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[DE]Taylor

Void 2.0 Feedback [Megathread]

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Reposting as I didn't know this megathread was here:

Not sure why it was decided it had to be one way or the other considering there are large groups of players on both sides and having more options at least in this case would be better.

Both keys and relics can exist at the same time. Only draw back is that fissures would not erupt/spawn on the Void tileset. Not that it currently makes sense for them to do so anyway. With this everyone can be happy. The people who want to focus down specific parts could run their relics and gather their traces and close the void fissures. Then those of us who miss the way it used to be could run for random parts to sell inside the void with our keys.

Void Keys would even be changed in function so that all squad members need a copy of the same key to enter the Void (similar to Relics) if that is what's needed to keep a concept like this balanced between the 2.

Something needs to be done for sure. The old Void survivals were both addictively fun and rewarding  In the state the void is in now the fissures are not fun and running endless void is not rewarding. I feel that was a bad separation to make.

 

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Fissures are definitely not fun, especially with all of the problems they currently have. They're frustrating as hell. Doubly so for solo players. Quadruply so for solo players who don't have a heavily armored warframe.

There are 6 very important things that can be done to make fissures at least tolerable...

  1. Stop fissure enemies from running away. At the very least limit the distance they'll stray from the fissure. It's not uncommon for them to run to completely different rooms and just sit there doing nothing. This stops the fissure from spawning replacement enemies, and causes a lot of unnecessary failures.
  2. Increase either the drop rate of chicken nuggets (reactant), or increase the amount of time feeding them to the fissure adds. Considering you waste half the time they give you just picking them up, this should really be increased either way.
  3. Stop allowing assassins to spawn during fissure missions. I can't count the number of times The Stalker has decided to show up in the middle of trying to close a fissure and just ruin everything. He never seems to show up when I want him to, but I swear one out of every 3 or 4 fissures I attempt, there he is.
  4. Don't make failing to close the fissure automatically fail your mission. Even if you lose all your traces with the failure of closing a fissure, you should still be allowed to complete the mission and keep all the credits and other materials you've picked up along the way.
  5. Limit enemy spawn points to line-of-sight with the fissure. I've seen enemies spawn stuck inside of walls, spawn in hidden areas, behind walls, under floors, you name it.
  6. When an enemy is killed and yields reactant, make it spawn statically on the ground where that enemy was killed. When it pops up into the air, it often gets stuck in places where it can't be picked up, or rolling slowly down an incline making it impossible to pick up until it finally reaches the bottom.

This still doesn't save fissures from being repetitive and quickly becoming dull, but if you insist on keeping the system's core mechanics the way they are, it should at least not be a major annoyance.

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The drop rate of the rarest of the possible rewards of each relic is too low to be enjoyable. I realize random is random, but I'm talking about averages here and I am not asking for "easy" or guaranteed rares. But for people who are running in public groups, which is what most players do (and I see no reason why they should be penalized), means you will be rolling for something that has about a 2% drop chance in order to finish pretty much any prime build since most things need at least one rare part, and it's unlikely to be boosted by other players in the group using the same relic type.

And having to run an estimated 50 missions, using relics that take 10 to 20 times 50 minutes to obtain is simply too little reward vs time spent.

Even boosting every 5th relic to radiant quality still only raises the average drop chance to 3.6%, resulting in more than 27 expected runs for a single rare item.

I've probably played about 20+ hours since Specters of the Rail launched, and I have not been able to start building a single prime item / get a rare part that I needed in that time. That's a lot of void fissures...

IMO rare odds should be more like:
Intact 5%
Exceptional: 10%
Flawless: 15%
Radiant: 25%

That would also fix the problem of using 100 essences to upgrade a relic being less efficient than using 50 on a per essence basis.

Edit: Just wanted to add to this, that I think the *mechanic* of void fissures is great. I like that you've made it so we get to see more tilesets this way during "endgame" farming than just orokin towers, and I think making the void a "planet" on the star chart is neat.

