Dev Workshop Part 2: ...& more Warframe Changes.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

On another note, Excal might suffer a bit now since he has to get close and he's not that good at getting shot at, a slight HP increase or armor increase would help him better cope with the lack of ranged damage now. Everything else seems alright (besides that spin part).

 

Edit:  Oh yeah, Sleight of Hand issue isn't just range, but how it detonates drops (which sometimes penalizes the party as a whole for no return) for nothing if you try to create traps, and you pretty much need a mod for it to be any useful and doesn't make you and your party lose drops.

[(XBOX)BURRITO DEVIL]

Just now, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Bladestorm just needs the Exalted Blade treatment.

Nothing more. Don't like pressing 4 and sitting back anyway, Ash needs to have a more active/lucrative Ultimate, imo.

yes,exalted daggers,this needs to be done

[Fifield]

49 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Prism: Prism’s Blind effect is now affected by the enemy's Line-of-Sight (LoS) to the Prism. Prism’s damage has been buffed slightly to compensate for this change. We found that Prism was able to lock down maps with little recourse, and we feel that these changes will make it a more targeted ability while also increasing its tactical usage.

OMG.  I never thought I'd see the day when DE finally nerf a gamebreaking hero.

This isn't nearly far enough of course.  Blind can be respammed.  Nova can make sure no enemies can threaten.  Banshee's ult is almost as broken as Mirage's.

49 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Exalted Blade’s damage will now diminish according to distance traveled and enemies punctured, and Exalted Blade’s built-in Radial Blind on spin will now cost ½ the Energy of a regular Radial Blind. Although Exalted Blade is a lot of fun, we feel that it completely overshadows all of Excalibur’s other abilities at little cost.

This isn't enough either but a good direction nonetheless.  The damage needs to be toned down and please stop Life Strike working on it too.

49 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Trinity's Blessing & Ash's Bladestorm are both under review as well.

Good.  The easiest change is to remove the damage reduction from Blessing and give it to Oberon, after all he's the paladin character.

The self-damage thing also needs to be removed.  Perhaps exclude Trinity from the damage reduction mechanism unless she's soloing?

You also need to be looking at:
EV
Snowglobe
Invisibility
Molecular Prime.
Bastille
Vortex

... roughly in order of priority.

This is the best fix for EV (actually energy provision in general):

It stops excessive ability usage without stopping frames from chaining abilities when they need to, stopping squads bringing 2 Trinitys to overcome EV limitations etc.

It also has the benefit of not upsetting too much those attached to Trinity.

Also, do DE believe that all frames should be viable eg have a role in high level content, nuking or farming?  If so, publicly state your intent and give the community a few weeks to get used to all frames being worth playing.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Fifield

[Bashuul]

While you guys are touching up powers, I just have two things, can you guys touch up Saryn and fix Chroma's Elemental Ward not effecting non-tenno allies?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Bashuul

[CanisLaticanis]

The question on Hysteria I have is how fast and how high the cost will ramp up.

Also, can we PLEASE have some sort of invulnerability on casting? It feels silly that I have to take cover to cast Hysteria - if I set it off in a mass of enemies, like it feels like it should be used, I tend to get nuked nearly instantly at higher levels.

Edited May 27, 2016 by CanisLaticanis
Wording

[Manly_McManface]

As much as I love the power of exalted blade and hysteria, I'm okay with these changes. Now the swordsman is more of a swordsman, the berserker isn't completely unkillable and mirages blind now functions like all other blinds. 

I think you did a great job of balancing these while avoiding nerfing them into the ground. *Standing applause*

 

Excalibur will still be my favorite :D

[xXDeadsinxX]

Can't wait to see what happens to the frames, all frames need to be balanced. So good your changing some of them :)

[Hixlysss]

Why just Trinity's blessing though? Why not look at her well of life power, that surely needs some work, blessing is in a decent state, could use some mild tweaks but really WoL kinda...sucks.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

15 hours ago, thalx said:

Good, great changes, it was time there was a little bit of balance to this clearly overpowered frames.

Now, we can't wait to see how you guys are gonna tackle the enemy armor scaling problem.

In one phrase.

Make it so Health and Armor don't both scale up with enemy level, just Health. Because in all actuality, with the amount of Armor one would need to tank a full party of Tenno's shots, you wouldn't be able to move.

