[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

1 hour ago, Fonk said:

Guilty! I wanted more of the vampire (Vlad) theme than the Eidolon. It's a fair call out lol. Either way, I hope they're still tweaking!

I would save that for a different frame. I like revenant better eidolon themed.

[ThatRoomba]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

I would save that for a different frame. I like revenant better eidolon themed.

Well, again, he was originally pitched as Vlad the vampire.

I'm not at all sure how the current one fits the eidolon theme either. Other than his silly passive! A more unified identity will be appreciated regardless which they choose.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

1 hour ago, Fonk said:

Well, again, he was originally pitched as Vlad the vampire.

I'm not at all sure how the current one fits the eidolon theme either. Other than his silly passive! A more unified identity will be appreciated regardless which they choose.

you're forgetting the fact that his 4th ability is a very prominent eidolon theme. His 2nd ability mesmer skin represents the defenses that you have to go through before actually damaging the eidolon himself. The 3rd ability is basically a vomvalyst charge/eidolon retreat.

The only ability that is actually has a vampire theme is his 1st ability. But even then you can see these thralls from his 1st ability represent vamvalyst with the vamvalyst mask you on the enemy when enthralled.

[Urlan]

12 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

you're forgetting the fact that his 4th ability is a very prominent eidolon theme. His 2nd ability mesmer skin represents the defenses that you have to go through before actually damaging the eidolon himself. The 3rd ability is basically a vomvalyst charge/eidolon retreat.

The only ability that is actually has a vampire theme is his 1st ability. But even then you can see these thralls from his 1st ability represent vamvalyst with the vamvalyst mask you on the enemy when enthralled.

Actually they are not, as no Eidolons has Danse Macabre or an equivalent, the closest being the Gantulyst's version of skyfall, doing a laser disco-ball from the sky. If you are thinking a shard of Hunhow's energy core disco-ball, Hunhow is not an Eidolon and the warframe is pulling from an Eidolon. Mesmer skin doesn't have an equivalent on the Eidolon since the Eidolon's 'defenses' are invulnerable shields and the creature ignores all status effects, which Revenant does not, and the Mesmer skin is not, as it just blocks targeted shots and does nothing against things like Ancient Toxin sneezes. Reave visually is the same charge as a Vomvalyst, despite that not being a main-line Eidolon, it could count, but they do not leech life or shields with such a charge and phase-shift until rebuilding their corporeal form making them immune again to all damage but void energy or sunlight during this time.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

1 minute ago, Urlan said:

Actually they are not, as no Eidolons has Danse Macabre or an equivalent, the closest being the Gantulyst's version of skyfall, doing a laser disco-ball from the sky. If you are thinking a shard of Hunhow's energy core disco-ball, Hunhow is not an Eidolon and the warframe is pulling from an Eidolon. Mesmer skin doesn't have an equivalent on the Eidolon since the Eidolon's 'defenses' are invulnerable shields and the creature ignores all status effects, which Revenant does not, and the Mesmer skin is not, as it just blocks targeted shots and does nothing against things like Ancient Toxin sneezes. Reave visually is the same charge as a Vomvalyst, despite that not being a main-line Eidolon, it could count, but they do not leech life or shields with such a charge and phase-shift until rebuilding their corporeal form making them immune again to all damage but void energy or sunlight during this time.

1. Idk how you think his 4th ability laser attack has barely anything to with the eidolons laser attacks. It may not be exactly like the gantulyst, but it's close enough.

2. mesmer skin is not exactly like an eidolon shield but it is a close enough representation. Before you can actually damage the eidolon himself, you must first get rid of his defenses through the use of the operator. Mesmer skin is the defense that they have to go through before actually damaging revenant himself. Since enemies don't have void damage and we want an ability to be close enough to an eidolons defenses without being op. The way mesmer skin works serves it's purpose as a close enough representation. Plus the ability still has some bugs that needs to be squashed out.

