Steam Forums and Pride Month

[KIREEK]

This has been researched a few times before, LGBT stuff often pays off in the end, not only it ends up increasing the value of the company overall, but it also benefits the company internally, with things like job motivation or the ability to attract qualified ppl.

Yes, things such as alienating users is a factor, which is deemed less important given the results for DE when the sum of all things are considered.

I don't personally do the things DE would do to minorities, because what you want in the end is an equal treatment, that means no discrimination but also no need overvalue said minorities. I don't recruit to my clan based on those things, i treat players as equals and it's their actions that determines how i perceive them, not their orientation. I know there are clans specifically for LGBT users, but then you're just descriminating against non LGBT users, which isn't ideal. It's a game, you want players to have fun on equal terms.

As for DE, i don't care, because not caring is the most fair thing to do to any LGBT or non LGBT users, you're treated equally in my eyes even if DE want's to uphold  some sort of gold statue to all LGBT fans and if they do it it's because it has a positive impact on the company overall, which isn't ideal either because you never know for sure if the company does these things out of genuine care or if it's just for the profits and/or internal company benefits.

Steamforums........that's the downside of enabling LGBT stuff, DE is aware, they don't care.
My sugestion is just not to care that much about it, take your time to collect images, glyphs and stuff instead of arguing.

Edited June 4 by KIREEK

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

7 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

How is rainbow themed cosmetics a "sledgehammer"? By existing?

I'm not even going to address the rest. 

I'm talking about it through their perception of the idea being akin to something jarring and heavy-handed, not it being a literal sledgehammer approach across the board. To them, it's a lot like taking a bat to things they enjoy, they just see it as something that abrasive.

Obviously that's an extreme view of the topic and folks generally overreact, but it's how some people view the situation. In reality this stuff has been around for ages, but we're talking about people's feelings here more than logic at the end of the day.

I'm also referring to Pride Month as a whole, not the benign cosmetics themselves. Everyone's been talking about the broader scope so I'm not sure why you'd boil it down that much.

Edited June 3 by (XBOX)Graysmog

[Hayrack]

I blame it on increased Solar activity. Flare storms trigger health problems and wreck emotional state in some people.

Edited June 3 by Hayrack

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

7 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Sledgehammer analogy might not have been the best way to put it...

Think of it this way; when someone who's been raised with a very rigid notions of what's 'right' and what's 'wrong', they're far less likely to change their beliefs. Trying to challenge their beliefs too much too quickly can make them close themselves off to the possibility that their beliefs might not actually be good or right, possibly to the point of doubling down or even becoming belligerent against any/all who oppose said beliefs. 

What @(XBOX)Graysmog is saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that sometimes if you want to change someone's views on things, you need to take a softer, slower approach. While younger people can adjust their beliefs far more easily, those who are older are far less likely to be receptive of anything that challenges their beliefs. In the latter case, a 'sledgehammer' approach (i.e. suddenly bombarding them with things that run contrary to their belief) will almost never work, and may actually do more harm than good... versus a slower approach to ease them into the idea that maybe their beliefs were wrong would yield far better results for all parties involved.

That said, given that we're in the information age and Pride Month isn't exactly new, I wouldn't equate it to a 'sledgehammer' approach by any means. Maybe the first ever Pride Month, sure, but it should hardly be a shock at this point unless someone's been living under a rock and this is their first time seeing it. Even so, participation isn't mandatory, no one is being forced to celebrate it against their will. It's a month for the LGBTQ+ community to celebrate themselves. Their celebrating who they are harms literally no one. Just like those who celebrate Hannukah or Christmas or other observances aren't harming anyone.

Well yes, and what I'm referring to is people with that mindset thinking you're taking a sledgehammer to things they enjoy. It's not my actual opinion on the topic, but an example of how those people see LGBT practices. They have a much narrower, misconstrued view of the topic since most of them are just older and have grown up with different beliefs.

