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[DE]Rebecca

Daily Tribute Dev Workshop!

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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are also looking into adding a fourth category past the 1000 Milestone with more 'evergreen' rewards'.

The problem there is then we're right back to square one. The only way it works is if those rewards are so superficial that they aren't sufficiently desirable as to be come demotivational to newer players. At which point they aren't going to please the people you're adding them to please either. 

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So, this update is just basically just a slight change to the already existing system? Not a big fan. Would prefer an actual change.

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2 minutes ago, Nosphe57 said:

Hello,
I am 17 days to have zenistar.
he is going to 400 days now ???

Hi there -- the original post has been edited. Weapons will be available on 100/300/500 in respect to the current milestones. 

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Personally I think they could make it one degree more flexible. Like let's say at 50 you can grab Zenistar freely (as an example), but that precludes you from grabbing another weapon for 200 days. So by elimination you'll have to grab the other milestone rewards at some point in the cycle.

So the intent would be the same outcome over a long stretch of time, but allows people to backload or frontload their acquisitions as they want. Maybe you choose to get new weapons ASAP every 200 days, Maybe you try to stack the big rewards to be close to each other with one at the end of a cycle and the other at the start of the next cycle.

So it would be: every 200 day interval you have to pick two resource/sigil packs, one weapon, and one mod, at some point in the milestones in that timeframe. If you pick a weapon and a mod in your first 100 days, you're going to be waiting 150 days before you get a milestone that isn't a sigil pack. So it's more freedom, but still essentially constrained by the same limits without privileging 100-days over 150-days. Just a little bit more control.

(If no-trading remains the rule then the possible worry of creating 50-day Zenistar farm mules is a non-issue also)

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Hope they don´t make the Weapons and Mods tradable, but is there any Plan to really reward People that already have like 900 Days or more( 3 Riven and Forma doesn´t look like a good reward for playing over 2 Years)?

Like give a special Cosmetic Item or anything exclusive to those that reach 1000 Days to show how long they have been supporting this great game 😉

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

I'm 99.999% positive this is pure BS. Look just keep on towing the line and going with the popular sentiment. I don't mind ruffling any feathers, especially if it involves telling the TRUTH.

Why on earth would you assume that's bs? 

I am currently 3 days away from getting the zenistar. If I had bothered to lock into Warframe for the past 2 weeks I would have it, but hey Monster Hunter World came out so I kind of forgot all about Warframe. But I log in 3 more times, for a total of 300 days, and I get the zenistar. Now, why on earth would it bother me in any way at all, that some new player got it right away? It wouldn't change the fact that I have it. It would in fact not affect me or my experience in Warframe even one tiny iota. Being upset about that would be absolutely pointless (and quite petty). And it's not like logging into Warframe for 300 days was a Challenger or an accomplishment. It didn't require any special skills or talents for me to do. 

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I thinks is a bad policy weapons and mods stays in Daily Logins...

One good fix is move that to new achievments, like find all the kurias, scan all cephalon fragments, and so. I don't think that a "wait list" is good to players...

I already have all weapons and warframes, have Mastery Rank 25, and I have to login almost 400 days to get the two weapons I don't have and a player that has Mastery Rank 15 or even lower already have that weapon... Is this fair?

I'm happy that DE is working in changing the Daily Tributes, but I don't think this answer solves the problem.

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Il y a 2 heures, [DE]Taylor a dit :

Nan! Comme vous pouvez le constater dans l'édition (et dans mon commentaire ci-dessus), nous changeons de piste pour respecter les jours jalons originaux. Désolé pour la panique!

2. Armes et équipement. Jours 100, 300, 500, etc. 

OOOUUUUUUFFFFFFFFF 

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1 hour ago, Xavier said:

During the previous Prime Vault in the winter, DE announced plans to introduce a Prime Accessories Pack in some form. The immediate backlash was that the players that had already bought into the Prime Access to get those accessories - when they didn't necessarily need any of the prime frames or weapons that came with them - were being punished for supporting the developers.