That being said, if you could add some randomness to the way the fissure needs to be dealt with, that would be nice. As it stands, it gets repetitive real fast and I can feel the fatigue setting in (the rare drop chance doesn't help). Also maybe make sure that Lith/Meso fissure alerts don't spawn on lvl 40-45 maps? I've seen a Lith alert on Mot in the void. That's something like a level 10 key in a level 40+ map.

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So you mean to tell me, unlike in the void, we go to a random mission with one thing added that lasts about 2 mins:30 secs, do that extra one thing on any of the mission and that is the new way we get prime parts? Just beat up a horde like we always do and close a portal? 

 

OK.

OK_thumb.png

 

]\'[

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2 hours ago, MokutoBunshi said:

So you mean to tell me, unlike in the void, we go to a random mission with one thing added that lasts about 2 mins:30 secs, do that extra one thing on any of the mission and that is the new way we get prime parts? Just beat up a horde like we always do and close a portal? 

 

OK.

OK_thumb.png

 

]\'[

Since we're grossly oversimplifying things, the old void was just "we go to a random mission" without the one added thing that's actually far more tedious, buggy, unbalanced, and annoying than you describe here.

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It's quite frustrating when you solo a fissure mission and the things just will not drop, causing you to fail the mission when the time limit expires.

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I've spent some time with the new system, and so far the best i can come with as a reaction to it is a half-hearted 'okay'.

I enjoyed the old system of someone using a key, and then the squad running the mission together. I'll also admit I had some seriously pre-conceived notions about how the new system would function based on all the teases you guys made prior to the dev workshop post being made.

To me, a disappointment the new system brings with it, and the reason I give it the half-hearted 'okay', is that prior to the change, people had choices on how they could use their keys to obtain parts. They could choose to play the key solo, or host it for friends and/or strangers and everyone would benefit, or they could choose to organize a keyshare. Now it's essentially 'keyshare or bust' while many of the issues of keyshares are still present. You now have to bring a relic with you if you want anything at all.

My suggestion to fix this would be that someone who doesn't bring a relic with them can still earn a prime part from among those generated by the relics brought by other members of the squad, but they it is randomly chosen for them. For example: a 4-man squad seals a rift, but only 2 of them brought relics. At the end of the mission, the relics generate a Trinity prime Chassis and a Nyx Prime Blueprint. The two players who brought and used relics would be able to freely choose between those two rewards. While the two who didn't would be randomly assigned either of those rewards.

Another reason this system disappoints me compared to the old one is that the grind in general doesn't feel like it's been reduced by much, if at all. Instead of spending countless missions grinding for the one part you want, you now need to spend countless missions grinding for the one relic you need in order to get the one part you want, and unless luck is on your side, odds are you'll need a good handful of that particular relic.

So in the end, this system doesn't feel like much of an improvement to me. It feels like all that was accomplished was to take the issues people had with the old system, and simply move them from one place to another.

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Ok, it seems the drop rate for reactants has been improved, I haven't failed a lith fissure since the last hotfix, and didn't even get into a danger zone (as MR 21, that's as it should be) I felt like success or failure was back in my hands. 

Thank you DE, all is forgiven, but the system still needs perfecting.

I honestly don't mind it, I just kinda feel like it's a single excavator, that makes you fail the mission if it looses power. So overall kinda meh.

It feels like something that needs to be it's own mission type, for example maybe sealing up a couple fissures like the ones we see here, each offering a shot at a prime part, and then a large one that has some kind of boss critter coming through. Which could make for a great source for void traces.

.....and increase the cap on void traces. DEFINITELY.

So, real feelings on this; it doesn't SUCK, but I'm not impressed. I feel like there's potential, it's just not there, YET.

...and I'm over the keys. I was mostly farming other crap when I got them, anyway.