3. Abilities do not have to be the exact copies to be like [insert theme here]. It just has to be close enough to the theme. Now for how much is close enough depends on multiple different factors.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

1. Idk how you think his 4th ability laser attack has barely anything to with the eidolons laser attacks. It may not be exactly like the gantulyst, but it's close enough.

2. mesmer skin is not exactly like an eidolon shield but it is a close enough representation. Before you can actually damage the eidolon himself, you must first get rid of his defenses through the use of the operator. Mesmer skin is the defense that they have to go through before actually damaging revenant himself. Since enemies don't have void damage and we want an ability to be close enough to an eidolons defenses without being op. The way mesmer skin works serves it's purpose as a close enough representation. Plus the ability still has some bugs that needs to be squashed out.

3. Abilities do not have to be the exact copies to be like [insert theme here]. It just has to be close enough to the theme. Now for how much is close enough depends on multiple different factors.

It may be only vaguely similar to the Gantulyst yes, due to the Gantulyst's skyfall starting a laser spinning around a central point floating high in the sky above the Eidolon. No other Eidolon has such an attack or whips lasers around spinning for that matter, even the Gantulyst. They do however, all have a big Laser Cannon. which would be appropriate to emulate if we are going an Eidolon theme for 'Lasers'.

Mesmer skin is a veil of energy emulating the spectral tendrils around some parts of the Eidolon. This however is where the similarities end, EIdolons all have invulnerable shields; not defenses but a shield of pure Eidolon energy that is invulnerable to all attack and the Eidolons can't be statused though this is more a built in feature that DE decided to give them. Mesmer skin, is just a buff that makes it so you can be ignore some forms of damage - not all - and doesn't protect at all against status while its main use is shooting a quick stun attack at enemies that do try to damage you. Eidolons don't have an equivalent ability unless this is a deal about the upcoming Flying Eidolon series with the Unum meat head.

Again this is about staying thematic with the nature of what it is emulating. In this case, an Eidolon. If one wants to go Vampire to capture the promise of the Vlad name, that is cool by me as Fonk did. But if we are going Eidolon - something that is sorta outside what we are presented is normal for the lore - it might be good to pull from the three examples we currently have with ample attacks and defenses to make player versions of.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

8 minutes ago, Urlan said:

It may be only vaguely similar to the Gantulyst yes, due to the Gantulyst's skyfall starting a laser spinning around a central point floating high in the sky above the Eidolon. No other Eidolon has such an attack or whips lasers around spinning for that matter, even the Gantulyst. They do however, all have a big Laser Cannon. which would be appropriate to emulate if we are going an Eidolon theme for 'Lasers'.

Mesmer skin is a veil of energy emulating the spectral tendrils around some parts of the Eidolon. This however is where the similarities end, EIdolons all have invulnerable shields; not defenses but a shield of pure Eidolon energy that is invulnerable to all attack and the Eidolons can't be statused though this is more a built in feature that DE decided to give them. Mesmer skin, is just a buff that makes it so you can be ignore some forms of damage - not all - and doesn't protect at all against status while its main use is shooting a quick stun attack at enemies that do try to damage you. Eidolons don't have an equivalent ability unless this is a deal about the upcoming Flying Eidolon series with the Unum meat head.

Again this is about staying thematic with the nature of what it is emulating. In this case, an Eidolon. If one wants to go Vampire to capture the promise of the Vlad name, that is cool by me as Fonk did. But if we are going Eidolon - something that is sorta outside what we are presented is normal for the lore - it might be good to pull from the three examples we currently have with ample attacks and defenses to make player versions of.

again you are missing the entire point and taking everything way too literally. just because the animation of his 4th ability his different doesn't mean it isn't heavily eidolon like. It wouldn't be too farfetched for a warframe to execute a gantulyst laser attack differently. 

