MDRLOz Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) I have already proposed new and interesting mechanics for both the Supra (reverse recoil) and Dera (alternate stat changes from slightly critical chance focused to status chance focused), so at least I can have a say in that. Damage buffs are fine, but what weapons need to actually shine are unique mechanics so that they can hold their ground even if other, more powerful weapons come, provided that they do not have the unique mechanic. Thing is, the critical chance and multiplier is not working yet with the cloud (and I think the radius too, but it would need to be confirmed), so I would leave that out for now. Those do sound like interesting and unique things. I do completely agree that weapons do need a unique "niche" for them to exist in so that a larger pool of them can be viable. I shall have to give the torid ago myself to see if it has not changed. The only issue I have is here: They do not need to be relatively equal or even close to equal. Tiers, not sidegrades. I missed your post yesterday but I am confused by it. How can weapons that are all obtained the same way with almost identical resources have tiers? That boggles the mind. Maybe if some weapons where tier 1 void only and easy to get and some tier 4 void and hard to get. However most weapons have their parts spread around the void to encourage playing of all types of mission. It makes no sense for them to have tiers because you get all of them at the same rate. PLEASE rework the Braton prime to give as a decent all round weapon, it doesnt need to out damage a Soma or a Boltor prime, it doesnt need any nerfs, it just needs more substantial damage and viable critical and status chances. It should be the most rounded of all our weapons. Yup my thoughts exactly. We are not looking to nerf the Soma/Boltor powerhouse. However we just want the Braton Prime to be a decent weapon for the level of effort it takes to get. Edited August 28, 2014 by MDRLOz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydian Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 The only thing consistent about Prime weapons currently is they they all have bling. But Primed Frames? They're always consistently better than their regular counterparts. Well, except for Ember. Poor Ember Prime doesn't even get one more polarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-SLX-J3tAc3 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) come on. give DE some idea as to what a Prime should be. it should to be close & almost similar to non-prime but differences in some. .... Copy-pasted from another thread: "It's somewhat ambiguous exactly how much of an upgrade the term "Prime" actually means because of the wild fluctuations of its implementation. Case in point is the glaive and glaive prime - only 0.20 attack speed difference between them. Then we compare the Boltor and Boltor Prime with the tremendous change there, it seems helter-skelter how things are set up at this time." The real problem with regard to Prime Weapons is that there's no set, consistent and predictable formula that DE is using to scale up regular weapons to Prime status. None. It's all over the **** place. Some Primes are near total upgrades (Boltor Prime really - despite the lack of Slash), some have only a tiny improvement to one or two stats (I'm looking at you Glaive Prime) and some are a combination of upgrades and downgrades (Braton Prime). ...... Edited August 28, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDRLOz Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Though I do agree having a little more consistency on primes would be nice I would settle for some minor tweaks for now. The sheer volume of weapons in the pool now is going to need a complete shake up at some point. Also Soma prime is still waiting in the wings somewhere and we all know that will be a fun time. It would be nice to have a little order before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfaomega04 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 LOL, it's really funny how this is turning into yet ANOTHER "buff braton prime" thread :P No but really, nice job on putting together the list. For that you get my upvote. And wow,all those threads on boltor nerf is comical. I don't really pay attention to the boltor stuff as I do like the weapon, do think it's OP, but I couldn't care less if it gets nerfed or not. Also, it still very much baffles me as to why the acrid got a buff (not much, mind you, but still it got one) which is a weapon the apparently no one really cares about nowdays but the braton wasn't even touched. (and yes, I am aware I've touched a delicate subject for some of the vets with their 6 forma acrids from pre dmg2.0 and all, but from the way it's pretty much ignored it seems it was used not because it was "fun" but simply because it was just downright OP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxbomb Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I see you unburied my old thread and added it to your list, so you're aware that I support a second pass on Prime weapons. I can accept weapons like the Boltor Prime being broken OP (sort of) but what I don't accept is why some Primes get to be game-breakingly powerful while others feel more like sidegrades.to their original counterparts. It's as if DE can't make up their minds as to whether they are or are not meant to be direct upgrades or just offer minor bonuses. All prime weapons should at least be on at least a marginally similar range of power so that which Prime you choose to use is a matter of preference rather than the one that does +200% more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macdermott Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Braton > Prime = 20 > 25.1 Damage. 5 > 10 status. Clip size + 5, reload time + .2 . Not even a polarity Boltor > Prime = 25 > 54.5 Damage. (More than Doubled!) Fire rate incrased, Reload shortened, Critical damage increased. also, more accurate. And two polarities. Methinks someone at DE likes to play with the Boltor the most. Maybe it's nostalgia for the nail gun from Unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Methinks someone at DE likes to play with the Boltor the most. Maybe it's nostalgia for the nail gun from Quake. Fixed that for you, but yeah I wouldn't doubt it :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macdermott Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Fixed that for you, but yeah I wouldn't doubt it :P GOD DAMNIT It's been about 16 or 17 years since I played that game...and I totally whiffed on the name. Military school...I can still remember the little pixely ammo drops with the "NIN" logo on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 GOD DAMNIT It's been about 16 or 17 years since I played that game...and I totally whiffed on the name. Military school...I can still remember the little pixely ammo drops with the "NIN" logo on them. I feel so old now. You know Trent Reznor of NIN (Nine Inch Nails) did most of the