Anyone else hate the Archwing in general?

[AlexanderDMoon]

Archwing missions suck. The default Archwing equipment sucks. There are probably endless threads like these, but I'll try to give my two cents and see what happens.

 

THE PROBLEMS I'VE EXPERIENCED-

-The default Archwing equipment is garbage. The gun doesn't do enough damage, the wings have poor maneuverability, and the melee weapon isn't strong enough. 

-Shield Dargyns make anyone with the default Archwing gear useless, and they spawn much more often than regular Dargyns, from what I've experienced. The gun doesn't penetrate the shield, so the only way to kill them is with melee. Meleeing them makes you come into contact with their shield, which hits you with Electric procs, which destroys your own shields. With the amount of Shield Dargyn spawns in Archwing missions, you effectively have zero shields for the whole mission.

-Enemy spawns are overwhelming. Too much appears on the battlefield, and it's too much for one person to fight. Reducing the spawns would make it so much more manageable and less cancerous.

-Maneuverability is slow and inconsistent. In space, you move way too fast, can't turn quickly and can't brake (I should be able to press S or Shift and stop myself from hitting something, not blasting head-long into a rock that makes me lose what little shields/health the Dargyns leave me with), and underwater, you move too slow and emerging from the water is just... clunky and unresponsive. 

-Other Archwing Weapon/Wing options are only available through Platinum or the Clan Dojo research.

-Do I even need to mention it's abilities? It's shield projects too far from the Warframe and barely blocks anything, it's flares are useless, the missiles are inconsistent (I still don't know if they're homing or not), and I don't even remember what the fourth ability is. 

 

IDEAS FOR A SOLUTION-

-Make the default Archwing gear much, much more powerful. Give the wings more maneuverability, the gun some shield penetration and more damage, and the blade, just a little more damage.

-Make Shield Dargyns less common, or make their shields easily breakable (and give a visual indication like the shield cracking or wavering), or make the electric proc on their shields a lot less severe. Doing all three would be the dream scenario.

-Lessen the enemy spawn rate

-Give the wings the ability to turn on a dime, which is something it needs desperately. More maneuverability in space, more speed in water (plus maneuverability please).

-Make the other Archwing Weapon/Wing blueprints purchasable with credits in the market. 

-Have it's abilities actually be useful. Make the shield larger or use less energy, replace the flares with something else or make it use a minimal amount of energy, and make the missiles consistently home in on enemies from any range.

 

WHAT THESE CHANGES WOULD (HOPEFULLY) DO-

-It would make Archwing missions more enjoyable and less of a chore.

-Make Uranus not be the tenth layer of Hell.

 

-----------------

 

Well, let me know what you guys think.

[(PSN)VaNiDgE]

The only thing i dont like about archwing are the interception modes and the rush modes. but i loved how they incorporated archwing in some of the story mission and i wished DE would do more of that. Like have equal amounts of on foot and archwing in the one mission. i wish there were more stuff to do with archwing in the plains not just a quick way to get to your destination. 

i can see why people dont like it though, the clunkyness the narrow corridors. however implemented properly i can see it flourish. 

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

il y a 24 minutes, AlexanderDMoon a dit :

-The default Archwing equipment is garbage. The gun doesn't do enough damage, the wings have poor maneuverability, and the melee weapon isn't strong enough.

If it's unmodded, yes,
otherwise it's plenty enough.
The mix of the default archwing's abilities along with the default's weapon average critical chance can bring you through most archwing missions without any issue.
And if that's a problem, you can always create other weapons as you go.
It's not like you're always using Mk1-Braton in the ground-based game now, are you?

The wings are indeed weird to use despite many updates. There's always a velocity issue and no brake whatsoever. It's hardly manoeuvrable in small spaces and even in big space it has issues.

Melee weapon is literally the most broken archwing tool, I don't know how you're managing to say that it's weak.
 

il y a 31 minutes, AlexanderDMoon a dit :

-Enemy spawns are overwhelming. Too much appears on the battlefield, and it's too much for one person to fight. Reducing the spawns would make it so much more manageable and less cancerous.

