Hydroid Alterations - Post Revisit

[Navarc]

The revisit has happened, it is amazing for Hydroid and Hydroid mains. I think he's in an amazing place right now, you can bring just melee and have more than decent survivability in sorties and endless missions. He's in no doubt far better than in the past & I'm really appreciative DE did this for Hydroid as I was worrying what happened with Banshee would occur.
I still think there are some minor things that could be added to his abilities that would greatly, greatly improve him and his role in the game without making him over-the-top.

Details, reasoning, alternatives & credits are all beneath.

Abilities

Spoiler

It's in a good place and it's definitely a powerful one. Although it's nowhere as close as the newer warframes like Harrow & Nidus and nowhere as important feeling. You can entirely skip it without too much punishment whereas the 1 of a Warframe really should be more important and worthwhile. It's lackluster but not outright bad.
Tempest Barrage

• Tempest Barrage (1) - Other warframes interaction: Goes through Frosts globe & other warframes abilities with physical properties.
• Tempest Barrage (1) - Anticlimactic duration solution: Every enemy in the target area increases the duration by 1 second.
• Tempest Barrage (1) - Meet us halfway on the nerf: Set it to 8 seconds. Nerfing it from 10 seconds to 5 struck us really hard and duration builds suffered severely. We got it, hold 1 to extend duration & damage!

 

Tidal Surge

• Tidal Surge (2) - Minimum distance:  Has a minimum capped speed stat of 20 so that negative stats don't make his 2 static * @RobWasHere
• Tidal Surge (2) - Plundering proper:  Destroys objects while travelling - not just the wavebreak.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Combo counter buff:  Each enemy damaged by wave & wavebreak adds a count to the melee combo counter.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Hitbox fix:  Reduces the size of your hitbox vertically, allowing you to travel through areas you cannot whilst running and need to slide to get under. Video Demonstation.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Timing & positioning buff:  Enemies that take slash damage at the wavebreak opens enemies up for finishers for 2/3/4/5 seconds.
• Tidal Surge (2) - New airborne animation: If airborne when casting, has an animation that can be seen from all perspectives. The current animation has no bottom. 1 2
• Tidal Surge (2) - Recastable: Tidal Surge can be cast again for half the cost during a tidal surge by holding 2. @DrSleeepy
• Tidal Surge (2) - Cancel prematurely:  Tidal Surge can be cancelled by clicking 2 again. The wavebreak happens where Hydroid cancels the cast. We got it, you can now cancel by clicking 3. But doing this means you spend more energy to travel less & you don't proc slash. This version is better. @Azamagon @D20  @GTG3000 
• Tidal Surge (2) - Less ragdolling but still CC: Enemies are absorbed into the wave and dropped off where the wave is cancelled to avoid enemies being flung off the map and then you have to wait like 20 seconds for them to relocate somewhere so you can kill them. We got it - this ability now grabs enemies better and doesn't fling them as wildly without submerging them.

 

Undertow

• Undertow (3) - Reasonable speed: Now has the same speed as Ivaras Prowl.
  It already costs more, costs even if you don't have enemies captured, costs when you're standing still, costs when you capture enemies. Costing so much for the low velocity doesn't really make sense. I believe in some builds it's faster clicking 2 to move around in it. I personally don't see a reason to use it for over 10 seconds outside spy missions but at the speed it is at I don't think there's any point to letting you move with it.
• Undertow (3) - Readying up: Can reload & change weapons while in undertow, giving you time to prepare for when you emerge.
• Undertow (3) - Spy utility: Lasers that pass over you, such as those in Spy rooms won't detect you when you're in the Undertow form.
• Example: 2 Energy per second on rank 30 hydroid with no mods, so each tentacle adds another 2 energy per second being spent while the tentacle is out. When it has retracted the energy cost is returned to what it is meant to be.
• Undertow (3) - Deployable:  Hold to deploy rather than become Undertow. No invulnerability in exchange for mobility. Run into puddle to submerge.
• Undertow (3) - Animation issue: Some idle animations actually moves you forward. And consumes extra energy. That's really really bad.
• • Alternative: Undertow (3) - Mobility: Bulletjump out of the Undertow as an apparition of a Lanx, where you land a new Undertow will be placed and the previous will dissipate, releasing enemies from the old Undertow. During bulletjump you are vulnerable. @DeckChairVonBananaCamel
• Undertow (3) - Enemy damage transfer: Hostile damage on the surface is spread on enemies submerged. Fire, explosives, gasses and such.
  • Undertow (3) - Allies damage transfer: Allies damage to the puddle is divided among enemies in the puddle.
    This might be overpowered, I don't know. I would say some CC frames have even better things like Vortex & Magnetize but this would be quite a gamechanger for Hydroids in squads. We got it!
• Undertow (3) - Vulnerability: Enemies sink halfway immediately but struggle to get out and slowly sink the other half, with their head & arms exposed in panic. If unalerted they sink entirely just like the old Undertow. @Gundamboy We got it! You can now damage all enemies in pool by shooting into the pool.
• Undertow (3) - A drop: Can now be cast midair. Using while airborne drops you straight down at 2X falling speed. We got it!
• Undertow (3) - Single target control: Click enemies to launch tentacles that capture enemies, making them knocked down & drag them into the Undertow. Each tentacle out will increase the energy per second cost by itself.  We got it!
• Undertow (3) - Scaling damage:  Deals 100 Finisher damage for each enemy submerged. Scales with power strength. We got it! Well, a variation of it! @Somb3rBivalve
• Undertow (3) - Mobility: Move while in Undertow at 50% speed. As you move further away from where enemies fell in they will start emerging again, alerted and energy drain is doubled while moving. We got it!
  • Alternative: Undertow (3) - Mobility: Cast Tidal Surge to relocate with Undertow. We got it!
• Undertow (3) - Adapting: Cast abilities while in Undertow. We got it!  @Azamagon

