Primed Dual Rounds help but they do not solve the arch gun problems

[Prexades]

Baro bringing a primed mod for arch gun that almost doubles the multi-shot compared to the standard one is appreciated. Even so it doesn't solve the problem lack of arcanes and eximus slots and mods.

Aside from arcanes and slots, it might help to allow arch gun users to 'quick melee' while having arch guns active. I.e. allowing basic melee attacks without combo maneuvers or point buildup.

[Xzorn]

Yea, when Archwing was made DE was in their "We hate Multishot" phase which kinda lasted years.

It's funny to think back that Archwing melee was majority used back in the day. The guns were even worse outside Fluctis.

Personally I think some weapon Arcanes are just way too strong and I hate Melee Duplicate because I have to use it. Which cuts out at least 50% of melee weapons if they can't get near 100% Crit Chance. Since I came back I blew around 150 Forma. All my reverses. I question if it's even worth it to forma Archguns right now.

It's not like I use them.

 

[ReddyDisco]

It's crazy we had to make do with 60% multishot mod for years before a primed version today, the 'heavy' in heavy weapons the archguns category refers to is 'heavily ignored'

[ReddyDisco]

-Snip-

Edited June 28 by ReddyDisco
Accidental double post

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Insert your preferred *sad party* gif.

Well, it's something new...at least.

Guess this'll make Formorian Sabotage easier.

Edited June 28 by (PSN)Magician_NG

[16Bitman]

12 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

It's crazy we had to make do with 60% multishot mod for years before a primed version today, the 'heavy' in heavy weapons the archguns category refers to is 'heavily ignored'

The mod used to be 30% MS for 4 years.

[Numerounius]

Keep in mind that we have containment breach for that extra Multishot. Been using that since it is a DPS upgrade. I don't bring AG out that often but I still find it takes care of content.

I'm sick of hearing that everything needs exilus, arcane, kitgun arcane, the two warframe arcanes, then a dedicated Warframe loadout then the fact it still needs more mods it doesn't have just to be "good". By default there is a decent chunk of archguns you can whip out that can take care of the majority of content. Archguns are in no way a problem that needs to be solved.

Are there some things that I'd like such as better integration into content that doesn't contain gear wheel or arch-melee needing some love or how it plays in Railjack? Sure but those are more on the QOL side of things and unless you actually play the content they can be played in I don't think making blanket statements like X piece of content is a problem while highlighting all of the fancy new toys is going to accomplish anything.

Edited June 28 by Numerounius

[Xylena_Lazarow]

1 hour ago, Numerounius said:

I'm sick of hearing that everything needs exilus, arcane, kitgun arcane, the two warframe arcanes, then a dedicated Warframe loadout then the fact it still needs more mods it doesn't have just to be "good". By default there is a decent chunk of archguns you can whip out that can take care of the majority of content. Archguns are in no way a problem that needs to be solved.

Doesn't change the fact that Archguns are a massive downgrade from any decently modded normal gun. You'd think the limited use super weapon with a 5min cooldown (that also disables quick melee) would make you stronger. Not massively weaker. You'd think.

[Guard.tech]

1 час назад, Numerounius сказал:

Archguns are in no way a problem that needs to be solved.

Archguns are supposed to be huge, powerful guns. They should be at least on par with primaries. In the current state they're, in fact, a problem.

[trst]

35 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Doesn't change the fact that Archguns are a massive downgrade from any decently modded normal gun. You'd think the limited use super weapon with a 5min cooldown (that also disables quick melee) would make you stronger. Not massively weaker. You'd think.

They could literally take all the mods and stats of your primary, lose the cooldown, and gain quick melee and they'd still be a massive downgrade.

The entire system just doesn't work thanks to how powercrept damage is.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

9 minutes ago, trst said:

The entire system just doesn't work thanks to how powercrept damage is

They did nail the limited use super weapon concept with Incarnons. Hopefully they can do similar for Archguns.

[VENDOMINUS]

Archgun incarnons coming? That'd be fun. I'd love a Fluctus incanon. It's probably the worst archgun atm and could use some love.

[Waeleto]

TBH idk why archguns have an insane cooldown, it's not like they will EVER outscale incarnon/kuva/tenet weapons

[-Runn_Jegu-]

Couple of archgun arcane ideas I was thinking about, maybe some day we'll get something similar!

Archane Infectious - Deal -30% less damage. +65% of status damage now spreads to nearby enemies, (50m in Zero-G, 15m in Atmosphere)

Archane Vortex - Shooting an enemy rapidly pulls nearby enemies into the center, auto grouping. (50m in Zero-G, 15m in Atmosphere)

 Deals -25% less damage, but gains +10m punch through in Zero-G, +2.5m in Atmosphere.

Archane Compound - Killing an enemy Adds +10% damage for 7 seconds. Max stacks of 25. (Stacks decay one at a time, not all at once to account for dry   periods).

Archane Deathray - Archgun Heat Status effects now stack (+15% Damage for 15s. Stacks up to 300%. All stacks decay at once)

 

 

 

[(PSN)Sentiel]

One of the issues with Archguns is that there is no content difficult enough to warrant their use, if they were as powerful as they should be. Maybe TFO at BEST, but everything else can be easily killed with normal weapons and we usually don't fight gigantic enemies like Eidolons or Ropalolyst where it would make sense for you to want to use a BFG.