It is this huge problem of exponentially increasing EHP values caused by Health and Armor scaling together that makes enemies so hard to deal with later game... On top of the fact that a mere glance in the Tenno's direction will down you, or kill you if soloing.

Every 300 points of Armor gives every point of health 2x more effectiveness. So... for a Heavy Unit with 5000 Armor and 10,000 Health... (not accurate health values btw.) Keep in mind this is about a level 50-60 Heavy Unit.

It gives the Heavy Unit a whopping: 176,667 (rounded) Effective Health Points. That pool just gets higher and higher with level. And past a certain level (100-120). Corrosive Projection is a necessity.

In my eyes, making armor a flat value (A higher flat value to compensate for no scaling) while leaving health unchanged (and perhaps upping the multiplier slightly), would solve the bullet-sponge problem side of things. There is still the issue of enemies one-shotting everything in game, no matter your armor value or buff.

Edited May 27, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Omni_Omega]

Some steps in the right direction! I look forward to further changes, if this keeps up

[-InV-igo95862]

Changes to abilities that are used against high level content without any changes to enemies? Less reasons to do sorites or raids.

Take today's Excavation sortie. Eximus stronghold against level 100 enemies. They deal enough damage to one shot excavators. Without any map wide control abilities the only option to complete that mission is Snowglobe spam. That's next? Snowglobe nerf? Doing sorites only on the lucky days?

[Zhoyzu]

Awesome changes tbh. reigns them back into the realm of reality and balance

[ComfyOlivia]

Can deal with the mirage change. That was a bit silly.

Maybe someone can explain the Valkyr change to me a bit more. Honestly seems like a nerf to me. We should be balancing these frames that do crazy things. Not nerfing them.

The Excal lowered damage over range is reasonable all things considered. The Radial Blind energy cost seems excessive to me. Spin melee is like muscle memory. It does more damage in regular melee game play. Feels like punishment now.

24 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Also under review:

Trinity's Blessing

Unless this is a overhaul of the ability, please don't touch Trinity. Seen you guys screw Trinity 8 ways to Sunday with "intuitive changes to make the abilities more engaging". 

[-Kryptyk-]

24 minutes ago, DJNeonNight said:

I'm worried about this D:

same.  trinity is in a really good place right now...

[Fari]

" Exalted Blade’s built-in Radial Blind on spin will now cost ½ the Energy of a regular Radial Blind. " Please don't. It's already so much worse than an actual blind, this just makes ever using slide attack an absolute nope. Or alternatively at least give it scaling if it's gonna be like that.

Either way though I'd go more on the side of it having any cost making it worthless.

 

Otherwise sounds okay I guess, I think the rest of Trinity's kit needs a look more than blessing though- notably the fact that EVERYTHING else is ground casts only, Trinity feels horrible to play in parkour 2.0 because all other frames keep off the ground while she's expected to just stand still getting shot at. Even Nekros isn't as bad off as Trinity.

Really hope for that whole Ash no longer gets stuck in cinematic bladestorm I'd heard talked about too. If he just sent out the clones and they kill stuff while he operates autonomously it'd be nice. Up to DE to cap him on clones going out at the same time or not. 

[_enon]

2 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

In one phrase.

Make it so Health and Armor don't both scale up with enemy level, just Health.

My man! Just like our frames! Great idea.

[Xekrin]

Trinity's Blessing & Ash's Bladestorm are both under review as well

Don't forget about Energy Vampire and Well of Life(completely pointless skill with bless around), many reasons why bless is OP but her kit needs an overall balance, not just Bless.

[Epicagemo]

45 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Sleight of Hand: We have increased the damage and detonation range of all objects that can be booby trapped.

Should be changed to one shot any enemy walking near the trap because of it's poor range in usages-like volt's overload where lights are the traps.

[MINDL3SSVIOLNC3]

23 minutes ago, Valsako said:

Nerf Trin's blessing and I'll quit the game after playing well over 1,000 hours since 2013. That simple.

Mirage is fine, I get it, the blind is OP. Valkyr is also fine, I get it, staying in Hysteria forever with no reason to ever leave it is kind of stupid. I feel Excal's mini radial blind nerf is kinda silly since it was never that effective to begin with and it seems a little weird to be charged energy for what's possible to just accidentally engage, but whatever.