To them, it's fundamentally trying to change their opinion in a forceful manner, if you will, with little care for what it breaks. Since a lot of misinformed people think Pride Month is trying to change you as a person when it's really just trying to inform and celebrate. A lot of folks think this since they're seeing the movement as an outsider looking in, so they see things like drama or really bad edge cases and assume that's all there is to the topic. They think it's the worst thing ever, so they actively seek out the worst of it to validate their beliefs. Some people like the echo chambers they have and they hate it when you tap the glass.

They don't feel like they're slowly eased into the movement as you stated, it's again, like they're being thrown into the deep end of a pool for them mentally (even though it's nothing new). That's because it's a generational difference that'll lessen with time, as with many other events in history like science being accepted and gay marriage. 

Edited June 3 by (XBOX)Graysmog

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, Genitive said:

If homosexuality bothers you unless it's relevant to the plot then I don't know what to tell you. Some characters are just going to be gay, just as some people in the real world are gay. We live in a more and more tolerant society and you will see more and more queer characters in fiction. That's just reality.

Way to scew what was said while ignoring the sentence following right after the one you quoted. But I guess if you had included the part where I say I enjoyed another show that brought up homosexuality in a good way your narrative wouldnt really have worked. Your whole post is quite simply you trying to uhm I dont know what to call it... Rainbowsplain, gaysplain, queersplain to a straight person. A straight person that has already stated quite clearly they have no problem with gay characters, but a problem with how it was dealt with in 7of9's case and other similar ones. And this goes for all other bad writing aswell, no matter the subject.

Like the late 80's and 90's movies that had to have "erotic" scenes in them even though they werent erotic movies. It added zero. At the same time, the erotic nature of something like GoT actually does something for the plot and characters. Same as in Vikings, when Ragnar boinks Lagertha infront of their freshly obtained monk pet.

22 hours ago, Genitive said:

That's cherry picking. There are plenty of pride parades without oversexualisation. People you're describing don't represent everyone, making blanket statements is unfair and harmful.

It isnt cherry picking. It is the most common thing you see when watching news photage of the parades and have been so for a few years. And we arent talking some conservative news channels here, we are talking non-colored public service news that push no opinions whatsoever, they just report from the events and film the parades. Where you see the oversexualized part mixed with the normal, in the middle among children that are there with their families to watch or march.

In the end it falls on the organizers, which would be the LGBTQ+ community. They have the power to not allow that type of behavior, to not allow those people to march with them. This is afterall a public happening, a public gathering, on streets and squares in the middle of the day, not in some private place during an after party or similar, but on the public streets of a city.

And the only thing harmful here are those that dress in that way when the idea behind the celebrations is to make people aware and raise the acceptance for the "alternate" sexual communities since they arent really different from "normal" people. Yet those clowns show the opposite, and the community does nothing about it. Last time I checked, flashing is illegal in most places, and an even bigger offense when children are involved.

[Genitive]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Way to scew what was said while ignoring the sentence following right after the one you quoted. But I guess if you had included the part where I say I enjoyed another show that brought up homosexuality in a good way your narrative wouldnt really have worked. Your whole post is quite simply you trying to uhm I dont know what to call it... Rainbowsplain, gaysplain, queersplain to a straight person. A straight person that has already stated quite clearly they have no problem with gay characters, but a problem with how it was dealt with in 7of9's case and other similar ones. And this goes for all other bad writing aswell, no matter the subject.

I focused on the first part because you clearly made a distinction between good and bad portrayal of homosexuality. You say you don't have a problem with one, but the other is bad for whatever reason. Why? Because Seven of Nine had relationships with men, and then with a woman? Would you have this problem if her latest partner was a man? You do realise some people are bisexual, or discover they're not straight later in life, right? If there is another reason, do tell. 

