Lessons To Learn From Black Myth Wukong

[Mikhael222]

The Wukong warframe used to be one of my favorite warframes to play with..... until it was nerfed in that rework back in 2018 or whenever it was.  And then Primed Range was also nerfed, making it basically useless, not even amusing for a low-level/just-for-fun build.

Like millions of other gamers, I pre-ordered Black Myth Wukong at full price.  I wanted to play it Day One of release, and I was not disappointed.  The environments are beautiful.  The combat is fluid and feels great.  The abilities are awesome.  I'm not saying DE should copy the game exactly, but DE could certainly take a lot of inspiration from BMW.

1. The Immobilize Spell.  Works well in BMW because it focuses on single-boss combat, but Warframe obviously involves fighting hordes of enemies.  Perhaps Wukong could hold the button to cast an immobilize-like spell on a single target, or tap the same ability button to freeze every enemy within a radius for half the time.
2. The Cloud Walker Spell.  The Wukong warframe has always had this, but the rework nerfed it.  Just un-nerf it.  Make it last longer.  Also, a temporary crit chance after exiting the cloud walker would be cool.
3. The Clone Spell.  I know that the Wukong warframe has "Celestial Twin" in the rework, but to be honest, I always thought it was kinda' pointless.  I liked in BMW that Wukong's clone spell summoned at least a half-dozen clones.  I know that Warframe has to think about server/bandwidth cost, so perhaps, as a trade, spawning multiple Wukongs could prevent the use of spawning any specters from the gear wheel.
4. The Invincibility Spell.  Okay I'll admit the original Wukong Defy could have been a bit broken at times.  With enough duration, you could be invincible for several minutes.  That being said, the BMW version of invincibility is pretty awesome.  You basically become an iron statue for a few seconds, and any enemy that tries to hit you gets knocked back.
5. Stop Taking Advice From Sweet Baby Inc. (Or Similar) Consultants.  Game Science earned an "overwhelmingly positive" rating on Steam from the real "modern audience." I readily spent $60 on BMW, but haven't spent a dime on platinum in several months because frankly, I'm tired and annoyed from rainbows, bunny ears, deluxe skins with unappealing taste (i.e. Wisp, Baruuk, Styanax), and mopey giants caressing each other because they haven't got a clue, a hobby, a life, or whatever is the problem.

[Pakaku]

Judging from what I've seen and heard of the company, I doubt it would be a good idea to lift any inspiration from their games

In any case, when doing something like a warframe redesign or a "lessons learned", don't forget what kind of game Warframe is and isn't trying to be

[zThulsaDoomz]

This is pure comedy if anyone remembers how bad OG Wukong was

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Spoiler

Black List: Slamkong is finally gone. Dive into a world of dark sci-fi, where Slamkongs journey doesn't take you through breathtaking empty tilesets without any battles with terrified foes. Veil the Slamkong and grind for your loot. Available when, DE?

Dunno, the only thing I've seen about Black Myth Wukong is just a bunch of ads. Tbh, anything "wukong" in any media and I'm like, No Thank You. 

[Yamazuki]

13 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Judging from what I've seen and heard of the company, I doubt it would be a good idea to lift any inspiration from their games

You mean the clearly incorrectly translated quotes and fake statements? Quite silly to judge people's work based entirely on lies, or even accusations that had literally zero evidence. Regardless, even if it were true, it has little to do with character design.

________________________________

Although, Warframe and BMW have different combat focuses. Current Wukong also already has multiple immunity abilities, one of which functions similar to what you're asking for.

Edited September 3 by Yamazuki

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

52 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Judging from what I've seen and heard of the company, I doubt it would be a good idea to lift any inspiration from their games

In any case, when doing something like a warframe redesign or a "lessons learned", don't forget what kind of game Warframe is and isn't trying to be

This. 

Something working well in a completely different game doesn't necessarily mean it would work well In warframe.

[Xzorn]

Old Wukong just didn't die. That was all he did. It was useful but pretty bad design.

There were a few funny tricks you could do loike his old Slam Augment and I think Pangolin which had forced Slash Proc on slams. There was no melee LoS at the time so you could just slam dance the entire map away. I didn't use him much after the rework because he was Armor based DR which was useless at higher levels.

I find it odd they nerf'd the AI for Specters. Though that leads into why they never did a big multi-summon frame after Nekros. It's both too strong having so many extra targets for enemies to attack and disruptive to other players. One of my clan mates is blue-green color blind and I like to troll them with Nekros.