 

Tentacle Swarm

• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Aesthetic: If cast while in Undertow, the charred blobfish now follows Undertow if it moves.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Grineer tileset functionality: Can now target & destroy grineer objects.
  Currently targets & destroys grates, security cameras & corpus turrets on Corpus tilesets. Can't target ramparts, fans, sensor bars, arc traps, broken lights or any grineer equivalent. 
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Energy production support: Enemies being captured by Tentacle Swarm have a doubled chance of dropping Energy Orbs when being killed from any source.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Performance: If there are no enemies or objects to target the tentacles will just turn into tiny puddles* until there are enemies in the area to attack which will help with performance.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Anti-dragging out defense missions: Warframe melee strikes on tentacles causes them to drop their target for you to kill. Only default strikes work, not slide attacks. Too many whip & polearm macro users for 4 to ever work otherwise. @Vorcov
  • Alternative: Tentacle Swarm (4) - Holding still: Tentacles with captured enemies will halt if aimed at. @DarkG7
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Synergy & support allies with range: Enemies that are prone when tentacles grab them are held in place, being crushed instead of being slammed against the floor.  @RudyBojangles
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Loot & spy utility: If there are no enemies to target, tentacles will break objects.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Toughen: Hydroids tentacles have collision for enemy projectiles. Grenades are bounced back, rockets are detonated.
  It fits with DEs idea of his abilities being random in effect & would grant his CC some defensive capabilities which is welcome for such a squishy Warframe.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Scaling: Deals 2% of enemy health every second, scaling with power strength. @Meneliki @Somb3rBivalve @Azamagon @morningstar999 @Riot_Inducer @sappinmahsentry 
• 200% Power Strength isn't hard to hit and would bring it to 4% meaning you deal 80% of enemies damage over 20 seconds on just 100 duration. Normally you'd have more duration than 100.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Self-positioning: Tentacle Swarm relocates to where an enemy is if it doesn't damage anyone for 2 seconds. This is very similar to World On Fire except the tentacles don't select a new target 'til their target is dead. We got it! A not as effective version as the suggestion for sure but now the tentacles actually target enemies. @OceanTempest @Bouldershoulder @NovaBlue353 @Marbelik
  Clarification: They don't relocate outside of the range Tentacle Swarms AOE is.

Passive

Spoiler

We currently have 50% to put a tentacle on yourself when attacking the floor. It's an incredibly unreliable attack and the few cases where it does manage to hit anything it's just as underwhelming as it is unreliable. 

• Element: Hydroid upon being incapacitated (bleeding out) gets an undertow form beneath him which submerges enemies but doesn't deal damage, doesn't scale off of any power mods. When knocked down turns into a small puddle that can't submerge enemies but is invulnerable to damage until emerging.
  This passive should be combined with whichever passive it is that DE finds optimal, I really think it partially makes up for his melee front invulnerability being gone.
  You already can do this by clicking 3 right before taking a lethal hit, since you don't immediately go invulnerable.*  I just think it should be innate if you can already do it and people actively do it to make it easier to pick them up with no enemies being there to overwhelm whoever is resurrecting.

+

• Current Passive Buff - Deep Tendril: Melee attacking prone enemies summons 1 tentacle under the 2nd closest target to Hydroid each time for 15 seconds that follow you striking new enemies if the first target die. Doing it again adds a second tentacle and refreshes duration. Functions like a very weak CC version of World On Fire.
  Example: In the situation that your attack on the prone enemy is lethal, there's no point in summoning a tentacle on a corpse.
  In the situation that your attack on the prone enemy isn't lethal it's good for the tentacle to take care of surrounding enemies & objects while you've taking out the prone enemy. If there's nothing else to attack then the tentacle will attack the only enemy of course, but the most reasonable thing is to make it start from the 2nd to most close enemy to Hydroid the way I've thought of it being used in various situations. I'll add the example to it so I can explain the reasoning behind why I find that more useful
  • @Oates_Superior current passive buff: Deep Tendril: Performing a ground finisher on a prone enemy causes a tentacle to spawn on the target unless the ground finisher deals lethal damage. If the groundfinisher deals lethal damage there's a 50% chance to spawn on the closest enemy to Hydroid.

-or-

• Liquescence: In casting animations where Hydroid gets a water texture (all casting animations), Hydroid won't take puncture, slash & impact damage or their status effects. Knockdown & stagger immunity as well.
• Liquescence: While liquescenced, lasers & cameras cannot detect him. Regulators, Orokin Spectators, Security Cameras, Laser Barriers, Laser Sensors and anything of the same sort. 
  Example: Activating Undertow (3) before a laser passes over you will not detect you. Using energy to cast 2 to go through a laser won't get you detected. You'd also be able to cast your 1 and pass through a laser undetected.

-or-

• Water Pollution: When Hydroid has a status applied to him it is absorbed, having no effect but his next ability cast will have 100% chance to apply that status proc. Only one status can be stored this way.
  Example: You become ignited, this causes your next ability to apply ignited to all enemies hit by it.

-or-

• Thalassophobous:  The amount of health damage Hydroid takes is a % chance the attacker will get Feared (Nekros terrify effect), dealing 50% of Hydroids health in damage is a 50% chance to get Feared. 
  This works in many ways, fear of the open sea, the deep, beings of the sea are all different and very common phobias. The Thalassophobous passive will help with defending against both high and low fire-rate enemies.