P.S. Archwing now needs pitch, yaw, and rotational controls, unless I'm seriously missing something. If I am, please, do inform. Otherwise, I dig the feel of it, but we need to be up against an entire Grineer warship, like a baylor formorian, only WE'RE on the offensive, and instead of being like at some Corpus docking bay, we should be attacking a Corpus trade FLEET, or something. Instead of making us feel like we're moving in space, but confined to a small area, make the mission force you to keep pace with a shipping fleet, or a capitol ship, really emphasize the feeling of moving through space at inconceivable speeds. Sorry, I digress.

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Just now, VelarozDosun said:

A thought I just went through when it comes to the lack of storage for Void Traces:

Keep the base 100 storage, and allot 10 extra storage per Mastery Rank a player has. From there, extra ways to expand the potential storage for the void traces--one repeatable to a cap, the other a once-off doubling.

The repeatable can be a rare additional drop whenever a Void Fissure closes, at a 5-10% drop chance, and would allot 20-25 extra storage of Void Traces--with a cap of +100. [So 4 or 5 of these] The cost to build would be hefty, say 100 Void Traces, some measure of argon, orokin cells, and gallium, and say 50,000-100,000 credits.

The once-off upgrade would be a Tenno or Orokin Lab research, which requires someone in the clan get the once-off to unlock for the clan, and requires one of these per clan tier for the research, in addition to a base of 25 traces, cost scaled at the normal resource rate. From there, it would require 4-5 of the Void Trace Containment Cylinders [however many were initially needed], more argon, 200 Void Traces [which, at this point, would be your minimum storage allotment due to base + the repeatables maxed], and 100,000-250,000 credits. To top it all off, requires you have the repeatable upgrade maxed. And this will, once applied, double your storage for Void Traces.

So, this will boost players from 100+10/MR+[20 or 25]/upgrade segment, to 200+20/MR+[40 or 50]/upgrade segment.

Hear me out on this. I'd imagine that this resource is somewhat hard to handle, and thus I can see why there would be a limit to how much can be stored. However, 100 flat is extremely limiting towards players of all stages. And while this may seem to explode the storage volume, it is heavily gated in cost, primarily by the resource it is meant to increase the storage capacity thereof. Additionally, players would be able to increase their capacity by just going up in MR [under the assumption that higher MR = better capability of handling the substance].

Lastly, if these segments are added, can they also make a visual change to the model of the segment/area? Like adding tubes/canisters coming off of it for the initial expansions, with the last thing being the white void-plant growths connecting to it and leading back into the Focus chamber?

Quoting my little suggestion thread over here, in hopes that it gets a few glances. But on top of that, to emphasize my thoughts on "The Void Trace storage capacity feels extremely limiting".

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1 hour ago, Dragonah said:

I've spent some time with the new system, and so far the best i can come with as a reaction to it is a half-hearted 'okay'.

I enjoyed the old system of someone using a key, and then the squad running the mission together. I'll also admit I had some seriously pre-conceived notions about how the new system would function based on all the teases you guys made prior to the dev workshop post being made.

To me, a disappointment the new system brings with it, and the reason I give it the half-hearted 'okay', is that prior to the change, people had choices on how they could use their keys to obtain parts. They could choose to play the key solo, or host it for friends and/or strangers and everyone would benefit, or they could choose to organize a keyshare. Now it's essentially 'keyshare or bust' while many of the issues of keyshares are still present. You now have to bring a relic with you if you want anything at all.

My suggestion to fix this would be that someone who doesn't bring a relic with them can still earn a prime part from among those generated by the relics brought by other members of the squad, but they it is randomly chosen for them. For example: a 4-man squad seals a rift, but only 2 of them brought relics. At the end of the mission, the relics generate a Trinity prime Chassis and a Nyx Prime Blueprint. The two players who brought and used relics would be able to freely choose between those two rewards. While the two who didn't would be randomly assigned either of those rewards.

Another reason this system disappoints me compared to the old one is that the grind in general doesn't feel like it's been reduced by much, if at all. Instead of spending countless missions grinding for the one part you want, you now need to spend countless missions grinding for the one relic you need in order to get the one part you want, and unless luck is on your side, odds are you'll need a good handful of that particular relic.

