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[DE]Rebecca

Daily Tribute Dev Workshop!

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First, I'm writing with one hand, atm, so there may be points already brought up because I'm writing slowly to avoid too many grammatical errors.

There are a lot of problems with what is outline here. Some due to vagueness on an issue that ought to be as clear and fully thought a possible, some I'm not even sure how common sense was forgotten with this plan.

Let me first state that I'm currently half way to MR 21 and will be hitting day 200 this weekend (a benefit of being disabled is that you have more time to grind than most). Now, most of the people with no issues with new system would probably think I'm just the person to be excited about this. I'll get all the choice i want for the rest of my time with the game. But lets think about this. If this new system is implemented in less that 100 days, i will have to login an additional 100 days for a weapon that some one else can get in their first 100 days. That's kind of a slap in the face. A simple fix would be to keep mods on even milestones and weapons on odds. But two outcomes can come from this suggestion:

1.) DE says the system is going as played above - If this happens, some in a position like mine has no reason to log into the game. why keep playing now when it takes away the benefit of the new system later on? And if they do stop playing, you now have an indeterminable number players not play Vlad when he drops, thus cutting out a part of the feedback to ensure the frame is balanced and fun to play.

2.) DE sees the mistake and keeps the mods and weapons on the same even/odd structure they have now and just keep the choice aspect - How does this benefit anyone past 100 already? The further away from day 100, the less any of this is meaningful or rewarding. The trading idea is gone, so is it still possible for use to pick doubles? If we can, all that becomes is a false choice since no weapon or mod is worth having 2 or more of. Mods work between weapons and the login weapons aren't so meta to need different forma configurations to justify pick a weapon more than once. And if we don't gets doubles, you have even less choice as the longer you've played, the more you already have.

That's the main problem, the false choice. They say this about customization, that " Personalization is a huge part of Warframe." But all the customizing in Warframe has always been traded in with either real money or in-game playing:

  • Color palettes - plat (from own money or from trading, most likely someone else's money)
  • Armor - plat or money for prime
  • Warframes - farming or plat
  • helmets - completing alerts or plat
  • Skins - plat or ducats for Baro immortals
  • Syandanas - plat
  • sigils - completion of in game missions or tasks or spending rep with syndicates

To DE credit, it was a master stroke because not only what you chose to get was meaningful, but how you got was meaningful. That's why is personaliztion, because each person chose how much each piece or their warframe and there ship and weapons could be and look like meant by the effort the put in to get them. No one else is going to have the same experience, the same history, with game and those customization options are the record of each players time in the game. And the current current system adds to that. When you hit a milestone, so much meaning gets infused into that reward. You have all your experiences that led up to it and then become a part of the new one after. It signifies to others in game of time a dedication. It generates camaraderie with vets who got it before and those that get it after you.

With the new system, when you pick when you get it, all of that meaning is gone. It's not customization or personalization, it's convenience and only for new people.

 

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Can we have more Endo on low level enemy missions on rewards, because for example survival we got 20 Endo in 5min. but in that 5 min time i got maybe 200 Endo from the enemy and it not make sense why i ' m getting low Endo reward it's just ridiculous...please fix that.its not important but its not good record if not then give some good mod that have use so that new players know why they are playing...and endo reword can get only on big level when we got 400 endo reword like we have now and thats it....i hope you understand my point 😊

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Cant you just make a screen with "pick a reward" like when you rank up in a syndicate?

Edited by Cyloss
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1 hour ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

Isn't this hipster logic. I was there first, so even though our time investment has been the same, the less dedicated (time-wise) player who happened to play the game earlier should be ahead?

If you were there before them, then why are they 2 years+ ahead of you on something as simple as a login?

You only know what this game was like barely a year ago. The other person would have been playing the game in its state 3 years ago. You also don’t know how they spent their time. They could have easily gotten through all the content in 1000 hours and took a break, only logging in for the bonus while they waited for the next content drop. It doesn’t take that long to burn through all of Warframe content, especially if you have as disposable income.

You want the 1000 Day armor set? You should have to log in for 1000 days.

Edited by TheFatDrake
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Thank you for the edit update :) I was really frustrated before the edit because I'm 27 days away for zenistar :D almost 300 days now. Thank you for changing additional 100 days wait. Really appreciated :D

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Keep sigils timegated. Primed mods and weapons are unfair to keep timegated, but cosmetics are more deserving of being locked behind their original requirements.  

