 

DEVELOPER IGNORANCE
Last Devstream, they mentioned that Dante would be the first male-warframe that floats. This includes his animations while moving and attacking. While the last part is true, Caliban floats in his idle animations, making the statement untrue to a degree. While likely a mistake, it shows the developers overall indifference towards Caliban.

 

The last Devstream also showcased that some newer Warframes would be getting augments. This included Styanax, Citrine, Gyre, and Kullervo, all who released AFTER Caliban, who has not received a single augment since his release.

 

In Devstream 176, when Pablo asked chat to list who they thought was up next for rework, there were about as many 'Caliban' messages as 'Inaros'. As we know, Inaros is getting reworked. I am fine with this, due to Inaros being in-game longer, and being in more need than even Caliban of a rework. I still believe that the amount of people asking about a rework shows the communities general distaste for the frame.

 

CONCLUSION

As I stated at the beginning of this post, I know I have a lot of bias since I am a Caliban main. I simply made this post to discuss Caliban and his balance with my fellow players while hopefully avoiding the repeated 'jokes' about his irrelevance. I thank you all for reading and look forward to discussing our favorite useless Sentient Frame.

 

[Marvelous_A]

He was ignored by the augment and cosmetic department (and I don't know why). While obviously he can receive a lot of QoL buff, he's mechanically a very viable warframe since he does pretty much everything to an ok extent. Maybe people just think he's a very boring warframe without a real niche, and he looks kinda ugly.

[Aruquae]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Tursko said:

If you bring up Caliban, you're met with 'who's Caliban' and other totally originally statements, which sure, are funny once or twice, but it's also a clear sign something needs to be done for the poor frame.

Guilty of saying this. I don’t have anything against Caliban… but this is just my way of pointing out DE forgot him. 

 

6 minutes ago, Dr.Tursko said:

There isn't even a Leverian for him, his prex-card is instead just located randomly in Drifter's Camp.

You’ll get used to it. Cries in Garuda lore

7 minutes ago, Dr.Tursko said:

All of these combine to make the most 'meh' frame in the game, aside from maybe Limbo, but even Limbo can have some use on defensive missions. Everything Caliban does can be done by someone better.

THANK YOU. This is his main problem, the fact that all of his abilities are just… reused old abilities that do everything the old ones do… but worse. It’s bland, and the fact that they’re so meh is even worse.

 

8 minutes ago, Dr.Tursko said:

Obviously, due to lack of popularity, there is less of a want for skins or cosmetics for him, both from DE themselves as well as fans. As of this post, Caliban has two tennogen posts, one being a remake of the previous. Miraculously, this item was added, but it is only a helmet, not a skin. (Still a great cosmetic, and I even wear it! Go support the creator LostEpoch!)

This is more so on creators. If I were a creator some frames would never get Tennogen just because I don’t use them. 

 

9 minutes ago, Dr.Tursko said:

The last Devstream also showcased that some newer Warframes would be getting augments. This included Styanax, Citrine, Gyre, and Kullervo, all who released AFTER Caliban, who has not received a single augment since his release.

This just shows DE’s complete lack of care for the frame. Caliban was just released for the New War, a quest that quickly overshadowed him. It was like “We made a sentient frame”… that is it. That’s his thing, being sentient themed. 

 

11 minutes ago, Dr.Tursko said:

I thank you all for reading and look forward to discussing our favorite useless Sentient Frame.

Honestly? You weren’t biased there imo. You managed to talk about all the negatives, and… the few positives. 

[Mazifet]

1 minute ago, Marvelous_A said:

Maybe people just think he's a very boring warframe without a real niche

I feel like that's the biggest issue with him, same with Styanax. They are both just kind of there, not really doing anything bad but also not having a unique identity.

[Drachnyn]

The basic chain of events seemed like it was:

• Finally we can ship new war
• oops we forgot to make #grind #content, lets just add another set of bounties
• oops we forgot to make #rewards for those, lets just put the frame there
• no one cared for another set of bounties with very weird reward rotations on top of that

For me personally the problem was that TNW was such a bad quest story wise that i just closed the game afterwards until archons came out.