 -or-

• Thuggery/Plunder: Melee strikes steals 6 armour and 5 shield recharge, shield recharge capping at +35 and armour capping at +300 lasting for 15 seconds, each stack refreshes the duration. Continues stripping shield recharge & armour even if on max stacks.

 -or-

• Rogue wave: When performing a slam attack that damages: a watery apparition of Hydroid casts a low Tidal Surge that can only knock enemies down rather than ragdoll them. Deals direct slam attack damage if it hits any enemies scaling with mods, travelling where you were aiming when performing the slam attack. Hits add to combo counter. @Gundamboy

   -or-

• Hydroenergetic: Prone enemies that die in Hydroids affinity aura generate 2 energy to all allies in the affinity aura.

 

Augments

Spoiler

 

• Ringing Ears: Tempest Barrage Augment (1): Salvo strikes have a 5/7/10 area around the damaging area which causes enemies to become disoriented and open for finishers. Lasts 3/5/7 seconds & duration mods extend it.
  Enemies will clutch their ears like nyx chaos animation.
• Preparations: Tidal Surge Augment (2): Tidal Surge sinks Hydroid and re-emerges back-to-back to an ally within 10/15/20/25 meters radius, targeting furthest first, granting you both 3/5 stacks of a buff "Quick-draw" which triples reloading/weapon draw speed.
  Emerges at: Warframes, Rescue Targets, Def. Mission Operatives, & Specters.
• Wet Powder: Tidal Surge Augment (2): Enemies touched by the wave have their guns jammed for 6/8/10 seconds, increases with duration mods but no longer ragdolls or knocks down enemies. 
  Yes, I know energy weapons thousands of years into the future don't use gunpowder. The name isn't to be taken literally. The water just causes their weaponry to malfunction, alright?
• Dark Waters: Undertow Augment (3): Corpses sunk into the Undertow are converted into Hydroid husks, crawling out of the Undertow and following enemies for 8/10/12/15 seconds. On death or expiration they explode, using the same animation and stats as your tempest barrage salvo. If tempest barrage is augmented the husk explosion will use that augment. @Gundamboy
• Maelstrom: Undertow Augment (3): No longer submerges Hydroid and his companion, 25/50/75% increased range, enemies nearby slowly get sunk, swirling into the middle where they get fully submerged. @Aquasurge 
  Single cast means it can be cancelled in case a too strong enemy is submerged which you need to kill, like in Defense where all enemies must die to continue to the next wave. Slowly sinking them means you can still shoot them all up until they reach the middle, where they'll be fully submerged. You sacrifice your invulnerability for mobility with this augment. CAN be used with Curative Undertow to create a giant healing pad.
• Cloudburst: Undertow Augment (3): No longer deals damage, no longer makes Hydroid invulnerable, no longer submerges enemies. Reduces enemy line of sight by 3 meters scaling with power range and allies within the area gain +30% Evasion scaling with power strength. Area is 15/20/25 meters scaling with power range.
  Visually this would summon the mist that appears in Hydroids Tentacle Swarm animation & within the area there'd be Ceres shipyards heavy downpour inside the area. This doesn't follow Hydroid - it's deployed.@kapn655321

 

Augment Buffs:

• Corroding Barrage: Tempest Barrage (1) BUFF: Tentacles in Deep Tendril are replaced with salvo.
• Tidal Impunity: Tidal Surge (2) BUFF: Applies to all friendly targets, including companions, operatives & rescue targets.
• Tidal Impunity: Tidal Surge (2) BUFF: Also stops Energy Drain from proccing. Just like the newer Negation Swarm on Inaros.
• Curative Undertow: Undertow Augment (3) BUFF: Allies of any kind also gain +5/7/10 seconds of bleedout.
  Curative Undertow: Undertow Augment (3) BUFF: Now has infinite cast range rather than on himself, it's deployed on location and if Hydroid comes in contact with it he and his companion become submerged. @DeckChairVonBananaCamel
• Curative Undertow: Undertow Augment (3) BUFF:  Allies who walk into undertow are submerged to their elbows, able to crouch to entirely cover themselves.
• Curative Undertow: Undertow Augment (3) BUFF: If taking lethal damage while you have energy, remain at 1HP and submerge into Undertow.
• Pilfering Swarm: Tentacle Swarm (4) BUFF: Enemies who take damage by the tentacles will drop loot 1 time, as if Ivara had pickpocketed them.

Names

Spoiler

"I think people are still shocked that it's called Hydroid." DE Steve
"People don't like the name Hydroid" DE Rebecca

An issue with Hydroids name is that it's a joke. It's a pun. All other element related warframes before him stick to a certain theme with their names which Hydroid did not get to follow - for some mysterious reason. Hydroids name has been disputed ever since it was announced and even then, right then and there on stream the hosts said it might change if it's so controversial - but we never got to vote for anything else.
Ember, a small spark of something once ignited, barely capable of making a fire. Ember the warframe sets the world on fire, causing explosions of fire wherever she goes.
Frost, a small layer of ice crystals needing specific conditions to even exist, weak and fragile. Frost throws down avalanches and his ice is impenetrable.
Volt, a small potential energy charge, not able to power much. Electrocutes dozens of enemies in a second and destroys electric equipment with ease, disabling any systems.
Zephyr, known as the mildest and most gentle of all winds. Summons tornadoes capable of absorbing elements from anything passing causing them to harness any other element.

