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Chroma needs a rework


Aleksi134
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6 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

Well peer pressure/backlash tends to be an effective tactic in some cases of getting stuff fixed. The oberon rework that everybody went crazy about do to how bad it was influenced DE to actually fix their mistakes with the oberon rework.

Yeah, except Oberon was literally on the table for fixing up, the backlash and fixes all happened within the four weeks after his initial rework. You know, the time period that all frames have after changes are released to get feedback?

Chroma isn't on the table. In the same way that Zephyr wasn't on the table for four years running, and DEScott only started sending his minions through the forums when it was officially announced so the 600+ threads in the year running up to it meant diddly and the resulting rework was a list of the shoutiest and most badly put-together thread starters across all feedback platforms.

Chroma is scheduled. Just not yet. When you hear the words 'we're going to be looking at Chroma' on the DevStream, go nuts, scream and shout. But they aren't actually paying attention to us yet.

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22 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Chroma is scheduled. Just not yet. When you hear the words 'we're going to be looking at Chroma' on the DevStream, go nuts, scream and shout. But they aren't actually paying attention to us yet.

Chroma wasn't even on the list of reworks... I wouldn't be surprised if chroma is going to stay in this horrible state for 5 more years.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

Chroma wasn't even on the list of reworks... I wouldn't be surprised if chroma is going to stay in this horrible state for 5 more years.

They literally put out a tweet Facebook post about it saying that they know we all want a rework on him, it's not happening yet, but it's on the list.

Edited by Thaylien
Facebook, not twitter
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17 hours ago, (PS4)Gorrilian said:

Am I supposed to read this as snark? Let me try to consolidate this.

You made your point of Chroma taking cues from Sigurn and elemental coloration of DnD dragons,

You think my entire reason to find similarities between Daedric armor and Chroma is the number of horns, specifically four. Then you point out lots of dragons have four horns and Daedric helmets don't have that very specific four horns I never even mentioned, as if this is a testament to my ignorance. 

Per your inappropriately sarcastic pleading, the lore I rely upon is a paraphrase of that Wikipedia page you linked to about Sigurn. It mentioned Sigurn bathed in the blood of a dragon to become invulnerable. Half of Chroma's armor is in his Effigy pelt, which makes me think of how Heracles is often depicted wearing the hide of the Nemean Lion, a creature that was invulnerable to physical attack, but not asphyxiation (I think that was how he died). Maybe I made a few mistaken assumptions. I'm guessing. Why do I deserve this attitude?

And the prep time I meant was the number of energy resources needed when playing solo on higher levels, for each mission. Robust energy economy just is not part of his kit. Also, yes I have been sucked into a mission before I could change the energy color. Yes, I found it annoying. I hadn't thought of that, but that adds to my ire (or whatever the mood is of peeved typing).

Besides the rework ideas I posted, the point I was making was that DE seems to be stubborn about the changing Chroma and I'm speculating in a less-than-serious manner to try to rationalize why we have David without his sling when they keep describing Chroma as someone/thing that sounds an awful lot like Goliath with a helmet.

 

 

oh i don't know maybe it is this

On 2018-10-01 at 7:30 AM, (PS4)Gorrilian said:

We joke about him wearing Daedric Armor, the helmet of which already resembles the skulls of the dragons from Skyrim, but I am starting to think he is actually a genuine tribute to the Dragonborn and Digital Extremes just cannot legally admit such.

 

where you worded that phrase like DE took something illegally from Bethesda studios skyrim. and then i pointed out the actually inspiration. whether i intended or not to be snarky is not the case. DE took nothing from Bethesda whether it was for tribute or not.

ps. we all know about chroma's unreasonable amount of need for energy. so thats understandable.

Edited by maddragonmaster
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I think Chroma's abilities just need to be replaced all together

1 should be a blast (some damage), and leaves a small DOT on the ground (for about 3 sec)

2 a buff that only benefits Chroma

3 an armor skill similar to Rhino's Iron Skin

4 a flight skill similar to Titania 4th

and his passive could use the current 4th animation just no longer attacking and instead give the inner armor to the operator as an armor bonus.