audio for Quake right? Anyway - back on topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDRLOz Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 mmm Quake... So good. But yes back on topic. I have added a few more topics to the OP. I even found someone wanting a Boltor buff, Hoorah! However I feel this threads appeared at a bad time as we are swamped with threads about the new weapons. Now I am not going to make this thread lay in to the Latron Wraith minefield especially as Latron prime had a buff quite a while back and is probably on the better side of the prime curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 On the Latron Prime, I agree. Now that's a good example of a Prime weapon done right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloan441 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Done right the second time around. It has seen at least one major revision. What most are asking for is for the BratonP to get the same treatment. The gun isn't particularly easy to get, but it directly compares to weapons you can make as soon as you hit Jupiter, yet it's a prime. It needs some looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Done right the second time around. It has seen at least one major revision. Definitely aware of that, but hey at least they got it right the second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gahrzerkire Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 TL DR: We could use a quick balance pass/re-balance on prime weapons before Scotts plate gets to full from Archwing. There are plenty of threads asking for it in the last four months alone. Especially the Braton prime which has 18 threads requesting a look in/buff! We have had the launcher/sniper/clan tech weapon pass/re-balancing and though I would say it has mixed feedback I would say the changes were a long time coming but have made a good affect on the game. They set a good standard that we can now use to go forward with future launcher and sniper type based weapons and also given some nice tweaks to a few clan tech that need a little more power. What we could also use is a quick once over for some of the prime weapons. Not all of them, but some of these weapons need a few tweaks and a few need big buffs. Now I will list nerf threads but there is really only one weapon in the prime category that people ask to be nerfed. (*cough* Boltor Prime *cough*). Personally I don't mind that being god tier, however I would like the rest of the weapons to be relatively equal in their power seeing as they all take roughly the same effort to obtain. Some need small issues e.g. Sicarus could use a damage buff but the fact that its a triple shot gun and its default clip size (20) means the last shot is two bullets seems an oversight that could be easily fixed. The Akbronco being the second most expensive and resource/time intensive weapon in the game yet being only a small buff over the non-prime counterpart. (I think, on the whole, Dragon Nikana is top dog on overall drain) (Edit: Then again supra and amprex take a lot of Fieldron) However I would like to pull your special attention to Braton prime. I only went back a few months and found 18 separate threads asking for a buff on this weapon. It has the same requirements to be gained and built as the other prime rifles: Boltor, Burston and Latron; however it is in a sub tier where it is probably closer in power to the Karak or the original boltor. Now I doubt anyone wants Braton prime to be the next Boltor Prime. However a small upgrade (some suggested in the threads below) would not go amiss and bring this up to being a real prime weapon. Now I want to point out I only went back about 3-4 months and did this manually and so I probably missed some stuff. Also just because a weapon is not listed does not mean it does not need a look in. This is just a list of threads with titles or main focuses discussing primes (ones that I found basically). I am sure if I dug a little deeper I would find others e.g. thread about Glaive prime not being any different to Glaive, however I would probably need to go further back. Braton Prime Threads (To be honest we need a mega-thread just for Braton prime buff requests...) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/243666-buff-braton-prime/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/289674-weapon-rebalancing-braton-prime-is-underwhelming/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225304-braton-prime-could-use-a-buff/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271390-braton-prime-could-really-use-a-buff/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/272391-buff-braton-prime/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/261246-braton-prime-buff-on-the-horizon/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/258703-braton-prime-buff/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/191610-buff-braton-prime/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/296755-please-buff-the-braton-prime-its-inadequate-and-bratons-are-fun/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297405-buff-braton-prime/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/295186-braton-prime/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/208202-u13-is-about-melee-but-dont-forget-the-other-weapons/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192909-my-problems-with-the-boltor-prime/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/239485-buff-braton-prime-reload-speed/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/227000-the-braton-prime-ideology/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235904-braton-prime-needs-a-buff/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235258-so-why-is-the-braton-prime-so-bad-still/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/229451-braton-prime-update-13/ General Prime weapons Rebalancing request / suggestion threads https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/275471-please-make-all-prime-weapons-equal/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/244344-prime-weapons-some-consistency-would-be-nice/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/247216-rebalance-primes/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293971-the-rebalancing-of-prime-weapons-a-thread-with-numbers/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/248069-prime-weapons-and-polarities/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/229008-why-are-there-so-many-bad-prime-weapons/ Sicarus Prime Threads https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286528-sicarus-prime-just-1-more-bullet-de-how-hard-can-it-be/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/256949-sicarus-prime/ Akbronco Prime Threads (Or Akbrongo as one guy called it...best name ever!) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/250166-akbronco-prime-should-be-buffed/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/258562-akbronco-prime-stats/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/260478-akbrongo-prime-recoil/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/242695-hardest-prime-weapon-to-make-needs-a-buff/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/299681-they-said-akbronco-prime-was-useless/ - Apparently new mods helped? Lex Prime Threads (Aklex prime would be a buff... ofc Soon™) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/294482-lex-prime-change/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/257613-lex-prime-needs-a-buff/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/290564-is-the-aklex-prime-coming-soon/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/217881-me-want-aklex-prime-3/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/237018-aklex-prime/ Fang Prime Threads https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/255604-fang-primes/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/239531-fang-prime/ Reaper Prime Thread https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/241876-buff-the-reaper-prime/ Orthos Prime Thread https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/299984-orthis-prime-has-no-polarity-slot/ Skana Prime Thread (Hey, why not its a prime?) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/259794-skana-prime-buff/ Boltor Prime Threads (8 Nerf, 1 Buff) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/243458-its-time-to-nerf-boltor-prime/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192909-my-problems-with-the-boltor-prime/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/243261-i-think-its-time-boltor-prime-stops-rendering-130-weapons-obsolete/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/253908-soma-and-boltor-prime-need-a-nerf/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293976-boltor-prime-issue-or-aaaaah-powercreep-is-wiping-our-ranks-save-you-lives/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/276410-how-is-the-boltor-prime-so-accurate/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/231316-boltor-prime-has-no-drawbacks-this-is-a-problem/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192406-boltor-prime-is-grossly-overpowered/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/302031-the-boltor-prime/ - I FOUND A BUFF THREAD! WE NEED THE BRATON TO GET CRAZY STATUS AND ALSO SO HELLA GOOD DAMAGE MABYE BUFF IT TO AROUND 40 DAMAGE? or 35? WITH LIKE 30% STATUS? I WOULD LOVE IT THEN :DDDDDd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traybong111 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 My kudos to OP for finding all those threads! BUFF BRATON PRIME and all Bratons, really :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDRLOz Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) 19 Braton prime buff threads. Braton brothers unite! Braton, low tier. Latron, high tier, for example. They might be almost identical in resources, that does not mean they should be almost identical in terms of damage, viability, etc. So I have two weapons which are relatively equal in resource requirements (drop location, Rarity, Materials, credit cost and time) however one of them gets to be a "high" tier weapon and the other a "low" tier weapon. For what reason does that low tier weapon exist? By your logic this weapon is not worth the effort to get and is just pure mastery fodder. Primes should never be master fodder. Edited September 2, 2014 by MDRLOz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloan441 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) They're primes, they SHOULD have similar performance. Not necessary do the same thing, but should work at a similar level. They do need a similar level of effort to obtain. You're not getting BratonP parts from doing Mars after all--it's T3. T-friggin'-3. There's really no excuse for the BratonP not getting a buff, especially when the LatronP did receive one--a substantial one. The only explanation is indifference on DE's part, sad to say. The most damning aspect of the whole thing is a comparable gun--the Karak--is easily obtainable from the Marketplace and with its materials on the inner planets and Jupiter. That compared to have to do T3 content to make a weapon with almost exactly the same performance. Frankly, that's unacceptable. The Braton Prime does need a buff. No two ways about it. Edited September 2, 2014 by Sloan441 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 This is uper awesome. Braton Prime, Reaper Prime, Lex Prime, AKBronco Prime all need buffing. Supporting your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valafor Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) I am not sure if I should be proud or embarrassed that three of those Braton Prime buff topics are made by me.... Edited September 3, 2014 by Valafor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gahrzerkire Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Posting so this gets back to the top of the forum... but what if we all made posts asking for a braton prime buff... and commented on those posts. and didnt stop till we get one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDRLOz Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Posting so this gets back to the top of the forum... but what if we all made posts asking for a braton prime buff... and commented on those posts. and didnt stop till we get one? No need to go that far. If you want to make sure that it gets noticed by DE make sure you mention it in the next Dev stream thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/303682-coming-soon-devstream-36/ With so many threads and so many people asking for it I think at least Braton prime will get a look in. Hopefully we will get some love to the others as well. As always though stay active on the forums and encourage positive discussion and we will get there in the end. I mean only last month the spectra got a buff, the spectra! So primes can not be far away now. I am not sure if I should be proud or embarrassed that three of those Braton Prime buff topics are made by me.... The better question is, if I looked further back on the forum would l find some more made by you? Edited September 4, 2014 by MDRLOz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valafor Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 The better question is, if I looked further back on the forum would l find some more made by you? Nah, I only made three. I also posted a question on whither or not the Braton Prime will get a buff in the Devstream topic, but I doubt they will choose or look at the question. After that, I might make my 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDRLOz Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) You say that but your post in that thread is at +15 +19 up votes, that is not a small amount. Edited September 4, 2014 by MDRLOz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudo-Nym Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Yes to Braton Prime being stronger. If not stronger by much, give it some polarities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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