So in the end, this system doesn't feel like much of an improvement to me. It feels like all that was accomplished was to take the issues people had with the old system, and simply move them from one place to another.

I agree with every word of this. Get this man or woman a pineapple!

...and if you don't like pineapple...um...can I eat it? :D

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Pros:

  • Not sitting in the same mission for 20/40/further minutes or waves is a absolute god send and the new system alone is amazing for it.
  • It feels like I'm making actual progress instead of bashing my head against the same wall with no improvement mission after mission after mission.
  • Its chaotic and intense yet fun.

Suggested improvements:

  • More then one fissure objective like for example having to just defend the fissure or having to search across the whole map for reactants and bring them to the fissure; but it seems at least like this is already planned this given "void fissures are conduits for many dangerous possibilities". I'd suggest this sooner rather then later otherwise this system will get stale rather fast.
  • Void traces need higher drop rates and a slightly higher cap; just something like 10 more so we don't overshoot what we can actually use. Void traces are also kinda sucky to try and get solo, but I don't really think thats as much of a problem as it could be.
  • Higher quality relics should have much higher drop rates then they have now, its better then nothing but an improvement would be appreciated.

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1 hour ago, Azathoth0013 said:

Ok, it seems the drop rate for reactants has been improved, I haven't failed a lith fissure since the last hotfix, and didn't even get into a danger zone (as MR 21, that's as it should be) I felt like success or failure was back in my hands. 

-snip-

 

It would appear our mileage is proving to be a vastly different experience.  All Tower 4 and 3 fissures I have attempted solo have been failures due to too few reactants dropping from enemies or too few enemies spawning at all.  So to me, it feels like my success depends on a toss of the dice more than something I can do anything about.  It's been an incredibly frustrating last few hours to say the least.

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6 hours ago, PigeonFish said:

Fissures are definitely not fun, especially with all of the problems they currently have. They're frustrating as hell. Doubly so for solo players. Quadruply so for solo players who don't have a heavily armored warframe.

There are 6 very important things that can be done to make fissures at least tolerable...

  1. Stop fissure enemies from running away. At the very least limit the distance they'll stray from the fissure. It's not uncommon for them to run to completely different rooms and just sit there doing nothing. This stops the fissure from spawning replacement enemies, and causes a lot of unnecessary failures.
  2. Increase either the drop rate of chicken nuggets (reactant), or increase the amount of time feeding them to the fissure adds. Considering you waste half the time they give you just picking them up, this should really be increased either way.
  3. Stop allowing assassins to spawn during fissure missions. I can't count the number of times The Stalker has decided to show up in the middle of trying to close a fissure and just ruin everything. He never seems to show up when I want him to, but I swear one out of every 3 or 4 fissures I attempt, there he is.
  4. Don't make failing to close the fissure automatically fail your mission. Even if you lose all your traces with the failure of closing a fissure, you should still be allowed to complete the mission and keep all the credits and other materials you've picked up along the way.
  5. Limit enemy spawn points to line-of-sight with the fissure. I've seen enemies spawn stuck inside of walls, spawn in hidden areas, behind walls, under floors, you name it.
  6. When an enemy is killed and yields reactant, make it spawn statically on the ground where that enemy was killed. When it pops up into the air, it often gets stuck in places where it can't be picked up, or rolling slowly down an incline making it impossible to pick up until it finally reaches the bottom.

This still doesn't save fissures from being repetitive and quickly becoming dull, but if you insist on keeping the system's core mechanics the way they are, it should at least not be a major annoyance.


The fissures obviously have spawn points as well, they are always in set spots like barrels.

Unfortunately DE have decided the best places for these spots are on walkways over pits, snuggled next to other complex terrain etc etc.They could fix most of the problems by shifting the fissures to flat open ground. Yes this would be even more boring (good lord) but it would at least solve the lost reactant/bugged mobs.