His health and shields need to be raised as well. There is no way he will survive end game at this rate.

 

I love the way Chroma Prime looks, but the way he works makes it hard to justify  using a frame this bad, and considering the $80 price tag

I payed just for the frame and weapons definitely stings a bit that he didn't get a rework. Making it a waste of $80. Please fix him

Edited by Orphen_Orson
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20 hours ago, Sajochi said:

 You poor naive tenno. Fortuna is love, it is life itself. Chroma has no use there, only for hunting big bois. We all know he'll get a rework in 80 years. 

I'm definitely not naive lol. I dont know if you've been on the forums lately but nearly every post under "warframe" is about chroma. So, I doubt we will have to wait "80 years" for a rework, more like a month or 2 more the way the community keeps pushing. Also, assuming the giant spiders present loot the same way if not more so than the Eidolons, then they will be a big part of grinding in fortuna, and Chroma is most certainly relevant when it comes to dishing out a ton of damage without taking any. So sorry bud but Chroma isn't going to fade away like you seem to think.

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In the current state of chroma, he seems rather not fun to play, and his 1 and 4 don't seem to fit in well in the whole grand scheme of things. I'm here to try and discuss my solution to the issue, and I implore that you guys as a community further discuss this topic and come to a definite conclusion. (Also don't forget to read the full post so you do not miss any information).

To start things off, let's start with the 1 ability, Spectral Scream.
I would suggest that this ability leaves an elemental hazard zone much like nezha's fire walker, along with a synergy with his 4 that I will discuss further into the post.

His 2 (Elemental Ward) and 3 (Vex Armor) seem rather redundant, and I would like to have these 2 abilities merged into one for simplicity's sake, and as an option to add another much needed ability. this of course will remain re-castable like Vex Armor, along with a tweak to ensure that Fire chroma can still use the healing effect without making the duty of maintaining vex armor a job (as a result of duration cuts). If this ability seems overpowered in the current state, the energy to re-cast could scale with the intensity of the vex armor boost (wouldn't be the first time a castable energy ability has different cost based on conditions, such as zephyr's airburst).

To carry on with out discussion, Let us talk about changes to chroma's 4 (Effigy). As mentioned earlier with chroma's one, there should be a synergy. While chroma's 4 is active, activating 4 will cause the Effigy to launch a volley of element-based projectiles which will explode in an aoe (similar to hydroid). These elemental explosions will leave elemental hazard zones which can afflict status procs of any enemy enemy that walks upon them, based on chroma's element during the cast. There could also be a damage scalar to these energy projectiles, and the zones left by them if further damage is needed.

Now before you go down into the comments or leave your votes, remember that we have one empty ability slot due to the combination of the 2 and 3 abilities. This is where we can get a bit more creative.

We could put a simple ability such as an elemental change ability, which would function like equinox's metamorphosis, which can allow chroma to adapt to the situation he is, weather it be to switch to electricity to cc enemies or amp up shields, fire chroma for cc and to heal up, ice chroma for cc and reduce incoming damage, or to maintain weapon up time with toxic chroma (with the aid of the other abilities in conjunction of course).

Now, feel free to discuss in the comments below.

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Hi all, i wanted to post together a bunch of ideas i have for Chroma since it's been a while since its latest changes and discussions have been going on back and forth for quite some time. 

It's something very conservative that tries to keep the kit as intact as possible while giving some measure of sinergy to his kit. 

Let's get this on. 

Passive - the one thing that has, imo, to be rebuilt. Changing the energy colour to make his skills do something different shluld be a mechanic, not a passive. What i had in mind was something that reminesces of the primordial fear dragons instill in most mithologies, thus my idea would be to give an accuracy penalty to all enemies within a small radius of Chroma that gets worse the closer they are, or a moderate slow with the same tyoe of scaling. 

1 - Spectral Scream - as we've seen with Atlas, channeled skills that lock you out of aying are not very good. Following the same rationale, i would make this an instant cast cone AoE that deals moderate damage with good status chance (think about 30% before mods). The other change i would propose would be to make the damage of Spectral Scream affected by the Fury buff, maybe at a reduced rate.