Pre-Hydroid Element Theme:

• Rivulet
• Rill
• Creek
• Ryllet
• Loch
• Tarn
• Sluice
• Wadi 
• Fjord

Name Ideas (Post-Hydroid theme)

• Genthus
• Triton
• Nerus
• Mako
• Phorcys
• Leviathan
• Roebuck
• Rover
• Mezi
• Barracuda

Visuals   We undoubtedly got it!
Hydroids abilities should all be transparent, not opaque. Water is not opaque & right now all his abilities look gelatinous or claylike.
When his abilities were shown to us on devstream* they were transparent and the entire ability didn't turn into his energy colour, only the outlines in many cases. Since then they updated how energy looks so that black energy doesn't turn certain things invisible by making energy have an alternate colour which is always white. I'd like to see hydroids water texture either changed back or updated.
Hydroids texture should be turned into the same transparent water texture aforementioned during his ability casts - and when applying the water texture on allies they should too have it be transparent.

Drop location
Hydroid drops on Earth from Vay Heks mission, because they came out the same update and Hydroid had nowhere else he could be dropped at the time.
Earth has a Day/Night Cycle. Equinox has Day/Night parts that have to be constructed. @WarOverlord pointed out to me that it would make a lot of sense of Equinox was moved to earth and day parts dropped during day while night parts dropped during night. That would make Equinox less tedious and have less RNG involved, still twice as much as any other warframe excluding Vauban but still be sensible.
That makes room for Hydroid to drop on the Uranus assassination with Tyl Regor which many I'm sure would agree fits.
EDIT: There has been a thread created for just this change, if you agree with this drop location part of the thread please support the other thread suggesting this as well.

Suggestions before revisit (Archived just because)

Spoiler

Hydroid overall has low stats and the way he plays don't make up for it yet. He hasn't received a proper update in quite a while just a few QOL changes here and there, in fact he has not even got the new PBR shaders as of yet.
With Hydroid Prime confirmed, I've made this thread to show what I'm wanting to see in Hydroid to make him shipshape.
I seek to give DE suggestions for whatever next big patch is coming involving Hydroid that give more fluid gameplay & more ballast to abilities that aren't quite where they should be with how the game has evolved since his release.

As frontline crowd-control characters are my favourite, keeping enemies at bay, Hydroid is as expected my top played character. Especially on release, where he benefited most from the new Melee 2.0 that came out with him.
Oberon was good with his higher overall stats but Hydroid had more control over the battlefield by deploying his abilities in different locations to hold off an area entirely and even if he had low armour he could take more fire before falling but it took skill to keep Hydroid alive by actively using melee to block, taking cover when your stamina ran out and predicting how much stamina you would need to get behind cover before taking damage.
Two abilities that were melee range to take effect & at the same time would grant safety during their effect instead of armour took a lot of skill & timing to pull off but he definitely had a unique way to be played. That's what got me hooked.
High-risk high-reward.

Nowadays I play him as a CC caster, which he does poorly due to low damage & inferior control than most casters but his role he was given on release was entirely deleted from the game so there's not much option. He's really off the edge of the map going from melee front-line to caster - I seek to improve him in his new role & restore the old role he once had with this thread. If you want to suggest a huge rework for Hydroid removing his abilities rather than merging or improving them then this is not the thread for you, I suggest heading on over to Fan Concepts.

Stats

When stamina was a part of warframe, Hydroid & Valkyr had the most stamina out of all Warframes, sitting at a massive 150 stamina.
This allowed them to have extreme potential with melee as when you had stamina you would have 100% damage reduction from blocked strikes & projectiles, allowing them to safely approach enemies to attack & maneuver to the enemy without wasting half of their stamina. This solved the problem of melee being lesser than range due to having to close the distance between enemies while taking damage the entire time*.
Stamina was later removed and Valkyr was unaffected due to her extreme armour & several minutes long invulnerability with her 4. Hydroid however was hit hard, he had no stat or ability altered to make up for this and would have no end-game melee potential for years until Naramon was added & we shouldn't have to combo a warframe with a focus school to make them be able to play the way they initially were meant to be played.

Many people want Hydroids armour raised to at least 100. I'm personally against Hydroid having average or above armour though, what with being a caster and his theme. Whether you see him as a squid, hydromancer or a pirate*, neither of them really have that tough protection. But a lot of people want him to have 100 armour or above.
My solution would be to add +30% Evasion stat to Hydroid on rank 30, similar to how Nidus gets his Health Regen stat by ranking up. 

On rank 30:
+45% Energy Max
+200% Health 
+200% Shield
+30% Evasion

Base:
Armour 65
Health 100
Power 100
Shield 115
10%/15%/20%/25%/30% Evasion
    Alternative: 125 Armour. We got it, nearly even twice as much!
That's less than Saryn, mind you despite her dealing far more damage and not being as close to enemies as Hydroid is with his charging & melee encouraged play.

Abilities

As of right now, only Tempest Barrage can be held down (1) to see its total range - but it's unclear and even completely invisible if you have an Equinox in your squad. I believe since no Hydroid ability is channeled that you should be able to hold down any of the abilities to see its area of effects range at least as clearly as Nidus, the slight effect Hydroid gets on Tempest Barrage is just not enough.