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There's a particular situation I've seen happen more than once, and I'd like to address it real quick:

Say you and another person roll the same item. Both of you want this item. Rather than sticking with your own, the courteous thing to do would be to pick theirs, since it's all the same to you anyway, but at least they get an extra trace. If they did the same, you would get an extra trace too. Great, right? Well too bad, they won't.

The way I see it, if two or more people roll the same item, and any of these items are picked, they should all receive traces as if their own item was picked.

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So, I mean... it's nice that you're able to get what you're after with much, much less grinding and frustration than before. And I like the idea of sealing Void tears. But the actual execution is just... really, really uninspired. Click the thing, beat up dudes for a while, pick up drops and put them in the hole. The challenge level is quite low, even at the higher tiers, and the immersion is very low. I like the direction Void 2.0 is going, but I really hope that this is Void 2.0 1.0.

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Please make it more apparent, or different I should say, the button where you choose not to bring a relic, its position is a standard one for going through menus and I believe it has evoked on others besides myself to press it without thinking (kinda like switching "Ok" and "Cancel" buttons on prompts makes you choose poorly). I know, I should read what I pressed but on more than one occasion I found myself almost pressing "Play without relic" and once I even did!

Also I believe I've had squadmates do the same, since one time at least, one wasn't able to select a reward or have one show up on their relic, which I believe was caused by that very same issue.

 

Coloring might be a solution, either on the button itself or maybe a "warning" sign with a red triangle with an exclamation mark inside, maybe 2, one on each side of the warning.

 

P.S. Please tell me I wasn't the only one who had this happen...

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I actually like the idea behind void fissures, but I agree that the spawn rate of reactant is too low.  I mainly solo, and I've lost failed most of my missions simply due to reactant just not dropping.  Either that or the time bonus for reactant be buffed considerably, it's currently only an extra 10 seconds per reactant.  Maybe 15 or 20 seconds would be better.

Also, can we not spawn bursas on Corpus maps when you activate the fissure, at least for solo players?  I can see them as an extra challenge for 3 and 4 Tenno teams, but for solos they are an absolute pain to deal and just an extra headache with all the chaos going on around you.  Combined with the mine ospreys dropping stuff, the sapping ospreys thing going on and lasers going left and right they and their effects get lost in the light show.  

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Void trace cap need to be increased. Their is no reason why it should be capped to only 100. Having 98 traces, collecting 40, and losing 38 is such a waste.

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New system is terrible. 

Fissure farming is repetitive and boring. You have to bring a hydroid or a nekros to get decent amount of traces each run. Otherwise there is a looong grinding process. I was able to get up 80 traces until I got bored of out of my mind. Not sure how I can do 2 more to get to 100. 

 

I have a better system in mind. If you want to open a fissure, you have to bring a relic with you. Relic refinement only effects the level of the enemies that get through the portal, so it is optional as it only adds a challenge. Higher level enemies drop rare materials, and the longer you keep the relic open, the drop chance of the rare materials(neural sensors etc) increase. Refining keys should be easier, done with less traces and farming traces should also be easier. Loot table can stay the same. 

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On 7/8/2016 at 9:16 PM, Gamekrazd said:

Okay, did a little playtesting and digging, and I've found a pair of gaping flaws in this new system.

You Can't Run These Missions with Friends.

Lemme paint you a scene: Me and my friend here were about to tear into these Lith Relics to try and work on getting a Lith Void Fissure done. We notice a red flag right away: She can't select her own Relic to use, only I could. The inverse was true when she chose the mission first. I realize that your system is meant to cut down on leeching, but it is now actively preventing legitimate teams from using two or more relics together. Your only hope, to my gathered knowledge, is to dive headfirst into Pubs and hope to god that everyone in there not only has the same Relic as you, with the same level of Refinement, but also doesn't fail your original mission.

I'm cool with RNG for this system, especially if it means 4 rolls of a 6-item table that we can influence, but the problem is that you can't organize a mass table roll without being able to, well, organize it. 

