There's hope for Mag!!

[Hypernaut1]

i spoke with Scott at tennocon and he agreed that Mag needs a buff and polish to her kit. He says he's looking at shield polarize and its interaction with the new shield gating mechanic. I kind of was leading him though, so take that with a grain of salt. But at least he acknowledged that she is being looked at!

[djternan]

On topic, I'd like a way to manually detonate the Magnetize bubbles without the band-aid augment.  Her 1 and 4 seem a bit too similar since neither deals all that much damage and both ragdoll enemies.  I saw another post that suggested allowing Crush to break Magnetize bubbles and liked that idea.

Edited July 10, 2017 by D20
Deleting removed post.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

All mag needs is some QoL to her 1 that lets us pull into magnetize, faster casting for her 4, and a buff to her energy pool. That's it. 

[Hypernaut1]

I main Mag and do extremely well with her...she can still use some polish to her kit. You "lol" as if shes some OP frame, shes far from that.

People posting for entire reworks are going to be disappointed. He didnt seem to be talking about a major rework at all, more just a buff to her polarise in conjunction with shield gating.

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i spoke with Scott at tennocon and he agreed that Mag needs a buff and polish to her kit. He says he's looking at shield polarize and its interaction with the new shield gating mechanic.

Hey, that's pretty cool! All I really hope for with Mag is to bring some more synergy into Crush. I really don't think she needs a buff, but I'll happily accept whatever makes her stronger (as long as she doesn't reach cheese levels again).

Edited July 9, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[motorfirebox]

I wouldn't be mad about a Mag buff, but she really doesn't need it.

[Vafthrudnir]

Mag doesn't need buffs, she needs rebalance on her 1 and 4, which may get buffed.

Edited July 9, 2017 by giovanniluca

[DreamsmithJane]

7 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You "lol" as if shes some OP frame, shes far from that.

I wouldn't say "OP", but she's definitely one of the strongest damage frames in the game, and far from the top of the list when it comes to frames that need buffs.

[LuckyCharm]

My problem with mag is her immobility for the most part. It feels like most times when i go to crush i get locked in place for what feels like forever, and am unable to cancel it when random moas or whatever start blasting me as soon as they spawn or walk into the room. That and the fact Pull just randomly throws enemies in your general direction rather than pulling them to you. It used to do that before its rework and it made her one of my fav frames. Until it was changed

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Abilitys may be strong as they are but playing her is more or less impossible... her main damage sorce is a stationary power sink that needs strategic planing and lots of luck to become viable aoe. She is neather tanky enough, nor possesses the tools to sustain this and the extra orbs on (!) pull kills hardly contribute to this in any way. You're bound to rely on plates without a full set of arcane energizes (what's quite a thing to have, given the prices and the popularity of archwings). Not to mention her overall mortality with the but light Cc, low health pool and shield constant (sustaining those with a third ability isn't any good eather!). Her build? Requires relatively high strength, definitly max efficiency, high range and somewhat high duration due to the way her abiltys are set... Magnetize underperforms if you're missing any of those and polarize needs high duration too...

 

The pre LoS greedy pull at least made using her Cc at all somewhat desireable but she's on lost ground the way she is now, beein bound to way too much ability input for too little effect.

Edited July 10, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108
Mixed up stuff

[LascarCapable]

Thread clearned from the few unconstructive and obnoxious posts.

This is great news to hear. Shield Polarize should definitely do a better job at wrecking enemy shields and armor considering the fact that it's now a shadow of its former self : what it used to do extremely good but limited to a single faction got extended to more faction but utterly butchered in efficiency in the process. D:

Crush should also get a look at. The ability alone is far from being helpful. I mean, despite the interactions added during Mag's rework, this is by far one of the most outdated ultimate powers in the game, only able to damage enemy and just pulls out a knockdown as a way of CC. There's a not of Warframes that brings much more on the table than Mag.

Magnetize can be extremely deadly with the right weapon tho, but that doesn't excuse the fact that two power out of four are considered almost useless. The interactions with this skill are also not worth it. Who would attempt to kill an enemy under magnetize with pull ? It takes years if the enemy has a decent level. Same thing applies to the magnetize + crush combo : more unscaling damage isn't worth it. And the armor shards mechanic of Shield Polarize is extremely underwhelming as well : they will only add a pityful amount of damage to magnetize. Mag was reworked to get a lot of damage interactions between her powers, yet all of her interactions are so underwhelming in damage it's not even worth it against a level 20 enemy. There's a major issue here.

Edited July 10, 2017 by D20

[blacklusterseph]

Whatever Scott does I hope it relates to making alternative builds a bit more viable. Personally I love Crush and what it is meant to do, so it would be cool if there was a way to make it worth it to use one stuff stronger than low level mobs. (kinda like Fire Quake gives Ember some strong CC later) Right now it feels like if you don't build for long range, long duration magnetize spam, you are wasting your time.