Tempest Barrage:

• Tempest Barrage (1) - Other warframes interaction: Goes through Frosts globe & other warframes abilities with physical properties.
• Tempest Barrage (1) - Pretty much a broadside: You can multi-cast this by clicking again while the animation is playing. Energy is still consumed every cast, simply don't have to wait the long delay.
• Tempest Barrage (1) - Removed Delay: The ability starts when the cast animation starts, not afterwards because the salvo have an animation and travel time, making the delay significant enough for enemies to pass the area. @Nomen_Mortis
  This way you won't have to lead your shots with a random area barrage. Currently it feels the same as throwing a speargun with heavy caliber.
• Tempest Barrage (1) - RNG Improvement 1: The salvo target enemy locations. Enemies that move don't get hit but enemies hiding behind cover do get hit.
• Tempest Barrage (1) - RNG Improvement 2: Last salvo strikes the middle and is large, effecting the entire AOEs area. @Azamagon
• Tempest Barrage (1) - Anticlimactic duration solution: Every enemy in the target area increases the duration by 1 second.
• Tempest Barrage (1) - Meet us halfway on the nerf: Set it to 8 seconds. Nerfing it from 10 seconds to 5 struck us really hard and duration builds suffered severely. We got it, hold 1 to extend duration & damage!
  • Alternative: Set it to 10 seconds again, but swap position with Tidal Surge to fix energy costs and keep consistency. Charging attacks are always on 1 except for Hydroids and charging attacks always cost the least, except Hydroids. If the duration of his 1 was increased to 10 seconds and was the cheapest it wouldn't feel overpowered. I think swapping their positions but increasing Tempest Barrages duration is entirely fair.
    Tempest Barrage (1) - Enemies within the are where barrage is cast, whether struck or not will be increasing the damage potential of the Tempest Barrage by increasing each salvos damage. 10% Of this formula scaling with power strength. @Azamagon Sum of Enemies' Max Health + Sum of Enemies' Max Shields / Number of Enemies = Bonus Damage

 

Tidal Surge:

• Tidal Surge (2) - Cancel prematurely:  Tidal Surge can be cancelled by clicking 2 again. The wavebreak happens where Hydroid cancels the cast. We got it, you can now cancel by clicking 3. @Azamagon @D20  @GTG3000 
• Tidal Surge (2) - Minimum distance:  Has a minimum capped speed stat of 20 so that negative stats don't make his 2 static * @RobWasHere
• Tidal Surge (2) - Removed pause post-cast: Really simple, remove the pause to make it feel more fluid. Moving at high speed invulnerable then standing still for a moment while vulnerable cancels the first part out if you get killed from it. This will allow you to without interrupting the invulnerability go right into 3 at the end of his 2.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Plundering proper:  Destroys objects while travelling - not just the wavebreak.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Swiping proper:  Loot the ability passes over is picked up.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Combo counter buff:  Each enemy damaged by wave & wavebreak adds a count to the melee combo counter.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Hitbox fix:  Reduces the size of your hitbox vertically, allowing you to travel through areas you cannot whilst running and need to slide to get under. Video Demonstation.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Timing & positioning buff:  Enemies that take slash damage at the wavebreak opens enemies up for finishers for 2/3/4/5 seconds.
• Tidal Surge (2) - No damage no cost:  If no enemies are damaged with this ability, 100% of the energy cost is returned.
  Same as Atlas 1 returning energy if you deal no damage.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Mobile cast:  Can be cast while sprinting & does not force you into a stationary position before animation.
• Tidal Surge (2) - New airborne animation: If airborne when casting, has an animation that can be seen from all perspectives. The current animation has no bottom. 1 2
• Tidal Surge (2) - Less ragdolling but still CC: Enemies are absorbed into the wave and dropped off where the wave is cancelled to avoid enemies being flung off the map and then you have to wait like 20 seconds for them to relocate somewhere so you can kill them.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Like a geyser: Is now fully directional, aiming straight up would launch you straight up.
• Tidal Surge (2) - Recastable: Tidal Surge can be cast again for half the cost during a tidal surge by holding 2. @DrSleeepy

 

Undertow:

• Undertow (3) - Readying up: Can reload & change weapons while in undertow, giving you time to prepare for when you emerge.
• Undertow (3) - A drop: Can now be cast midair. Using while airborne drops you straight down at 2X falling speed. We got it!
• Undertow (3) - Normal camera: You can move your camera around freely, not just in a T. Camera lifted from the floor. I can't see anything with how it is currently.
• Undertow (3) - Spy utility: Lasers that pass over you, such as those in Spy rooms won't detect you when you're in the Undertow form.
• Undertow (3) - Single target control: Click enemies to launch tentacles that capture enemies, making them knocked down & drag them into the Undertow. Each tentacle out will increase the energy per second cost by itself.  We got it!
  Example: 2 Energy per second on rank 30 hydroid with no mods, so each tentacle adds another 2 energy per second being spent while the tentacle is out. When it has retracted the energy cost is returned to what it is meant to be.
• Undertow (3) - Deployable:  Hold to deploy rather than become Undertow. No invulnerability in exchange for mobility.
• Undertow (3) - Scaling damage:  Deals 100 Finisher damage for each enemy submerged. Scales with power strength. We got it! Well, a variation of it! @Somb3rBivalve
• Undertow (3) - Manual cancel emergency CC: If manually cancelling, causes an AOE stagger around the Undertow area to enemies standing and breaks objects around, this stagger deals no damage. Similar to Frost destroying a snowglobe. @SurfByShootin 
• Undertow (3) - Easier to loot: Items dropped on the water flows to the middle, picked up when you rise.
• Undertow (3) - Ally support: Allies standing on Undertow have Status immunity.
• Undertow (3) - Vulnerability: Enemies sink halfway immediately but struggle to get out and slowly sink the other half, with their head & arms exposed in panic. If unalerted they sink entirely just like the old Undertow. @Gundamboy
• Undertow (3) - Mobility: Move while in Undertow at 50% speed. As you move further away from where enemies fell in they will start emerging again, alerted and energy drain is doubled while moving. We got it!
  • Alternative: Undertow (3) - Mobility: Cast Tidal Surge to relocate with Undertow. We got it!
    • Alternative: Undertow (3) - Mobility: Bulletjump out of the Undertow as an apparition of a Lanx, where you land a new Undertow will be placed and the previous will dissipate, releasing enemies from the old Undertow. During bulletjump you are vulnerable. @DeckChairVonBananaCamel
• Undertow (3) - Adapting: Cast abilities while in Undertow.  @Azamagon
  • Tentacle Swarm (4) summons tentacles from the Undertow that pulls in up to 12 enemies into the Undertow.
  • Tidal Surge (2) from the Undertow you launch surges of water, pushing enemies back in the direction.
  • Tempest Barrage (1) is launched from the Undertow rather than from the sky.
• Undertow (3) - Enemy damage transfer: Hostile damage on the surface is spread on enemies submerged.

