Let's Talk: Content Drought - What DE can learn from this

[birdobash]

10 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

I criticized his use of it because it didn't add to the thread; it just make an already long post even more long-winded. It also made what could have been valid points come off as flippant because they were only supported by hot air and not actual arguments as to what's wrong and why and how it should be changed. The number of times the OP has already replied in the thread speaks to a likely lack of objectivity to begin with. Your spelling and punctuation issues when you're trying to tell others how short sighted their understanding of rhetoric and literary devices is doesn't really come off well, all the more because you're being pretty condescending.

Anyway, I mentioned that the OP had valid points and I see no issue with also pointing out that what could have been a good presentation on the need for change digressed into a mess that many won't read through and many others will not find worth taking seriously because of how it's presented. There's a thread pinned at the top of this section on how to give good feedback that you both could benefit from.

I wasn't pointing fingers at you, I was just saying people in general, im sorry if it came off that way.🤝 handshakes we good?

Edit: ill delete it if you want

Edited October 9, 2018 by birdobash

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

8 hours ago, PR0JAX said:

This is true, but it can still help them plan or get ahead of things.  If the majority want something they can't provide, they can say it's on the way or even look into new hires.  Every poll is flawed by their very nature, but sometimes you can see trends that really help.

I don't mean this to sound mean, so please bear that in mind as text doesn't always carry intended tonality, buuuuut....

...what makes any of us think DE doesn't -already- have data on what we want/don't want?  They have ALL our play data, trends, etc.  They have these forums as one giant "poll" experience.  What more data can we provide?

Also, as one who has previously worked in game development, I have to say that polling the audience only gets response from the audience that is actually paying attention to the forums in the first place, which inherently means it's not truly indicative of the full playerbase's wishes.

Finally, and this is not aimed at you @PR0JAX, but just this thread in general...  Just because someone is deemed as "successful" doesn't mean they have money to blow.  Just because there are several digits in a bank account doesn't mean that company/entity can "afford" anything.   For example, just because I had a big client pay me $1000 for a single show this weekend does NOT mean I can "afford" to go buy a $800 TV this weekend, too.   I still have bills, operating costs, utilities, taxes, etc.  Hell, the last several years Google has taken a HIT in profits!  The trade-off?  They practically own the internet...   That is the COST of doing business.  So, DE may be running a tight ship in ORDER to grow and produce things and profit in the long-game.  Just because they have record numbers of players doesn't mean they're taking lunch breaks swimming in their coin vault.

Running a business is a tad more complex than the whims of a largely prepubescent playerbase.  And to give credit where credit is due, DE has been at this for quite a while now.  Longer than the 5 years they've had Warframe up and running.  It's not like they're novices to game development (unlike many here who want to give them "advice")

Just food for thought.

[Kimimoto]

Jesus, just look at this whole thread. This is why all those videos were made about the community...

DE themselves have agreed with the drought and the points brought up by the sensible part of the community. This thread is 100% proof why people don't even bother coming here, it's a giant echo chamber for bullies and white knights.

[Kimimoto]

We just need longer standing content that rewards good play.

There wouldn't be a content drought if Kuva Survival and ESO had the same reward structure that Arbitrations are coming out with. I haven't touched either since they came out, because it's going to be C rotation and bail. Having no incentive to continue past C rotation really kills all motivation to have fun playing these modes.

inb4 some white knight says "incentive is bad, quit the game you salty vet"

 

[Sean]

We could just have a year of 99% repeated content with a massive lack of transparency in matters that have needed fixing for ages and people would still rush to defend DE across all areas.... oh wait... that sounds familiar actually.

[PR0JAX]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I don't mean this to sound mean, so please bear that in mind as text doesn't always carry intended tonality, buuuuut....

...what makes any of us think DE doesn't -already- have data on what we want/don't want?  They have ALL our play data, trends, etc.  They have these forums as one giant "poll" experience.  What more data can we provide?