[Azamagon]

Mag's onehanded casting on #1-3 was a great upgrade to her, but yes, she still needs tweaks. Mainly, make each ability have a distinct role (WITHOUT augments).

But before talking about Mag, some ideas that popped up in my mind as general changes:

* Magnetic procs should do something interesting to ANY enemy. Like, disables ability useage and/or decreases accuracy and/or greatly slows the target's movement down and/or some other interesting kind of debuff.
* Puncture procs not only reduce the damage an enemy deals, it also increases how much the damage target suffers, from all sources!
* Enemy defenses: Corpus have shields. Grineer have armor. Infested have ... nothing. Maybe they could get some interesting defensive mechanism too (along with making their auras less obnoxious ofc)? Like Carapace. How I'd suggest Carapace;

Carapace is like a hybrid of shields and armor: Like shields, it is a seperate "health"-layer, which is ablative but also regenerates if not hurt for a while. Like armor, it is hurt ALONG with health and reduces damage taken to real health. Unique to Carapace; This defense is entirely circumventable by attacking in different areas of their body.
I think that'd be an interesting defense mechanism for Infested, no? *shrugs*

Now, all abilities/augments that currently reduce armor (such as Mag's very own Fracturing Crush) is about reducing ALL those enemy defenses (armor, shields and "carapace"). This makes those augments more generally viable, not just pidgeonholed for specific factions/bossfights.

And now back to Mag.
I feel that each of her ability should have a more distinct focus. Sorry for doing one of those "tweak all abilities"-thing, but I'd just REALLY like to show some of my latest ideas for her (which goes hand in hand with the "defense"-changes and proc-changes):

Passive

• Hardened Shields - Armor applies to her shields, and her shields will not be ignored by otherwise shieldpiercing damage (Finisher damage (which slashprocs consist of) and Toxic damage)

Pull

• Brings in enemies more neatly, a couple of meters in front of her, rather than just randomly flinging them
• Now brings Polarize shards in to Mag (more to shards later, on Polarize)
• Augment: Now also rips away the magazines from ranged enemies, forcing them to reload (once they stand up) and grants a random ammo-pickup per enemy. Either restricted to 1 magazine per enemy, or possibly that If the enemy reloads, you can pull out another magazine!

Magnetize

• Bubbles can be deactivated by default (no need for the augment)
• Enemies who suffer from Magnetic procs are pulled in with WAY more force towards the centre.
• Augment: If it is to stay as it is (manual deactivation aside), I'd let it be doubled in disarmchance (100% at max rank) and unaffected by Power Strength. Personally, however, I find the augment unfitting for her, but can't think of a better change for it right now.

Polarize

• More focus on debuffing enemy defenses (Shields for Corpus, Armor for Grineer, whatever new thing for Infested)
• All struck targets suffer a Magnetic proc too.
• Shards created now have multiple purposes:
  • For her passive/defenses - When Mag walks over a shard, or if it is pulled to her via Pull, it starts orbitting her. A shard orbitting her grants her a small flat amount of armor (both for her shields and armor, due to her passive!), but each enemy attack also destroys such a shard. How many shards she can pick up at once should probably be limitted (to remove potential "invincibility" and visual clutter).
  • For Magnetize - Shards pulled into Magnetize bubbles (done either by casting Magnetize where shards are nearby, and/or by using Pull to drag them in) fuels Magnetize's bubble, similar to now. Could potentially pull off all orbitting shards from Mag too, if she walks into a Magnetize bubble if she has shards orbitting her.
  • For Crush - Shards nearby are added to the final attack of Crush, fuelling its damage. Could potentially pull off all orbitting shards from Mag too, to further fuel Crush if she has any orbitting her during the cast.
• Augment: Now creates additional (over)shields based on ANY defenses depleted (shields, armor, "carapace") and it does so for both Mag and her affected allies!