Guess what the eidolons invulnerable shield is a form of defense/protection that you have to through. Mesmer skin is a defense/protection you have to go through. If something that prevents or lowers damage isn't a form of defense/protection then tell me what qualifies as defense/protection?

Vlad was a codedame during his development yes. But they changed that and went the more eidolon like direction making his official name Revenant. 

[Urlan]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

again you are missing the entire point and taking everything way too literally. just because the animation of his 4th ability his different doesn't mean it isn't heavily eidolon like. It wouldn't be too farfetched for a warframe to execute a gantulyst laser attack differently. 

Guess what the eidolons invulnerable shield is a form of defense/protection that you have to through. Mesmer skin is a defense/protection you have to go through. If something that prevents or lowers damage isn't a form of defense/protection then tell me what qualifies as defense/protection?

Vlad was a codedame during his development yes. But they changed that and went the more eidolon like direction making his official name Revenant. 

Yes, they did so making it more in tune with actual Eidolons might be more appropriate than talking down to folk for saying they would like a theme more in tune with the vampire start instead of a half-half mess at points of doing abilities that almost get the idea but miss the actual theme they are trying to represent - an Eidolon and its abilities. An Eidolon shield is a modification of its shield a better comparison would be making their shield then immune ot damage for a time unless hit by a single damage type. Having a passive that gives complete immunity to all status would also be quite in theme, given how existing Eidolons are.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

15 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Yes, they did so making it more in tune with actual Eidolons might be more appropriate than talking down to folk for saying they would like a theme more in tune with the vampire start instead of a half-half mess at points of doing abilities that almost get the idea but miss the actual theme they are trying to represent - an Eidolon and its abilities. An Eidolon shield is a modification of its shield a better comparison would be making their shield then immune ot damage for a time unless hit by a single damage type. Having a passive that gives complete immunity to all status would also be quite in theme, given how existing Eidolons are.

 

On ‎2018‎-‎09‎-‎20 at 3:04 PM, Urlan said:

Sounds neat for a mindslaving vampire theme, but aside from trying to work the Eidolon Skyfall attack, it doesn't take much from Eidolons. Very interesting idea though! Eidolons don't have any controlling aspects to their powers as far as we or the people of Cetus have observed, and even the original Sentient they are fragments of couldn't dominate organics. I have sorta felt that is part of the pull between what might be a tanky beam and tracking dps warframe (eidolon) and the fragile mind controlling vampire idea theme based of the fact that Eidolons are considered Undead Sentient.

Yeah I don't see how saying 

19 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

I would save that for a different frame.

is talking down.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

 

Yeah I don't see how saying 

is talking down.

Your wanting to remember the "Your forgetting his 4 is very Eidolon themed". Fonk is not forgetting anything, as we just had a discussion about just what his abilities represent and how the lasers are an attempt at this, but ultimately fall short as they are not in fact representative of any existing Eidolon. It might have worked better saying, 'I think of the lasers as representing the Eidolons personally' then giving an example that each Eidolon has that the Laser dance evokes.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

2 minutes ago, Urlan said:

but ultimately fall short as they are not in fact representative of any existing Eidolon. It might have worked better saying, 'I think of the lasers as representing the Eidolons personally' then giving an example that each Eidolon has that the Laser dance evokes.

Gantulyst fires a bunch of lasers and so does revenant with his 4th. How is that not anything like the eidolons besides a different animation?!

[NEUDRIVER101]

*Bug*

Learned today Raptors rapid fire lasers go through Mesmer skin. Not cool dudes. Not cool.

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, NEUDRIVER101 said:

*Bug*

Learned today Raptors rapid fire lasers go through Mesmer skin. Not cool dudes. Not cool.

There’s so many enemies that can go through Mesmer Skin, i’m not Surprised that this happened.

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

Gantulyst fires a bunch of lasers and so does revenant with his 4th. How is that not anything like the eidolons besides a different animation?!