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Good on the scaling it gives veterans a little something, but it does very little to help the ridiculous timegate for new players,  please give this another pass

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I swear to clem, prodman and the creepy kid who hangs out in my ship. I'm 18 days away from the sigma octantis which is the last thing in the game i need to master to have done them all. If you go ahead with these changes and i have to wait another 100 days imma mail you the rage poop you induce. (jk) but i will not be happy please reconsider for me and others in similar situations.

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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

MR

Old Endo Average

 

Days

New Endo Average

1

50

 

1

50

5

57.5

 

200

100

10

65

 

400

150

15

72.5

 

600

200

20

80

 

800

250

25

80

 

1000

300

 

You guys might want to take a double take on these, those endo rewards are better than what it was before. But it is still not worth getting, it still feels like a slap across the face.

When taking a look on the endo cost on mods these rewards are still below average.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Common 10 30 70 150 310 630 1,270 2,550 5,110 10,230
Uncommon 20 60 140 300 620 1,260 2,540 5,100 10,220 20,460
Rare 30 90 210 450 930 1,890 3,810 7,650 15,330 30,690
Legendary 40 120 280 600 1,240 2,520 5,080 10,200 20,440 40,920

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10 minutes ago, TheFatDrake said:

If you were there before them, then why are they 2 years+ ahead of you on something as simple as a login?

You only know what this game was like barely a year ago. The other person would have been playing the game in its state 3 years ago. You also don’t know how they spent their time. They could have easily gotten through all the content in 1000 hours and took a break, only logging in for the bonus while they waited for the next content drop. It doesn’t take that long to burn through all of Warframe content, especially if you have as disposable income.

You want the 1000 Day armor set? You should have to log in for 1000 days. By your logic I should be at Day 2500.

I'm not sure where you're picking up the 2500 day logic. My point was that non-progressive systems stink. Being there first is a terrible way to balance a game and is a mentality that has killed or suppressed more than one game. The game company thinks of it as honoring their most devoted fans, but it just creates a two-tiered culture. Thankfully it applies to almost nothing else in game.

Making a game that encourages players to do boring thing is bad game design. If the actual gameplay was bad, then Warframe's grind would be awful. But the core gameplay is good so it's just a progression system. There's always been something I wanted to work on and I enjoy the core game.

But logging in for the sake of logging in is not interesting gameplay. They don't actually need to reward people for logging in. I think they just borrowed that from other F2P games, but it's a crap gameplay mechanic. And really one of the saddest things I can think of for a game is one that rewards you for logging in only to remind you that you don't actually want to do anything in the game.

But frankly that bothers me less than anything that smells of two-tiered culture. In virtually all parts of society, people cling onto their perceived power and status to the detriment of their communities -- the idea that time invested is goodness. Or really anything that they can use to keep others safely below them. Exclusivity is dumb. 

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54 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

If this is confirmed and absolutely true then all my butt-hurt-ery ends now! Otherwise, I feel this is a kick in the face to those of us that not only logged-in beyond 200 days, but also played the game beyond 200 days. I remember when I started there was Primed Vigor and Zenistar and I was like 'I'll get them if I enjoy this game enough.' Here I am 839 days in, still playing the game everyday like it just got released or something. I even got a crap-ton of people to play this and they've gone on to bring a crap-ton more.

That part about the repeats is true, as far as I know. But in the dev workshop thread, Reb cleared up that basically none of the reward items will be tradeable. I sort of get why they chose this, more incentive to log on I guess. But yeah, I based what i said off of what was said in the devstream, I hadn't checked the Dev Workshop. 

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2 minutes ago, mawdeeps said:

I swear to clem, prodman and the creepy kid who hangs out in my ship. I'm 18 days away from the sigma octantis which is the last thing in the game i need to master to have done them all. If you go ahead with these changes and i have to wait another 100 days imma mail you the rage poop you induce. (jk) but i will not be happy please reconsider for me and others in similar situations.

they won't reset your counter

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no but sigma octantis is currently 700 and will move to 800 with the current proposal same with things like zenistar etc. which means my friend who is on around 580 will be able to get it at 600 and i'll have to wait another 4 months

Edited by mawdeeps

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1 minute ago, mawdeeps said:

no but sigma octantis is currently 700 and will move to 800 with the current proposal same with things like zenistar etc

you should probably read the latest update

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It's better than what we have but it's not what I was anticipating. I thought you'd just pick an item which displays how many days it takes of logging in to receive it (50/100) and then you start progressing to get it. I'd prefer that personally.

