Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!

[Wes8670]

I'd be interested to hear about anything on the Panthera as well, and to those who are debating the Panthera's alt fire it really is a tricky question though I'd consider it a continuous "beam" weapon, they could've worded the article to include the phrase continuous and we wouldn't have this issue. However I will point out the fact that when the alt fire is used the ammo does not continuously tick down lending itself to the non beam weapon side of things....until you realize that if you kill something fast enough you use a fraction of the ammo- thus it runs off of your good ol' fashion beam weapon/continuous weapon mechanics. Again, would like to see something on it besides people debating the trigger type considering the alt fire never got touched in the first batch and for a while on the other posts there was mention of it, only to go back and see that its been altered to only mention the primary fire....unless I'm remembering wrong which is entirely possible.

-Edit- Aside from all that, I've played for give or take 4 years so I've not had the experience of the old mechanics and am going to reserve judgement on it until I've actually had a chance with some of these changes. Probably keep my thoughts to myself though as everyone else is pretty good...again and again, at pointing out issues.

Something I also remember occurring at one point which is interesting, for a long while during kuva missions if I held down the alt fire on the Panthera the ammo continuously ticked down as if it were hitting something, probably because of how the kuva had to travel/ hit boxes or whatever, they fixed all that though but I hope this little tidbit also helps people understand how the alt fire works and why it -SHOULD- be listed in here, affected or no.

[Eldirian]

First Ember, now Ignis family. I guess it's nerf or nothing, right DE?

When will you nerf Opticor? People are having waaaay too much fun with it.

 

After the update I'll check if Cycron is still a disappointment to the Corpus.

[Khift]

1 hour ago, AlinaBee said:

Unless you are making the mechanics something amazing those look like NERFS numerically

WHATS GOING ON?

Every single weapon that people have cried 'nerf' on, after looking at the old DPS and the new DPS, has turned out to be either a buff or a wash.

The Amprex does 20% more damage now after accounting for Point Strike and Vital Sense (90% before that, but let's be real that's misleading). Yes, it lost crit. Yes, it lost some fire rate too. But it's base damage literally quadrupled.

The Convectrix does 1/4 the damage per shot, yes - but it shoots 4x as fast. The crit change ends up increasing its damage output by 8%.

The Atomos does 40% less damage per shot, but fires 40% faster. It actually doesn't budge at all on damage output.

The only weapon that actually appears to have lost damage output is the Synoid Gammacor, but even then I have to assume the fire rate and crit damage is the same as the regular Gammacor because they aren't listed in the post.

The range nerfs are actual nerfs, and should be looked at with suspicion and worry - but numerically, damage appears to be going up across the board for every weapon in this list. And that's not to mention status suddenly becoming a thing these weapons will be very, very good at.

[CeePee]

I'm very much against the massive range reduction for Ignis and Ignis wraith, from the old 40m down to 20m (27m) is way too much of a reduction given the minor damage increase with slower rate of fire. Scoliac slide attack with Primed Reach and a Range riven can already reach that.

Also Ignis losing the ability to quickly break containers through walls isn't to my liking. Ignis already has low damage and sacrificing damage mods for punch through doesn't help with that.

 

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

4 hours ago, Scaleguard said:

Opticor getting no changes?

It isn't a beam weapon, beam weapons are weapons that don't charge to fire a shot they simply are hold right trigger to fire them continuously.  Doesn't need a rework either, one of the best weapons in the game already despite not having a vandal or other variant.  

[thegamer118]

them synapse changes tho mama mia im ihnterested

[Futurehero]

Please strongly reconsider launching the Convectrix in this current state and do a more extensive rework on it.

The issue with the convectrix has nothing to do with its stats, but everything to do with its firing mechanics.

It does not function  as "a pair of laser scissors"  . Nobody toggles the beam in and out. Everyone uses it as a Flux Rifle 2.0.

 

 

As a personal suggestion, Consider the making  the secondary toggle between a "focused mode", and a "wide angle" mode.

Focused gives you more range and more damage.

Wide angle gives you a linear ~35 degree angle "line" of damage, with less range and less damage, but obviously more AOE, and possibly some more punchthrough. 

Aka, the difference  between killing elite infested, and waves of trash mobs.

Crappy ilustrated diagram ahead:

Focused mode:

       --

        ||

        ||

        ||

        ||

        ||

        ||

Wide angle mode:

-------------

  \          /

     \     /

        \/

     

[Ragingwasabi]

looking forward to these changes!

[iceyShardZ]

i'm ONLY okay with these changes to the glaxion if you are planning to release a glaxion vandal with more crit chance!!

also with this low of a crit chance you need to make it that it decays slower or grows to more than 100% damage

only saying that because it seems like all the other ones got crit buffs except for it! (although this status amount may be crazy good,would have to see,

definitely release glaxion vandal nontheless!!)

[Yuni_Hermit]

Well this looks great so far!

[TexRob]

Is it safe to say this was more about normalization than anything?  Just looking at a few, they seem to match up quite similarly.  Atomos for instance, was 5 rounds at 50 heat before, now it's 8 rounds (that cost only 4 rounds per second), at 29.  Went from 250 down to 232, but the crit and status went up, probably making it better in some builds, worse in others, but roughly the same.

As someone who has spent a lot of time with Amprex and has a 5 forma'd Atomos, I'm interested to see what's what.

Did I read this correctly that targeting will be easier now?  Sometimes it has trouble "finding" a target because it's such a direct line of sight calc.