They're actually really underwhelming, to the point where you need to actively search them.
I think on average you can get 30-80 kills per archwing mission as compared to 300-500 in regular missions. Reducing the spawn rate would literally make those mission a flying simulator.
 

il y a 34 minutes, AlexanderDMoon a dit :

-Other Archwing Weapon/Wing options are only available through Platinum or the Clan Dojo research.

Syndicates, trades with other players, clan research.

All of those are things I strongly recommend you look into. You won't experience the best of warframe without joining a clan and you'll miss a large portion of warframe content if you ignore syndicates.
 

il y a 36 minutes, AlexanderDMoon a dit :

-Do I even need to mention it's abilities? It's shield projects too far from the Warframe and barely blocks anything, it's flares are useless, the missiles are inconsistent (I still don't know if they're homing or not), and I don't even remember what the fourth ability is.

They're the basic abilities to allow you to pass through the low level content, certainly not meant to be used from beginning to end at 100% efficiency.
Odonata Shield is actually one of the most useful ability in the archwing mode.
Fourth ability is a AoE that pushes back enemies that are too close to you, always useful when in a thigh situation.


Over all, you gotta get into a clan and maybe learn to mod your weapons?
Sounds like that's the whole issue you've got.

The only thing I'm inclined to agree here is that the mobility and velocity is screwed up really bad.

 

[Koldraxon-732]

Your current issue stems from not modding your gear or looking at options. I personally enjoy Archwing combat, but the only problem is when it's in the Corpus Trenchways; very cloistered in there I admit. We deserve more Archwing missions per planet than what we have now.
Personally, the things Archwing could do with is as follows:

Spoiler

1: Bigger Corpus Trenchway tileset / movement set toggle via 5 for Archwings for cramped regions.
2: More hybrid mission types, inspired by some of the existing Archwing+normal missions (can help expand Invasions).
3: Make Archwings more resistant to Grineer anti-air missiles (Plains of Eidolon).
4: Introduce a brake setting (maybe binding the slide key when boosting to a full stop brake?).

 

[aswitz87]

Learn to fly?  Git good?

Seriously, Archwings are reletively easy to control (yes slow underwater, thats kinda what water does to things).  Might not come naturally for you, in which case practice.

Shield Ds just get behind them (strafe flying past and right away 180 and fire into their rears), with meh mods it takes a short burst to wipe them out.  No melee needed.

Spawns are mostly fine, with a few issues (too much for solo on interceptions for example). Yeah could be tweeked.

You actually turn instantly in the Archwings.  The visual rotation doesn't keep up though.  But you can do all sorts of S turns and maneuvers with no issue as long as you learn to ignore the animations and track your movement.  For reference, I boost through entire levels without colliding into walls... fans sometimes though.
Slowing down is done with the S key, though it is inefficient and you are better off just pulling an instant 180.  A better brake option would be nice (even if it was a new keybind).

Abilities for the Odi are balanced.  The shield works fine if facing the enemy.  The flares do their job (enemy missiles will miss if you have active flares).  The missiles... ok they suck.  Rarely use them.
Ability four is a shine though.  Max out ability strength and you can wipe out entire swarms of low enemies, or if in high missions some damage and massive repulse (good for defense types).

Now all this said, I do kinda hate the mode.  Its underutilized and feels forgotten or tacked on when it could be so much better in usage.  But people don't want to bother getting good at it, so DE is unlikely to give it much attention on improvement.

[Ovakyn]

I enjoy Archwing. 

The only problem is that the modding section is hidden behind the GUI so newer players don't know early on that you can mod it.

Make sure to try and grab everything you can because the mods will only drop from archwing missions and sometimes only specific archwing nodes.

[(PSN)LubzinNJ]

I don't get why these missions which in my limited experience everyone hates are even a thing. Archwing is a cumbersome buggy headbashing existence...why is this still happening?

[(PSN)l-p4p-I]

Apparently one more who hates Archwings.

My opinion:

hace 29 minutos, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-The default Archwing equipment is garbage. The gun doesn't do enough damage, the wings have poor maneuverability, and the melee weapon isn't strong enough. 