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It isnt cherry picking. It is the most common thing you see when watching news photage of the parades and have been so for a few years. And we arent talking some conservative news channels here, we are talking non-colored public service news that push no opinions whatsoever, they just report from the events and film the parades. Where you see the oversexualized part mixed with the normal, in the middle among children that are there with their families to watch or march.

A simple google search shows it's not true. And don't start with the children, we both know that's a poor excuse. Pride marches have been happening for decades now, the kids who attend the seem to be fine.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Miserable people will be miserable regardless of the topic. The same people will be upset anytime they see a gathering of people having fun. 

[HeavyFarms]

 

On 2024-06-02 at 5:56 AM, Zimzala said:

discriminated against for being non-cis-gendered 

Please refrain from using the term "Cis" or "cis-gendered" as its a discriminatory term. 

If you care about discrimination, don't discriminate others with labels they disagree with. 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb HeavyFarms:

 

Please refrain from using the term "Cis" or "cis-gendered" as its a discriminatory term. 

If you care about discrimination, don't discriminate others with labels they disagree with. 

Is there a list for these terms? Because the rules change too quickly, I can't keep up.

[Zimzala]

12 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

Please refrain from using the term "Cis" or "cis-gendered" as its a discriminatory term. 
If you care about discrimination, don't discriminate others with labels they disagree with. 

Well, I just did a little reading since this is the first I have heard of someone, anyone, being offended by the usage.

I understand it might offend some people based on the reading I have done, but to elevate it to the level of 'discriminatory' seems a bit disingenuous from my point of view.

Disagreement and discrimination are not really the same thing.

I will thank you for showing me something I did not previously know.

Edited June 3 by Zimzala

[Zimzala]

3 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

Is there a list for these terms? Because the rules change too quickly, I can't keep up.

https://studentaffairs.psu.edu/csgd/explore-lgbtq-resources/identity-based/gender-terms

Here is one.

[Letter13]

2 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

Please refrain from using the term "Cis" or "cis-gendered" as its a discriminatory term. 

If you care about discrimination, don't discriminate others with labels they disagree with. 

1 minute ago, Venus-Venera said:

Is there a list for these terms? Because the rules change too quickly, I can't keep up.

Just now, Zimzala said:

Well, I just did a little reading since this is the first I have heard of someone, anyone, being offended by the usage.

 

Cisgendered is not a slur. It's the word that describes someone who identifies as the sex they were born as. Doubly so given the context of the comment; it wasn't being used maliciously, to disparage or insult... it was used because that is in fact the actual term used for individuals who are not transgender.

'Cisgendered' is the opposite meaning of 'Transgendered', and 'Cis' is the opposite of 'Trans'; basically if you're saying 'Cis' and 'Cisgendered' are a slur, then by extension you would need to recognize 'Trans' and 'Transgendered' as slurs... which they most certainly are not.

That isn't to say the word cannot be used as a slur, but that requires context; just about any word can be used as a slur... take the word 'Gay' for example, or even more innocuous words like 'Tool'.

 

On a semi-related tangent, it may have been more apt, however, for Zimzala to say 'cisgendered and heterosexual media' because cisgendered-ness does not preclude homosexual or bisexual preferences.

[MagPrime]

21 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

 

Please refrain from using the term "Cis" or "cis-gendered" as its a discriminatory term. 

If you care about discrimination, don't discriminate others with labels they disagree with. 

Cis- is Latin for "same side as" meaning your gender aligns with your sex.  Its why Trans- is used as an opposite, it means "across"

Has it been used in a derogatory manner?  Yeah.  Anything can be used that way.  But it is not inherently a slur or discrimination to use it. 

Edited June 3 by MagPrime

[HeavyFarms]

4 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Cisgendered is not a slur.

I disagree. Lived experience. Has been used in a divisive manner in a us against "Them" manner. 

Will respectfully leave it there. 

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Cis- is Latin for "same side as" meaning your gender aliens with your sex.  

Its redundant. And its use has formed my opinion on the matter. If was harmless, I would not care. 


