Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I’m liking this Revisit. You’re speaking to the heart of a Saryn main here, DE. ❤️

[Pendragon1951]

@Jim Harding I was just wondering in regards to sound in general would it be possible to let us communicate to our team mates without having to push to talk, in the game The Division we are able to talk with our squad mates simply by having a mic and headset? This would free us from any keyboard input in the midst of battle to communicate with team mates and vastly improve coordination in battle even more than it is now. In regards to the Saryn's rework it all sounds very interesting looking forward to watching it tonight.

[Peter]

Spores with corrosive? please no!! change back to viral...

[Lieuthermond]

Aaaand now I'm sad.

I really like Viral proc and I like using it even when it's not optimal (like against Corpus, for example) and now I'm losing the only frame that's capable of using it 😞

 

[Ivan_Rid]

As long as Sniper build is still viable I do not care much. But if we cant transfer Toxin with Spores then Saryn is pretty much dead for me.

Hope I can clear Spores on demand now, becase the only way to get Toxin stacking going now is building for extremely low duration.

[(PSN)Green4774]

This sounds really amazing. I can't wait to see it in action

[Vernoc]

imo saryn was a rly good frame if u know how to play her...the change now makes her even better!!!

 

i only dislike the viral ult dmg

[CronkoBosh]

Seems like a legit change to her kit.  Will be looking at this one closely.

[Morthal]

I can already feel the pain of being in a random squad for Endless Kuva/Elite Onslaught and nobody equipped CP...because we expected Saryn. Will really regret changing all my weapons elements afterward. The redundancy shall be over 9000! Oh well, can be considered an unexpected challenge.

[sKayllaZ]

Wont changing the Spores from Viral to Corrosive make her 1 faction trick? Kinda like Mag went from Coprus to Grineer.

Its the only change i see bad in this.

Just my opinion.

[Phailberry]

This . . . . is . ..   . amazing! Can't wait to see it all in action ^__^

And of course, Dani gets heavily involved XD

[Sannidor]

Nerf Saryn because she synergizes with other frames allowing us to deal with high level enemies?

Why not make enemies more interesting and challenging to fight?

You want Maiming Strike be the only way to play at some point?

[Patzer]

4 minutes ago, Zanakeph said:

Spores with corrosive? please no!! change back to viral...

 

4 minutes ago, Lieuthermond said:

Aaaand now I'm sad.

I really like Viral proc and I like using it even when it's not optimal (like against Corpus, for example) and now I'm losing the only frame that's capable of using it 😞

 

What's wrong with just proccing viral with Miasma in 2.0? :S

[Patzer]

Just now, Sannidor said:

Nerf Saryn because she synergizes with other frames allowing us to deal with high level enemies?

Why not make enemies more interesting and challenging to fight?

You want Maiming Strike be the only way to play at some point?

How the hell do you derive nerf from this?

[Xantheon]

My only hope is that I can still transfer toxin damage through spores. everything else I see I am pretty fond of. I don't know how to feel about the shift from viral to corrosive, but I would think it would be fine as long as the spores are ramping up constantly. I will miss being able to cast spore, run to the other side of a map and cast it again on another group, so that's unfortunate. I am not sure if I would like recasting more than the borderline nuke to reset damage though.

Overall pretty excited to see what happens with her! Pretty optimistic so far!

[RevenantPhoenix]

It seems like a solid review concept. I think it certainly succeeds at the intention to simplify her kit, while also making it more fun/active, all without removing or nerfing what she's capable of. I'm looking forward to trying these changes.

I hope Ember gets a review like this, ideally soon. After her recent update, she's pretty dysfunctional, especially when compared to other warframes like Saryn. Once this review goes through, Ember's going to look even worse.

Good job on the writeup for this workshop btw. Very insightful. I especially liked the developer note in the Spore section; it's always good to understand what you guys are thinking.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Naramon-Phoenix

[Morthal]

1 minute ago, Patzer said:

How the hell do you derive nerf from this?

As for synergy, it's a massive nerf. Viral > Corrosive isn't nano science.

[Jabett]

3 minutes ago, sKayllaZ said:

Wont changing the Spores from Viral to Corrosive make her 1 faction trick? Kinda like Mag went from Coprus to Grineer.

Its the only change i see bad in this.