Crush

• Damage is now 50/50 Puncture/Magnetic
• The first two damage-instances forces a Puncture proc on the enemies (Remember the general change to Puncture, suggested above?)
• The final attack of Crush can be altered:
  • Doing nothing, leaves the attack as it is right now. This final attack now deals twice as much Magnetic+Puncture damage, and also causes a puncture-proc, but this proc is twice as potent and last twice as long as normal! (So, 60% damage weakening/amp and lasts for 12 seconds)
  • Holding the attack button (Mouse 1), instead causes her to try to smash together all enemies in front of her on the final attack. This final attack still deals the Magnetic damage-component, but deals no base Puncture damage. Instead, it causes Puncture damage based on the amount of enemies smashed together (no bonus at all if it's just a single enemy). Corpses counts for this too, and are now always picked up (at any moment of the cast). So this attack is best used if you have multiple enemies and/or corpses picked up (as the standard attack might deal more damage when you have picked up few enemies)
  • Holding the aim button (Mouse 2), instead causes her to fling all lifted enemies towards the aimed direction on the final attack. This attack doesn't deal the normal Magnetic+Puncture damage nor does it cause a Puncture-proc, but instead causes enemies to suffer flat Impact damage when they land, both to themselves and to any enemy they might collide with during their flight. This move is more meant for relocating enemies (rather than for damage), preferrably moved towards Magnetize bubbles...
  • Regardless of which final attack is done, all Polarize shards in the area (and/or carried by Mag) are added to fuel the damage of the chosen final attack. Damagebonus is based on the armor/shields/"carapace" drained, and is dealt as Puncture damage (or Slash-procs?).
• Augment: Now temporarily reduces not only armor, but also shields and "carapace".

There ya go! A real force to be reckoned with!

Edited July 10, 2017 by Azamagon

[DreamsmithJane]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Passive

• Hardened Shields - Armor applies to her shields, and her shields will not be ignored by otherwise shieldpiercing damage (Finisher damage (which slashprocs consist of) and Toxic damage)

Just want to say, I have been opposed to most suggested changes to Mag that I've seen since her rework, but overall, I like what you're doing here, especially with this and the change to Polarize and Infested defenses. The fact that her shields lose to Frost Prime has always bugged me. And now we have Harrow, and two factions with toxin damage. The release of the Nox was effectively a nerf to shields, and Mag got bumped even further down the "best shields" list.

[AcceptYourDeath]

I like her kit but it still needs a buff an slight overhaul in general. DE has gone for more interaction between skills with most reworks lately. Like Mag, Saryn and Oberon but they are always so convervative with their numbers.  

Mag`s shrapnels do little to no damage on higher levels, Oberons Armor buff is meaningless on higher levels. For what its worth they could have kept the old kits when it is only about blowing up some lvl 30-ish enemys. The old kits were fine for that. What I don`t get is when all these new ideas and in-between effects get pointless and fall flat against lvl 50, 80 enemys. All that effort to reduce Mag to her bubbles for the most part, because all that "extra-nonsense" does "%&/ against proper enemys. 

Basically ALL pure damage numbers on many Warframe skills is a somewhat dated concept. See also 1# skills on a variety of Warframes. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by AcceptYourDeath

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

On 9/7/2017 at 6:45 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

i spoke with Scott at tennocon and he agreed that Mag needs a buff and polish to her kit. He says he's looking at shield polarize and its interaction with the new shield gating mechanic. I kind of was leading him though, so take that with a grain of salt. But at least he acknowledged that she is being looked at!

Bless you !!!

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

IMO she only needs a few touch ups:

~pulling an enemy into magnatize actually gets them stuck into it.

~polarize itself will probably be good as is if the shield gating mechanic is added in properly.  like how ME3 does it.

~give her a bigger energy pool.  PLEASE.

~And regarding her ult.  it either needs to do the same damage across all factions.  and/or make it so she does increased damage to enemies she's polarized.  If they want to keep it as is they need to make the cast time faster by default and reduce the standard cost of the ultimate as well.  as right now it's 100% used for cc.  paying that much just for minor cc isn't worth it.

[motorfirebox]

Regarding the pulling effect of Magnetize, how about this: if you cast Pull on a Magnetize bubble (that is, if the bubble intersects your Pull cone), the Pull is instead transferred to the bubble. So if you use Pull on a Magnetize bubble, instead of yanking enemies towards you the bubble yanks enemies towards itself. If your Pull intersects more than one bubble, only the closest one works.

[P0Pz]

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 8:28 AM, D20 said:

Thread clearned from the few unconstructive and obnoxious posts.

This is great news to hear. Shield Polarize should definitely do a better job at wrecking enemy shields and armor considering the fact that it's now a shadow of its former self : what it used to do extremely good but limited to a single faction got extended to more faction but utterly butchered in efficiency in the process. D:

Well not exactly...

Polarize;

Is a support skill. All side effects within, supports mag or mag+team. It slithly debuffs (not mags core debuffing), refreshes shields (team core support) and supports her (2) with HIGH burst damage (core selfe support) in a 80m radius 😲.

Everyone talks about Polarize is Mags debuffing skill.. which it is NOT!

Mags Magnetize is her CORE DEBUFFing tool. Standing arround for 20sec. Which is great to feed with her ultimate tool "Pull".

Magnetize repeats any shots within the bubble endless as long the duration lasts. Procing bullets will proc again. Corro procing bullets will proc again. Ergo. Nonstop debuffing for 20sec. With some weapons you need only 2-3 shots to gain INSTA armor rip status at any lvl 140. Very energy effi. And any following or fresh spawning enemy steping inside or pulled in (even flying through the bubble gets INSTA ripped of.