Have you tried using mods on ur archgun or archmelee? The main problem with most of 'Archwing Haters' is they just use a couple of mods, only one, or simply unmodded, sometimes unranked, added the fact: sometimes low MR players have not enough mod cap for mods, but give some love to ur weapons, use a catalyst. U cannot pretend destroy everything at ur pass if u haven't put a potato and nice mods in ur weapon at least.

hace 39 minutos, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-Shield Dargyns make anyone with the default Archwing gear useless, and they spawn much more often than regular Dargyns, from what I've experienced. The gun doesn't penetrate the shield, so the only way to kill them is with melee. Meleeing them makes you come into contact with their shield, which hits you with Electric procs, which destroys your own shields. With the amount of Shield Dargyn spawns in Archwing missions, you effectively have zero shields for the whole mission.

Well, i agree here with you, when i was low MR, even when i tried to melee to a lvl1 shield dargyn, that guy made a lot of dmg. But i read recently DE was fixing that, so Shield Dargyn cannot longer spawn in low lvl missions.

hace 43 minutos, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-Enemy spawns are overwhelming. Too much appears on the battlefield, and it's too much for one person to fight. Reducing the spawns would make it so much more manageable and less cancerous.

Agree here too. Only in low lvl missions of course...

hace 44 minutos, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-Maneuverability is slow and inconsistent. In space, you move way too fast, can't turn quickly and can't brake (I should be able to press S or Shift and stop myself from hitting something, not blasting head-long into a rock that makes me lose what little shields/health the Dargyns leave me with), and underwater, you move too slow and emerging from the water is just... clunky and unresponsive. 

Adjust sensitivity.

Also, go check in the options menu, there is an option called 'Experimental Flight', u can turn off and try another flying style, maybe this is better for you.

hace 47 minutos, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-Other Archwing Weapon/Wing options are only available through Platinum or the Clan Dojo research.

U can craft every weapon in the game. There are some archweapons bp u can buy in market segment.

Also, u could try join a clan with all lab research completed and buy a blueprint.

hace 53 minutos, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-Do I even need to mention it's abilities? It's shield projects too far from the Warframe and barely blocks anything, it's flares are useless, the missiles are inconsistent (I still don't know if they're homing or not), and I don't even remember what the fourth ability is. 

-Odonata Shield is pretty good imo, and using his augment, u can give for free a shield to ur teammates =)

-Use flares when targeted for missiles, that's the idea.

-Missiles (just need power strength)

-Same, i cannot remember last ability

hace 57 minutos, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

IDEAS FOR A SOLUTION-

-Make the default Archwing gear much, much more powerful. Give the wings more maneuverability, the gun some shield penetration and more damage, and the blade, just a little more damage.

Not a good idea imo.

For example, that sounds like pretend give a Tigris Prime and a Galatine Prime to a Starter Excalibur instead Mk1Braton and Skana.

(Do u understand what i mean?)

hace 1 hora, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-Make Shield Dargyns less common, or make their shields easily breakable (and give a visual indication like the shield cracking or wavering), or make the electric proc on their shields a lot less severe. Doing all three would be the dream scenario.

Already mentioned it. DE fixed that, only for low lvl missions.

If u go with an unmodded/unranked Odonata, Imperator and Veritux to an 'Archwing Exterminate LVL30', be sure enemies will destroy u.

hace 1 hora, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-Give the wings the ability to turn on a dime, which is something it needs desperately. More maneuverability in space, more speed in water (plus maneuverability please).

Adjust Sensitivity...

hace 1 hora, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

Make the other Archwing Weapon/Wing blueprints purchasable with credits in the market. 

From my point of view, there's no difference betwen buying from market or dojo. Join a clan with all reasearchs completed.

hace 1 hora, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

-Have it's abilities actually be useful. Make the shield larger or use less energy, replace the flares with something else or make it use a minimal amount of energy, and make the missiles consistently home in on enemies from any range.

Use some mods, use a potaton give some love to ur arsenal <3

hace 1 hora, AlexanderDMoon dijo:

It would make Archwing missions more enjoyable and less of a chore.

There is an Archwing for each type of mission. Odonata is starter archwing, if u r not very experienced with archwings, Odonata will always be a bad idea.