Gantulyst doesn't fire lasers, outside his Laser Cannon which mind, all Eidolons do. Instead, Gantulyst fires a round from his Laser Cannon to start his version of Skyfall, which does a laser disco ball in the sky. The pillars that Thralls become when killed is intended to be likened to his Flame Pillars from the Ground that come when he stomps. All Eidolons have a Laser Gannon attack but none have a Laser Dance like Revenant.

 

15 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

There’s so many enemies that can go through Mesmer Skin, i’m not Surprised that this happened.

Yeah, I am sure it will become a more useful defense skill in time, but right now its very hit or miss.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

16 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Gantulyst doesn't fire lasers,

 

16 minutes ago, Urlan said:

outside his Laser Cannon

 

16 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Gantulyst fires a round from his Laser Cannon to start his version of Skyfall, which does a laser disco ball in the sky

You lost me when you said he doesn't have lasers and then proceed to tell me his laser attacks. Your only reason for saying it isn't an eidolon themed ability is the fact that revenant uses a ifferent animation to execute his laser attack...

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by (XB1)ultamite hero

[Urlan]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

 

 

You lost me when you said he doesn't have lasers and then proceed to tell me his laser attacks.

Yes, I get the feeling that is a theme here. I think we can end it at we do not see eye to eye on the subject of Eidolons and Eidolon warframes.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

36 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

There’s so many enemies that can go through Mesmer Skin, i’m not Surprised that this happened.

yeah its got some bugs that need to be fixed.

 

[ThatRoomba]

6 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

again you are missing the entire point and taking everything way too literally. just because the animation of his 4th ability his different doesn't mean it isn't heavily eidolon like. It wouldn't be too farfetched for a warframe to execute a gantulyst laser attack differently. 

Guess what the eidolons invulnerable shield is a form of defense/protection that you have to through. Mesmer skin is a defense/protection you have to go through. If something that prevents or lowers damage isn't a form of defense/protection then tell me what qualifies as defense/protection?

Vlad was a codedame during his development yes. But they changed that and went the more eidolon like direction making his official name Revenant. 

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. You accuse us of being too literal. I think you're connecting A to G without much rationale. Glad it makes sense to you though! I will still want something to more closely resemble to either a 1) vampire or 2) eidolon. I think you're in a minority that sees it. I've even tried squinting! I've done more than a few tridolons and I still don't see where the DM comes from??

If lasers is the only qualification, should Mirage explore its long lost heritage? Heck, the clones could be considered minion-esque right???

Edited September 22, 2018 by Fonk

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

56 minutes ago, Fonk said:

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. You accuse us of being too literal. I think you're connecting A to G without much rationale. Glad it makes sense to you though! I will still want something to more closely resemble to either a 1) vampire or 2) eidolon. I think you're in a minority that sees it. I've even tried squinting! I've done more than a few tridolons and I still don't see where the DM comes from??

If lasers is the only qualification, should Mirage explore its long lost heritage? Heck, the clones could be considered minion-esque right???

I'm looking at it from a logical standpoint in looking at revenants 4th ability. It doesn't take much to figure out that its based off of the gantulyst lasers that beam down from the sky but with a twist. Plus the devs intentions of giving revenants 4th lasers was in fact to make him more eidolonn like.

[EinheriarJudith]

i see people still do not understand that EIDOLON is not a faction. it is a type of Sentient. Sentient is a faction it consists of: Oculyst, Battalyst, Conculyst, Mimic, Vomvalyst, Teralyst, Gantulyst, and Hydrolyst.

both Reave and Danse Macabre are vomvalyst and Battalyst skills which are Sentient faction abilities. Enthrall and Mesmer Skin are the vampire skills. the skills fit the theme.

Mesmer skin needs to be able to block more kinds of damage it lets too many random kinds of damage through still to a point where id rather them remove the charges and just make it damage reduction. enthrall for the love of god needs ally damage immunity (dont know why DE is dancing around this). all his skills need animation speed up except DM.