 

[MagPrime]

15 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

I disagree. Lived experience. Has been used in a divisive manner in a us against "Them" manner. 

Will respectfully leave it there. 

Its redundant. And its use has formed my opinion on the matter. If was harmless, I would not care. 


 

I respect that you've experienced it being used as a slur, it's something I too have run into with the extreme parts of the LGBTQ+ community but, that doesn't inherently make it one. 

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

Not sure if I've chimed into this topic before, since it's quite the topic, but I have nothing to lose, might as well speak my heart.

I find having a whole month dedicated to a collective of people based on their sexual preferences rather unnecessary.
Say, I am the most "normal" person you might find around, a white heterosexual young guy. There's no month for heterosexual pride - some would say that all days, all months -, no event where companies or institutions cater to my "me" that I am, and that is totally fine, and understandable, as it is deemed to be normal based on millenniums of folk instructing it to be so.

For the latter part of the last century things started to change, more rapidly, more drastically, and I do believe there was one person who can represent my thoughts exactly, merely by mentioning their name: Freddy Mercury. We all know Freddy was gay, and after watching Bohemian Rhapsody it became quite clear to me he was very exalted about this. I have a couple gay friends, one clearly is more leaning towards this silly-diva style from time to time, the other is more tranquil, but for me the most important part has never been them being gay, it has been them being them, my friends and the people I love because of who they are.

I do wish for a world where heterosexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals or asexual people alike are tranquil knowing they're all seen as equal and normal as are people like me now (even if you are sort of a weirdo but so am I), so that everyday, is not a day to be worried about who you are for the rest of the world to see. However, it is true that from a few years til now things have taken a turn for the darker when it comes to the LGTB(A?) community, with the addition of almost makeshift sexual identities some which are deplorable, or the Pandora's box of "genders", and the unnecessary exaltation of these in many media formats, along other things.

Here where I live of course this hasn't been a happening at all, as much as the sad case in my city of a young guy being [redacted] precisely for being gay, which happened a few months ago, so it's not like I can speak from experience, as much as I speak from the view of someone who sees these things from the other side of the window. Here, honestly it's perfect, it doesn't matter, everyone is equal, even if there's extremists / outliners as the pointed case, which are a disgrace.

 

Now, regarding corporative greed and the leeching to these type of events which were not as big of a thing until a few years back, I find it quite naive to judge DE for it as they've been advocates for this cause for a long time, and almost every time they get a chance they do charity events for multitude of different organisations, as were during Tennobaum, this months precisely, Movember, so on and so forth. It might be purely for the image, some may say which probably up to an extent is, but if what they are doing is having a real positive impact on the lives of people, then I rather them keep doing so.
A couple rainbow themed cosmetics on my shop being available for a month or a small news page on their website won't ruin Warframe in any shape way or form, they are just more cosmetics, although I do admit to not personally fancying them to the point of carry, some are really cute thought so they are posted around my orbiter.

And you know, ironically, Warframe narrates sort of this utopia when it comes to the normalisation of sexual preferences and love in a very natural and not annoying way, which is why I believe the game does such a good job at, perhaps, making LTGB players happy. Look at Lotus & Ballas, Varzia & Maroo, Dagath's lore, Loid even as a more recent case, there's probably more that I do not recall from tip of my tongue, but they are all stories within the game that you can learn about.
They are subtle in some cases more than others, and they don't really matter for the sake of the game's story, as much as they are additive to the worldbuilding, and that's what makes their implementation perfect, to me that is.

What's more, Warframe probably caters to all of us when it comes to those preferences.
Look at that new Ember Heirloom / Jade / Yareli Deluxe skin, what did I think the moment I saw it? It's absolutely stunning, elegant, sexy, everything I love as an heterosexual guy, as so would most surely, a lesbian, or say Styanax's Deluxe, what did I think the moment I saw it? It's absolutely stunning, exotic, sexy - not a fan of the nipple things though - and so would most surely, a gay. I have a friend who loves muscle girls, so of course he likes Hildryn.
There's a thing for everyone, or almost everyone, in this game.

