Daily Tribute Dev Workshop!

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

DE is not giving us login rewards, they are trying to boost their daily numbers. 

Funny. I get one every day when I log in for the first time. Pretty sure that everyone else is getting them as well. I am fairly certain that you even made the point that there are folks who just log in to collect the daily gift and don't even bother to play. 

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

The login rewards can be done without even playing but if that is what DE values then it is their choice to give a reward for meeting their predefined conditions. 

See? And yet you're saying that they don't give those to us? 

 

Other than that you seem to be hung up on the idea that gift = pure altruism. That's just not true. Altruism is a concept that's wonderful in theory, but under a cynical examination it becomes impossible to prove that it exists. 

Personally I don't care if my logins helps boost their numbers. What matters to me is that even when I was out of starter plat, I'd get something just for choosing to play. To be absolutely clear here, that's something you and I didn't pay for, or have any right to demand. That's a gift, my friend, no matter how much you want to try and deny it. 

[Sahansral]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

Funny. I get one every day when I log in for the first time. Pretty sure that everyone else is getting them as well. I am fairly certain that you even made the point that there are folks who just log in to collect the daily gift and don't even bother to play. 

 

See? And yet you're saying that they don't give those to us? 

 

Other than that you seem to be hung up on the idea that gift = pure altruism. That's just not true. Altruism is a concept that's wonderful in theory, but under a cynical examination it becomes impossible to prove that it exists. 

Personally I don't care if my logins helps boost their numbers. What matters to me is that even when I was out of starter plat, I'd get something just for choosing to play. To be absolutely clear here, that's something you and I didn't pay for, or have any right to demand. That's a gift, my friend, no matter how much you want to try and deny it. 

Your premise is that people log in no matter what. At a point in your Warframe "career" you basically have everthing done that you bother to do (that point differs individually).

The current system motivates everyone to log in no matter what - keeping up the good numbers for Warframe even in times of a content drought like now before a big update.

If people want to implement a system that stops giving exclusive rewards login numbers will fluctuate much more during the year. I claim that more people would take longer hiatuses or just stop playing the game by letting the game slip out of their daily routine. I consider that group much larger that the one that leaves the game because of 0,05% of game content they can't have immediately.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Sahansral said:

If people want to implement a system that stops giving exclusive rewards login numbers will fluctuate much more during the year.

Let's start here because it's important to make it clear. A brief examination of the initial post shows that there's no push from DE to remove the exclusivity of the daily login rewards. The change suggests that we will have the agency to choose from the pools of rewards at specific milestones. As several have noted that does not actually reduce the number of logins required to get all of the rewards. 

 

59 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

 Your premise is that people log in no matter what.

Not quite, it's that we log in if we want to. If we really don't want to, we will stop doing it. There's no "reward" of the type that we get, that will keep a person logging in every day forever. At some point, different for each of us, everyone will eventually stop. 

59 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

The current system motivates everyone to log in no matter what - keeping up the good numbers for Warframe even in times of a content drought like now before a big update.

See above. 

1 hour ago, Sahansral said:

I claim that more people would take longer hiatuses or just stop playing the game by letting the game slip out of their daily routine.

It's possible, however as I said at the beginning, that's not what they proposed, and sooner or later, we all stop. 

1 hour ago, Sahansral said:

I consider that group much larger that the one that leaves the game because of 0,05% of game content they can't have immediately.

Yes but it's probably also significantly smaller than the number who leave before maxing out their very first sentinel while there's still a whole star chart left to explore. 

[Sahansral]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

Let's start here because it's important to make it clear. A brief examination of the initial post shows that there's no push from DE to remove the exclusivity of the daily login rewards. The change suggests that we will have the agency to choose from the pools of rewards at specific milestones. As several have noted that does not actually reduce the number of logins required to get all of the rewards.

Yes but it's probably also significantly smaller than the number who leave before maxing out their very first sentinel while there's still a whole star chart left to explore. 