Also, as one who has previously worked in game development, I have to say that polling the audience only gets response from the audience that is actually paying attention to the forums in the first place, which inherently means it's not truly indicative of the full playerbase's wishes.

Finally, and this is not aimed at you @PR0JAX, but just this thread in general...  Just because someone is deemed as "successful" doesn't mean they have money to blow.  Just because there are several digits in a bank account doesn't mean that company/entity can "afford" anything.   For example, just because I had a big client pay me $1000 for a single show this weekend does NOT mean I can "afford" to go buy a $800 TV this weekend, too.   I still have bills, operating costs, utilities, taxes, etc.  Hell, the last several years Google has taken a HIT in profits!  The trade-off?  They practically own the internet...   That is the COST of doing business.  So, DE may be running a tight ship in ORDER to grow and produce things and profit in the long-game.  Just because they have record numbers of players doesn't mean they're taking lunch breaks swimming in their coin vault.

Running a business is a tad more complex than the whims of a largely prepubescent playerbase.  And to give credit where credit is due, DE has been at this for quite a while now.  Longer than the 5 years they've had Warframe up and running.  It's not like they're novices to game development (unlike many here who want to give them "advice")

Just food for thought.

I'm not quite sure where you're going with the "successful" thing, but I'll take your word for it.

As someone who has friends who've been laid off in the industry, (community manager and QA), yeah, game dev is hard.  I didn't like criticizing anything for a while in games because I thought of them just trying to do their jobs.  But also as someone who respects the medium, it pains me to see easily avoided missteps still happen, especially to a game with potential like Warframe.  I believe the developers at least deserve good feedback.  Feedback that I'm not sure they're getting with the forums alone.

As for the kind of data points you reference, those are typically playercounts.  That alone can say a lot (for instance when they plateau or spike) but it doesn't always translate well to some design changes or other finer details, even if you assume that DE knows all of the average time spent in every corner of their game.  They have other variables to look at too, sure, but they don't always know for certain whether people who have stopped playing in one area have stopped due to their own design or external factors.

Forums help get some of that missing nuance, but it seems we have a gazillion opinions going every which way here, and some tangents that baffle me.  Even the forums themselves don't represent 100% of the community, so I'm not sure exactly what would satisfy you.

I don't expect polls to replace forums, or even be that good.  However, they would allow DE to set the tone of the debate, and remove some of the extraneous stuff.  People are constantly saying "you don't understand the way it's done".  Well, why not have the very people that are doing the work ask the questions?  They have a creative vision and maybe they want to see if everyone else is on board.  Are you going to say that they're wrong too?

Also, this wouldn't be the first time they've had one.  I'm fairly sure that PoE had one shortly after release.  If they already have ALL the data, why the need for that survey?  What's so wrong with another?

But whatever, I've already gone on too long.  Just look at this wall of text.

I think I've had my fill of the forums for a few years now.  I'll at least have something to tell posterity.  Wake me up when they've finished Fortuna.  😴

 

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 5 heures, Nitro747 a dit :

still looking for your "constructive" comments other than "you are just a bored player" or "you don't understand statistics".

Because, while some points makes sense, your posts basically says "i devaluate or forget everything DE released this year". 

This game has a lot of problems but definitely not what you posted. 

Also, you do not understand statistics. The game has been on constant growth since the start. The one mild dip is in the last 30 days, which is curiously the biggest Destiny content drop this year, and we're already climbing back up. 

So if you want to bring up concurrent players, please inform yourself first.

 

Other than that i assume the problem is that being an internet forum this is very prone to camps being formed. Currently there is no actual discussion on the topic of what happened and is happening with the game, it's either "thank you DE you the best XOXO" or "this game is S#&$ and does nothing right". 

As always, truth stands in the middle. 

On top of that, most of these topics, both positive and negative, never really define what "content" is. And that, imo, undermines both the positive and negative feedback. 

I ask you, what exactly is content for warframe to you? Cause from your post i think we might have very different ideas on that. 