[Aruquae]

7 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

They are both just kind of there, not really doing anything bad but also not having a unique identity.

At least Styanax has abilities that differentiate him from the group… Caliban just has his buggy sentients.

[Dr.Tursko]

Just now, Aruquae said:

At least Styanax has abilities that differentiate him from the group… Caliban just has his buggy sentients.

Styanax can use his Overguard Augment to basically face any level of content. Caliban has to shield-gate and pray.

[Aruquae]

3 minutes ago, Dr.Tursko said:

Styanax can use his Overguard Augment to basically face any level of content. Caliban has to shield-gate and pray.

PRECISELY, Not to mention Styanax released after Caliban, and already got augments, Tennogen, a Deluxe skin, and he’s seen a few buffs throughout his time. 
Caliban though, poor dude got nothing. 

Semi related, but I think the Eclipse helminth makeover will be a great idea for Caliban. Makes him more versatile/tanky. I’m going to try that on my Caliban build.

Also, while I’m at it, what’s your Caliban build? 

[Waeleto]

What does Caliban offer that other warframes don't offer better ?

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, Waeleto said:

What does Caliban offer that other warframes don't offer better ?

Amogus chest

[Dr.Tursko]

5 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Also, while I’m at it, what’s your Caliban build? 

Primed Sure Footed, Nourish over his 1. Molt augmented and Molt Efficiency

Growing Power, Rolling Guard, Power Drift, Primed Flow, Stretch, Transient Fortitude, Primed Continuity, Augur Reach, Intensify
red archon shards for duration. Experimenting with using a single orange shard to get shields for dealing blast damage (which his 4th ability does)

[Skoomaseller]

7 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

What does Caliban offer that other warframes don't offer better ?

Look #*!%ing awesome with the Cranion helmet

[Aruquae]

Just now, Dr.Tursko said:

Primed Sure Footed, Nourish over his 1. Molt augmented and Molt Efficiency

Growing Power, Rolling Guard, Power Drift, Primed Flow, Stretch, Transient Fortitude, Primed Continuity, Augur Reach, Intensify
red archon shards for duration. Experimenting with using a single orange shard to get shields for dealing blast damage (which his 4th ability does)

I see, I tried the orange shards, but those things are like his sentients. You need to have shields for that, which is why I put that aura mod who’s name isn’t important enough for me to remember. (Energy into shield or something). 
I think a buff that would be beneficial to Caliban would be making his sentients a one time 75 energy summon. All three in one click. Either that or 25 energy for one, (because 75 is expensive even without blind rage). 
Another tweak would be counting his second (if not removing it completely) as an actual lift status. Along with a larger wave (not as important though). His Ult is good… wouldn’t know what to do with it. As for his one… DELETE IT. Or just a heavy tweak idk.
 

[trst]

Caliban simply can't ever be a popular frame due to inherently being the most generalist design. Which is disappointing as his kit is perfect for the Sentient theming.

It's pretty much the same issue as old Oberon had who was also ignored due to being another generalist frame (and even still is among one of the lowest combined play rates).

 

10 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

What does Caliban offer that other warframes don't offer better ?

The ability to simultaneously have built in DR, healing, damage amp, shield gating synergy, and armor stripping before Helminth/Augments. No other frame boasts this many mechanics without needing to dip into other upgrade systems while Caliban has his options still open. Yeah none of it is the best in their categories but it's the sheer diversity that sets his kit apart.

[Skoomaseller]

i think it's less "hatred" and more cracking jokes over how forgotten Cacaliban is. it's likely the community's way of telling DE "hey guys, Caliban exists yknow."

i totally understand the developer ignorance part, especially since i main Yareli. she's gotten much more attention, don't get me wrong, but they're still ignoring the bugs that plague Merulina.

I'm not asking for perfection, but i feel that it should be a priority. i suppose DE doesn't feel the same way, given that they're releasing a new augment that overrides Merulina entirely. 