Well first, my arguments are more aimed towards the posters who wish to remove all exclusive rewards from the system altogether by reasoning that all rewards are gifts that are only bonus without counterperformance.

Second, also it also heavily depends on what "evergreens" past 1000 days are. If "evergreens" means stuff I already have at that point, I simply stop care about logins. If the system doesn't give new exlusive content beyond day 1000 and let's people cherrypick the rewards, imho it'll stop working when players only have the "bad" rewards left to choose.

 

And regarding the players who abandon Warframe in the early stages of the game: I think the login reward system hardly affects them. Here DE should spend more effort into tutorials and toning down grind walls.   

[----Legacy----]

21 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If it's something you didn't pay for, and it's given it's a gift. I give my coworkers and acquaintances gifts, but I don't go around giving gifts to other people's coworkers and acquaintances. The condition there is "be a coworker or acquaintance". I give some people gifts for their children, but unless they are already on my list of "people whose children I'm buying stuff for" then their kids don't get a gift. Same goes for coworkers who quit, neighbours who have moved, and inlaws who are not really inlaws anymore because of a divorce or whatever. I don't consider myself under any obligation to give them anything. If they're lucky they'll get one of the email cards with a video of a puppy or kitten under a Christmas tree or whatever. 

Your whole argument seems to forget the existence of rewards, which are things given for free to those who manage to do something, in this scenario, logging in a certain amount of days which doesn't even have to be in a row.

Might sound dumb, but trying to change the system now is as dumb as saying that everyone has the right to be the worker of the month once in a while, no matter how lazy they are. Turning rewards into gifts achieves nothing but to defeat their original purpose.

[True_Naeblis]

It's clear the purpose of the rewards is to entice players to be on every day so that DE's Steam/internal numbers will stay high and stable. They have two companies that have large financial stakes in them, and there's no doubt that's something that comes into play here. I wouldn't be surprised if there are reports showing that getting players on every day makes them more apt to spend more money in total than those who play sporadically for longer average times each session. It's about keeping metrics in the right place. If this system were designed to reward players for being active in the game, for participating in Warframe, then there wouldn't be Beta players and multi-year vets sitting on so few premium items. Weapons and mods that affect game play should not be time gated this way. I can only imagine if this were some progression-based MMO with actual gear locked behind a 600 or 1000 day login wall.

Bottom line is that while some long time players might be upset about newer players getting rewards sooner, the change will be beneficial not only for players just entering the game, but also other veterans who have been playing for years but are unable to login every day or simply get bored after weeks or months of playing and take a break. Trying to force people who have spend hundreds to thousands of hours in game and spend real money on Warframe to deal with logging in each and every single day just to inflate numbers is not good design. DE can act as they like and no doubt will in the end, but I see it being detrimental in the long run to keep the current system in place. It's actually one of the things that turned me off of GW2, knowing that I would be falling behind in gaining rewards if I didn't login literally every single day regardless of if I wanted to play that day or not. Please stop gating useful items behind years of logins and set login rewards to cosmetics only. That, or drop the time between rewards to 30 days and let people choose what they want at each milestone.

No fix is going to be perfect, but the proposed solution right now is not a fix at all, it's just a slight tweak to a still bad system.

[----Legacy----]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

the login reward system is flawed. Players play Warframe because it has something new they want to experience or because they enjoy the gameplay.

The system is flawed because it lacks instant gratification, which is fine since DE added it as a way to reward long time players and respect their time in warframe. I've been here since 2014 but barely ever play or login at this point due to whatever reason, so i don't deserve any of the rewards beyond what i already have, let alone all of them.

The keyword here is "wait". Players at the head of the login system are rewarded with new shinies that nobody wants since these don't exist in the game until they are getting closer, however, players behind them see the new shiny and want it asap, they can't wait to fulfill the requirement set to get it and refuse to recognize the long time that those players have been playing or logging in in order to get those things.