So you can have 4 pub players running a mission blind, no idea who's bringing what, or what relics they have at what refinement, and you're still expected to clear the mission afterward? Then why not have a team of 4 friends, running the same relic, at a Radiant refinement, with a setup designed for the mission able to kill out the crazy spawning gold people, earn the drop table spread, beat the mission, and have a choice between 4 possible drops, hopefully one of them the coveted Rare drop? Your system discourages premade teams. Get this worked on, ASAP.

And on the subject of working on things ASAP:

Tons of Your Drops No Longer Exist!

So me and my friends who hoped to everything that this new update would fix the stupidly low chances to collect those pieces we wanted got a nice surprise when we perused all of our Relics to discover that none of Mag Prime's pieces were in the drop tables. None of the Boar Prime pieces, None of the Dakra Prime Pieces, and a hefty handful of other pieces we need are suddenly nonexistant in the drop table! Suddenly the weapons and Frames you've been working on completing are now unable to be completed!

A list of them happens to be:

Trinity Prime Neuroptics
Nova Prime Neuroptics
Carrier Prime Blueprint
Spira Prime Blueprint and Blade
Orthos Prime Blueprint
Burston Prime Blueprint and Reciever
Vasto Prime Blueprint
Vectis Prime Reciever and Stock
Soma Prime Barrel
Lex Prime Reciever
Nikana Prime Hilt
Braton Prime Reciever

Unless all of these pieces drop from new relics that no previous Key owners would already have, It's fair to say your current drop table is full of duplicate rewards that eat up the space these things could be occupying, and as a result, are now impossible to fully create without players in the market taking full advantage of these gaps in the table to charge ludicrous prices for the missing pieces. To all who seek to refute the list of missing pieces, I want Relic Eras and Numbers to validate the claims, otherwise, and this has been a problem well before now: Fix your Drop Tables!

Edit: Okay, turns out there are some new Relics still out there, but of course, some of us would have no clue what Relics these are, so all the same, I'm keeping this post here to list the relics these weapon pieces are attached to if I ever. I still stand by that the tables are filled with Duplicate drops, I mean just take a look at Meso C1; Two Saryn Prime Systems as Common Drops. That relic couldn't be more unappealing, to say nothing about the rash of duplicate pieces all through the relics as a whole.

After the recent Relic Script that filled in the blanks on the Relic chart and some patches later, it seems most of my grievances had been addressed here;  Teams can be premade and run relics together again, so I am content on that front. What I'm not content with is that I noticed that there's still one missing piece. I took the time to confirm the Vault Access weapons are still here for now, but  Nova Prime's Neuroptics are still not in the table!

You remember what Nova Prime's Neuroptics are required for?

Advancing to Cephalon Suda's max rank. So not only is there still one incomplete prime, but a syndicate's highest tier is also locked off to players who haven't made it that far yet! You came so close, DE, but please, Check your tables! Two Soma Prime Barrels (Neo S3) or Two Saryn Prime Systems (Meso C1) on the same relic, in the same rarity is NOT how to make a drop table! You end up missing some things if you aren't careful about constructing them!

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There are problems with relic selection, sometimes it requires to choose relic several times before mission starts, especially when host changes.

Also limit of 100 traces makes leads to waste if we want something radiant. We will always waste 1-12 traces before reaching cap. It should be more like 999 so player dont have to watch his tracer limit.

 

There are two Axi V1 variants, confusing AF.

There could be some lore behind this letters, like

AXI Mercury, AXI Venus, AXI Earth, AXI Luna, AXI Mars, AXI Jupiter, Axi Saturn, AXI Uranus, Axi Neptune, AXI Pluton, AXI Kruiper, AXI Oort, AXI Void....

 

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12 hours ago, DelialFallen said:

 

It would appear our mileage is proving to be a vastly different experience.  All Tower 4 and 3 fissures I have attempted solo have been failures due to too few reactants dropping from enemies or too few enemies spawning at all.  So to me, it feels like my success depends on a toss of the dice more than something I can do anything about.  It's been an incredibly frustrating last few hours to say the least.

quoted for truth

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I don't know if it's already been said, but I think the lightning effects are way too strong visually. 