 

Also, forgive the snarky beginning but I'm really trying to discuss this in a civil manner this time. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)ImTheOx]

18 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

 

this content drought topics are getting so anoying.. 

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)ImTheOx said:

this content drought topics are getting so anoying.. 

IKR, the irony of a flood of drought topics.

[000l000]

I'm always skeptical about this kind of thread's objectivity cause no one forces you to play the game for years either. This has been the same song over and over in almost every online game for decades now. Sometimes you'd better play other games or do more interesting things than grinding and perhaps go back to the game later than complaining about lack of everything.

Things are going slow in such games and tbh i don't even think they're meant to be played that much in the first place. Burnout seems to exist also in videogames as weird as it seems.

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

Hi OP,

Want to start by saying, this is a well thought out post and you have some great constructive feedback. That said I respectfully, overall disagree with the tone and majority of your issues.(if that makes sense?).

I really like the gameplay as is, and could grind on the way way it is for a long time - but that can just be a preference thing between me and you. I also think that DE aren't lazy and I love how well they engage with us (including the weekly streams)

But about the tile set...is that true? If so I do agree. I really like the corpus gas city one! I was just doing a jupiter defense yesterday (oxium farm) and was just thinking to myself how this is probably my fave tile set! As you said, there are a couple of tile sets for planets which are really boring but Jupiter is actually one of the better ones with more character.

Thanks for the post 

 

[Falconer777]

4 часа назад, moostar95 сказал:

Because people pour so much time and money into a game and don't want to have a feeling of being  foolish with those things. 

Sure. And sometimes these "white knights" demonstrate the behavior peculiar to members of cults or sects (and in many ways for the same reasons).

On the topic of the OP - I agree with his point of view. In my opinion, DE is a very talented team, but they lack a bit of a good, hardy and purposeful manager.
Who knows how to bring the begun to the end, and not to throw half-way.

[Fallen_Echo]

6 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

To you, everything is "just" something else.  What possible "content" could they provide that couldn't or wouldn't be met with "Well, it's just XYZ except ABC"?  Every gun that shoots bullets is just Braton with different numbers.  Almost every ability is just deal damage or debuff enemies, or heal or buff ourselves.  Fortuna is just Plains but cold, Eris is just Pluto but dark, Sedna is just Saturn with higher numbers.  Those statements are just downright silly, so why would something like "Gantulyst and Hydrolyst are just Teralysts, Kuva and Onslaught are just survival, and Umbra is just a specter" be any more meaningful?

Are you really trying to deny that the Plague Star event doesnt have a repainted Lephantys as a boss? Even in its second release they havent done anything on fixing graphics, bugs and whatnot the best they could do is to nerf ember to not be able to nuke the boss anymore.

This game is full of recycled content, we dont even need to leave Earth to get the experience of what awaits us along the startchart because its already there!

The tridolons are clones of each other, denying this is like saying that the frontier lancers and the drekar lancers are different enemies. Kuva survival is literally just a survival mission where you can collect kuva just because i throw in an item what lets you get kuva from an air support doesnt change anything about it, Onslaught is another glorified survival where instead of air you fight for time literally this is the closest we ever got to a new game mode.

Umbra is just a specter, nothing else. Seriously i cannot think of anything what could make him less interesting.

 

This game is full of unfinished content and it is nothing new, with some time on my hand i could probably dig up atleast 10 threads from 2016 saying the same thing as OP that we are full of unfinished trash and DE tend to abadon content as soon as they find their new "BIG IDEA".

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, TheKazz91 said:

Preamble) you're not wrong but I also think you're not really giving credit where credit is due. DE isn't a megalith studio they have around 220 employees last I heard and Warframe is often compared to games like Destiny made by Bungie which is sitting around 750 employees and the game is free. The fact that they are even in the same ball park as AAA studios that are typically 3-4 times their size is testament enough to the effort they are putting in. Would it be nice if they could do more sure but just keep in mind that the larger they get the less wiggle room there is for them to take risks and try new things especially with Warframe's free to play model. 