DE responded by saying that the Prime Accessory Packs wouldn't be available for that Prime Vault rotation, and that the players that bought those packs - either the original prime access or the Prime Vault packs that were frames, weapons, and accessories all bundled together - had access to those items considerably before anyone that would be getting those cosmetics from future Vault Accessory Packs.

The accessory pack was a feature that had been requested every time the prime vault made an appearance, and when DE listened and announced they were intending to introduce them with the new Prime Vault this summer, there was an immediate backlash from players that thought that others were getting an "easier route" to the content they paid for.

The earlier access to the weapons and prime mods in the current system is a reward for veterans that have been playing this game since the Daily Tribute system was introduced. I am one of those players; I am approaching 950 daily logins. I got to experience the Zenith and the Zenistar on launch before some content creators had time to create videos for them. All of the other systems in Warframe - syndicates, resources, clan research, event weapons, endgame content - are iterative, and tend in the direction of favoring agency on the part of the player and gratifying rewards for participating in the content that DE provides. Why, then, would we expect the Daily Tribute system - which is itself a second iteration upon the daily login rewards - to remain in stasis when the improvements suggested in this workshop improve player agency and a sense of gratification?

In addition, if logging in everyday isn't hard - and I would argue that is the case - then why should we expect *reverence* from DE and the community for doing so? We are not "messiahs" because we have been playing the game longer than other players. We are veterans. We had access to all of the content in the game before these players did, and we have had the privilege - and the detriment - of experiencing these systems as they iterate. That's what we signed up for.

In this workshop, they have delineated a system where we would be getting rewards that were multiple times better than new players for the non-milestone rewards. DE clearly has laid forth a framework where players that have been around a while experience residuals for logging in everyday and supporting Warframe and its community. Don't you think it's more productive to ask for those numbers to be tweaked in our favor than it is to belittle DE for daring to iterate to make the new player experience better?

We don't deserve to be placed on pedestals for being around longer than other players, and it is absurd to me to suggest just because my experience to get access to some content was hard that someone else should have to struggle just as much. Imagine if DE adopted that mindset with the Plains of Eidolon! Everyone that grinded through bounties as they were released would be entitled to ensure that bounties never improved because "they had to grind it the hard way, so everyone else should too". As someone that has done many bounties - from launch until today - I'm glad they're in the state they are now instead of where they were last October.

Your position is antagonistic not only to new players but to the community as a whole because you seem to care more about your status as a player above others than whether or not Warframe's systems improve over time. I invite you to reconsider.

THIS is the best post ive ever read on this forum. AMEN 

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This system doesn't solve the issue where players will still have to play almost 3 years to caught up the rewards, and by them will still be behind 3 years behind someone else.

I proposed something last year but didn't got that much attention here , but people said another system was being made and so got buried

Basically my proposed system would allow players get extra login bonus based on their MR ( higher MR higher bonus logins) until you meet a certain number behind the maximum possible, after that you just get 1 daily tribute.

The fully explanation of my caught system can be found in that thread with examples.

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Ah the daily login/daily quest system, an important yet troublesome part of f2p and MMO game design that drives player-base numbers by keeping players that would normally go inactive at least logging in and doing something rather than wandering off and finding another game.

On the one hand, it's an important part of progression for new players. Getting even one or two extra rare resources from the daily tribute is extremely useful, two Tellurium is enough to build Titania before unlocking Uranus, free blueprints can save a chunk of credits before one has access to The Index, even a forma BP or two before they're easily available is kinda a big deal especially on a weapon with a syndicate effect.

Then you have those in the middle. In what I'd call the mid-game, once you've got the starchart unlocked and your loadout is good enough to do almost any normal content maybe once in a while a rare resource roll will let you skip a farming run, maybe, and extra forma are always nice. In the late-game which I personally consider to be MR 16 as at this point all weapons/frames/rivens are available (not end-game mind you, late-game. Big difference), what resources does a player want? Endo for leveling Prime Mods and multiple copies of Corrupted Mods, Kuva for rolling rivens, syndicate rep for trading syndicate stuff and buying relic packs, focus and lenses, stuff from PoE, and arcanes if one can be bothered to farm eidolons. And that's basically it, everything else is either easily available or is an extremely low drop rate farm like Condition Overload.