I also think that having time walls set in the future is way more acceptable and realistic than "never coming back" walls set in the past.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

49 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Your whole argument seems to forget the existence of rewards, which are things given for free to those who manage to do something, in this scenario, logging in a certain amount of days which doesn't even have to be in a row.

Might sound dumb, but trying to change the system now is as dumb as saying that everyone has the right to be the worker of the month once in a while, no matter how lazy they are. Turning rewards into gifts achieves nothing but to defeat their original purpose.

Looks like you didn't actually look at my arguments. 

I've said repeatedly that there's nothing wrong with the system as it exists or the proposed changes. The actual rewards are already gifts that we never pay for, and have no right to demand. Yes they help to encourage us to boost the numbers, but we don't actually need daily rewards for that, do we, just the milestones. Unlike most, I admit to being grateful for some of the stuff I get between those milestone events.

16 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

The system is flawed because it lacks instantgratification, which is fine since DE added it as a way to reward long time players and respect their time in warframe.

That's what half of the people are saying. The other half says it's broken because it doesn't protect their exclusivity and imaginary prestige. 

 

Folks like you, who can take it or leave it, are mainly unicorns right now. The whole time I've been responding to this thread, it's been a bunch of folks kicking a fuss about something, but I can't for the life of me, figure out why. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

DE is not giving us login rewards, they are trying to boost their daily numbers. We are doing the favor for DE, not the other way around. That's why login rewards are not a gift. If anything they are the carrot on the stick to keep this treadmill going.

I'm fine with that. Keeps my favorite game alive and benefits me at the same time. Logging in, which takes about 30 seconds, is something you can do before you go to bed every night. Easy way to support our game.

[Zahnny]

If you guys haven't caught on to him trolling I seriously worry.

[LuckyCharm]

Doing something over and over to recieve rewards is essentially farming.  Farming is free to do,  but you still need to do it if you want enough resources to build or research something.  

Thats all the login system is,  youre farming for a resource (days logged in)  to be able to "afford" your next milestone. That's why they arent gifts and do take work,  because you essentially have to pay for them with time and effort, however much that may be for some people.  The same as any other item in this game,  only without the rng

[SephirothWS]

Here's a real problem of the login tribute system. Older folk who are at 1,000 logins and keep logging in on a daily basis will continue to have 1,000 more logins than a newer player such as myself who's only in the early 100s. By the time I am to reach 1,000 logins in about 2½ years time, said veteran will be sitting on their 1,900th login, and us newer folk will never see the light of day of being considered an equal. ... as far as logins goes. I'd honestly be more apt to a monthly-based system that others have mentioned and one that doesn't keep track of the ridiculous number of days one has simply logged in to the game.

[wizardeiges]

Why not let us choose any low tier stuff like sigils and reactor packs at 50 logins and any primed mod or weapon on every 100 days and keep the more vanity stuff like sydannas at day 310+?
Vanity items are more loyalty items than anything else. Raid sekharas,event and faction sydanas,event sigils,etc. they're symbols of prestige. A weapon 9/10 ends up just being MR fodder and keeping MR fodder behind such length daily login records is unpleasant. 
Logging in for a THOUSAND days is crazy. I just recently got my zenistar and I can't believe I dropped whatever I was doing every day to get a single weapon that took making it a daily chore for almost an entire year to obtain. Fun weapon but it was grating getting it.  I really want sigma and octanis but I fear the game becoming incredibly boring due to being overplayed while I wait well over a year just to see if I even like using the weapon and adding it to my MR wall of weapons....

It's clear you prefer short bursts of gameplay over marathons for players due to no scaling rewards currently in the game so I ask that login gear is easier to obtain.