1) Yes the new player experience is probably the worst of any game I have ever played. If it were not for twitch streamers and youtubers explaining the game systems and answering questions I never would have kept playing. The scanning mission on mars was particularly frustrating for me as well I spent about a week trying to figure out how to get the stupid scanners (kept thinking that they would just give me like 5 so I could complete that or that I bought them from simaris or that they where a drop) Wasn't until I asked a streamer where how the heck you get scanners that I learned you just by them off the market for credits. Personally I'd love to see them redo the new player experience and introduce all the lore that is in the cepholon fragments as voiced audio clips or short cut scenes and maybe some mini story arcs that you go through on each planet that tells you who the heck everyone is and why we want to seemingly commit mass genocide against them. 

2) Eh I don't have a problem with the match making. The biggest problem is that it doesn't always select the most appropriate host. But it is still probably better than waiting 30 seconds in a que to run a 30 second capture mission. 

3) The fact that they are even bothering to go back and redo the old tile sets is pretty dope if you ask me. Most other games don't get that much love for old content. try firing up WoW and going in to BC areas... at least the vanilla areas got some love during cat but BC is just awful when you compare it side by side with the newest expansion areas. And again keep the team size in mind how good the new reworked area is looking and compare it to other triple A titles that are out now. 

4) your right the copy pasta content is on the uninspired side but I actually don't think plague star was that bad. the worst part about the eidolons is that they are only up for a limited time, and I am 100% ok with them never touching frame fighter again as I'd much rather see new content than updated minigames. 

 

The problem is from numbers and data given out DE could go and increase their staff and become an AAA game studio with ease, we could obviously go and praise their hard work and such but the feedback sections are not necessearly made for this. We are here to express problems, create sensible arguments and suggest changes for the better gameplay.

1) Just last night i was helping my brother doing the new strange quest. When he completed the 3 scanning he was standing there and asked me "Now what?" because the quest at no point tells you to get back to simaris for the next part. I dont think there are any games out there with worse new player experiences.

2) The whole problem with matchmaking is the hosting and the power of the host. It doesnt choose well who shall host, a migration can wipe all your earnings, sometimes it just fails to do anything. I was doing Akkad solo in the most busy time where the node is always full with people because the matchmaker simply doesnt wanted to put me in a squad.

3)When they said that i got happy because it sounded like some great step but it stopped almost instantly. They released earth rework and thats it.

4) Its not that plague star is horrible (thought i think it IS horrible) but that it looks like they took a bunch of assets from other game parts and decided to fabricate something "playable" from them. Recolored lephantys, copy-paste missions, long distance run so you dont realize how shallow it is in content and so on. The worst thing is that this was okayish on the first release but we are on the third already and nothing changed.

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned from off topic and rude posts.

I have to remind everyone to keep a constructive and respectful behavior. The OP is controversial indeed, yet that's not a good reason to start flinging ad-hominem attacks or spam memes. This is the general feedback section : not the Trump vs. Hillary debate.

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

On 2018-10-06 at 7:40 AM, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

DE is pumping out as much content as they cant with more than enough love than they should be legally be allowed to put into it.
>:U ya hear that DE stop spoiling us with all this love you shower onto us.

It's getting a very annoying that there are so many people an even youtubers saying that there is content droughts, lack of content, not enough of new content. But Do those people take in account that are beloved makers of Warframe are people to they are not cephalons constantly working non stop.
No they are made of flesh an blood, they have lives an families to go home to every day.

They don't have to put soo much time an effort into making the game as amazing as it is, but they do as it's both a labor of there love an what brings food to there tables.
Yes i do dread the wait between new content but that what makes all the new stuff so much more enjoyable. Its the wait an learning of how the progress is on what they are working on.

DE has put tons of the thoughts an feelings of there players into every new feature, update an hotfix they done. 
So many things they done just cause of player memes to ideas we the player base has talked about  that DE took an made into actual content in game.

