Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Milinko]

On 5/24/2017 at 5:26 PM, [DE]Megan said:

The Energy drain caused by Oberon’s Renewal affecting Nekros’ Shadows of the Dead (and other friendly summons overall) is something we’re currently reviewing. When people first discovered this at launch it was celebrated, but it has quickly turned to a less-than-desired synergy.  
 
As this thread has increased in size and conversations have drifted, many suggestions/concerns have been submerged in the depth. In reviewing this particular thread we just wanted to drop in that we're still reading the discussions to see what sparks any next steps for Oberon. 

Your constructive feedback, as always, is appreciated! 
 

The extra energy drain just needs to be removed there is already a drain to begin with so why punish him more the healing of Nekros' shadows is cool but all in all doesn't give them much duration so it really is confusing as to why that even after the update they still drain him at all. Or rather why healing multiple people drain him so much. It is just obscene compare him to trinity his armor buff comes no where near her damage reduction,and why doesn't he have damage mitigation as well as opposed to having armor because it's not like it synergizes with other abilities like iron skin or frost scarab armor, and Trinitiy's heal at the right power strength (which isn't that high) completely heals all in range to full health. A number of things should happen to Oberon to make it feel more logical to pick him over anyone else I'm not saying make it like Trin where you should one hundred percent pick him over any healer, just put him on the same playing field so it feels less like you're being unfair to Oberon himself.

The range on his abilities feel little lack luster, the single target damage of his 4 is actually below his 1, in groups his 1 is nothing more than a way to spread rad procs above level 25 which is where a majority of your time will be spent, his 2 does such little damage that what's the point of it doing damage in the first place, his synergy between his 3 and 2 had some of their issues fixed other than the already stated energy drain which was more of a band-aid on the mortal wound that brings Oberon down to being comparable to Hydroid, which by the way needs to be reworked ASAP especially if he will be the next prime frame after Oberon in 3 months. Overall if Oberon wants to be compared to not even in the meta just able to be compared to them he needs a boost to just about everything and the extra drain on his 3 needs to be removed.

I do love Oberon but in my experience he needs at least 200% power strength in order to even do mid level (30-50) content without mainly focusing on his weapons to do the work. I understand that this is conjecture because maybe you're still trying to balance him without pushing him over, but in my opinion push him over give the people what they want let them stress test him to find what's overpowered and what isn't with the full clarification that he is subject to nerfing because as he stands He isn't a King or even a prince he is more of a court jester fun guy to have around not something you want to take into battle though, at least he is no longer a peasant like Hydroid he made it out of being a meme.

I love you [DE] but when you have frames like Wukong Iron Clad Rhino Valkyr Trinity, Mendquinox, it just makes no sense why not give Oberon a little more damage, range, armor, and healing, not enough to beat the prior mentioned frames but enough to be compared to them. Oberon is meant to be the jack of all trades right not just any but the "jack of all trades" so why does Nidus do it better his infested carpet might not heal as much but everything else Nidus does makes up for it, good CC, scaling damage, tanking not a single thing Oberon can compare to Nidus with and if we take healing out of the equation a lot of frames do it better than him and I'm not even talking about how they focus it like Trinity focuses on support, Rhino is an incredible tank does astonishing CC and even damage boosts not only himself but also his team, trinity heals supplies energy tanks and evens strip all armor in one go at 223% power strength and abating link which Oberon can't do with his synergies at 300% power strength.

If the goal was to get Oberon to do anything and everything but just much lower than anyone else effectively making him twice the effort to build at half the payout well that's what we got but I personally believe that is not your goal and you try hard to please us, your fanbase, without breaking your game. Not saying Oberon should be at God Levels I just think he needs just that little oomph in all areas so he is more fun to play in both solo and team play. Take the same stats of whatever you put on Oberon and put it on a majority of frames and what will take them  on average 1 shot will take Oberon his entire energy pool to kill. Right now it's I guess he can do it but why choose him when there is someone else who can do it with a quarter of the cost and a quarter of the time. Personally I like him regardless but at the same time doesn't make him "good" let alone the best.

[Milinko]

On 5/24/2017 at 5:26 PM, [DE]Megan said:

The Energy drain caused by Oberon’s Renewal affecting Nekros’ Shadows of the Dead (and other friendly summons overall) is something we’re currently reviewing. When people first discovered this at launch it was celebrated, but it has quickly turned to a less-than-desired synergy.  
 
As this thread has increased in size and conversations have drifted, many suggestions/concerns have been submerged in the depth. In reviewing this particular thread we just wanted to drop in that we're still reading the discussions to see what sparks any next steps for Oberon. 