Just my opinion.

mag is useful against all factions, do research please

[Lieuthermond]

2 minutes ago, Patzer said:

 

 

What's wrong with just proccing viral with Miasma in 2.0? :S

Using a lot of energy and not being able to use it with the same frequency, for a start.

[ES3M]

My suggestion would be to have Miasma be more representative of it's name-sake; Viral damage being a good start but also leaving a cloud behind with a chance to create it's own spores. Also augment idea: Bio-Propellant - Miasma creates a growing cloud of flammable gas that easily ignites but deals less damage as it thins out.

[Ar0ndight]

Thank you so much DE!

You simply can't understand how happy this makes me as someone who'd LOVE to main Saryn but doesn't like being pigeon holed into her current super restrictive playstyle+bugs.

Thank you so much for looking at her again.

Also, nerfing Molt+spore while buffing what Saryn should actually be about is perfect. That's how you nerf an unhealthy playstyle.

[(PSN)ArchangelX3Z]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

 

So I heard from a friend "Saryn is getting a rework".  And I thought, great the main warframe I've played with over 3 years with over 30% usage is going to be ruined.....

 

I've never been so hyped for anything in warframe ever.  This opens up endless things for her, Toxic lash was nonsense to never be looked at before, now I want to build around it.  Molt is all around just so much more useful, and that spores 2.0 is going to be insane.  Not too mention the rework for dipping framerate, it's a nightmare an hour in to a survival when you're inundated by enemies and there's so many numbers the rest of your squad has to leave and pull you cause you can't move.  Everything you've detailed is on point.  Do other frames need a rework? Yes.  Do I care cause my lady is getting done up just right?  No, Saryn Forever.

[Misgenesis]

YES! REJOICE!

Spoiler

 

 

Quote

 

ABILITY CHANGES

Now for the nitty gritty! The following details Saryn’s abilities in their 2.0 revisited form. 

General Changes

• Increased Saryn’s Armor from 175 to 225 (at rank 30)
• Increased Saryn Prime’s Armor from 225 to 300 (at rank 30) 

 

 

Good! Much needed durability changes in order to boost her viability with Toxic Lash builds.

 

Quote

 

Spores

Spores now have Infinite Duration and Escalating Damage! What exactly does that mean? Essentially, Spore duration is determined by the enemies affected. As long as enemies are dying to Spores, they will spread.  As an added bonus, the longer your Spores deal damage, the more your damage output will grow. 

*Developer note: We really want to emphasize that this is experimental. With Spores we’re trying a couple new things that we’ve never done before, so we’ve entered new territory that is both exciting and a little scary: Infinite Duration and Infinite Escalating Damage. Both of these have had interesting and fun results under normal test play and conditions, but we are still testing and looking for edge situations that might require us to go back to the drawing board.

• Spores changed from Viral to Corrosive damage, which repurposes it as a great tool to strip armor from enemies. 
• Increased Status Chance from 10% to 50%, also scaling with Power Strength.
• When an enemy affected by Spores dies, they spread to surrounding enemies. This makes it much easier to keep Spores active.    
  • *Developer Note: We are particularly apprehensive about Spores behaving this way since we’ve paired it with an already experimental mechanic  - it is the most likely portion of the rework to be highly reconsidered before launch.   
• Recasting Spores will detonate all active Spores and will deal 2x the damage on an infected enemy based on the number of active Spores and their current damage per tick.
• A meter showing damage per tick and the number of affected enemies will be available in the UI to keep tabs on active Spores. 
• Venom Dose Augment Change: Spores cast on allies temporarily grant them additional Corrosive (was Viral) damage to all attacks.
•  

 

 

This is iffy. Corrosive procs only work on two factions 100% of the time where as Viral is universally useful. Corrosive also requires multiple procs before you see noticeable increase in damage.

Im guessing the intent here is that we're losing instant damage in favor of more long term damage which i really cant argue with, will have to play to see.

Consider not going forward with Spores detonating on recast as players like myself like to cast it multiple times on different enemies to spread an area faster.

 

Quote

 

Molt

Molt has classically been a great tool of deception and distraction, especially when in a bind and in need a quick escape to reposition. We wanted to retain this utility but improve on it so that it offered more reliable and robust cover options.   