 

Tentacle Swarm:

• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Grineer tileset functionality: Can now target & destroy grineer objects.
  Currently targets & destroys grates, security cameras & corpus turrets on Corpus tilesets. Can't target ramparts, fans, sensor bars, arc traps, broken lights or any grineer equivalent. 
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Energy production support: Enemies being captured by Tentacle Swarm have a doubled chance of dropping Energy Orbs when being killed from any source.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Performance: If there are no enemies or objects to target the tentacles will just turn into tiny puddles* until there are enemies in the area to attack which will help with performance.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Anti-dragging out defense missions: Warframe melee strikes on tentacles causes them to drop their target for you to kill. Only default strikes work, not slide attacks. Too many whip & polearm macro users for 4 to ever work otherwise. @Vorcov
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Synergy & support allies with range: Enemies that are prone when tentacles grab them are held in place, being crushed instead of being slammed against the floor.  @RudyBojangles
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Self-positioning: Tentacle Swarm relocates to where an enemy is if it doesn't damage anyone for 2 seconds. This is very similar to World On Fire except the tentacles don't select a new target 'til their target is dead. We got it! @OceanTempest @Bouldershoulder @NovaBlue353 @Marbelik
  Clarification: They don't relocate outside of the range Tentacle Swarms AOE is.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Loot & spy utility: If there are no enemies to target, tentacles will break objects.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Toughen: Hydroids tentacles have collision for enemy projectiles. Grenades are bounced back, rockets are detonated.
  It fits with DEs idea of his abilities being random in effectivity & would grant his CC some defensive capabilities which is welcome for such a squishy Warframe.
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Scaling: Deals 2% of enemy health every second, scaling with power strength. @Meneliki @Somb3rBivalve @Azamagon @morningstar999 @Riot_Inducer @sappinmahsentry 
• 200% Power Strength isn't hard to hit and would bring it to 4% meaning you deal 80% of enemies damage over 20 seconds on just 100 duration. Normally you'd have more duration than 100.

Thanks to, discussed by & inspired by:


@MissMarifire
@Grinmeister
@Somb3rBivalve
@Noabettiet
@Coverop 
@xShadowsaur 
@Grafurn 
@DarkG7 
 

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Navarchus
REWORK IS P GOOD EDITION

[(PSN)D-MASS57]

All really good ideas and points. Very solid input and arguments and does make me think twice about his armor buff I mentioned in my post earlier today.

[Navarc]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)D-MASS57 said:

All really good ideas and points. Very solid input and arguments and does make me think twice about his armor buff I mentioned in my post earlier today.

It's a very common and reasonable solution to the problem he has, but I just felt it didn't fit and it took me a while to figure out an alternative that might be as good if not better depending on situation. I'm glad you like this, let me know if you have anything you'd like to add or alter!

[Dwarcx]

I think Hydroid really really needs a buff. As of right now there is zero to none incentive for me to play as him. I haven't even crafted him because of where he stands right now.

[Noabettiet]

Something i forgot to add, you guys should keep an open mind for suggestions. 
The warframe has a LOT of short comings, that was a single change (although nice), that just means that he stepped from nothing to a one trick pony. 

Read the whole topic a few times, it is a lot to absorb and understand. It is actuality full of pretty awesome ideas and fun at that.
Which is something the warframe lacks the most.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Noabettiet

[MissMarifire]

1 minute ago, Noabettiet said:

Something i forgot to add, you guys should keep an open mind for suggestions. 
The warframe has a LOT of short comings, that was a single change (although nice), that just means that he stepped from nothing to a one trick pony. 

Read the whole topic a few times, it is a lot to absorb and understand. It is actuality full of pretty awesome ideas and fun at that.
Which is something the warframe lacks the most.

^ This. It takes quite a bit to read through, but just because it's a lot doesn't mean you should disregard it. My only current suggestion for @Navarchus is that he should go through and put everything under spoilers to make it more neater and readable, and maybe even take a step further by highlighting main points of each change and addition. I feel that may make it less daunting for readers.

[Navarc]

Just now, MissMarifire said:

^ This. It takes quite a bit to read through, but just because it's a lot doesn't mean you should disregard it. My only current suggestion for @Navarchus is that he should go through and put everything under spoilers to make it more neater and readable, and maybe even take a step further by highlighting main points of each change and addition. I feel that may make it less daunting for readers.

I had avoided using spoilers because two of my pals who use chrome can't open spoilers & have to quote a post to see what's inside but rethinking it now, it's a very small minority and that minority does have a workaround for the issue so I think I'll make it more convenient for everyone like you suggest.

[Noabettiet]

Also you guys shouldn't bring up an augment as a fix, that is .. that is just wrong.

