Razorback auto health decay & concerns over DE's implementation of the event

[Cyriann]

Will you stop re-making that thread? 

I participated in a previous one you created on the exact same topic, so I'll tell you once again what I told you. 

They made a fail-safe to protect the sole relay that everyone has access to from the beginning destroying it would pose the problem of forcing player to wait long before accessing to it. 

They did not told us about it, why would we care, we saw it. Now we don't need to ponder over it as it is totally unnecessary as DE has other things to do than focus on a minor detail like this. 

[Shoelip]

2 minutes ago, Myscho said:

They realized destroying Larunda relay could lead to nasty and salty shtstorm from new players because it will kill progress for them (saturn junction at jupiter require new strange completed and next relay is saturn which is accessible after jupiter) and Relay rebuilding system is still not functional, so they dont have anything to back up missing relay

It seems a bit silly to think they wouldn't know this.  They made it that way.  If anything they just didn't anticipate the possibility of the Razorback not being destroyed before the timer because players wanted to see what would happen.  They obviously weren't going to let Larunda be taken.  We haven't lost a relay since Eyes of Blight and that one ended very conveniently with one relay each per tier on every platform.

[Maicael]

Or it could be damage capped to prevent it from disappearing too quickly. Could also be a leaking bucket type of implementation so that the initial rush of getting in your 3 runs still contributes to the overall destruction while at the same time giving other players time to attack.

[Shoelip]

So like... are the mods deleting the Tangent-Valley's posts or is he actually repeatedly saying "ploop"?

Edited September 5, 2017 by Shoelip

[Myscho]

1 minute ago, Shoelip said:

are the mods deleting the Tangent-Valley's posts

More like rename it, before was "the mess" now is "ploop"

[Letter13]

Similar threads merged & original starting post contents restored.

[-MortisThorne-]

*whispers*

(there's a reasoning behind there being a specific health decay, no one is lying to us or betraying us or any of this weird dramatic hoopla you're spouting. There are multiple important things on Larunda that would halt a newer player's progression through the junctions. They are already putting most of their focus on Plains and probably don't have the time to worry about bringing in a new way to let players progress in ways without Larunda. Not to mention it's famously the most populated relay by newbs and veterans alike and holds great significance in the community, mostly NA PC players. This isn't a government scandal. It's DE bringing us the Razorback as the invasions foretold, but added a twist to put us on the edge of our seats, by targeting the beloved Lewrunda. Conspiracy theories to this level are lame and you need to take a chill pill)

[LSG501]

I've likely said this earlier but they've all been merged and well I'm not going to go hunting for my posts...

As I said earlier I really don't care if the relay is or is not destroyed, in this case however it wasn't really on the cards after the dev's realised (I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot) it was needed for progression although I will say after 50 runs and not getting the one mod I needed I was ready to let the place burn due to the drop rates just out of spite.

I have more concern with the drop rates that the dev's use for this type of event.  Yes I know they want us do spend more than 10 runs on the thing to get everything we want but I ended up doing 75 runs, plus farming the alu which is ONLY available during the event, and still didn't come out with all the mods, I never had searing steel drop.  I literally did nothing but the razorback mission and salacia during the entire event while I was able to play the game, I met other people who had done 100 runs and were still missing one or more items... 

Now yes you'll use the argument of rng but we also know the drop rate was set at 1% and as usual a 'few' people managed to get all the mods really quickly but being 'forced' to repeat the same mission(s) over and over to get a mod (I had the others in around 25-30 runs) that is ONLY available via this mission an excessive amount of times is just stupid and has left a very sour taste in my mouth.  Yes an amount of farming/grinding is expected but it's the amount that some of us are having to do and it's not fun, isn't having fun the whole premise behind a game for a player.

The dev's have a working 'prototype' of a token system which was used to great effect during the ambulus rework event and I can't remember anyone having ANY complaints during that about how bad the drops were because we could do as much or as little as we wanted.  Why has this not been implemented for the razorback and fomorian. 

When the event eventually comes back I'm likely going to need to repeat the same repetitive and boring missions to try and get searing steel, made even worse by the fact I will only be after ONE mod (I managed to get at least one of all other mods AND I stopped counting gorgon wraith parts after the 8th full set...) which based on this event might not even drop.