For these mid/late (not end) game players, the generic daily rewards are kinda useless, only the 50/100/200 milestones are interesting. These are the players that are most likely to both not care about, and get screwed by the daily tributes. On the one hand they might want say for example Sigma&Octantis, but are more than a year away from getting it. These are the players that need something to change to keep them actually engaged with the daily system.

And then you have the Veteran and End-game players. These players already have their 900 or more rewards, and there is nothing, literally, nothing, that you can put on the daily tributes that can impact their gameplay. They already have stocks of 100 forma already built, collected every frame and put a rector in it, mastered every weapon and kept/catad/formad their favorites. What they want is their exclusives, syandanas, glyphs, palates, armors. And more importantly they want their exclusives to stay exclusive to those that have dedicated themselves to the game.

And there's the rub. You need the vets to be satisfied with the system and its exclusives because they buy prime accesses, plat, and other accessories. You need newer players to be able to catch up in progression so they don't simply abandon the game when they see all this cool stuff gated behind literal years of time. And you need to solve the problem of the player with the time to hit late-game without all that many login days. This...is basically a mutually exclusive design problem, not even really a warframe problem, just a flaw inherent in the concept of daily quests and daily logins in general.

Far be it for me to point out the inherent flaws in a system without offering some potential solution for discussion/consideration.

The way I see it, there are two types of milestone reward #50 rewards are cosmetics with some sort of thing added on to them. #00 rewards are mechanical rewards, that is to say weapons and prime mods. Of course that pattern has been broken with the 800+ tributes, but you'll see my reasoning for pointing it out, and it might be worth shuffling a few rewards plus of minus 50 days to restore this pattern.

What one could do is have a daily tribute, and a daily goal. These daily goals wouldn't be available immediately and should be gated behind something that shows you're ready to push the progression. I'd go with all Junctions unlocked, TWW, one eidolon down, unveil three rivens. Once you have this system unlocked it'd work much like the extra goals in missions, this would be an extra goal that you're presented when you login to your orbiter for the first time (and can be checked in the menu, naturally).

These daily goals should be...easy but not simple...something like complete one of each mission type at level 30+ solo, or 100 headshots with a thrown melee weapon, something that takes longer than a riven quest and is completable across multiple missions and mission types. When you complete the goal, you get a roll on the 'everyday' rewards, this however wouldn't progress your login days counter but act as its own counter for another purpose.

That purpose? Early unlocks for _*some*_ types of rewards. When the total of your login days, and your daily goals complete equals the number of days to unlock a weapon, or prime mod, and _*only*_ a weapon or prime mod, then you'd get that unlock early. This alleviates some of the problems with progression, while leaving the exclusives for the dedicated players intact.

Then the only remaining issue is the hardest of grinders...the ones that make MR 20+ in two to three months...that's a bit trickier. Some way to get another daily goal once it's complete would work, as that would only affect the progression items, and not the exclusives. It would have to be something that is obtainable but in low enough quantities that getting more than say five in a day is not exactly feasible without a good bit of luck....This might be a solid extra use for Synthetic Eidolon Shards.

Wow..that's a doozy of a post...I should tl;dr this...but nope, the complexity is too high for a tl;dr.

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vor 27 Minuten schrieb rune_me:

I would say awesome, good for student X, like any sane person would. Since I would have known personally how hard and difficult it was to study, I would of course be happy for anyone who didn't have to go through that nonsense. And since students X's grade, whether he failed or got an A, in no way, shape or form would affect me or my grade, there's no reason at all why I shouldn't be happy for him. Unless of course I was a petty miserable human being.

This sounds like generation entitlement all over again.

"No i don't want to work for that but i deserve to have it anyways"

How can someone appreciate the grade he was given without working for it. Same goes for the login rewards.