Another cool option would be to remove the weapons involving MR completely from the daily login rewards and move them to be end tier faction rewards or something.  Then add new vanity items to the daily login system so it isn't so empty. Could keep the prime mods in the login system since theyre more about maximizing builds due to regular variants existing outside of the daily login.  This way the people who stick to loging in get prestige items they want and those of us who just want to experiment with new weapons and level up get gear to have fun with. 

I'm already MR 25. I've leveled all factions for their weapons and sydanas. I feel like I've done pretty much everything available to me.Yet Seeing empty grayed out spaces in my weapon list digs at me inside since i'll never be able to fill out the list in under a year no matter how much I play the game in that year.


Either way,the new changes proposed are at least better than the current system. *thumbs up*

[Sahansral]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb SephirothWS:

Here's a real problem of the login tribute system. Older folk who are at 1,000 logins and keep logging in on a daily basis will continue to have 1,000 more logins than a newer player such as myself who's only in the early 100s. By the time I am to reach 1,000 logins in about 2½ years time, said veteran will be sitting on their 1,900th login, and us newer folk will never see the light of day of being considered an equal. ... as far as logins goes. I'd honestly be more apt to a monthly-based system that others have mentioned and one that doesn't keep track of the ridiculous number of days one has simply logged in to the game.

Well, if someone joined three years before you and keeps on staying with the game, why should he considered an equal "... as far as logins goes"?

 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

15 hours ago, Zahnny said:

If you guys haven't caught on to him trolling I seriously worry.

Is it because you would have to question your position? Or that folks can actually disagree and that's okay? 

12 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

That's why they arent gifts and do take work,  because you essentially have to pay for them with time and effort, however much that may be for some people.  The same as any other item in this game,  only without the rng

I understand that position, but disagree. We have people arguing that the logins are worthless because they can be done in seconds without actual effort. When we add up the actual time the mechanic takes, what are we talking about? An hour or two in total? And don't forget that totals a thousand things over that time, not just the milestones. 

And most of the other things in the game can be brought. 

 

10 hours ago, SephirothWS said:

Here's a real problem of the login tribute system. Older folk who are at 1,000 logins and keep logging in on a daily basis will continue to have 1,000 more logins than a newer player such as myself who's only in the early 100s.

That's not a problem. The problem is that you think that it's a race, that you think that you should compare yourself to others. Don't do that. Comparison is the thief of joy. 

 

1 hour ago, wizardeiges said:

I just recently got my zenistar and I can't believe I dropped whatever I was doing every day to get a single weapon that took making it a daily chore for almost an entire year to obtain.

Why did you do that to yourself? 

[True_Naeblis]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Why did you do that to yourself? 

Because it's human nature. The systems in these games are designed to entice people to pour themselves into the game so that they don't fall behind others. I'm not sure why it surprises you that someone would push themselves to login every day for years when people do something much more time consuming like grinding content for hours a day with almost no breaks to keep up in many other titles. People want to stay relevant in games they play, they want to have the same experience as others if there's a clear path to obtaining the same items that they do, and it's hard for many to pull away once the temptation sets in. That's exactly the issue, though. The current login system feeds into people being hooked to the game and knowing that they're falling behind more each day that they don't login and can never, ever make up for it.

For me it just got tedious. I play when there's content I want to experience, when I decide to make a weapon that I haven't tried yet, or when the mood strikes. The revamp makes it clear that DE's concern is their metrics, not how active players are in game, with the community, etc. They want login numbers to stay high and to stay stable, not to make sure that those who put in the most to the game are rewarded for their effort. I get that they can't just come flat out and say that, but the revamp to the login system shows exactly that. New players will still see that their loyalty and ability to gain some of the best mods and weapons in game is tied to logging in every day for years if they want them all, and many will accept that.

[DeliciousD81]

Hi,

I am at 96 days. I would love to play, but I do not want to miss my 100 tribute weapon. Any news on when this is going to be released?

Thanks in advance!

[DeliciousD81]

Hi,

I am at 96 days. I would love to play, but I do not want to miss my 100 tribute weapon. Any news on when this is going to be released?