• After casting, Saryn receives a movementary speed boost for a short duration.     
• Molt will now scale similar to Rhino’s Iron Skin - All the initial damage it takes in the first few seconds will make it stronger. Any damage it receives after that point will target the absorbed health (Damage absorbed will show in a buff indicator in the UI). Once it reaches 0, Molt explodes dealing Toxin damage to nearby enemies. 
• Improved FX changes to make her Molt cast more pronounced. 
• Her Regenerative Molt Augment remains the same! “Saryn regenerates health over a span of time after casting Molt.”

 

 

Changes we've been asking for, glad to have them. Speed boost is nice but didnt Rebecca say that something like 90% of Saryn players are running Regenerative Molt. It seems like an obvious choice to integrate the augment and come up with something more creative for a new augment.

Quote

 

Toxic Lash

You’ve told us that having Toxic Lash limited to Melee was too restrictive and was simply not compatible with a broader variety of playstyles. So we’re sharing its Toxin with the lot of your Arsenal! Toxic Lash’s Toxin damage buff in Saryn’s revisit is now granted to ANY weapon in your Loadout (Primary, Secondary, and Melee). In maintaining its roots, the damage buff on Melee weapons is doubled. 

• With Toxic Lash active, your weapons will trigger Toxin Status Effect on any damage instance. 
• Increased the duration from 30 seconds to 45 seconds. 
• We’ve maintained Toxic Lash’s ability to spread Spores to nearby enemies by dealing damage while  active. 
• With the new spreading nature of Spores, survivability of Molt, and the increase duration of Toxic Lash and Miasma, Saryn is no longer as Energy hungry as she used to be, so we’ve removed the 2 Energy restore on Spores burst by Toxic Lash.   
• Contagion Cloud Augment change: Kills with Toxic Lash will leave behind a Toxin cloud. As an added bonus, Melee kills double the damage dealt by the cloud. 

 

Toxic Lash finally fits into her kit backed up by increased armor. Good good.

Consider at least nerfing the amount of energy restored to keep that trait, Saryn is in a wonderful spot where she can be built to be self sufficient which is refreshing to see. Maybe make it per enemy basis, a spored enemy hit with Toxic Lash second time will no longer give energy back.

Quote

Miasma

We’ve taken what’s great about Miasma, and made it even better in the scope of Saryn’s 2.0 changes! 

• Changed Miasma’s damage type from Corrosive to Viral. 
  • *We've swapped Miasma and Spores damage types with one another since Spores in its 2.0 form allows for more than 1 proc per second.
• Miasma has a 100% guaranteed Viral Status Effect on damage tick. 
• Increased damage from 350 to 500. 
• Increased duration from 3 to 5 seconds. 
• Miasma inflicts double damage on targets affected by Spores. 
• When recasting on the same enemy it will refresh the tick duration and maintain the Viral Status Effect, but will not stun enemies a second time.

Stripping enemies with Spores and then cutting their HP in half seems pretty nice. I among other have long requested Miasma to actually proc corrosive to give it some use at higher levels but this is a nice alternative.

Being a general debuffer frame it wouldve been nice to see a range increase. If damage is a concern then increased range for Viral procs only?

Either way its nice to see it have use at higher levels with more stun and Viral procs.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Misgenesis

[Patzer]

2 minutes ago, Morthal said:

As for synergy, it's a massive nerf. Viral > Corrosive isn't nano science.

Miasma?

[Riccoshot]

Like, okay, i get what you had in mind - strip armor with Spores > finish off Flesh with Miasma that is now Viral. That's an alright synergy. 

And since Spores will be doing infinite damage, theorelically it'd be alright against Infested heavies as well, not sure about Corpus yet.

Though i suggest cycle (similar to Vauban's Minelayer or Ivara's Arrows) Spores between  Corrosive / Gas simply to be able to debuff Corpus as well, since Molt currently is quite suboptimal source of Gas damage.

 

All that aside, oh boy isnt' there like any single person who told you about Armor scaling problems (if you so constantly & heavily focusing on options for dealing with it.)

So i'm curious, why are you embracing many contoversial things within your game systems with band-aids instead of fixing the core mechanics.

Armor is no exception, just watch your own progression for its solutions. A vast majority of them would be band-aid auguments.

Nunge nudge wink wink. Hunter Munitions is the only way for low status wespons to deal with armor. Do i need to mention low status Secondaries that don't have any options.

 

Though again. A said rework is alright. I'm just not enthusiastic due to the feeling of digging the hole of band-aids deeper instead of rethinking the core systems.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Riccoshot
wording