Use Amesha for mobile defenses, also, it has pretty support abilities. Elytron if just wanna destroy everything. Itzal if u feeling like speedrunning. Idk.

Good day fellow Tenno!

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

I hate archwings purely on the content.

The level design are uninspired. the mission types are rediculous.  And with sharkwing and POE Archwing the entire archwing experience is completely fragmented across the game.

They need to completely revampthe level and mission design for Archwings.

But as a first step they could at least add more mission types on each planet to increase the variety of grind and the ability to use and develop the archwing. Being that archwing had like what 5 missions they could add all of them to each planet and make using archwing at least somewhat of a palatable grind.

And I keep re-iterating the same point over and pover again, why are there no deathrace missions or chase missions?  Why aren't archwing geared towards speed runners and rewards players for finishing a mission as quickly as possible?  Not only is speed running a huge thing in this game but the entire concept of archwing lends itself to racing and beat the clock type gameplay.

I have been an avid fan of flying games and flight modes in games, I really wanted to get behind archwings, but it's so boring, so uninspired, and just not fun to do overall. But someone at DE is committed to archwings being a thing despite is half finished and unpolished design. So until that Dev gives up on archwings we are stuck with it.

One of the few things which truly disappointments me about this game.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

For me, Archwing is great. Sharkwing is great.

But... Oh boy, Archwing on the Plains of Eidolon is backwards and terrible to maneuver. “Experimental Flight” option works on Archwing, but for PoE it doesn’t. Maneuvering your Archwing there you have to use your camera and not your primary movement hotkeys, which on PS4 is pretty terrible when you have to boost with X but have to maneuver with R3 analog stick.

Terrible.

[(PSN)thowed]

If it would control like Zone of the Enders or something similar it would be great.  Don't understand why they've left it so clunky.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Not as much as I hate Conclave.

 

or raids.

 

but that last ones kinda solved.

 

Archwing could have been better and it has been a LOT worse. all the old levels are designed with a signal horizon so being able to change your horizon just makes things look wrong rather then having more freedom. I wanted the opening section of Deadspace 3 kinda space stuff... but o well.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

I can think of quite a few mission types that i think alot of people would go for:

Obstacle course racing. Non combat, tight halls.

Deathrace, both open area and course driven, This could work for both conclave and PvE.

Redesign Sabotage and Exterminate levels and mission to be completely time driven. Your final reward is completely dependent on how fast you can finish the level. Mix in some of the aforementioned racing level design to these missions.

[xV3NOMx]

I do enjoy the "Archwing" system in the game and wish they were part of every space derelict mission where players have to fly and fight their way to the destination in Archwing mode, complete the mission objective inside the craft, then escape fighting again in Archwing mode to reach their landing craft.

[I never understood why the warframe starts far away from their landing craft on a mission instead where it docks at, when back-tracking  makes more sense where you already cleared the area of enemies.]

* I do wish for Archwing weapons become available on the Plains of Eidolon.

[Hypernaut1]

I would love ArchWing except for 3 things

1. New flight controls. I don't like the 6 degrees of freedom thing. I preferred when it has an up and down. It just felt like more seemless with warframe controls. What they tried could've been cool, but they never went back to tweak it to make it feel good

2. Content drought. They've forgotten about it. I remember when I thought AW was going to be practically a Zone of Enders game within Warframe. With it's own developing progression, weapons and enemies.

3. The way the bullets don't come out of the tip of the gun. I absolutely loath the fact that bullets can shoot literally sideways out of aw guns. They always shoot towards middle of screen regardless of where your character is facing.

[(XBOX)motionROTATION]

I I think the biggest handicap when it comes to Archwing is the mods. Early archwing is easy and lategame (Salacia) is easy to get crushed if you’ve never upgraded. Then, even with better gear your stats still suck until you’ve gotten lucky with drops. Then it becomes easy again. 

Its such a cool concept that just feels like it’s close to being awesome, but isn’t. Locking on with melee is fun! It drives the combat and makes it feel hectic! Except when there are only 5 enemies around you which is almost always...