2 - Elemental Ward - there might be some number tweaking here and there for the buffs (like toxin needs a higher baseline imo) but mostly the one thing I'd say would make this interesting would be a simple change in two parts. The first would be that every enemy that hits Chroma has a set chance of being proced with the element he's using (ot would obviously override Ice Ward's effect so that should get a bit more buff going maybe), maybe 20% before mods, and that Chroma gets a very low lifesteal % on enemies affected by that proc, think 1% or less. The rationale here is to hinge a bit of sinergy on his elemental alignment while also giving him a sustain mechanic to go along with his revised, more bruiser style kit. Also, bring the base aura range to Vex Armour levels (18m before mods). 

3 - Vex Armour - mostly unchanged save for the fact that imo the recast mechanic made the frame much more boring and it should go. With the chabges to the rest of his kit having to manage the uptime would be a nice way to pace your combat. 

4 - Effigy - here i would do something similar to Spectral Scream. The ability baseline is alright, i would tho bump up the status chance and make it moddable, and have Fury affect the damage, with a balance pass to make it not completely ludicrous. The one thing that should really be added would instead be that Effigy acts as a stationary Chroma for the purpose of determining whether allies get the bonuses from Elemental Ward and from Vex Armour. Basically, if you stand within 18m of Effigy and the Chroma has Vex Armour and/or Elemental Ward active, you get the buffs. It would be a cool way of making Chroma's and his team's life easier. 

What this tries to achieve is giving Chroma back his bruiser identity and also giving his kit some cohesion through the use of elemental procs and effigy as a buff post. 

It also tries as much as possible to keep the idea behind the frame consistent. I'm not a fan of switching elements on the go because Chroma is heavily inspired from Chromatic Dragons and they aren't really about doing different elemental stuff but about being really focused on one thing. 

I also tried to avoid overbuffing him in any way because that could backfire very very quickly to be honest. 

Let me know what you think. 

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Chroma is a frame that I personally love and enjoy HOWEVER I do this that as fun as effigy can be on defence and over game modes like it we have potential being wasted.  

Here are some of my ideas:

Passive

Change his passive so that you can switch his element mannally with a new selector and get rid of the energy color idea. (Sounds great on paper can make fashion frames and certain abilities look off). Making it read like so.

Idea 1: Increase status chance of Chromas element by all sources (Weapons, abilities etc. Only from the player that is chroma) by a certain %.

Idea 2: Increase stats efficiency/duration/power by a certain % if it matches Chromas element.

Idea 3: Chromas element is added onto all used weapons as a certain amount. (20?, 50?, 70?)

ALL HIS WARD AND VEX ARMOR IMO ARE FINE

Ultimate: Forget the turret effigy and instead have chroma himself sprout his wings and take flight draining energy overtime. Changing his other abilities.

1 Spectral scream: Increased damage and range in a cone from chromas mouth to aim however doesn't drain energy instead only lasts a short duration leaving a path of elemental damage where it touched the ground.

2 Elemental ward: Create a Shockwave of elemental damage from Chromas position on the ground damaging enemies and applying buff to chroma and allies hit for a duration.

3 VEX Armor: (This was the toughie) Chroma gets his normal ability however it also creates an small (Armor? Sheild? Energy? Health? Or a portion of his armor?) buff on the ground for allies.

4 Dragon ascent/ Dragons Domain: (Recast) Chroma will dive down to aim withing certain range creating a shockwave and leaving effigy there for a short time if cast during flight mode. If chroma has an effigy out from landing  and Chroma recasts he will return the effigy. While in flight ability costs are reduced slightly.

Reason and mechanics:

This will give Chroma a more prominent Tank, Dps, support role than he already had. And allows him to stand out. The mechanics for his flight mode are NOT like an arching it more like Zephrs hover but moving at a slowish rate. This would make chroma more than a just 2+3 or just 4 frame and more an all around frame where all his abilities matter! Giving multiple playstyles!

Do you play normal chroma and take flight for hairy situatons?

OR

Do you play land chroma only taking flight to place your effigies?

Or

Do you like to be airborne as much as possible?