[ThatRoomba]

4 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

I'm looking at it from a logical standpoint in looking at revenants 4th ability. It doesn't take much to figure out that its based off of the gantulyst lasers that beam down from the sky but with a twist. Plus the devs intentions of giving revenants 4th lasers was in fact to make him more eidolonn like.

Again, we agree to disagree. Just because someone keeps saying something is logical, doesn't make it so. Most warframes with a theme follow a certain logic, but there's a reason this one is so hotly debated and those ones are not.

Could we agree that there may have been avenues more closely resembling Eidolon attacks/behaviors other than sparkly twurlz?

Edited September 22, 2018 by Fonk

[Xyhon]

Soo, DE, You gave up on this frame already? Because, no changes with this massive feedback that ppl are giving?

[Madway7]

So I have decided to give feedback despite what happened with the last batch, what I said and the possibility that Revenant might not receive anymore "major" changes. I honestly still feel mixed about him, like the concept, but not the execution. 

 

 

Passive

-change his passive to damage reduction to shields. (30, 40 or 50%, unmoddable)

 

Enthrall

Increase cap to 8 or 10, Thralls serve a different purpose than Nekros' shadows, they function in another way and should not be likened to them.

maybe instead of the seeking projectiles with the pillars consider changing it to the pillars attracting enemies towards them (like Mags 2). the projectiles are okay cc, but they kind of work against the pillars by keeping them away from them rather than attracting enemies towards them.

allow pillars to enthrall enemies?

change pillars to the damage adaptation of Dance Macabre (with a status chance).

 

Note: as stated before, I dont like Enthrall. Which is why I'm not suggesting they get reduced damage to allies as others have, I'm not sure if that would be better or worse, it might be problematic, it might help Revenant be more team friendly, I'm not sure.

 

Mesmer Skin

-change Mesmer Skin to only apply to health damage. This is to make the passive useful. (Even if it stays the same as it currently is)

Note: This is to mimic how eidolon health system works where players have to work through their shields in order to get to their weak points and then their health

.

-possibly remove ability to recast?

-possibly allow the stun to be an aoe rather than a single enemy stun?

 

And please fix it

Nullifiers and Ballistas can 1 shot Revenant through Mesmer Skin

Nullifier attacks do not consume Mesmer Skin charges

 

Note: I have found out that the 1 shot issue only applies if you are alone in the mission.

 

 

Reave

-buff lifesteal and shield steal to to 20% vs non thralled targets (instead of leaving it at 40% in the UI just list it at 20% and say its double for thralls)

-allow it to give shields and overshields from non shielded units. 

-allow Reave to restore Mesmer Skin charges from hitting ANY enemy, not only thralled ones.

-allow multi directional movement. I think this was made possible in 1 hotfix, but it was removed the next. 

-cut the cast time in half

 

 

Dance Macabre

 

-add new mechanic where aiming allows you to focus the beams

-remove overshield mechanic, just leave shield/overshield regen to Reave.

-remove the pillar detonation

-change adaptive damage to infested flesh to do viral damage instead of gas (some infested enemies can negate the effects of toxin damage)

 

please leave this ability in a state where it will not get nerfed in the future.

[Drasiel]

Finally got my revenant built and I've been leveling him up but I'm finding playing him is exhausting, not because his kit is bad or his visuals (although other spinning ult revs give me a headache) it's managing his powers. 

Revs power tracking HUD items are on both the top and bottom of the screen, you constantly have to flick your eyes up and Down to manage thrall count and mesmer skin. I'm using a 26 inch monitor and after 20 mins with him my eyes are tired and I don't want to play anymore. 

Could his power HUD items please be better consolidated into one area? 

[--RV--Dopekoke]

In options, there is a way to make the HUD itself smaller meaning, closer to the center but it would be nice if, just like with Nekros' shadows, the number of thralls can be on the ability itself just like mesmer skin is.