[TARINunit9]

Archguns are a very curious case of being overpowered and underpowered at the same time

Look at the Imperator: anti-vehicle machine gun, 300 round magazine with virtually zero recoil and a one second reload? Absolutely busted, the normal weapons can only dream of such handling. It was so powerful, and space enemies so weak, that 60% multi shot was all it NEEDED. It was a hammerhead shark gulping down a puddle of minnows

Then DE moved Archguns into the main ground combat. The hammerhead shark now has to contend with bigger, nastier sharks

[crimsonspartan1]

Should've just gave us Galvanised Dual Rounds TBH.

Also Galvanised Modified Munitions so we can get the +damage per status effect on enemy effect. Dunno what you'd do for a third since there's no crit on headshot mod for Archguns and pretty sure the fall-off mod for Archguns is Ballista Measure but nobody ever uses that mod and Archguns don't have an exilus slot.

Archguns as a whole lack a lot compared to primaries and secondaries, and they're supposed to be our "Big Guns".

[Voltage]

The real problem with Archguns is that all their content was gutted. The only place you'd actually want to use an Archgun is Profit-Taker, and only a small percentage of the roster is worth using in that boss fight. For example, Orphix's introduction to the game immediately revived the Fluctus. Railjack 1.0 made great use of Cyngas and Phaedra due to their high Status Chance to take out fighters. The Jordas Verdict Trial had a real use for Odonata/Prime and Velocitus. 

With that said, I won't disagree that Archgun modding is severely lacking in both potency and consistency. I've been asking for buffed modding functionality as well as detaching Faction Damage from being exclusive to Archgun Riven Mods (among other bonuses). DE has definitely dropped the ball with Archguns and Archmelee in this regard, and this portion of their issues is not really that hard to address. It's a few numerical tweaks and adding a handful of new mods.

However, Archguns lost all their content to have variety worth using, and the same goes for Archwings themselves. If you fixed the handful of modding issues and added content requiring different Archguns to perform well, we'd naturally see Archguns feel less awful. For example, allow players to use their own Archguns in Duviri against the Orowyrm, with their selection being part of the loadout RNG while having the base Imperator as a "base" in-case they don't like their options. Make Corvas Prime an actual shotgun like base Corvas so it's worth using against the Profit-Taker. Add content/enemies that make use of Status-built Archguns. Reward Archgun usage when attacking enemies with Damage Attenuation or Overguard. Add augments to these weapons like we see with Nightwave or Father in the Necralisk. There are several ways to increase the value of Archguns, but just buffing their damage in an arms race where damage hardly has the weight it does anymore in the hopes it solves all their problems is just silly. 

Edited June 28 by Voltage

[Hexerin]

Archguns don't need arcanes or exilus. I've got mine fully modded, and they've always felt like:

This new Primed mod is just going to make it even more so, since now I have guaranteed multishot whereas before that wasn't possible.

[Merkranire]

Wait, are Archguns not inadvertently buffed by the armour changes?

I typically pulled mine out when things got hairy when combining builds and content in ways where my gear was sufficient but not overpowered, and they made for good “Oh crap” options that I can only assume got stronger by a change in a different system

edit: 🤔 Though I guess the armour changes were targeted at making higher-level enemies squishier because people hated how they couldn’t one-shot everything with their uberbuilds, and so the change would have questionable impact elsewhere

Edited June 29 by Merkranire

[Slayer-.]

14 hours ago, (PSN)Magician_NG said:

Insert your preferred *sad party* gif.

Well, it's something new...at least.

Guess this'll make Formorian Sabotage easier.

What was hard about it, at least we have some more multishot now. 

What really needs a rework ^{(not that it'll get done)} is the skills of Archwings, example: I pop off the 4th skill of my flying tank Elytron and the Warhead explosion just pushes enemies away instead of blowing them up or at least doing some damage, the speed of the skill also needs to be sped up, it's sad when I can outfly my Warhead without using boost.

Yeah, a massive explosion is only good for farming by opening all the containers in an area.

Warhead

Launches a plodding missile capable of unleashing a massive explosion.

[iAmSaiya]

I bought this beautiful mod to have nowhere to use it 🫤

[PollexMessier]

I just saw it as a Massive Voidrig buff lol

[Aerikx]

Hmm....

Archwing weapons are indeed, an oddity.

If Forma'd enough, and built right they DO live out that 'Heavy Weapon's fantasy but only CERTAIN ones.

Imperator, Mausolon, Morgha, Grattler, Kuva Ayanga, Larkspur, and Fluctus all perform well if heavily invested into. 

The problem is....they take far more investment than any other weapon. And even then....they only seem to 'feel' overpowered in content where Necramech's are readily available. (Meaning there must be a hidden modifier.) 

Even then, they can feel "bleh" at times. 

I once forgot to change my Loadout and called down the Dual Decurions in a Netracell and basically was like: "Is this....all these can do?"

Edited June 29 by Aerikx