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JUST PLEASE, do not make us start login days counted all over again from scratch like when the Daily Tribute was reworked. ; _ ; 

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4 minutes ago, ShiraHagane said:

you should probably read the latest update

ah thank god for that thanks man that rage poop was nearly out gonna go check undies

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I think the 3 separated categories, no need.

I think that would be better if people can choose which 50th reward they want. Sigil, booster, weapon or mod.

I don't see much different from the earlier slow getting what I want.

For mastery, 4 weapon 1st, that cost 200 day.

Who don't need any of that weapon or mastery folder, than maybe mods.

And maybe just maybe for starters booster reactor and catalyst at earlie  maybe a good choice, but the point everybody can choose what want.

Can't be done the 50th prize choose as an inventory choosing, so there can be list all 50th reward not just 3 or 4?

I know it's hard to programm it down. There is so many changing about system and enviroment.

But if can, give it a try.

Good  luck! Keep up the good work! Every year this game is better.

P.s.:Sorry about my bad english, if somebody can understand it pls write it with better grammer. Have a nice day.

Edited by Sysifus

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I like most of this but I'm currently at 250 days and switching equipment and primed mods will add another hundred days to my wait for the Zenistar right before I get it, so I'm not so jazzed on that. 

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Can we just get a log in system without any exclusive weapons or mods?
(so every 50 day reward should be a cosmetic item, a booster or an items that you can earn in game like LC or rivens)

I am around 970 days but most of the time I just log in then press the X because there is nothing I can do because we are not getting any updates for month.
But if you add an other weapon to the 1100 day log in I will not play just keep logging in each day till I get it for sure so there is no point keeping it locked away.


As an extra note I would like to use the Primed Fury in my melee and in my sentinel but I can't because it is limited.
(it would be nice to use the same ranked up mods on weapons and sentinel weapons too)

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

I'm not sure where you're picking up the 2500 day logic. My point was that non-progressive systems stink. Being there first is a terrible way to balance a game and is a mentality that has killed or suppressed more than one game. The game company thinks of it as honoring their most devoted fans, but it just creates a two-tiered culture. Thankfully it applies to almost nothing else in game.

Making a game that encourages players to do boring thing is bad game design. If the actual gameplay was bad, then Warframe's grind would be awful. But the core gameplay is good so it's just a progression system. There's always been something I wanted to work on and I enjoy the core game.

But logging in for the sake of logging in is not interesting gameplay. They don't actually need to reward people for logging in. I think they just borrowed that from other F2P games, but it's a crap gameplay mechanic. And really one of the saddest things I can think of for a game is one that rewards you for logging in only to remind you that you don't actually want to do anything in the game.

But frankly that bothers me less than anything that smells of two-tiered culture. In virtually all parts of society, people cling onto their perceived power and status to the detriment of their communities -- the idea that time invested is goodness. Or really anything that they can use to keep others safely below them. Exclusivity is dumb. 

First, It's a login system, not gameplay. You type your account details and click. if had actual do something game-wise to get you have a point. The login reward is a thank you from the devs.

Second, all things in life is about time investment. You right now are investing your time to write forum posts to hopefully gain power to influence the game development the way you want.

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I am sorry but i call BS!

You can't take away the prestige that is generated by these logins from people that consistently stayed at this system.

If you want to make this more flexible there have to be locks in place to make it fair.

For example:

Up until login day 299 players cannot choose between the rewards. At day 300 they get to choose between Zenistar or Zenith but NOT anything pass day 500. At day 500 as a result of the choice they made 300 they get the other weapon. Same at 700/900!

This will at least not have a little MR8 walk around with Sigma & Octantis and a MR5 with an armor set ment for the most dedicated. If they have to login anyway at least keep it prestige.

Lonestar Syandana / Armor Set should be locked at their given login days.

BTW i am at 6xx logins.

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One singular Primed Mod takes 40,920 Endo to Max. There are more than 30 Primed Mods (not including Umbral or other near-prime cost mods like Narrow Minded) so let's ballpark 50 mods that require at or around 40k endo. That's 2,000,000 endo and I'm sure doesn't even cover half of what you actually need. Why is every way of obtaining Endo RNG-based and why is it always such offensively low amounts? 

 

Sorry if I sound rude, but it's like you don't want people play, but say "we want people to play". Reward the players. It's such a slap in the face to farm for hours upon hours (or log in day after day) and get literally nothing in return for it.

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Since you changed the Weapons/Armour to 100, 300, 500... does that mean I won't get the new armor at 1000 days log in if the system comes out before that. I am around 950 days at the moment.

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