Your constructive feedback, as always, is appreciated! 
 

The extra energy drain just needs to be removed there is already a drain to begin with so why punish him more the healing of Nekros' shadows is cool but all in all doesn't give them much duration so it really is confusing as to why that even after the update they still drain him at all. Or rather why healing multiple people drain him so much. It is just obscene compare him to trinity his armor buff comes no where near her damage reduction,and why doesn't he have damage mitigation as well as opposed to having armor because it's not like it synergizes with other abilities like iron skin or frost scarab armor, and Trinitiy's heal at the right power strength (which isn't that high) completely heals all in range to full health. A number of things should happen to Oberon to make it feel more logical to pick him over anyone else I'm not saying make it like Trin where you should one hundred percent pick him over any healer, just put him on the same playing field so it feels less like you're being unfair to Oberon himself.

The range on his abilities feel little lack luster, the single target damage of his 4 is actually below his 1, in groups his 1 is nothing more than a way to spread rad procs above level 25 which is where a majority of your time will be spent, his 2 does such little damage that what's the point of it doing damage in the first place, his synergy between his 3 and 2 had some of their issues fixed other than the already stated energy drain which was more of a band-aid on the mortal wound that brings Oberon down to being comparable to Hydroid, which by the way needs to be reworked ASAP especially if he will be the next prime frame after Oberon in 3 months. Overall if Oberon wants to be compared to not even in the meta just able to be compared to them he needs a boost to just about everything and the extra drain on his 3 needs to be removed.

I do love Oberon but in my experience he needs at least 200% power strength in order to even do mid level (30-50) content without mainly focusing on his weapons to do the work. I understand that this is conjecture because maybe you're still trying to balance him without pushing him over, but in my opinion push him over give the people what they want let them stress test him to find what's overpowered and what isn't with the full clarification that he is subject to nerfing because as he stands He isn't a King or even a prince he is more of a court jester fun guy to have around not something you want to take into battle though, at least he is no longer a peasant like Hydroid he made it out of being a meme.

I love you [DE] but when you have frames like Wukong Iron Clad Rhino Valkyr Trinity, Mendquinox, it just makes no sense why not give Oberon a little more damage, range, armor, and healing, not enough to beat the prior mentioned frames but enough to be compared to them. Oberon is meant to be the jack of all trades right not just any but the "jack of all trades" so why does Nidus do it better his infested carpet might not heal as much but everything else Nidus does makes up for it, good CC, scaling damage, tanking not a single thing Oberon can compare to Nidus with and if we take healing out of the equation a lot of frames do it better than him and I'm not even talking about how they focus it like Trinity focuses on support, Rhino is an incredible tank does astonishing CC and even damage boosts not only himself but also his team, trinity heals supplies energy tanks and evens strip all armor in one go at 223% power strength and abating link which Oberon can't do with his synergies at 300% power strength.

If the goal was to get Oberon to do anything and everything but just much lower than anyone else effectively making him twice the effort to build at half the payout well that's what we got but I personally believe that is not your goal and you try hard to please us, your fanbase, without breaking your game. Not saying Oberon should be at God Levels I just think he needs just that little oomph in all areas so he is more fun to play in both solo and team play. Take the same stats of whatever you put on Oberon and put it on a majority of frames and what will take them  on average 1 shot will take Oberon his entire energy pool to kill. Right now it's I guess he can do it but why choose him when there is someone else who can do it with a quarter of the cost and a quarter of the time. Personally I like him regardless but at the same time doesn't make him "good" let alone the best.

[SDGDen]

first of. DE removed the drain completely. but later patched it back in because they didnt like the result

also. oberons 2 can kill enemies at any level due to having scaling. just not in one shot. it used to have only scaling and thats why *que brozime VS lvl1 heavy gunner*

and btw. saying "this frame does X. oberon cant do that. " is kinda stupid.... "oberon can up someones health regeneration without a max range to it. trinity cant do that. therefore trinity should get a buff because oberon is better in this one specific thing."

 

btw2: oberon isnt meant to be a heavy caster. why waste your entire energy pool on something that can be done in 2 seconds with the correct weapon?

and also: if we made oberons individual abilities match the power of the other abilities in that field. oberon would be op

since he would be the best healer, best tank, best dmg dealer AND best CC. 

[Urlan]

8 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

first of. DE removed the drain completely. but later patched it back in because they didnt like the result

also. oberons 2 can kill enemies at any level due to having scaling. just not in one shot. it used to have only scaling and thats why *que brozime VS lvl1 heavy gunner*

and btw. saying "this frame does X. oberon cant do that. " is kinda stupid.... "oberon can up someones health regeneration without a max range to it. trinity cant do that. therefore trinity should get a buff because oberon is better in this one specific thing."