People having meltdowns over pride months celebrations are a reflection of how they've been raised and the environments they live in.
Disgracefully, a rather new idea - in contrast - is having to fight with the inflicted, for a lack of better words, ideas that generations upon generations have taught them, generating moral conflicts because they cannot let go of the past and "bubble reality" they've been raised with. We live in micro-cosmoses, and some people live almost as if a book was written in stone for them and they close themselves to the different, but that's us, that's humanity.

But humanity evolves and changes, so one day I'm sure most people will be at a "place of understanding", rather than closed in to the past that merely prevents us from being more than what we can be. TL:DR; enjoy yourself, there will always be someone out there who dislikes you for it, and that is fine.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

16 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

I disagree. Lived experience. Has been used in a divisive manner in a us against "Them" manner. 

Will respectfully leave it there. 

Its redundant. And its use has formed my opinion on the matter. If was harmless, I would not care. 


 

This is where I think one of the main negative and frustrating views of the movement comes in. As people try to learn and support the LGBT+ movement, they realize that it becomes increasingly difficult as the chances of unintentionally disrespecting a particular group grows quite rapidly. This is made even worse when we consider the "training" required for each living generation. My wife's co-worker is an older lesbian woman and she has an extremely hard time trying to explain all of the "updates", as she calls them. Allies become too frustrated and are faster to say "I'm over it", which them results in potential issues. What is the best pathway to address this?

On the flip side, we have some conservative movements (not all) that would like to place the world into a significantly smaller list of what makes up an ideal people. Ignoring or being annoyed by the "problem" is not a solution, neither are threats and violence. That only results in a strengthening of every other group, religion, political faction or opposition. Everyone has their ideal society, so attempting to force ones own over everyone else's is not it. So, how do we break this group out of the narrow fantasy and into a broader, more accepting one? 

Personally, these two major issues are what makes Pride month so valuable. EVERYONE involved needs to be reigned in...some more than others...and that's how it should be. Once that gets to a good enough space, I think all of society can begin step forward together. 

Happy Pride month, from a heterosexual couple to all of you. 😁

 

[MagPrime]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

This is where I think one of the main negative and frustrating views of the movement comes in. As people try to learn and support the LGBT+ movement, they realize that it becomes increasingly difficult as the chances of unintentionally disrespecting a particular group grows quite rapidly. This is made even worse when we consider the "training" required for each living generation. My wife's co-worker is an older lesbian woman and she has an extremely hard time trying to explain all of the "updates", as she calls them. Allies become too frustrated and are faster to say "I'm over it", which them results in potential issues. What is the best pathway to address this?

On the flip side, we have some conservative movements (not all) that would like to place the world into a significantly smaller list of what makes up an ideal people. Ignoring or being annoyed by the "problem" is not a solution, neither are threats and violence. That only results in a strengthening of every other group, religion, political faction or opposition. Everyone has their ideal society, so attempting to force ones own over everyone else's is not it. So, how do we break this group out of the narrow fantasy and into a broader, more accepting one? 

Personally, these two major issues are what makes Pride month so valuable. EVERYONE involved needs to be reigned in...some more than others...and that's how it should be. Once that gets to a good enough space, I think all of society can begin step forward together. 

Happy Pride month, from a heterosexual couple to all of you. 😁

 

This is fairly accurate from what I've seen.  

Overall, I think consistent information would make things easier on everyone, as right now there's several sub-groups working with their own ideas of what turns out to be the same thing.  Quality of education plays a HUGE role in the splintering of the community and how it impacts allies.

As to members being reigned in, yeah.  Everyone involved needs to be aware of what extremism does to themselves, their community & their movement.  While it has its uses, it shouldn't be the first or only answer. 