Augments aren't meant to fix warframes, they are meant to "augment" existing warframes.

[Navarc]

5 minutes ago, Noabettiet said:

Also you guys shouldn't bring up an augment as a fix, that is .. that is just wrong.

Augments aren't meant to fix warframes, they are meant to "augment" existing warframes.

I fully agree that augments shouldn't be obligatory to make a Warframe worth playing. I feel like it is becoming too problem that buffs are coming in mods rather than innate in a system or weapon, like combo duration only being viable with mods to extend it.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

9 minutes ago, Noabettiet said:

The warframe has a LOT of short comings, that was a single change, although nice, that just means that he stepped from nothing to a one trick pony.

He's had multiple recent changes since Glast Gambit, which is when I started him regularly. In recent times, he's definitely one of my 3 most used warframes.

5 minutes ago, Noabettiet said:

Also you guys shouldn't bring up an augment as a fix, that is .. that is just wrong.

Augments aren't meant to fix warframes, they are meant to "augment" existing warframes.

Also, I partially disagree. I don't think they should be almost required mods, but to rather fix shortcomings in certain situations. For example, like how Hallowed Reckoning essentially fixes Reckoning's issue with damage, past star chart level, while without the augment, the ability still good for other reasons.

[Noabettiet]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

Also, I partially disagree. I don't think they should be almost required mods, but to rather fix shortcomings in certain situations. For example, like how Hallowed Reckoning essentially fixes Reckoning's issue with damage, past star chart level, while without the augment, the ability still good for other reasons.

That is kinda like going to a restaurant, order a specific meal and then being required to pay again to eat the meal you ordered at the start.

Basically I meant that they shouldn't fix any shortcomings at all, that would make them ALMOST essential to have mods.
My opinion though, i don't know what intend was from the devs, but for me, i personally think they should be mods that spice up gameplay and build variety, rather than give band-aid fixes.

[KX297]

This is actually REALLY good. Many, many excellent ideas regarding a rather underwhelming Warframe.

Excellent post. Very well formatted, thought out, and I really like how you credited those that helped!

Hydroid has always been one of my least favorite frames due to his multitude of unfortunate issues. (Also, a tad bit because I dislike his appearance).

+1

(+10000 in spirit)

Hope our Pirate frame gets some love following the Deer God.

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by KX297

[Navarc]

3 minutes ago, KX297 said:

This is actually REALLY good. Many, many excellent ideas regarding a rather underwhelming Warframe.

Excellent post. Very well formatted, thought out, and I really like how you credited those that helped!

Hydroid has always been one of my least favorite frames due to his multitude of unfortunate issues. (Also, a tad bit because I dislike his appearance).

+1

(+10000 in spirit)

Hope our Pirate frame gets some love following the Deer God.

 

Thank you man, really appreciate it. I was pretty concerned at first with how the posts were turning out but positives are outnumbering the negatives right now.

With hydroids toggle being a proper toggle since it's one of the first warframes to get toggles as we know them now I do think these changes would also not break any builds like Oberons rework broke the negative duration & strength builds. So that's also a big positive if he was reworked.

[Navarc]

1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

Given if Oberon Prime gets skipped over because of the absolute 'meh' reception other than a few diehard apologists and or people that will thank DE for even a few scraps thrown their way Hydroid is most likely the relief hitter to step up until the collective 'eeeeeh' dies down. I'm glad someone is looking at how to improve hydroid at a systematic and base level not only looking at wehre he is now, but looking at how he used to be under older systems. I've gotta admit I just can't get my head around how to best use Hydroid as currently his CC is scattershot at best and his big use DEPENDS on him having pilfering swarm equipped.

You have my support, if not my understanding of how best to contribute beyond overall positivity this exists.
 

Yeah, the fact that you can perfectly aim at an enemy & pay your energy then your ability entirely misses dealing any damage to the enemy is something I'm trying to combat with the energy refunds for casting abilities that don't deal enemy damage.

This also allows people to use them for mobility & breaking open containers without having to worry about saving energy which does fit the theme!

[Trash_Frame]

pls DE fix my husband

The suggestions here are great and I'd love to have (atleast) some applied into the game, despite the tendency of it being slightly altered.

[Iccotak]

I just don't like the way he looks. He looks like he is wearing multiple layers of clothes that would severely impede his ability to flow through the water. I think the Pirate theme works for Deluxe skins but has no place in the actual warframe design. Also Why the Eyepatch? It makes no sense

[Navarc]

1 hour ago, Iccotak said:

I just don't like the way he looks. He looks like he is wearing multiple layers of clothes that would severely impede his ability to flow through the water. I think the Pirate theme works for Deluxe skins but has no place in the actual warframe design. Also Why the Eyepatch? It makes no sense

I'm sure that someday in a few years we'll see a deluxe skin for him, until then you'll have to settle, man.
So you don't mind how how he functions at all?

Edited May 11, 2017 by Navarchus

[Iccotak]

1 minute ago, Navarchus said:

I'm sure that someday in a few years we'll see a deluxe skin for him, until then you'll have to settle, man.
So you don't mind how how he functions at all?

Never played him because I don't like his design. 
I am sure he will be addressed after Oberon Prime release. Gotta make Hydroid viable for Prime too ya know

[Noabettiet]

4 hours ago, Iccotak said:

I just don't like the way he looks. He looks like he is wearing multiple layers of clothes that would severely impede his ability to flow through the water. I think the Pirate theme works for Deluxe skins but has no place in the actual warframe design. Also Why the Eyepatch? It makes no sense

Considering that the lore sort of implies that warframes have some sort of connection with the infested tissue and whatnot, you could say that every warframe is distinguishable because it was simply an aesthetic choice by the orokin. It pays no logic or practicability. 