Back to Polarize...

What a lot do not know or forget..

Polarize (mag's core selfe support) is supporting Magnetize after it ripped of armor or/and shields. How?

Any total missing deff-stats (Armor or shields) is multiplied by Polarize's multi. And realrase a burst AoE dmg, arround the drained target when touched by the puls. Bulked up targets or close standing targets that got drained can hit eachother with theire max missing drained deff stats. Which can create a "chain reaction" which leads to insta kill chains sometimes. 

THIS is the best insta own dmg selfe support in hole WF.

Excamble.:

You have 3 Magnetize bubbles up (very often). You feed all 3 with corro procs and dmg (maybe ur team too).

You pull, from all 4 wind directions, enemies in. Every bubble should have at least 6-10 enemies sucked in. At lvl 140 they got like 14k armor (Grineer; which is NOW Mag's core target, one of the best frames to go against). I got 3,6 multi at Polarize in my Magnetize build. 

Which means 18k x 3,6 = 64,8k burst dmg AoE releasing by this 1 guy. Sound zero OP.

add in 5-10 close standing drained targets in each bubbles + this drained burst dmg can hit 'body weakpoints'.

1 Magnetize bubble gets supportive damage by her (3):

5 Targets: 324k  - 10 Targets: 648k

Dont forget EACH of the targets get this damage which is total damage done:

5 Targets: 1,2 mil - 10 Targets: 2,4 mil dmg

5-10 targets in 1 bubble. Now count in 3 bubbles: 3,6mil - 7,2mil damage done pressing one single button. Effective right? 

The more enemies increase in lvl and therefore theire armor...the more max missing armor they have ... the more increases the damage support from Polarize. 

And Mag's Drained deff-stats AoE burst damage, is 'Magnetic elemental damage'. 

Mag gets stronger the more enemies scale up in any regions.

Polarize is GREAT. Magnetize is GOD LIKE. Pull is Mag's longer arm of justice and one of the best DISARMING skills InGame while able to move targets in a direction as the 'user' wishes to. Anyone know 'how strong' THIS already is? It doesn't need to do damage. It takes a hole army down and drags it to a direction you want. The only point it needs changed is its energy-orb 'on kill' drop effect switched with 'if touched by pull' got a % chance to drop energy orbs. Pull is awesome!

Crush...HERE we find a lot MAG's kit and agile playstyle DON'T work with. Every skill in her kit, can stand alone and works with her core skill 'Magnetize'.

Crush fits nowhere in and feels total outlandish. For me Crush is useless and can get deleted. Idk. Recreate a better skill for her 4.

And comon...IMPROVE mag's passive... the current one is so usefull as if it would help me clean my shoes before i move out into battle. It is as worse as trinity's!

 

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 8:28 AM, D20 said:

Crush ✔ check...yes needs def. Hard Improvments!

 

- Change drop energy-orbs drops by touching target(s) with Pull.

- Better passive for Mag. A real one please.

- Increase her max energy-pool.

- Crush; improving or recreating to work for her agile playstyle and kit.

She is almost perfect!

Her Pull Aug is great! Polarize aug is oookay. Crush aug..well...crush it. 

The worst Aug is the new one with disarming...its killing her core skill almost TOTALY. Nogo to use.

GG

[Aimop95]

Well, at the least we know that they think about Mag. That's hope enough for me.

[malekas]

I reserve judgement until i see something.

 

As much as DE loves to nerf Mag, they may be thinking of nerfing Polarize out of some deluded fear it would be too powerful with a shield gating mechanic. If all he said was they're looking at it, it may very well be a nerf.

[Grimmstyler]

Mag is fine.. except her armor could use a buff..

Fracturing Crush works great on Grineer.. 

Bullet attract is her best ability..

Polarize good for replenishing shields and depleting shields + armor.. Shield Transferance is a bit greedy compared to vampire leech..

Greedy Pull was great before they nerfed it, it just works for Mag now.. 

[Lorienzo]

I'd suggest having her 1 ragdoll and pull enemies over AS LONG AS THEY STILL HAVE SHIELDS. So now the we can have the older Mag CC back but not make it infinite and broken.

EDIT: PLUS, I think her Pull should also pull the shrapnel. This will make them more accessible to her Magnetize (2) and DE and us can save ourselves a load of processing power by having those shrapnel generated sitting there without use.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Lorienzo
SHRAPNELZ

[TMTrainer]

Mag is fine, except for Crush and perhaps Polarize damage. Crush needs to be scrapped or totally buffed, and Polarize could do with just a little more damage against shields and armor for higher level stuff.

Magnitize and Pull are actually borderline overpowered overpowered.

Edited July 14, 2017 by TMTrainer