[Zimzala]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Miserable people will be miserable regardless of the topic. The same people will be upset anytime they see a gathering of people having fun. 

This fact brings me a tremendous amount of schadenfreude based pleasure, one of the reasons many posters here see me as the enemy, but truth is truth, I find joy in the fact that people just enjoying their happy, loving, peaceful lives brings others who harbor hate so much frustration and angst.

Willful ignorance hurts all of us and I really do enjoy seeing the willfully ignorant get upset by other people finding happiness and love.

If that makes me a bad person to some people, oh well.

I try and have some level of pity for them, I try to educate in my own way, but at a certain point, I have to accept that they are incapable of change and tolerance, and I try to find joy where I can, even when it's based on schadenfreude...

The world still spins, the sun still rises, I still have to pay taxes, eat, sleep and poop, regardless of how some willfully ignorant people view other humans, so I might as well enjoy life while I am at it, rather than living in misery that 'those' people over there are 'not like me'.

Edited June 3 by Zimzala

[Hypernaut1]

20 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

This fact brings me a tremendous amount of schadenfreude based pleasure, one of the reasons many posters here see me as the enemy, but truth is truth, I find joy in the fact that people just enjoying their happy, loving, peaceful lives brings others who harbor hate so much frustration and angst.

Willful ignorance hurts all of us and I really do enjoy seeing the willfully ignorant get upset by other people finding happiness and love.

If that makes me a bad person to some people, oh well.

I try and have some level of pity for them, I try to educate in my own way, but at a certain point, I have to accept that they are incapable of change and tolerance, and I try to find joy where I can, even when it's based on schadenfreude...

The world still spins, the sun still rises, I still have to pay taxes, eat, sleep and poop, regardless of how some willfully ignorant people view other humans, so I might as well enjoy life while I am at it, rather than living in misery that 'those' people over there are 'not like me'.

Imagine logging into Warframe, and being offended by some rainbow cosmetics because of what you think it represents?. It is hilarious if you think about it. 

[Skoomaseller]

people like prexades existing is why pride month is so #*!%ing important lmfao

 

[Skoomaseller]

people like prexades existing is why pride month is so #*!%ing important lmfao

 

[MagPrime]

23 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Imagine logging into Warframe, and being offended by some rainbow cosmetics because of what you think it represents?. It is hilarious if you think about it. 

If you want hilarity, pop into WF Facebook groups and read comments from Warframe players losing their minds for the last 4 days. 

[ToastyGrimlock98]

On 2024-06-02 at 6:56 AM, Zimzala said:

People have also gotten tired of being discriminated against for being non-cis-gendered and having cis people to tell them to be quiet while they produce far more cis oriented media that is in everyone's face, all the time.

It has nothing to do with what happens in the bedroom and everything to do with what happens in the boardroom.

Pride month is about having the courage to be who we are in the face of a group of people that want to silence us, if not outright kill us.

If it makes people think about the topic, that's the point. There are new people everyday who have to learn new things.

If you are already aware of these things, great, but you might want to try and understand that knowledge is not universal and that hate and bigotry are alive and well in 2024.

I don’t think you can really cry discrimination anymore when Corporations, Media, and Governments support you.

Maybe you’re mistaking criticism over how the movement chooses to go about certain things for it. Like I for one will never be comfortable rejecting reality for the sake of someone’s perception. It has nothing to do with any specific movement. It’s my line in the sand. And I know you take issue with that because it goes directly against what you believe is right. Perhaps you need to take a step back and recognize how the rest of us actually see your movement instead of going full blown militant and calling everyone bigots.

Edited June 3 by ToastyGrimlock98

[Prexades]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Skoomaseller:

people like prexades existing is why pride month is so #*!%ing important lmfao

 

If I were really the b-word others accuse me of being, I would egg you on to double down. Because the pattern I see here is:

Let's push it as far as we can and call people names! Followed by: Help! Why aren't we supported anymore?!