The best example you basically made yourself. If you get an A in your test and the guy that walks in gets the same thing, what does that say about your A? No Skill or effort recquired!

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24 minutes ago, Andrew7811 said:

This does not solve the issue I, a MR 25 player, with almost 900 login day reward, have when it comes to inviting new players to the game. I do not like to have to tell them that you will need to play for two to three straight years just to get ALL of the login gear.

Why even bring it up? A new player has so much other stuff to do and figure out if they even stick with the game long to reach their first milestone. It's not they'll be able to max a primed mod any time soon and there are oodles of more readily available fun weapons to play with.

I would think it would be far more disheartening to hear that the cool frame or weapon they want is currently vaulted, or that it takes 3.5 days to build a new frame after you've farmed it's bps and collected the resources, etc. The existence of login rewards shouldn't even be a blip on their radar.

I've read some compelling arguments for further changes, but this?!?

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if scaling rewards will be a thing, maybe you should add the free plat again. But use reverse scaling. New players need the plat more. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This is very disappointing. I was under the impression that this was going to be reworked to fix the issue of it taking literally years to catch up and obtain all the equipment. These proposed changes will not fix this issue. All it will change is that you'll be able to pick the order you get things in, but you'll still have to wait 200 days for the chance to make that choice, and you'll still have to log in every day for literally years in order to get everything. Please rethink this.

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So let's say you can pick whatever you want from the pool every 50 days. ~~~oh no~~~ now players can have all the weapons in 200 days!! My prestige!!!! DE how could you!!!

That's not actually a problem. That's a good thing, and the 700 day wait to be able to tick off the final bits of MR available is really annoying. Honestly it was less annoying back when the weapons were hidden in my profile but now the Zenith and S&O are greyed out and taunting me.

Also, new players aren't going to do that. Potatoes and boosters are incredibly valuable to newer players, and I wouldn't be surprised if new players would honestly just prefer to take those rewards at 50 and 100, and maybe even 150! I dunno. But let's say a new player wants only the exclusive stuff: the four weapons, the three useful primed mods. That's still 350 days of logins to get it all. That's still a year of logging in. That's long enough.

There's a lot of posts in this thread from angry vets moaning about how it's not fair that new players won't have to slog like they did, and that's really hurtful and backwards thinking and doesn't help the game get better. I suspect it's not just vitriol from those vets that makes DE reluctant to have it be a 50-day-whatever-you-want system, but also some internal reasoning. I don't know what that reasoning is (and I hope it's not just "mhm yes players should have to log in every day for two years to get all the weapons in the game yes good"), but yikes. This rework as it's proposed really doesn't do all that much. At the very least just put the weapons and the mods in the same 100-day pool, but a 50-day-whatever-you-want would be so much better. Exclude the cosmetics, sure. Throw the vets a bone. If it's useful, let new people have it.

 

Also, sending out my thoughts & prayers to any newbies that pick Primed Sure Footed as their first primed mod, you poor things.

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I say of they are really going to switch it to the new log in system then they do this
Our current log ins stay as is until our next milestone while having the new system. Kinda like 2 dailies until the original milestone is reached. After that new log in system will take control. Thats only if they decide to keep it this way

Edited by (PS4)DIZZYRATCHET
Maybe it should even be every 100th day milestone since 50 day milestones shouldnt count to abandon the old system

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Casualising the login rewards but will there ever be something that locked behind a time wall that shows how long you played?

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3 minutes ago, GA-Bulletproof said:

How can someone appreciate the grade he was given without working for it. Same goes for the login rewards.

There is however no "working for it" with the login rewards. No effort is required to type in your password. Thinking that that is work, and that by logging into an account you deserve a special price (because yay, you remembered your password) IS the very definition of "generation entitlement". Oh look, I was there, now give me a trophy.

5 minutes ago, GA-Bulletproof said:

The best example you basically made yourself. If you get an A in your test and the guy that walks in gets the same thing, what does that say about your A? No Skill or effort recquired!