 

Now if this was a one off I wouldn't be complaining but the last razorback I got ZERO puncture/archwing mods drop due to the toxin 60/60 mods, so you could add those onto this technically, the fomorian mission required me to do around 60 runs to get just 1 receiver (iirc, it was the part that was the rarest) and there was only 4 or 5 things dropping there.  I'm not after the mods/weapons to trade, I'm after the stuff for my own collection and use...

In your closed environment during the testing the drop rates you set might seem fine but try playing the game like we do, we can't play it all day long, we don't all have access to boosters and there is a reason we keep asking for a token system... we hate getting something we don't actually need. 

If the low drop rate is to try to 'encourage' us to buy plat and buy the item, then stick it in the market where we can buy it at a reasonable price instead.. like many others I'm not going to buy a mod from the market at over inflated prices because you made it stupidly hard to get, even more so when it's for archwing...it's not exactly a popular part of the game is it.  If anything being 'forced' to do excessive runs of something puts me off buying plat....

edit: and I just realised I didn't even mention the wasted resources, over the 75 runs it cost me over 110,000 polymer bundles.  Now I do have a small stockpile left and I can go farming again 110,000 polymer bundles is not exactly a small amount to replenish.

Edited September 5, 2017 by LSG501

[pooptaco]

(Is anyone else seeing this on page 1?  Huh.  What could it mean?)

[Coach-Aprax]

14 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

Labor day for the US lol

So, are you telling me that the majority of warframe players are from US? OK!

[Kalvorax]

1 hour ago, Coach-Aprax said:

So, are you telling me that the majority of warframe players are from US? OK!

eh...most of them didnt have school or work for that matter during the hours i was on and i saw it go down quite quickly heh..doesnt need to be a majority lol

[Knight_Ex]

So I can't be the only one that wanted to see the relay fall, and it was looking that way until from Sunday to monday about almost 50% of the razorback was suddenly diminished, this has happened before when the percentage suddenly makes a drastic jump to ensure that it will be defeated, not sure if its automatic or DE manually goes in and changes the value but I'm sure someone can compare the numbers of players playing during that time, not to mention you have to factor in the amount of progress needed to take part in the event, archwing and all that jazz.  If DE doesn't want to create a restore the relays event they should just come out and say it, don't give players like myself the false hope of believing if they don't do the event the razorback will destroy the relay.  Those of you unaware if another relay gets destroyed then we will get a special event to restore the previously destroyed relays.  I for one would like that, even some of the warframe youtubers were routing for the relay to be destroyed,  then again maybe there was some miracle...again...and the relay just suddenly got a huge surge of players at the last minute to finish it off, the numbers don't really support that though.    I see a mod decided it fit to DELETE my thread without INFORMING me and add it to this one which doesn't have as much impact now.   GG moderators.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Knight_Ex
Moderator salt

[Chipputer]

19 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

doesn't have as much impact now

You noticed the same exact thing as the person who made the thread your stuff got moved to. It has the exact same impact as before.

[Nez-Kal]

So, it's a well known fact that DE changes the numbers all the time. Sometimes for Weapon Stats, sometimes for Drop Tables, and they do this with Reason. To make a more Balanced and Enjoyable gaming experience for all of us who play their game. When DE changes numbers, well, they typically list these changes in Patch Notes, and Hot Fixes, for all Public Eyes to see.

 

But what about the numbers they change that they Don't inform us about? Examples being Riven Disposition for things like the Nami Skyla, which was adjusted, but for some reason, never posted. Or the most recent addition, The Auto-Health-Decay on the Razorbacks recently.

 

Did DE have good reason to change these numbers without informing us? I suppose, yes. The Dispositions to create Balance without stirring up unnecessary Salt on the Forums. I mean, nothing says "Dump your Salt Here!" like a big ol' "We technically Nerfed Something, but it honestly probably don't involve or effect you in anyway" sign. People just want to complain. And the Health Decay? Well, it's not like we could just Lose Laruna, come one, y'all. They buffed the Health for us, we didn't play, so they siphoned it off for us.

 

My question is though, where is the line? You can excuse behavior for the developers, but when is secret number adjusting and "Stealth Nerfs" okay, and when does it become not okay?

Edited September 5, 2017 by Tangent-Valley

[SDGDen]

well technically warframe is in active development so everything is subject to change. they are under no obligation whatshowever to keep anything like it is. exept for the founders program. which is under contract. meaning if they where to rerelease any of it all the founders could sue DE.