Armor suit aside, you can disband any belief when you consider that warframe is in a very stylized sci-fi setting. Plus, his ability also isn't the one to flow through water, fyi. (rather become water itself).

On 5/11/2017 at 1:42 AM, Navarchus said:

Yeah, the fact that you can perfectly aim at an enemy & pay your energy then your ability entirely misses dealing any damage to the enemy is something I'm trying to combat with the energy refunds for casting abilities that don't deal enemy damage.

This also allows people to use them for mobility & breaking open containers without having to worry about saving energy which does fit the theme!

or they could just make the hitboxes larger enough to hit the target in the selected radius, i guess. 

[Iccotak]

1 minute ago, Noabettiet said:

Considering that the lore sort of implies that warframes have some sort of connection with the infested tissue and whatnot, you could say that every warframe is distinguishable because it was simply an aesthetic choice by the orokin. It pays no logic or practicability. 

Armor suit aside, you can disband any belief when you consider that warframe is in a very stylized sci-fi setting. Plus, his ability also isn't the one to flow through water, fyi. (rather become water itself).

Eh, It's just my personal taste. I am sure I will eventually try him.
I don't suggest that DE change his look because I am sure that there are others who like him the way he is.

[Noabettiet]

Just now, Iccotak said:

Eh, It's just my personal taste. I am sure I will eventually try him.
I don't suggest that DE change his look because I am sure that there are others who like him the way he is.

nah its fine
i also don't dig the super glossy skin and huge &#! shoulders.

everyone has its tastes and i can imagine how hard it was for DE to make an pirate in a game with the slogan "ninjas play free".

[Buddhakingpen]

On 5/10/2017 at 2:00 PM, Koliii said:

it doesnt matter if he is viable or not....

most ppl dont even consider playing that frame which imo is a clear indicator that he is in a bad spot right now. he is just boring to play with.

changes to him are needed so better contribute to it

 

 

People not playing something does NOT indicate what kind of spot a frame is in. All it takes is studying how the community acts and responds to things to know your statement isnt true. 

Banshee. Has had no fundamental changes outside of the very recent duration buff on her 3, easily top 3 best scaling frames in the game, and before her resonating quake augment came out, she was the single least used frame in the entire game. Mind you, resonating quake is literally hitting 4 and watching your energy meter... thats "fun"? Yet thats what it took to get her to be used. Even then, only in niche situations. 

Excal- Pre rework, had a radial blind with no LoS cap, making it one of, if not the single best cc in the entire game. For damn near 2 years, the community called him a bad frame, only meant for noobs. Then they all noticed how good 2 was, spammed him, and he was nerfed into the ground in just a couple months before he got a rework

Mag-Pre-current-rework she could have always been one shotting high level fodder with shields. Community called her trash. Then sorties came out. Community still hated her. Then people ran into corpus sorties. A couple youtube videos later, and she was a guaranteed find in any corpus sortie. Post current rework, had some of the highest damage potential in the game and could kill nullifiers with her 3<2 combo, yet the community called her trash.

Remember Ash? How before his 4 rework you would see one every game? Literally nothing about his kit changed except his 2 becoming 1 handed and his 4, but the moment a simple point and click aoe ult got 'nerfed', he almost fell off the face of the earth. 

People not playing something has no bearing on whether or not its good, viable, designed well, or any of that. The community doesnt even care about if something is fun or not (see banshee).They want power. Efficient, easy to play, power. Thats it. So since thats all people want, whats to stop all of us from saying "we want a frame that can 1 hit kill everything in an aoe that scales and is immortal." People would surely use it. So does that mean its "in a good spot"? Being immortal and able to 1 hit everything in an aoe doesnt seem a bit unbalanced to you? I mean, it is still a game at the end of the day. We shouldnt just want a "free win" button. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Buddhakingpen

[qiusef]

what a great suggestion! Kudos to you and whomever helped you out! 

Hydroid is a good frame, but sadly his abilities beside his 4 kinda meh. I use him, mainly for farming pair him with sonar banshee = loots galore! 

i'm truly sorry if i can't make any suggestion with deep-analytic-thought, it's because i am just a casual player who just want to have fun. But from what i read, your suggestion is so great and well written :D Hope DE pick it up to alter Hydroid in the future.  

[Navarc]

7 minutes ago, qiusef said:

what a great suggestion! Kudos to you and whomever helped you out! 

Hydroid is a good frame, but sadly his abilities beside his 4 kinda meh. I use him, mainly for farming pair him with sonar banshee = loots galore! 

i'm truly sorry if i can't make any suggestion with deep-analytic-thought, it's because i am just a casual player who just want to have fun. But from what i read, your suggestion is so great and well written :D Hope DE pick it up to alter Hydroid in the future.  

Any and all support is welcome, man. I really appreciate it, thank you. 
But yeah I'm really hoping they add more functionality and QOL improvements to his existing abilities rather than delete & replace his existing abilities.
I know there's a good amount of people who just want an exalted weapon for every single warframe but I feel like that really limits the style of the warframe but making it only excel with one type of weapon.
 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Navarchus

[KX297]

I shared this post in my clan's Discord server!

They really approved of some of your ideas and proposed additions!

Just thought I'd tell you that. ( :

Keep up the good work!

(Don't know why people are being negative about this. None of these proposed changes would fundamentally impact the way he is played, nor make him overpowered, nor alter who the frame 'is' character wise. They would just make him more interesting and fun).