Someone else's grade would have no impact or effect on mine, at all. If I put skill and effort into my work, then I would proud of that. I could care less about the grade.

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With the discussion around the new tribute system people have either enjoyed it or have been up in arms. Those people who are angery are generally those who are close to let’s day 300 days and now they’ll have to wait until 400 to get the weapon they want. Well I have a solution for that 

I call it the legacy system:

heres how it works

the current pile of daily weapons will be renamed to “legacy” versions (ex. Legacy Zenith, Legacy Azima. Etc.) These legacy weapons can be traded, not by player to player but to a faction (the one I have in mind is cephalon suda). These legacy items are one time trade with suda to obtain “normal” versions of the daily weapons. This will allow lots of players getting screwed over by the new system to trade in a legacy weapon and get the one they want. Along with this, I propose the legacy weapons get a slight visual tweak (give them gold trimmings or something along those lines). A huge complaint of the new system is the lack of prestige for the veterans. If you are a veteran you can strut the same weapon as everybody else (stat wise) but you have a cooler version of it. 

This system solves many things:

people getting screwed over by the new days 

veterans who want the prestige of the weapon 

and it just looks cooler

 

i would love to see this implemented as I really want to get my hands on some of the daily tribute weapons but understand and respect the anger of the veterans. Thanks!

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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

On the new system it now scales based on the amount of days you have logged on. They increase by 25% for every 50 days. So for the example of Endo, the starting value will be 50 Endo, someone at 400 days, will get 3x the rewards as someone just starting, 150 Endo. For the veterans on day 900, it would be 275 Endo. This is just free Endo for logging in that now scales better - we know that’s not headline news, but it is better.

 

MR

Old Endo Average

 

Days

New Endo Average

1

50

 

1

50

5

57.5

 

200

100

10

65

 

400

150

15

72.5

 

600

200

20

80

 

800

250

25

80

 

1000

300

Wile grateful that the rewards now increase with time, i do feel they are still not very significant, considering a player of any Rank can get over 400 Endo as a single mission reward in 5 minutes or Less (Defense/Excavation).

I think these rewards should also scale with the player`s MR Rank, not only to give newer players more reasons to invest in gaining Mastery Rank but also to give players that have dedicated them self to the game for longer, something that is more proportional to a Sorties reward (Which any player can still earn far more than in a day with a few hours playing).

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Please make resource "scaling" be not only about the number of the resource that you get but also the type of resource that you get.  What I mean by that is a MR 4 player is probably happy to get 1 or 2 orokin cells from login.  At MR25 and sitting on 600 orokin cells already the game could give me 1 or 50 more and I just wouldn't care either way. 

Now give me a cetus wisp or a nyth or a nitain and that I would care about even if it was just 1 or 2. 

Most importantly as the game evolves update the system to give the new stuff.  It should be obvious that the three things I listed off as stuff I would want are both harder to get and newer to the game.  Fortuna is going to dump who knows how much new stuff on us that we going to start at zero with.  Getting that stuff from login would be a welcome bonus.

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7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

EDIT - 2:31 PM EST

After reading your feedback, we are switching the tracks for Primed Mods and Weapons/Equipment to respect current milestones. The main post has been edited to reflect this change, here's the list of updated tracks for posterity:

1. Sigils and Resources. Days 50, 150, 250, etc.

2. Weapons and Equipment. Days 100, 300, 500, etc. 

3. Primed Mods. Days 200, 400, 600, etc.

So i need to wait another 130 days for primed sure footed which was suppose on day 900 now become 1000? i should be get it in 1 month according to current system tho, It's 4 months more, even tho many people think it useless mods, but i want it and quite anticipating it and you increase it to 4 more months that's not fair, how about applying this change after people get past their current milestone?

Or

How about making old+new login existing together, so for example on day 900, we can choose 1 from either primed sure footed (old login) or weapons/equipments (new login)?

Edited by BabyPhon
Making quote shorter+another idea
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