 

While all these are ways you could play him, The idea is to still maintain his 2×3 through the flight and land play while enjoying using flight for more offensive play! His breath can lock off areas and damage groups! His shockwave can provide support and damage! He can help the weakest members of a team with portioned armor! And still lock down chokes and points with effigies!

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Finally someone who gets it. EW tweak seems simple and effective. You smack me, I make you hurt with fire/ice/thunda/poison. I still want electric and toxin reevaluated so they can be a comparable choice to Heat and cold but one step at a time. 

Love the spectral scream idea the most. Should be fire and forget projectile over the current vomit simulator. I made a suggestion in the past to have it work almost like the plasmor. One fat projectile hitting multiple enemies and procing multiple times. 

Effigy acting as a stationary chroma with additional modding. I could kiss you right now, but only if you want. That would be amazing to have and I didn't know how badly I needed that for Chroma. DE, give this tenno a cookie. They deserve it. 

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As a veteran who've played the game for over 3000 hours, I feel bad for Chroma in its current state : A poor dragon that lives in the shadow of our stronk Rhino.

First, according to DE's warframe usage data, Rhino is very popular among both low MR and high MR players, while Chroma is just trashed by most players (Average usage : Rhino + Rhino Prime = 10.47%, Chroma = 0.86%, Chroma Prime aint a thing when this date was released)

Ppl may say it's because Rhino is much easier to build but still, if Chroma is good enough then we shall see many players using Chroma out there right (rather than just test his "max endgame build" in Simulacrum and say "Chroma's good" and never use him again in a real fight)  

When Eidolon hunt first came out, Chroma got a bit more attention because ppl need his damage buff from Vex Armor (which was a lot stronger than Rhino's Roar) then DE nerf his Vex Armor, and now you can see, very few players choose to bring Chroma in Eidolon hunt these days because Rhino is just much better : his Iron Skin provides 100% damage reduction and protects players from knockdown and magnetic procs, while his Roar is an easy-to-use team damage buff that doesn't require players to get damaged first (when Chroma gets a Harrow teammate in public squads, tragedy happens lol)

Now ppl may ask why am I keep comparing Chroma with Rhino, well lemme tell ya babes, in the current build of Warframe, any mission u wanna use Chroma? Rhino is your better choice !

Let the analysis begin !

Chroma

Spectral Scream : Chroma players only use this shiity ability for fun sometimes, because it's practically useless.

Elemental Ward : Chroma's icon, ability changes according to your chosen energy colour which is cool and fun, though we all know Cold is the best for endgame while Toxin is basically the worst. Fire Chroma's heal aura can't even heal your own companion, seriously ? 

Vex Armor : Must be FUN to keep watching your ability duration countdown and prepare to press 3 again before it expires, ortherwise you're gonna lose all your precious damage & armor buff ! Damage buff only applies to weapons, while Rhino Roar buffs both ability and weapon damage !!

Effigy : Cool kids ability providing some sort of limited Crowd Control and AOE damage. Needless to say, Rhino Stomp is the best CC ultimate which can also nuke low-level mobs.

TL;DR : YOU WANT TANK+TEAM DAMAGE BUFF+ AOE+CC ? PICK RHINO AND SCR3W CHROMA !

(:3 s Thanks for reading, my dear hamster fellows !

Edited by Doomsknight
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13 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

3 reasons:

1) They have Melee 3.0 and Fortuna to finish first

2) They dont care about certant warframes anymore(Valkyr)

3)....Chroma is not Ember. She is on complete trash

Danm I miss my 35m-radius Firequake CC build Ember, which no longer exists since DE murdered her :facepalm:

Would love to see some Valkyr rework, too, can hardly see a Valkyr these days

Can't blame DE for focusing on Melee3.0 and Fortuna, but usually DE will rework a frame when its Prime comes out yet they did nothing for Chroma Prime this time, which makes me feel bad for our poor dragon :/

Edited by Doomsknight
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My take on chroma is that he's actually 'expensive' to build as for full utilization of his armor/ward. You need rivened weapons(namely range melee riven), full 6-7 forma kavat and a good amount of arcanes - things that for most players is 'just not worth it'.

 

Also, If there is a rework comming, Chroma is far down he list of ones that need it.