[NinjaZeku]

Changes look ~neat overall (even if I'm not sure I can forgive you anytime soon for killing my 200% Crit on Amprex),
not least with that broken Status / second nonsense finally being removed (woo Ignis Wraith pwnage), except ...

Are you absolutely sure those beam ranges are fine? Like, for really reals?

I can understand limited range on AoE weapons like the Igniseses,
but Quanta Vandal should not be an exceptional outlier at 50m,
for "normal" beams, 30-40m at least should be the baseline
(or possibly even give them much further range but with damage falloff, or something).

Just gonna quote myself from a recent topic:

Quote

no, "bandaid Mods" like Sinister Reach (inb4 Primed versions) aren't really the solution,
they're nice to have as an option (not least to increase chaining range on Amprex / Atomos)
but having them be nigh-mandatory is something completely different, and wrong. IMO.

Hek Heck, Shotguns are the stereotypical "limited range" guns in videogames,
but those perform well enough at range in Warframe (lol Tigris Prime best Sniper),
how is it fair (or, fun) that a weapon type that doesn't deal nearly as much damage up close
actually becomes useless after a certain (small) distance?

_{And no, this does not mean it's time to nerf Shotguns instead :P}

[TheSteelRat]

4 hours ago, --Q--Nyu said:

Would help if you add the previous values, next to the new ones. 

This

[iceyShardZ]

not enough ammo per magazine in the glaxion!!

[Khift]

Okay. I went ahead and went through and catalogued all of the beam weapon damage, fire rate, and crit stats to determine baseline weapon DPS both with and without crit mods on the weapon. The "DPS" column is without crit mods, the "DPS mod" column is with crit mods. Any cell highlighted in red is a value I had to guess at because it isn't listed in the original workshop.

Literally buffs everywhere. The only weapons that lose damage are the Glaxion, which loses a tiny bit (3.5%) if you don't run crit mods (and why would you run crit mods), and the Synoid Gammacor - but the fire rate is not listed for the Synoid Gammacor, and that's a pretty huge deal. Every other weapon either went up, or stayed the same with regards to weapon DPS.

[lightdragon64]

What about the mote amp? That thing is kinda pathetic in comparison to the rest of the amps.

[Futurehero]

7 minutes ago, lightdragon64 said:

What about the mote amp? That thing is kinda pathetic in comparison to the rest of the amps.

mote

məʊt/

noun

 

1. a tiny piece of a substance; a speck.

   "the tiniest mote of dust"

[AuroraSonicBoom]

11 minutes ago, Khift said:

Literally buffs everywhere. The only weapons that lose damage are the Glaxion, which loses a tiny bit (3.5%) if you don't run crit mods (and why would you run crit mods), and the Synoid Gammacor - but the fire rate is not listed for the Synoid Gammacor, and that's a pretty huge deal. Every other weapon either went up, or stayed the same with regards to weapon DPS.

And then you add the fact that status is no longer calculated per second, and the entire rework suddenly looks a lot more promising.

[ReDRoS]

il y a 2 minutes, AuroraSonicBoom a dit :

And then you add the fact that status is no longer calculated per second, and the entire rework suddenly looks a lot more promising.

yes, but do you really want to play with weapons, whose range is less than in melee combat?

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Just now, ReDllStarS said:

yes, but do you really want to play with weapons, whose range is less than in melee combat?

Yeah, if they can make a niche for themselves. With how quickly you can move around in this game at virtually no cost, the drawbacks of limited fire range are severely diminished. That's why shotguns still reign supreme in general combat scenarios.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

Just now, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Yeah, if they can make a niche for themselves. With how quickly you can move around in this game at virtually no cost, the drawbacks of limited fire range are severely diminished. That's why shotguns still reign supreme in general combat scenarios.

shotguns have range, and if ur melee weapon does the same damage, and u can have a range weapon then have one

you dont need 2 melee weapons

[ZaviZao]

ignis wraith 40m range to 27m...meh

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Just now, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

shotguns have range, and if ur melee weapon does the same damage, and u can have a range weapon then have one

you dont need 2 melee weapons

Shotguns have a larger range, most have a lower time to kill because aiming is faster than running. You're welcome to jump around slashing everything down, but that doesn't invalidate the existence of every weapon with a mediocre range. You imply that there's only snipers and the rest of the weapons are subverted by the existence of melee. Quite the leap.

[ReDRoS]

il y a 2 minutes, AuroraSonicBoom a dit :

Shotguns have a larger range, most have a lower time to kill because aiming is faster than running. You're welcome to jump around slashing everything down, but that doesn't invalidate the existence of every weapon with a mediocre range. You imply that there's only snipers and the rest of the weapons are subverted by the existence of melee. Quite the leap.

everything depends on the plans of the developers they introduce updates for the plains and there the flow path is closed

[Stoner]

41 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Changes look ~neat overall (even if I'm not sure I can forgive you anytime soon for killing my 200% Crit on Amprex),
not least with that broken Status / second nonsense finally being removed (woo Ignis Wraith pwnage), except ...

Are you absolutely sure those beam ranges are fine? Like, for really reals?

I can understand limited range on AoE weapons like the Igniseses,
but Quanta Vandal should not be an exceptional outlier at 50m,
for "normal" beams, 30-40m at least should be the baseline
(or possibly even give them much further range but with damage falloff, or something).

Just gonna quote myself from a recent topic:

_{And no, this does not mean it's time to nerf Shotguns instead :P}

Yea I don't get it. I was expecting buffs but apparently they want to balance these buffs with nerfs... 2 steps forward, 2 steps backward. If your beam can't hit sh*t, no matter the damage it's still gonna be awful.