[Hemmo67]

their game their decision

not community's

[Nez-Kal]

Just now, SupremeDutchGamer said:

well technically warframe is in active development so everything is subject to change. they are under no obligation whatshowever to keep anything like it is. exept for the founders program. which is under contract. meaning if they where to rerelease any of it all the founders could sue DE.

I'm not really talking about Changing the Numbers. I'm talking about when the Change them and do not record or publicly post it. The, as some might say, "Stealth Nerfs".

[SDGDen]

5 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

I'm not really talking about Changing the Numbers. I'm talking about when the Change them and do not record or publicly post it. The, as some might say, "Stealth Nerfs".

again. they have no obligation to tell us anything they changed.

[Somb3rBivalve]

Countless people in this thread have talked about how the Larunda relay is vital to new player progression, so I won't say what has already been said.

What I did want to talk about is how the OP talks about this supposed lack of transparency on DE's part. Even if this supposed health decay is real, there is no evidence to say that this was intended to be a stealth change or there was intended to be anything sneaky about it. Sometimes, developers make changes, but they simply don't make it into the patch notes for whatever reason (disorganization, forgetfulness, etc); if that were the case, DE certainly wouldn't be the first developer I've seen do that. In addition, a lack of response on this topic is also no indication of DE trying to be sneaky as they likely just got back from a 3-day weekend (Labor Day). Quite frankly, given the lack of verifiable information, people are making a much bigger deal out of this than they need to.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Somb3rBivalve

[-N7-Leonhart]

14 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

So, it's a well known fact that DE changes the numbers all the time. Sometimes for Weapon Stats, sometimes for Drop Tables, and they do this with Reason. To make a more Balanced and Enjoyable gaming experience for all of us who play their game. When DE changes numbers, well, they typically list these changes in Patch Notes, and Hot Fixes, for all Public Eyes to see.

 

But what about the numbers they change that they Don't inform us about? Examples being Riven Disposition for things like the Aklex, Nami Skyla, which were adjusted, but for some reason, never posted. Or the most recent addition, The Auto-Health-Decay on the Razorbacks recently.

 

Did DE have good reason to change these numbers without informing us? I suppose, yes. The Dispositions to create Balance without stirring up unnecessary Salt on the Forums. I mean, nothing says "Dump your Salt Here!" like a big ol' "We technically Nerfed Something, but it honestly probably don't involve or effect you in anyway" sign. People just want to complain. And the Health Decay? Well, it's not like we could just Lose Laruna, come one, y'all. They buffed the Health for us, we didn't play, so they siphoned it off for us.

 

My question is though, where is the line? You can excuse behavior for the developers, but when is secret number adjusting and "Stealth Nerfs" okay, and when does it become not okay?

It's exactly their policy that there are no "stealth nerfs" and any undocumented changes have to be considered bugs. That being said, maybe they missed some of the changes from the patch notes, it can happen.

Oh, and also:

"When a new weapon in a series comes out, some previous mechanics are refactored to maintain balance. With that said, the Aklex Riven Disposition has been changed from Strong to Neutral. As we’ve previously stated when Riven Mods were first introduced,
Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem.

We will continue to monitor this change and welcome your feedback!"

It seems to me that this Aklex change was properly documented on January 27 and as of now it still has 3/5 Disposition as it did then.....

Edited September 5, 2017 by -N7-Leonhart

[Nez-Kal]

1 minute ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

It's exactly their policy that there are no "stealth nerfs" and any undocumented changes have to be considered bugs. That being said, maybe they missed some of the changes from the patch notes, it can happen.

Oh, and also:

"When a new weapon in a series comes out, some previous mechanics are refactored to maintain balance. With that said, the Aklex Riven Disposition has been changed from Strong to Neutral. As we’ve previously stated when Riven Mods were first introduced,
Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem.

We will continue to monitor this change and welcome your feedback!"

It seems to me that this Aklex change was properly documented on January 27 and as of now it still has 3/5 Disposition as it did then.....

Thank you for this information, I will correct the Post.

[Tesseract7777]

So... here's the thing. You can cry "OMG we needz transparency!!!shiftplusone". But...