They have ships to trap you! But then the enemies don’t converge.   The Famorian mission is pretty fun, but who wants to farm cryotic just to play it? The races mentioned earlier sounds sweet, or loot based on speed. Hell, they could easily have a sabotage mission that’s “Death Star destruction” easque. But really I think they need to “overwhelm “ the player to add a bigger sense of urgency. And also make mod drops not frighten rare. I’m still missing many elemental mods after hours farming Salacia. 

[PurplePoloPlayer]

Archwing is terrible. For now we have to suffer through it.

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

48 minutes ago, xV3NOMx said:

I do enjoy the "Archwing" system in the game and wish they were part of every space derelict mission where players have to fly and fight their way to the destination in Archwing mode, complete the mission objective inside the craft, then escape fighting again in Archwing mode to reach their landing craft.

A long time ago, in a system far far away, this was the original concept behind Archwings. All those portion of quests in which you transition from warframe to archwing was the closest they ever got to putting it in the game. Apparently having this type of transition taxes the game, hence it's only seen in carefully scripted events like quests. Although apparently POE and sharkwing realized that dream. So I wonder if perhaps they will revisit these quests and maybe have more hybrid archwing level design, but honestly they haven't hinted anything like that.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

I love archwings.    The only problem I have with them is that archwing missions can be very laggy and the framerate can turn into a slideshow.  

 

Other than that.....

- STOP marking crap as archwing missions if you only use them partially for the mission (neptune/pluto)

-Add a bazillion more missions and or at the very least make sure every planet has 1-2 missions.  

-Look at the freaking cost of materials on some of the archwings/weapons.  If your not going to give us good ways to farm Oxium stop making it take so much!!

-------------------------

I HATE side scrolling shooters where your a little spaceship and have to dodge bullets while your spamming your weapon back trying to fight through hordes of enemies to take on those boss ships.......

But that sounds hella cool in 3d.  Fighting through hoardes of crap troops in space to try and get at some super spaceship that is just bristling with weapons all over its hull.  You would have to take out all the weapons on it while evading deadly barrages.    

[Tsardova]

Nah, archwing missions can be fun.

 

 

This on the other hand is not.....

 

Seriously, they need to make archwing less of a corridor humpfest and more of a 0G playground.

[TotallyLagging]

Archwing movement is horrible. 6DOF was especially horrible.

Gunplay is horrible. It's less space battle and more microscopic shooter. 

Plains Archwing also happens to (somehow) be the worst iteration of Archwing so far. Can't turn off 6DOF so have fun sliding around when you just want to pick some Cetus Wisp or stop to shoot, every single god damn enemy can take your wings off in one shot, and you can't go very high either because the game will smash your face on the planet despite Zephyr and Titania not having this restriction. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

is "archwing sucks" one of the squares on the Warframe Bingo card? it probably should be.

DE have tried reworking Archwing controls multiple times, and the result is always the same: it's never what we want. at this point they seem to have basically given up with standard Archwing; if Zephyr Prime, the FLIGHT THEMED Warframe won't come with a primed Archwing, then there's next to no chance of seeing another primed Archwing. might as well convert the Archwings into frames with similar powers (Elytron as a Warframe would be amazing, just explosions everywhere) and scale down the weapons for Warframe use. Archwing should probably be retired from the game next, I don't think many people would miss it.

[Volinus7]

Warframe archwing controls and movements are in the uncanny valley, it's neither aircraft-ish nor mecha-ish because it's recycled from the main mode, you wouldn't get anything like Cosmic break, Armored core, Virtual on, Silverknight, MacrossVOXP, Ace combat in it. 

[Ozent]

Fluctus + centaur + itzal = fun

[xV3NOMx]

21 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

A long time ago, in a system far far away, this was the original concept behind Archwings. All those portion of quests in which you transition from warframe to archwing was the closest they ever got to putting it in the game. Apparently having this type of transition taxes the game, hence it's only seen in carefully scripted events like quests. Although apparently POE and sharkwing realized that dream. So I wonder if perhaps they will revisit these quests and maybe have more hybrid archwing level design, but honestly they haven't hinted anything like that.

There were a few missions that were similar to what I suggest when the "Kuva Fortress" was first introduced. I don't recall if it were part of an event at the time or part of "The War Within" quest, but it was a fun game mechanic.