But do not nerf Trin's blessing. If you do that, what's the point of even using Trin outside of EV? If you make her healing useless, it'll be just another Well of Life - another 100% useless ability. At that rate you may as well go EV Trin so you can just heal everybody's shields, because blessing's current design is the only thing that makes it a better option for health support. These are the only ways you could limit it:

Range - Making the range no longer be infinite would just render the whole ability pointless since this is a game where everybody flies everywhere, it's painful enough to give people energy without them missing it completely unless you use an EV build.

Damage reduction - Removing or reducing the damage reduction given from HP regenerated would just make EV far more favorable. Costs virtually nothing, and rapidly buffs + restores shields. Why spam a 4 to heal everyone for no other benefit when you can do that?

Healing - Reducing the amount the ability heals would defeat the purpose of even having it as a 4th. What good is a 4th that does absolutely nothing to enemies if it doesn't even properly heal you and your allies?

These are the only three ways you could possibly nerf Blessing, and all three of them are bad ideas. How else would you nerf it? Because I know you don't want to buff it. Just stop right there and don't even think about it. Trin's in a good place right now as she is aside from her useless first ability, since she has zero offense abilities, and she's entirely built toward tanking while offering support. Why nerf the one and only thing she's made for? Do you WANT her to be useless? Do you WANT Trin to join the ranks of Hydroid and Mesa? Do you WANT her to be a one-trick pony with EV? No? Then leave her as she is. Thanks.

Im pretty much in line with this as a few other posters are as well. And in the case of of the full damage reduction of 99% it is still time limited, requires that trinity takes an extreme risk (reducing life to 1) and requires a high casting cost (i think? in my build it does anyways).

So I also call out not to touch trinity...she has been through enough already. And if that isnt enough for you then think back to the Viver days when you set forth the nerf hammer upon trinity and mag and remember how well that went over.

Thanks for the great game! I know you will make the right choice!

Edited May 27, 2016 by MINDL3SSVIOLNC3

[TheRandomHunter]

Enemy scaling needs fixed. It needs to happen sooner rather than later, especially if you're nerfing some of the only means of survival. Either that, or we need better health and shield scaling, because getting one-shotted late into missions no matter how much time and effort we put into our frames is the problem, not the abilities we use to avoid that.

Prism is justified, as is cutting back on Excal's ability to spam, but all Valkyr HAS is Hysteria. Ripline is a gimmick and hardly useful, Warcry is mostly used to augment Hysteria because melee is worthless late into missions when you can't be dodging and going fast to avoid attacks while charging straight at things. Also Bombards, bombards should just be removed from the game. Nullifiers are fine, they can be dealt with, Bombards shouldn't even exist. Paralysis is utterly worthless and straight up needs replaced. All that's left is Hysteria, and you want to make it so you can't stay in it for any reasonable amount of time. At very least give her other bonuses and replace Paralysis before you kill the only thing she has.

[beargryllsownurine]

I don't like the Exalted Blade blade wave nerfs. Damage degradation on range is one thing, but degradation based on how many enemies it punches through?

[Cray]

The trouble with EB's blind is that it's way too easy to do accidentally.

At least casting has a dedicated key. Far too often, I've tried doing a spin attack, only to remember that it works differently for Excal while EB is active.

Edited May 27, 2016 by DeltaPhantom

[shyguyk]

I'd call blessing as is now fine if trinity has no way to self damage.

Sounds like a passive idea...

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

So basically blind mirage is dead then, okay I can accept that. I usually use Synoid Mirage anyway and just have fun nuking things anyway so it wont hurt me. That said I think I'll have to delete my Valk and Excal loadouts now because they will be less fun. I'm surely not alone on this but hopefully all the upcoming changes don't take away all the fun of the game. Regardless it's your game but don't take away every thing people love like Slowva and our lord and savior Inaros please, they are fine as is. Also what about enemy scaling?

[ranks21]

the prism blind to los will still lock down the entire area where the action is taking place just burst it high in the air boom raid lock down >> trinity is already dissected 100x over and is quite fixed. Valkyr needed  that full out nerf from day one she's the noobiest and cheesiest frame in the game hands down she owns that title ( please no more god mode) all my yes.

not too sure on exalted blade but it does need tweaking and no on the energy cost on the mini blind its still one ability why punish players with energy cost for 2.