I hope after Inaros, DE focuses on buffing the hell out of Caliban, or outright rework him. I don't think he needs a full kit rework, but something to replace his 1, and massive buffs to his passive, 2, 3 and 4 would do wonders. 

Caliban's existence is truly one of tragedy. Ever since he was introduced, I always felt like he was made just to fill in the loot tables for Narmer bounties, unlike Revenant who is completely bonkers and not just there to fill in the loot tables for Plains bounties. That's a really, really sorry state of existence. 

Edited February 26 by Skoomaseller

[0_The_F00l]

It's not news that DE doesn't love all their frames equally.

There is a very clear bias , depending on who was steering the development of said frame.

Some frames get more reworks than some frames get bug fixes.

[Aruquae]

4 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

Cacaliban

No way that wasn’t intentional 

 

3 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

There is a very clear bias , depending on who was steering the development of said frame.

Voruna getting a ton of tweaks to make her perfect (not complaining there). 
Along with Wisp Prime’s bugs getting fixed even though Garuda Prime had the exact same bugs for years… (still does)

[Rawbeard]

I never seen anyone care enough to have strong emotions toward Caliban.

[SneakyErvin]

He's just a very un-tweaked frame. Extremely slow skills and so on. There are just many frames that does what Calibum does but better and faster, or well smoother.

[Dr.Tursko]

1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

I never seen anyone care enough to have strong emotions toward Caliban.

[Aerikx]

This is why and I know some people think I write it to be funny or dramatic. But zi actually means it...

Caliban need a full on remake. Not a rework, not a tweak, a full fledged remake. 

Delete him as is, period, straight down the the concept art and concept planning, then rebuild him from the conceptual ground up. 

They sure didn't sit on their laurels and let Yareli (once the worst frame in the entire game) stay there. They reworked her ASAP.

But Caliban? He's been sitting at the very bottom (just below Yareli) for years now.

Do we truly have to wait for Caliban Prime for him to get fixed and actually be....good? 

It triggers me cause he's one of the more unique frames. And given the sentient theme there is A LOT that he could do but instead he just kind of exists. 

Playing him feels like playing a normal Amalgam Exilus unit. Which isn't a very good feeling. 

He deserves better. Hell...even Yareli deserves better. (Her lore needs to be rewritten. Cause her own lore essentially establishes her as the weakest Warframe ever made.)

[ReddyDisco]

Cali who?

DE's drunk message to ex at 2am moment, best to be forgotten.

he needs a hydriod level rework tbh 

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

I will say that is has some utility over other armor strips due to it affecting things it probably shouldn't, such as Stalker, Eximus Units with Overguard active, and more. This gives Caliban a slight niche as an armor stripper, due to these unique properties.

Stripping eximus through Overguard is standard.   I would not be surprised if there are a few exceptions, but I can't think of them.   All the strips I use regularly work: Fusion Strike, Sonic Fracture, Seeking Shuriken, Terrify, Tharros Strike, Pillage, HG/Reckoning, Caustic Strike, Corrosive, Shattering Impact...  Frost Avalanche was one originally, but was fixed by DE early on.

 

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

 

DEVELOPER IGNORANCE
Last Devstream, they mentioned that Dante would be the first male-warframe that floats. This includes his animations while moving and attacking. While the last part is true, Caliban floats in his idle animations, making the statement untrue to a degree. While likely a mistake, it shows the developers overall indifference towards Caliban.

When even creators forgets about you :|

2 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

HIs 2nd ability is a crowd control that pushes enemies away and lifts them in the air. Okay, sure, not the most useful but has some utility. But oh wait, it has an enemy cap for some reason. I see no reason an ability that applies the most annoying status (lifted) in the game as well as pushes enemies away in a looter-shooter needs the hinderance of an enemy cap.

It has some damage buff... but it's so low that it's hardly visible on low strength builds.

It has synergy(ies) with first but it's not that great - it's not very controlable.