 

btw2: oberon isnt meant to be a heavy caster. why waste your entire energy pool on something that can be done in 2 seconds with the correct weapon?

and also: if we made oberons individual abilities match the power of the other abilities in that field. oberon would be op

since he would be the best healer, best tank, best dmg dealer AND best CC. 

His Smite not Hallowed Ground, which has no scaling. Smite oddly goes down in damage scaling per wisp if you increase power strength as it splits the 35% per wisp and the wisp number increases with strength and decreases with reductions. If you can trap the enemies in a tight corridor, it can still work out however. Oberon getting his base energy boosted seems to suggest either he is now intended to cast, or its just covering his basis for toggle drain. I would agree that Renewal with Hallowed Ground support makes for Renewal to be a very useful durability tool. In general, Oberon is currently in a decent place for all-rounders; able to scale slightly for kills and confusion, remove status, heal with armor, or do increased damage and remove armor from enemies.

[Fallen_Echo]

52 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

first of. DE removed the drain completely. but later patched it back in because they didnt like the result

also. oberons 2 can kill enemies at any level due to having scaling. just not in one shot. it used to have only scaling and thats why *que brozime VS lvl1 heavy gunner*

and btw. saying "this frame does X. oberon cant do that. " is kinda stupid.... "oberon can up someones health regeneration without a max range to it. trinity cant do that. therefore trinity should get a buff because oberon is better in this one specific thing."

 

btw2: oberon isnt meant to be a heavy caster. why waste your entire energy pool on something that can be done in 2 seconds with the correct weapon?

and also: if we made oberons individual abilities match the power of the other abilities in that field. oberon would be op

since he would be the best healer, best tank, best dmg dealer AND best CC. 

Smite has terrible scaling.

35% shared accross all orbs means with 10 orbs each orb will deal 3.5% bonus damage. Useless.

IF they would change this mechanic in a way that orbs will damage the target for 5% of his max hp it would be a wonderful skill.

[Aimop95]

On 5/28/2017 at 4:18 PM, Buddhakingpen said:

So this is the forum circle of life at work eh? A frame considered bad gets buffed into a decent spot in the eyes of the general public, and then another frames fanbase comes out the woodwork to say they want the same things for their frame, when thats not even supposed to be that frames job.. Being a dev must be frustrating af lol. 

Mag has always been on the roster of Warframes the "community" thinks needs to be buffed. Because her rework feels unfinished. It'd be like if DE stopped with the Oberon changes after their first implementation. 

 

At this point I'd just love it if Pull could reliably drag people where I want them to be instead of ragdolling them to infinity and beyond.

[Music4Therapy]

People that have trouble with Oberon's energy fall into one of four categories:

1) They place too much emphasis on Strength and not enough on Efficiency.

2) They keep Renewal toggled on for too long (you can turn it off prematurely and still benefit from Iron Renewal)

3) They keep Renewal toggled on because of Phoenix Renewal and there is a Nekros in the party (Guardian Derision helps with this by pulling aggro to yourself and allowing you to stay topped up via Rage) This problem also doesn't exist if you have Arcane Energize, but its not necessary.

4) Similar to the first, they are modding Oberon incorrectly. Vitality+Primed Flow+Rage with max efficiency will allow you to stay topped up in energy. Add in Phoenix Renewal for a 90 second safety net (keep in mind that once every 90 seconds if you die you come back to life with essentially max health and energy)

Edited May 30, 2017 by Music4Therapy
Grammer

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

I believe I've found a solution, or at least a single possibility that could make Both parties happy regarding Oberon's energy usage.

There are those that want Oberon to spawn energy orbs with Reckoning.

And there are those that wish Reckoning to keep spawning health orbs. 

Personally I feel as though Reckoning should keep spawning health orbs. Yes, I understand that he already has a healing ability, but there are those, myself included (tho I've yet to try out such a build), that want to try and use Health Conversion with him. Ripping out health orbs in favor of energy orbs would destroy this build possibility. I'm a firm believer that it would also create an unhealthy reliance, not just for Oberon, but other Warframes. 

Keep this in mind. We have frames/plates/Zenurik that give energy, but what is the one thing all these have in common? Frames that use channeled abilites cannot gain energy from them. But these frames can get energy from orbs.

So I believe I've found another possibility that doesn't conflict with that.