-Trinity is in so bloody bad situation that if Oberon was more popular than her in Eidolon hunts, she would be completely useless.

-Titania is in dire need of rework, her kit just doesnt work. Even her famed 'Plague star' build being 'best for it', is just not.

-Valkyr... not sure where to even start. Wukong can do the same things as her, just better.

- Speaking of Wukong, he has only 1 useful skill out of 4.

- Nyx - the next rework we know of, so DE admit that she needs rework.

- Vauban - when was the last time you've seen one of those?

 

 

Edited by scourge213
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NOTE: If Chroma is complete and utter trash, worse than Oberon and/or the Operator with no mods/focus powers, then please ignore my thoughts.

Skimming through your post, as someone who uses Rhino but not Chroma, I have to say this: Chroma  is not just more difficult to build, he's freakin' difficult to use. I look at these people online who use Chroma to get ridiculous amounts of damage, and frankly, my Rhino can't do that, and I'm in awe. But I'm too stupid to use Chroma like them, which is why I stick to Rhino.

It's kind of like when I hear people say Octavia is better than Loki for invisibility, and my first thought is, yeah, but Loki only requires one button press to be invisible, Octavia has more advanced stuff to do for that, which I'm to stupid for.

Simplicity will draw people to frames, doesn't mean the "ignored" frames are not better. I can't comment on how good Chroma is when compared to Rhino, but if the videos online are anything to go by, he's better. He's just not simple enough for idiots like me. Takes investment. Does that mean he should be reworked? I dunno, does DE want Chroma to be used more? I feel like Chroma is better than Rhino to offset this low level of usage he gets. If he were easier to use, he would either be on par with Rhino (which would lead to "Chroma got nerfed" threads) or would just make Rhino terrible by comparison, and then people will want a Rhino rework, so this circle will never end.

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19 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:
Spoiler

 

NOTE: If Chroma is complete and utter trash, worse than Oberon and/or the Operator with no mods/focus powers, then please ignore my thoughts.

Skimming through your post, as someone who uses Rhino but not Chroma, I have to say this: Chroma  is not just more difficult to build, he's freakin' difficult to use. I look at these people online who use Chroma to get ridiculous amounts of damage, and frankly, my Rhino can't do that, and I'm in awe. But I'm too stupid to use Chroma like them, which is why I stick to Rhino.

It's kind of like when I hear people say Octavia is better than Loki for invisibility, and my first thought is, yeah, but Loki only requires one button press to be invisible, Octavia has more advanced stuff to do for that, which I'm to stupid for.

Simplicity will draw people to frames, doesn't mean the "ignored" frames are not better. I can't comment on how good Chroma is when compared to Rhino, but if the videos online are anything to go by, he's better. He's just not simple enough for idiots like me. Takes investment. Does that mean he should be reworked? I dunno, does DE want Chroma to be used more? I feel like Chroma is better than Rhino to offset this low level of usage he gets. If he were easier to use, he would either be on par with Rhino (which would lead to "Chroma got nerfed" threads) or would just make Rhino terrible by comparison, and then people will want a Rhino rework, so this circle will never end.

 

 

i agree,this is why i always went for Mirage with Pure Str Built if i want a damage buffer. 
which i always use to lvl up weapon at hydron.
Chroma is very unreliable because you need to damage yourself to get the buff.
Thus,forcing you to bring an additional explosive weapon if you want to use him at full potential.
 

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31 minutes ago, Doomsknight said:

Danm I miss my 35m-radius Firequake CC build Ember, which no longer exists since DE murdered her :facepalm:

I miss that build option too ☹️ I just wish DE didn't just drop reworks when they've actually left them unfinished or in a worse place than what they were when they started. Ember and banshee reworks didn't fix the underlying issues they were supposed to fix, Pablo seems to be able to do better reworks but even his aren't exactly perfect.