I would have done his rework a little differently. He's not bad now that Armor DR works though, esp with his panic buttons.

[4thBro]

51 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

You mean the clearly incorrectly translated quotes and fake statements? Quite silly to judge people's work based entirely on lies, or even accusations that had literally zero evidence. Regardless, even if it were true, it has little to do with character design.

Sorry, nobody read this post. They already moved on to the next hot topic.

[Yamazuki]

8 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Sorry, nobody read this post. They already moved on to the next hot topic.

Not quite sure what you are talking about, or what this has to do with either Wukongs.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 1 hora, Mikhael222 dijo:

1. The Immobilize Spell.  Works well in BMW because it focuses on single-boss combat, but Warframe obviously involves fighting hordes of enemies.  Perhaps Wukong could hold the button to cast an immobilize-like spell on a single target, or tap the same ability button to freeze every enemy within a radius for half the time.

Oh my sweet summer child, you clearly don't play Wukong if you're asking for him to get something he already has, and still works through overguard.

hace 1 hora, Mikhael222 dijo:

2. The Cloud Walker Spell.  The Wukong warframe has always had this, but the rework nerfed it.  Just un-nerf it.  Make it last longer.  Also, a temporary crit chance after exiting the cloud walker would be cool.

Goku's cloud is fine, no need for further buffs, it already opens enemies to finishers which is more than a crit chance buff.

hace 1 hora, Mikhael222 dijo:

3. The Clone Spell.  I know that the Wukong warframe has "Celestial Twin" in the rework, but to be honest, I always thought it was kinda' pointless.  I liked in BMW that Wukong's clone spell summoned at least a half-dozen clones.  I know that Warframe has to think about server/bandwidth cost, so perhaps, as a trade, spawning multiple Wukongs could prevent the use of spawning any specters from the gear wheel.

Shouldn't be a bandwidth problem at all given Nekros is already a think, it's just that the 5 clones from BM:W would trivialise the mission while the player only has to walk around so as the clone doesn't go into resting mode.

hace 1 hora, Mikhael222 dijo:

4. The Invincibility Spell.  Okay I'll admit the original Wukong Defy could have been a bit broken at times.  With enough duration, you could be invincible for several minutes.  That being said, the BMW version of invincibility is pretty awesome.  You basically become an iron statue for a few seconds, and any enemy that tries to hit you gets knocked back.

"A bit broken at time", no, it just made you completely immortal with the right build, that was it.
Also, Defy, have you, have you tried it? It sort of does the same but better.

hace 1 hora, Mikhael222 dijo:

5. Stop Taking Advice From Sweet Baby Inc. (Or Similar) Consultants.  Game Science earned an "overwhelmingly positive" rating on Steam from the real "modern audience." I readily spent $60 on BMW, but haven't spent a dime on platinum in several months because frankly, I'm tired and annoyed from rainbows, bunny ears, deluxe skins with unappealing taste (i.e. Wisp, Baruuk, Styanax), and mopey giants caressing each other because they haven't got a clue, a hobby, a life, or whatever is the problem.

Pretty sure DE doesn't need to take advice from those people when they've been for years building a game that checks all the boxes for those... wastes of resources, while still maintaining something that is for everyone and not a 700mill failure funded by the government.

If you're annoyed by rainbows, don't play on June, if you don't like good looking humanoid figures, problem is you not the game.

You even mention Primed Range getting nerfed, which I guess means Primed Reach, a mod that doesn't exist.
Your disconnection with the game you so much want to "take notes from others", is as high as that of diversity consultants with real life.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Wukong is easy enough. 

If you're having problems with range being nerfed, then aim better. 

[4thBro]

53 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Not quite sure what you are talking about, or what this has to do with either Wukongs.

I'm saying that people don't fact check rumors or whatnot. They just accept it and move on to consume the next big thing.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

The Wukong warframe used to be one of my favorite warframes to play with..... until it was nerfed in that rework back in 2018 or whenever it was. 

Imagine thinking original Wukong was good or even passable

[Yamazuki]

5 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I'm saying that people don't fact check rumors or whatnot. They just accept it and move on to consume the next big thing.