New void missions hurt my eyes a lot ! 

 

Gameplay wise... Well, I don't like them. As someone said, I'd prefer to hop into the void tear, then complete a side mission into the void tileset with a limited time to go out of the tear, than this. 

Having to kill everything is okay. Having to run around to find reactant, pick it up and bring it to the fissure... Nope. It's funny the first time, but way too repetitive in my opinion.

 

Still glad devs try something new, the game is evolving. There's potential in this new system, but as it is now I can't say I enjoy it more than the old one.

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ok here's my feedback : 

relics vs keys? relics are ok, but why not both? keys are still 'lore-wise' supposed to be fundamental to the void, removing them makes no sense 

fissures? these need to go, at least in their current form, they are just a horrible/bad idea/design, whoever thought that making EVERY fissure mission be the EXACT SAME just was not thinking clearly at all =/ 

suggestions : 

bring back the keys in some form, or potentially allow the currently ingame dragon keys serve a duel purpose [since there are conveniently 4 keys, and doubly good that each key conveys an addition burden/difficulty on the WF carrying it at the time] 

create several different unique tiles, once for each tileset that is not a ship ; these tiles are the new portal/gateway tiles ; these are the new void tears/fissures [think similar to the void sabotage portal tiles]

so alert/mission/etc pops up, you go to the mission, while in the mission you search around for the unique tile and when you find it, you use a key to open the portal/gateway to the void tileset, wherein you have to search around until you find the relic within, in a unique room similar to the dragon vaults ; maybe even the same room/tile that used to be used for the void 'raid' mission [and with a rare chance to find additional relics in rare crates or within treasure vaults or secret rooms] ; after finding the relic a timer should start as the neural sentry has detected a breach and will close all connecting portals in say 60-90 secs ; at least one tenno/WF must escape thru the portal before the timer counts down or the mission will be a failure [ie you do not escape with the relic, and your key is used up] ; say if at least 1 of the 4 WFs can make it out, then the others die but can be revived by the survivor outside the now closed portal/fissure/tear/etc

EDIT : another great idea : add the the dragon vaults to the non-derelict void tileset as well, so that in any mission if each tenno/WF brings a key they will have to spend 1 to access the portal, but then have a 75% chance at an additional relic behind the dragon vault [assuming they bring 1 of each key type and not 4 of the same or just 1 or whatevs] within the void tileset past the portal, and inside the vault will be an 'extra' relic as well as the chance for a rare/reinforced crate to spawn 

upon exiting the portal and back into the original mission tileset you then finish that mission and extract, taking with you the relic that you obtained 

now we involve the use of dojos/relays/syndicates in determining the spoils gained from relics : 

'unidentified' relics can be traded with other tenno or given to baro or the syndicates for ducats or standing based on the relic 'tier' ie 10/20/40/80 ducats or 200/400/800/1600 standing 

relics get identified by spending void traces on them at either a dojo station or the tenno's ship costing more traces to identify the higher tier relics : 25/50/75/100 

give dojos a room/structure/etc that can increase the odds of relics refining/identifying into better rewards [with the cost coming from additional traces or other materials] ; ie anyone can refine/identify a relic in their ship, but ONLY thru the unique room/tile/structure at a dojo can they increase the odds in their favor by spending like argon or cells or forma or whatevs 

all enemies within the void tileset AND the derelicts AND the moon/lua now have a chance to drop traces as do all crates/lockers within [much like any rare resource] 