Smite Infusion. Change it. Or rather update to truly change the ability like an Augment should. It can even keep its name and retain the ability to apply Radiation to allies attacks. But it would also gain a new bonus that changes Smite's behavior. Instead of spawning heat seeking damaging orbs when hitting an enemy, it would spawn Smite Orbs that siphon damage and turn into energy for Oberon and Oberon only. These Smite Orbs would travel to Oberon giving him energy based on the % of damage dealt to the enemy. Or maybe even % of enemies health, whatever.

In a way this wouldn't be too dissimilar from Nidus' ability, but it's not an instant return of energy. This would fix Oberon's Energy economy at the expense of a mod slot (balance).

Though this is merely one possibility. One of many, but seeing as this is the "Oberon Thread" I figured I'd drop this bit of feedback here. I'm going to bed now. Sweet dreams Tenno, and in the morn (or afternoon) I wish to see many Goat Primes roaming the wilds of the Origin System. Right, time to count sheep.

 

[KnightCole]

SO with it being the 30th, when does it update?

And what Relics will we need to farm to get hiM?

Edited May 30, 2017 by KnightCole

[P0Pz]

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 6:47 AM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Mag is great as is

Besides some lil tweaks here and there... YES.

Mag & Armor stripping + energy effi:

All talk about stripping armor with Mag uses to much casts...esp in higher lvls.

Her 3 offers flat armor "debuff".

Soo how could you and your squad benefit from it more then oberons 2 time casts limited in range/one time use.

Mag  

DOES stripp off armor WITH 1 CAST. No matter how much armor ANY of the TARGETS (<~ Targetsssss ) have.

Cast 2. Throw in 3-4 pox shots with Corrosive, pull or let foes just walk, in as much foes as you want..all get armor striped within a sec just entering the bubble... 

For a duration of 15+ sec..

And you can place up to 4 of them arround ya...even 40+ meters away from you and throw some pox shots after casting 2...

CC/ superio DDing/ endless scaling/ debuffing... Mags 2 is a real "swizz taschenmesser".

 

As a Mag main... i do not care oberons armor debuff 😂 all good for me.

Mine cost me less energy, debuffs in 1 sec, offers me security, nuke dmg, and spamable to deff a hole area effectiv and fast. 😎

Edited May 30, 2017 by P0Pz

[Windy_Wind]

Mag needs some serious changes since she's still clunky as hell.

Magnetize needs the ability to be manually detonated,

Polarize needs scaling, It doesn't need to be like oberon armor stripping but please make it scale, if percentage base is OP then just remove the AOE damage. Removing shield and armor only is good enough  (idk who in dev thought it was a good idea to remove its old scaling capability after the rework).

Crush is the most useless ability I have ever seen, even more useless than hydroid abilities. At least make it proc magnetic after a successful cast. Or better yet, transfer one of the augment mod stat over Crush, which is stopping enemy from moving within 8 second.

[P0Pz]

48 minutes ago, Windy_Wind said:

Mag needs some serious changes since she's still clunky as hell.

Magnetize needs the ability to be manually detonated,

Why?

Sucurity area for squad members, any foe walking in, dies or get strip off armor instant with Pox -Corrosive (+ Blast vs Infested melee runners). Torid - Radiation+ Viral. Let them pown them ny theire own...

The longer the bubble is up, the more dmg it can store. Well as a "feature" to do so..why not but not realy needed.

 

In 1 sec theire armor is almost instant gone as soon they dare to put the first step inside. You can pull in foes or just let them walk in while you chill or move to another location. While they are traped/ can not punch through/ direct armor debuffed and fighting each others...

The detonation in the end is good as it is imo. 

Mags 2 is super epic and you can do a lot different stuff with it esp while agile moving and casting.

Her 3 is more about to work as a Support for all. Already strong bc it insta refreshes shields from all squad members touched by the puls. The shield and armor debuff is imo just a bit bonus to it. But% would be ofc much better 15% would be great or for every target the puls hits, increases or adds +1% max armor/shield debuff until a certain cape is reached. I do not want 50% or 80% to reach with 1 puls..would make it way to strong imo. Cape -15% armor/schield, sounds okay + the flat armor/shield amount debuff.

Quote

Polarize needs scaling, It doesn't need to be like oberon armor stripping but please make it scale, if percentage base is OP then just remove the AOE damage. Removing shield and armor only is good enough  (idk who in dev thought it was a good idea to remove its old scaling capability after the rework).

Crush is the most useless ability I have ever seen, even more useless than hydroid abilities. At least make it proc magnetic after a successful cast. Or better yet, transfer one of the augment mod stat over Crush, which is stopping enemy from moving within 8 second.