Oh, I see. People don't look at what's really going on because it fits their view. In the case of Black Myth Wukong, it's a Chinese studio and people will take any excuse to hate on anything remotely linked to China, even if it means lying. This forum is an example of that, with the blaming of Tencent for anything they consider wrong with the game, even if these are issues that have been present for many years. DE themselves stated they maintained creative authority, as did other studios bought by Tencent, as well as the fact Tencent buying studios to collect data is something they stated on a report years ago that was publicly available. It's in their best interest to not interfere... and it seems most of their influence gets used into requesting mobile clients, which can be rejected as we've seen with LoL not getting one until years after Tencent just made their own mobile moba.

In the end, it's not as if DE needs to just copy/paste what any successful game does with no consideration of the differences. Some rework ideas are also just better off being new Warframes. Wukong [Warframe] is and has been pretty popular in the East it seems, so it doesn't make much sense to mess with it. In my opinion, it's mostly his Staff that needs improvements; although some issues are just due to the nature of melee weapons that are actually abilities, rather than just the staff specifically.

[CoffeeElemental]

2 часа назад, Mikhael222 сказал:

Okay I'll admit the original Wukong Defy could have been a bit broken at times

All times*

You literally needed only one mod, Rage, to stay alive forever.

2 часа назад, Mikhael222 сказал:

You basically become an iron statue for a few seconds, and any enemy that tries to hit you gets knocked back.

Isn't current Defy practically the same? You become invincible for a few seconds and then hit everyone around with the damage they dealt to you (knocking them back or just outright killing them). But unlike BMW, here you can move during that invincibility.

2 часа назад, Mikhael222 сказал:

The Immobilize Spell.

I like that though. Alas, our monke here has enough abilities already. A short immobilizing effect can be added to his stick maybe (to Iron Staff's heavy attacks or certain combos)?

[AzureTerra]

Oh look its X game has Y thing and therefore Z game should do this aswell again.

Wukong the warframe has a similarity with Wukong the mythic figure and that's about it. Nothing else "wukong" shaped matters.

[TennoPain]

IMO wukong can be exploited a lot thats why i have been avoiding it for years that being said im not saying it should be nerfed but some builds are just for SOLO players 

[SirKnum]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Oh my sweet summer child, you clearly don't play Wukong if you're asking for him to get something he already has, and still works through overguard.

Shush!

[ominumi]

If only we got THIS Wukong in warframe...

 

 

[Legatus_Rhino]

Black Myth Wukong is thriving while Concord and Suicide Squad are shutting down! It's a massive win for gamers!

[MrDugan]

Current Wukong is so fast he irritates squadmates, and crushes EDA with just his Iron Staff.  Enough so that when I got all bad weapons, I didn't get my last research point because I opted to take Wukong over the offered frames because he comes with a reliable weapon.  There is nothing wrong with him, despite the nerfs.

And this game has always had this kind of story.  Even under the old guard.  The company has always been very much "woke" with the message the game sends through quests and setting.  I tend to agree with the message, despite the fact that I personally think the writing has always been meh.  If you don't like the message that's in the game, just do what 90% of the player base seems to do and ignore the lore and kill things mindlessly.

The people whining about DEI and "wokeness" are just as bad as the people they're complaining about, thinking everything should cater to their way of thinking.  If you don't like the message, don't engage with it.

Edited September 4 by MrDugan

[0_The_F00l]

I haven't played bmw , I plan to when it's on sale (yes I don't have issues with the wait) if the reviews are good.

 

I have a personal bias against wukong (in warframe) , I don't like how it encourages specific playstyles .

That being said I am not sure OPs recommendations are actually needed , they may just make an already easy frame easier.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, MrDugan said:

The people whining about DEI and "wokeness" are just as bad as the people they're complaining about, thinking everything should cater to their way of thinking.

Those aren't two groups of people, they're the same group of people. The people complaining about "woke" ARE the people thinking everything should cater to their way of thinking. I don't want to get deep into the weeds on this forum, but the people who think Black Myth Wukong had literally any parallels to the American/British online culture war (or indeed that the online culture war does anything in the real world at all) seriously need to reevaluate their free time. They won't, but they need to

[DigitalCielo]

No Wukong is already strong enough, I don't want to see more SlamKongs in my games, I see them in almost 80% of the games I play now I don't need to see more of them.

[Xycelium]

Ya know, I skimmed over this earlier and wasn't really going to give this my time and attention; however, I genuinely want to ask some of you;

Do some of y'all really see consultation companies as a threat towards game development?

I swear the only people I've seen that complain about these companies, particularly SBI in particular, are either grifters who make everything into a culture war phenomenon to both simultaneously say that politics should stay out of video games while carrying out a political agenda of their own, or genuine bigots who can't stand to see anything involving a minority group in media.