Void Vor needs to be buffed and scale with the number and MR of the tenno in the mission ; additionally he needs to be 'weighted' to more aggressively pursue tenno using the 2 highest key tiers or WF's that have recently obtained a relic in a mission ; suggestions for new corrupted enemies that Void Vor can also summon as helpers : Flameblade, Scorpion, Corpus Tech, Hyenas, Infested Leaper, Infested Charger, and remove the corrupted grineer butchers [as they are lame] 

current setup of always having access to at least 1 randomized alert/mission type of each 'tier' of void access works fine 

obviously ducat/syndicate prices would be adjusted/balanced accordingly 

so ya, voila, there's my complete rework on the whole keys/relics/fissures system and how it would play out 

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On 14/07/2016 at 0:06 AM, PigeonFish said:

Fissures are definitely not fun, especially with all of the problems they currently have. They're frustrating as hell. Doubly so for solo players. Quadruply so for solo players who don't have a heavily armored warframe.

There are 6 very important things that can be done to make fissures at least tolerable...

  1. Stop fissure enemies from running away. At the very least limit the distance they'll stray from the fissure. It's not uncommon for them to run to completely different rooms and just sit there doing nothing. This stops the fissure from spawning replacement enemies, and causes a lot of unnecessary failures.
  2. Increase either the drop rate of chicken nuggets (reactant), or increase the amount of time feeding them to the fissure adds. Considering you waste half the time they give you just picking them up, this should really be increased either way.
  3. Stop allowing assassins to spawn during fissure missions. I can't count the number of times The Stalker has decided to show up in the middle of trying to close a fissure and just ruin everything. He never seems to show up when I want him to, but I swear one out of every 3 or 4 fissures I attempt, there he is.
  4. Don't make failing to close the fissure automatically fail your mission. Even if you lose all your traces with the failure of closing a fissure, you should still be allowed to complete the mission and keep all the credits and other materials you've picked up along the way.
  5. Limit enemy spawn points to line-of-sight with the fissure. I've seen enemies spawn stuck inside of walls, spawn in hidden areas, behind walls, under floors, you name it.
  6. When an enemy is killed and yields reactant, make it spawn statically on the ground where that enemy was killed. When it pops up into the air, it often gets stuck in places where it can't be picked up, or rolling slowly down an incline making it impossible to pick up until it finally reaches the bottom.

This still doesn't save fissures from being repetitive and quickly becoming dull, but if you insist on keeping the system's core mechanics the way they are, it should at least not be a major annoyance.

I personally find fissures  to be an alright amount of fun most of the time, but I'll add my grain of salt to this.

- Some fissures are much harder than others simply because of where they are. Their position is awkward and makes them spawn enemies way out sight, and chasing them around wastes time, which inevitably screws me over. Some of them do indeed run to go hide somewhere...

- I don't know if Axi fissures have a lower reactant drop rate, but every single time, and I do mean every single time, I have attempted an Axi fissure on my own and without using Nekros, I failed at 90% with a reactant in hand and about to drop it in. The drop rates are a bit too low, and combining this with the scattered enemies can really ruin everything and lead to a failure. The ensuing sensation of having been screwed over by the game is absolutely infuriating. I cannot put into words how frustrated and punished it makes me feel. 

- Reactant takes too long to pick up, due to it flying up and falling down, instead of spawning directly on the ground. I'm sure I could have managed to close those fissures with a handful of seconds left, had I not taken ages to pick up this precious reactant.

- I agree 100% with the idea that punishing a player, for being unable to close the fissure, with total mission failure, is excessive. Please undo this.

 - I can attest that assassins are a problem, and that them spawning during a fissure causes what we could call an "attention span overload" that makes me panic and fumble my way to a nice defeat. 

- Finally, there is a big issue that the post I quoted does not mention, so I'll bring it up :

fissure-spawned heavy gunner eximi are

WAY

TOO

TOUGH.

They are seriously overpowered. A T4 heavy gunner eximus spawned by a fissure literally has the toughness of a rank 120 heavy gunner. I am not joking. They have more than double their ranks in armor. When they spawn as leech eximi, they are an absolute nightmare to kill. I don't mind a challenge, but they are clearly disproportionately armored. Bombard eximi are not as excessive, strangely enough, although they are still a bit too tough.

That's all I have for now.

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