2 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

 

His 3rd ability summons 3 Conculysts. This gives him high survivability with Shield Gating since they restore his shields, but thats about it. The Conculysts have poor pathing sometimes, and they often get teleported back to Caliban because they go too far to try and attack an enemy. They also are the weakest Sentient (with adaptation) in comparison to the more interesting Sentients that arrived en masse with the New War. Even Battalysts would be better, but alas.

I wish they got teleported back. My few tries with that ability yields almost no shield restore, even at the casttime. It should be just % regen based on number of sentients.

2 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

His 4th ability is the only arguably 'good' ability. It's an armor/defense stripping ability that can be boosted to 100% armor strip. This is fantastic. The only downside is the massive energy cost, slightly sluggish casting speed, and needing a good bit of range to be efficient. I will say that is has some utility over other armor strips due to it affecting things it probably shouldn't, such as Stalker, Eximus Units with Overguard active, and more. This gives Caliban a slight niche as an armor stripper, due to these unique properties. Should these ever be fixed, he will fall deeper into the pit of irrelativity.

It's not that bad... for static missions like mobile defense (like Xaku).

2 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

His 1st ability is basically fodder to put a Helminth infusion onto, which is already a bad sign. It also supposedly has a multitude of bugs as well as deals almost no damage, but I do not know how true or prevalent this is because I infused over it.

It has some damage but it's meant to be played with 4th (and 2nd), which is another problem (later).

With my old build, with 222% strength:

I can deal with corrupted butcher (102 level -> 5 second, 180 level ->  6--7; sp version: 15 & 16-17 all cases with 1+2 cast). With armor strip I can say that at C.Butcher level it would be fine... damage wise. You can even deal with corrupted heavy gunner... at 50 level with 1,2 and 4. Forget about higher rank or SP.

 

That's honestly not big problem... I mean it is but there are worse stuff.

- You can raise your damage (~1000k  deals slightly less than 2x damage). However it drains more. IMHO you could sustain ~1k without too much cast. 2-3k is too much. Maybe if you run efficiency/duration it may be better. I have 133 duration afair with 3 e/s drain. It's useless (2-3k) with p.flow. Not to mention you cannot get loot.

-  You cannot move easily. One way to move is to use above damage boost to "jump to enemy".

- You can cast 2nd that helps dealing with higher level butcher or heavies but it costs 50 energy and, as you noted, spreads enemies (1st on jump spreads as well).

- The highest damage boost is using 4th. However you cannot cast it while doing 1st. And it costs 100 energy. For 50 corrupted heavy gunner, 175 energy + Spin drain is laughable.

3 hours ago, Aruquae said:

3 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

All of these combine to make the most 'meh' frame in the game, aside from maybe Limbo, but even Limbo can have some use on defensive missions. Everything Caliban does can be done by someone better.

THANK YOU. This is his main problem, the fact that all of his abilities are just… reused old abilities that do everything the old ones do… but worse. It’s bland, and the fact that they’re so meh is even worse.

I think it's little bit creative but implementation sucks. Like which frame spins & jumps to enemies? It may be not for you and not the best but it's till pretty unique. It's like pre-rework grendel/pulverize. You put so much effort to keep his balls and it's not useful. Now it's better imho.

 

 

[KitMeHarder]

3 hours ago, trst said:

The ability to simultaneously have built in DR, healing, damage amp, shield gating synergy, and armor stripping before Helminth/Augments. No other frame boasts this many mechanics

If you extrapolate any frame's kit enough, 95-100% of them won't have another frame the does everything that the original frame does. This is just a bad justification, in the same sense I can say Caliban does nothing because he doesn't have status immunity, energy regen, bonus loot, invisibility, etc.... This doesn't really show what Caliban does better than another frame, you just created a pigeonhole you knew no frame could 5/5.

Not to mention many frames have just as many mechanics, if not significantly more (especially once you remove the arbitrary augment restriction). With many of said mechanics being significantly better than what Caliban offers.

4 hours ago, Mazifet said:

same with Styanax. They are both just kind of there, not really doing anything bad but also not having a unique identity.

Styanax is definitely in the upper echelon both in terms of how good he is and how unique he is. Do you not use his 4?

Edited February 26 by KitMeHarder