 

But I digress from Chroma....Having been levelling chroma prime, for what seems like forever (it's just slow going compared with other frames) it's pretty clear he needs a rework:

his 1 is completely useless, it does next to no damage even on low levels.  I'd happily sacrifice this for the ability to change colours/elements...

his 2 and 3 need merging, plus imo a slight increase to base duration and/or a mechanic similar to nezha halo for duration plus maybe a slight buff to make it worth using over rhino roar which is far easier to get access to. 

his 4 simply needs an aura instead of a scream plus a pure damage buff, maybe even incorporating some of revenants dance macabre's absorbing damage increases output or something. 

 

Mind you he's not the only one that needs rework so where do they start and how do they fix something that some people may feel is fine.... I don't see any real reason to change valkyr too much for example, admittedly I don't use her much so maybe that warrants a rework. 

I actually like titania as a frame, she's really good on PoE (although she seems to cause lag imo) due to it being 'open', the real issue with her abilities is the need to use an augment to fix 'fundamental' issues and the 'floaty nature' of some of her abilities which if they were just tethered to the ground instead they'd basically be fine. 

 

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This may be a bit late, but there's already a megathread for Chroma rework posts and suggestions, to which this thread will no doubt get moved soon. With that said, though, here are my thoughts on the above:

14 hours ago, Dwarf_King said:

To start things off, let's start with the 1 ability, Spectral Scream.
I would suggest that this ability leaves an elemental hazard zone much like nezha's fire walker, along with a synergy with his 4 that I will discuss further into the post.

This could help the ability out, especially since Chroma has some defensive elements in his kit already, though I also don't feel that would resolve the core problem, which is that its damage feels weak, and it otherwise serves little function, not even for applying status. Personally, I think some of the most direct fixes that could help the ability out would be to raise the status chance to 100%, and either increase the base damage, allow it to benefit from Vex Armor's damage increase, or both. Giving the ability life steal would also allow it to be useful to Chroma, who desperately needs sustain, even with weak damage.

14 hours ago, Dwarf_King said:

His 2 (Elemental Ward) and 3 (Vex Armor) seem rather redundant, and I would like to have these 2 abilities merged into one for simplicity's sake, and as an option to add another much needed ability. this of course will remain re-castable like Vex Armor, along with a tweak to ensure that Fire chroma can still use the healing effect without making the duty of maintaining vex armor a job (as a result of duration cuts). If this ability seems overpowered in the current state, the energy to re-cast could scale with the intensity of the vex armor boost (wouldn't be the first time a castable energy ability has different cost based on conditions, such as zephyr's airburst).

I can agree with this. Elemental Ward and Vex Armor are two buttons Chroma presses to gain a bunch of timed stats, and there's already a ton of overlap between the two, so it would make sense to combine them into the same ability.

14 hours ago, Dwarf_King said:

To carry on with out discussion, Let us talk about changes to chroma's 4 (Effigy). As mentioned earlier with chroma's one, there should be a synergy. While chroma's 4 is active, activating 4 will cause the Effigy to launch a volley of element-based projectiles which will explode in an aoe (similar to hydroid). These elemental explosions will leave elemental hazard zones which can afflict status procs of any enemy enemy that walks upon them, based on chroma's element during the cast. There could also be a damage scalar to these energy projectiles, and the zones left by them if further damage is needed.

I very much agree that there should be synergy. I think overall it would benefit Chroma if his damage increase also applied to his own abilities, but on top of that, being able to do more things with the Effigy would make it feel more useful. Personally, I think it would help if using any ability would cause the Effigy to use it instead with a range increase, allowing Chroma to defend an area by proxy while doing his own thing. Because Chroma already sacrifices a ton of durability, I'd say he could lose the movespeed bonus from Effigy, but also the Energy drain completely, since he's already making a significant tradeoff.

14 hours ago, Dwarf_King said:

We could put a simple ability such as an elemental change ability, which would function like equinox's metamorphosis, which can allow chroma to adapt to the situation he is, weather it be to switch to electricity to cc enemies or amp up shields, fire chroma for cc and to heal up, ice chroma for cc and reduce incoming damage, or to maintain weapon up time with toxic chroma (with the aid of the other abilities in conjunction of course).

This I think is a good idea. I think Chroma should be able to actively switch elements, instead of being stuck with just one for a whole mission, and that element of adaptation should allow him total control over all things elemental, namely damage types, status procs, and resistances. 

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