Thanks in advance!

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

6 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

Because it's human nature. The systems in these games are designed to entice people to pour themselves into the game so that they don't fall behind others. I'm not sure why it surprises you that someone would push themselves to login every day for years when people do something much more time consuming like grinding content for hours a day with almost no breaks to keep up in many other titles. People want to stay relevant in games they play, they want to have the same experience as others if there's a clear path to obtaining the same items that they do, and it's hard for many to pull away once the temptation sets in. That's exactly the issue, though. The current login system feeds into people being hooked to the game and knowing that they're falling behind more each day that they don't login and can never, ever make up for it.

For me it just got tedious. I play when there's content I want to experience, when I decide to make a weapon that I haven't tried yet, or when the mood strikes. The revamp makes it clear that DE's concern is their metrics, not how active players are in game, with the community, etc. They want login numbers to stay high and to stay stable, not to make sure that those who put in the most to the game are rewarded for their effort. I get that they can't just come flat out and say that, but the revamp to the login system shows exactly that. New players will still see that their loyalty and ability to gain some of the best mods and weapons in game is tied to logging in every day for years if they want them all, and many will accept that.

So, what you're really saying, is that you don't do that to yourself and instead only play if you want to? 

Maybe it's just me, but this is a game. If I don't enjoy it, then there's not much point, is there? It's like the people who were complaining about how they had to give up time with friends, family and even their dog to do a grind that they hated. I played the event, and had a good time. I didn't try to burn myself out trying to convince the RNG that I should get some specific drop this time. 

Why should I care about how far anyone else has gotten? The only things that matter is if I have gotten further since the last time I played, and if I'm having fun. Let the people at the front of the pack, be there, they earned it. I'll get to where they're at eventually. It's not hurting me in any way. 

[LSG501]

40 minutes ago, DeliciousD81 said:

Hi,

I am at 96 days. I would love to play, but I do not want to miss my 100 tribute weapon. Any news on when this is going to be released?

Thanks in advance!

Just keep playing... you will still get your 100 day reward, it will just be using the current system instead of the proposed one so it will be the azima. 

[Nitro747]

It's time to put an end to the Milestones rewards, add a way for people who can't play every day to catch up and add a decent way to thank players for playing for so long.

Daily Login Milestones rewards nothing but a player's capacity to play a videogame every day, not for how long they've been supporting the game or anything of the sort.

You guys should also scale the common rewards from low level missions according to MR. It's mind boggling farming, say, Meso relics and receive as a reward 15 endo or a common mod, something that is a common drop from enemies, or a 2000 credits cache, which is a ridiculously low amount. At least this way people would have a better reason to do the alerts and to farm stuff that is gated behind "low level" content.

[AbsolvedJudas]

If this is implemented I think it should come with a one time choice where all current players are able to pick a single reward they are eligible for, Be it weapons, sigils and Forma, if they’ve logged enough days under the new system, they get to pick one when the change comes in

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

You guys are seriously over thinking this system.

[True_Naeblis]

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So, what you're really saying, is that you don't do that to yourself and instead only play if you want to? 

Maybe it's just me, but this is a game. If I don't enjoy it, then there's not much point, is there? It's like the people who were complaining about how they had to give up time with friends, family and even their dog to do a grind that they hated. I played the event, and had a good time. I didn't try to burn myself out trying to convince the RNG that I should get some specific drop this time. 

Why should I care about how far anyone else has gotten? The only things that matter is if I have gotten further since the last time I played, and if I'm having fun. Let the people at the front of the pack, be there, they earned it. I'll get to where they're at eventually. It's not hurting me in any way. 

Yes, I like you only play if I want to, and I like you can't be bothered to be attached to the game when I don't want to be. Many other simply can't walk away and DE knows that. There are studies galore on why that is and everyone from Columbia House Music to gaming publishers have and do continue to take advantage of that nature. People don't want to feel left behind, people don't want to feel like they're missing out. people don't want to feel like they aren't having the same experience as others.