Larunda, as many have said ad nauseam, is far too important to allow it to die. We need at least one relay in the early planets for new players. Would be kind of bad to have that go (whether destroyed or commandeered and could permanently drive new players away even if it was quickly fixed with some kind of event. 

So what do you do? Make it have a health decay that looks somewhat natural to ensure it will be there almost to the end, but will disappear in time, and give people a sense of suspense. 

So now DE is in a tough position, because if they TELL people that, then people will have some of the magic ruined. Where's the immersion when you know that it doesn't matter either way? Doesn't feel so serious that way, does it? 

But then they also know their community goes nuts over transparency and supposed "stealth" changes. 

I'm not sure what I would do in their place to be honest, not an easy decision. 

Also, here is another thing to ponder: 

 

If DE has always secretly already decided the fate of relays (many people thought they had decided which ones to destroy long ago during Eyes of Blight and that it was all an illusion anyways), then there was never a "stealth change" because they never changed anything. It is a possibility they have always controlled the fate of the relays, because it is too important to the game mechanics and to their overall story and plans, to just allow our behavior to actually decide what happens to them. 

This kind of control of events is actually fairly common in video games, because studios want to have stuff planned out in advance for when the event ends, etc. And it is really costly if you have to have more than one ending prepared, because that affects everything and all your future plans. Devs don't want to put that kind of thing at the mercy of a mob of players. 

But some of you just want to ruin the immersion. If you force DE's hand here and force them to admit that events like this are semi-rigged, then you are ruining your own fun. Just stop worrying about it, it's not like they are doing something evil. Who cares? 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[CuChulainnWD]

It never ceases to amaze me the disgusting selfishness of some individuals. The cries on the NA Region chat to Rip Larunda, and let Larunda burn were silly.

Some have already pointed out the tinfoil hat conspiracy theory that the event was on a health decay is conjecture at best. The OP citing his observed and recorded findings and posting them in this thread as the hypothesis for his claim that the event was on a health decay.

The event started off slow on day one. It did look like we were falling behind schedule to complete the event. However experience has taught me not to count we the Tenno out.

I am speculating that the biggest salt mine to let Larunda burn comes south of the 49^th parallel, where no other country on this planet exist unless they are at war with them. The OP citing we had a long weekend with labour day, yes Canada celebrates labour day too, that the event should have been completed in short order.

As has been pointed out by others, the long weekend for North Americans might have meant we would spend time with our families, and take a day or two with them before committing to Warframe and the event. Could that possibly explain the slow start? Then the OP forgets that there are other nations/continents in this great big world of ours. Europe, Asia, South America, Oceania. The suden surge in decay couldn't possibly be due to their contribution could it? Nah of course not. Only the nation south of the 49th exists and does the work on events.

OP also forgets the salt poured on thick and heavy when the last event ended early, thus not letting some participate. DE responded by extending this event, whether by increasing the Armada Health or some other artificial means. Nor could it possibly be Labour day returnies adding their contribution too could it? Nah. It's better to let ones imagination run amock with DE conspiracies and lack of transparency. I hope DE does publish some numbers if only to point out your foolishness.

Seems to me DE is damned if they do and damned if they don’t? When everyone globally pitches in, I have seen events RIP in short order with similar decay rates that OP posted.

Regardless of whether DE had this event on a decay or not, it is ridiculous to complain about it, knowing the importance of the relay to our new Tenno. Not to mention the added work load that would ensue for DE whilst trying to get out new content such as PoE, Sacrifice, the Kingpin system etc. shipped.

Let’s not cut DE some slack. Instead pour on a ton more salt because DE would/might not have an adequate response to a destroyed/ commandeered relay. In the name of Science of course. Let’s not forget that these same individuals crying that Larunda should burn would be the same pouring on the salt when further delays to PoE, Sacrifice and other content got delayed.

Edited September 6, 2017 by CuChulainnWD

[VanLyrr]

9 hours ago, CuChulainnWD said:

- novelsized berating

Will you let the man have his research? He is gathering data to back up his claims and who knows maybe he is right. There's no point in name calling or putting him down with a cynical condescending post. 

 

Although you have a good point with the extending of events, i liked that argument.

Edited September 6, 2017 by VanLyrr

[Zahnny]

14 hours ago, Hemmo67 said:

their game their decision

not community's

Care to elaborate on why we should have no say?