Agree to crush...not the best skill..but helps out while standing in your 2 bubble to cast 4 to give your squad a chance to revive or what ever. But ya right... somthing is missing there.

 

Edit:

Using a Kavat can give even Torids clouds red criting status effect dmg for the hole duration... endless circling in your bubble..same for pox 😎

Well atm i use "Shade" as bonus survival tool.

 

And for all those dunno why and how Mags 2 is stripping armor "instant"..i suggest everyone to watch this:

And this:

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by P0Pz

[Crashen]

Reckoning spawns Energy Orbs, rather than Health Orbs. I would prefer if it was a 50% per enemy hit, rather than killed, or maybe even 25%. 

He doesnt need health orbs dropping, thats what renewal is for, and relying on reckoning health orbs is too chancy. Having Reckoning spawn energy orbs allows Oberon to fill a similar niche role to Trinity without stepping on her toes, allowing him to be a more well rounded support frame.

[DarkRuler2500]

This would be cool indeed.

However Energy Orb on hit (even if it was only 50% only) would cause approximately 5-6 orbs on a regular reckoning cast effectively causing all efficiency worthless. It could prove useful but it needs careful balancing to avoid energy overflow in large magnitude.

[Chipputer]

The health orbs are pointless, yeah, but he doesn't need energy orbs and he definitely doesn't need them to happen on hit, rather than on death. I've already got zero energy problems and can hold down entire rooms with both radiation procs and reckoning knockdowns. You really want to make it even easier for me to do so by letting me spawn at least one energy orb from every enemy that I slam within the process of holding down and methodically kill them?

Stop suggesting this.

[Slaviar]

I would just lower energy drain on Renewal since it's his main energy eater. But yeah, energy orb with some low % (like 20%) not affected by power str would be cool.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Slaviar

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

The health orbs are pointless, yeah, but he doesn't need energy orbs and he definitely doesn't need them to happen on hit, rather than on death. I've already got zero energy problems and can hold down entire rooms with both radiation procs and reckoning knockdowns. You really want to make it even easier for me to do so by letting me spawn at least one energy orb from every enemy that I slam within the process of holding down and methodically kill them?

Stop suggesting this.

This isn't just about giving Oberon energy, it's about making a frame other than Trinity grant energy to other frames.

[Tizodd]

4 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

The health orbs are pointless, yeah, but he doesn't need energy orbs and he definitely doesn't need them to happen on hit, rather than on death. I've already got zero energy problems and can hold down entire rooms with both radiation procs and reckoning knockdowns. You really want to make it even easier for me to do so by letting me spawn at least one energy orb from every enemy that I slam within the process of holding down and methodically kill them?

Stop suggesting this.

Stop tooting your own horn.

Not everyone is a pro Oberon player like you seem to think you are.

It's fine if you disagree with the OP, but to tell him/her to "Stop suggesting this" is rude.

[Emolition]

Don't Necros desecrate drop energy orbs for oberon? while oberon drop health orbs for necro =P

[Chewarette]

Everyone here is talking about Oberon's "energy problem"... How ? Are you all running with Blind Rage uncompensated ?

[Railgun]

5 minutes ago, Emolition said:

Don't Necros desecrate drop energy orbs for oberon? while oberon drop health orbs for necro =P

Yes, but you're not always going to be playing with a Nekros in the squad.
Nekros also drops an ample amount of health orbs by himself too, He doesn't need to rely on an Oberon.

[Marine027]

9 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Everyone here is talking about Oberon's "energy problem"... How ? Are you all running with Blind Rage uncompensated ?

Ironicly alot do accordign to alot of builds i seen.

Working with Rage, Primed Flow and Quick Thinking is effective enough for me with, rather going on survibalbility then pure strength.

[Emolition]

5 minutes ago, SergeantSunshine said:

Yes, but you're not always going to be playing with a Nekros in the squad.
Nekros also drops an ample amount of health orbs by himself too, He doesn't need to rely on an Oberon.

Was mostly a joke as my oberon rather not have a necro in the party as the shadows drain my energy more then it would need to.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

14 minutes ago, Emolition said:

Don't Necros desecrate drop energy orbs for oberon? while oberon drop health orbs for necro =P

I don't think any Oberon would wanna play with Nekros.

[Sziklamester]

I dont mind which orb because the equilibrium thats why have for it. Instead of dropping orbs I could imagine to instant replenish a certain amount of overall energy or like how limbos' cata work now each enemy killed gives 10 energy. That is a fair trade and also would like to have a 10-15 sec blind which is great for reducing the enemies potential.