Should people care that someone has some items that they don't? That's all relative. Primed Shred, Primed Vigor, Zenistar, Azima, and on and on do offer advantages and can only be had via login rewards. As I said elsewhere, it's silly as the day is long that they tie items that actually alter game play to login rewards. If you could only get BiS items in other games by logging in day after day players would riot. Here it's not as big of a deal because there's no content that you're actually locked out of by not having those items, but it is still a ridiculous system

Regardless, page after page shows that things as they are and the slight tweak coming don't fix the real issue: that DE wants your time every day of the week, every week of the year, every year the game is in existence if you want to get all the rewards. I choose not to dedicate myself to such an empty system, but many players have let themselves be drawn in and won't walk away easily. Again, it's a facet of behavioral science that for many the draw will keep them logging in and DE takes advantage of that to pad their login numbers, just as Guild Wars 2 does, just as many other titles do.

[wizardeiges]

8 hours ago, True_Naeblis said:

Because it's human nature. The systems in these games are designed to entice people to pour themselves into the game so that they don't fall behind others. I'm not sure why it surprises you that someone would push themselves to login every day for years when people do something much more time consuming like grinding content for hours a day with almost no breaks to keep up in many other titles. People want to stay relevant in games they play, they want to have the same experience as others if there's a clear path to obtaining the same items that they do, and it's hard for many to pull away once the temptation sets in. That's exactly the issue, though. The current login system feeds into people being hooked to the game and knowing that they're falling behind more each day that they don't login and can never, ever make up for it.

For me it just got tedious. I play when there's content I want to experience, when I decide to make a weapon that I haven't tried yet, or when the mood strikes. The revamp makes it clear that DE's concern is their metrics, not how active players are in game, with the community, etc. They want login numbers to stay high and to stay stable, not to make sure that those who put in the most to the game are rewarded for their effort. I get that they can't just come flat out and say that, but the revamp to the login system shows exactly that. New players will still see that their loyalty and ability to gain some of the best mods and weapons in game is tied to logging in every day for years if they want them all, and many will accept that.

Wrong,for me at least. I'm a completionist and it's hard for me to play a different game when I feel I haven't completed the current one I'm playing. It's very frustrating that my leveling up experience is severely halted because not that I don't play the game enough,but that I didn't start playing 3 years ago to get a weapon for some MR fodder.
It has nothing to do with other players having more fancy things than me. I want everything for me because I want to complete. Not compete.

I've maxed all factions including conclave for all available weapons,armor,and sigils. I've played the ever loving hell out of warframe. But none of that matters because no matter what I do i'll never have things like sigma and octanis unless I drop everything that i'm doing every.single.day. to login and get a mark to show that I..am loyal to the game enough for some more MR fodder? that doesn't even make sense.  My loyalty is shown through my hours played,factions completed,all frames and 99.99999% of weapons,fashionframe,and my giving actual money to DE to support the game financially.    But hey,I'm still not allowed to the MR fodder because i didnt play the game 3 years ago. That's just silly.

I understand why excal prime was only for those that invested in the game that everyone thought would fail. They deserve excal prime. The whole reason why any of us can play this game today is because they took a chance with warframe and I'm grateful.

Daily login weapons aren't the same thing though. I want to see weapons removed from the daily login because they're crucial to game progression due to them being MR fodder.  Replace them with primed mods or more vanity items for those that want prestige through true endgame,fashionframe.

Move weapons to a new factions or make them end tier rewards for current factions. I'm so tired of dropping everything every day for something I feel shouldn't be so massively gated off since they're required to actually level up and make progress and fill out the weapon collection grid.

New content brings in loads of new players and keeps oldies coming back which is cool. The login system should reward players with prestige like sigils,armor,and sydannas or even sehkaras. Locking MR progress behind a 2 year time gate is silly.