I love warframe as each year it's not the same game its a game an half more than it was before.
 

To all you members of Digital Extremes i have to say that i respect every single one of you, for all the blood, sweat, tears, an sleepless nights you have poured into this game.
I will always love warframe an every one of your staff will not be just amazing people but people who actually know how to get work done an have abit of fun along the way.

Edit:
idk why this post that was used to make my own topic was moved into this topic 

Nailed it bro, spot on. The amount of content that this game has is absurd. There is always going to be people who have more time than others and have done 'everything' but this is not representative of the average joe. For us - there is still tonnes to do and the amount of work and engagement DE put into this game is astounding.

I feel like people are too entitled these days, the phrase 'armchair developers' was used earlier and I think that's a fair assessment. I could never dream of feeling so entitled that I thought my click bait rants on a forum should influence the developers, or that I have a right to do so. Of course we can give feedback - but this is different, this is straight up entitled complaining. There is no content drought, it isn't fair to expect DE to keep up with people who have put sooo many hours into this - that they will have something new for you every week/month. 

Can't you be content that they are working all hours every day to produce a quality piece of large content, to not only satisfy you but attract new players and grow their base? Get some perspective please. This is a job for them, they need to make sure the quality is there and they can only do things as fast as they can. 

This game possibly has the most content of any game i've played - most of us will always have something to do. You cannot expect DE to keep up with people who have completed everything - they are working on new stuff. Please get some perspective, calm down and respect the fact that this there job.

[VitasEtMortem]

The problem with complaining about 'content droughts' is the fact that if the notion gains enough traction(influence, if you will), DE will see it as critical to address this issue- but due to their current large projects, they CANNOT spare the time and don't even HAVE enough time to release something large to satisfy the complainers- so they have two options-

1. Rush big project(s)

2. Release small fillers as an attempt to keep a lid on these things.

Rushing big projects is a bad move for DE, as even though you'll get the big content out, it will be bugged and likely flawed, and the playerbase will scream and complain about this "poor content" and continue whining about "No real content, content drought", which puts even more pressure onto DE for better projects, which takes time, which makes people whine more, et cetera et cetera.

Now, DE has chosen the latter- to release small(er) fillers. The problem with this tactic is, the playerbase they are attempting to satisfy is NOT satisfied- they complain about the lack of quality content or somesuch. Not only do these projects take up time they could have used for improving their big project, it also feeds more fuel for the "content drought" train, causing more pressure to be put on DE, and since they are TRYING to improve their project, they attempt to release more fillers just to appease the masses(for a very short duration), which is not only not particularly useful( and sometimes even counterproductive), it takes up time, and, as with the other option, the cycle just repeats.

  No matter what they try to do to appease the raging people, it ends up bad. So, think- is your complaining really useful and/or constructive? SImply complaining about the 'content drought' without providing a feasible solution is pointless and mindless. If you want to complain, then why not help DE fix this problem faster? Provide a solution to the best of your ability and, if it is within DE's capabilities, you might even end up helping.

Some have suggested, say, medium-sized updates (Sorry, can't find the one i'm looking for somewhere in this forest to quote...) that would appease them and, they believe, a portion of the playerbase. Not to contend with the usefulness of these ideas, but, however, do note that this might not necessarily solve the 'content drought' problem many are claiming there is- it might make you happy, and certainly the like-minded portion, but would this do anything for the other portions? It would delay what they see as needed, which would cause conflicting interests and general losses for DE. Can they afford, or, more likely, are they willing to take the hit? They, from what I see, truly care about the game, but they are still a company, and this is their livelihood. They also need that money to fund these projects and for general costs. so, say they follow your ideas, what if the masses are still not appeased? More people will rage due to the delay, and this will further exacerbate the problem.

So, some may ask, if you propose for everyone to have their own solutions, what is your solution? I admit I have no prior knowledge as to how to run a major company, much less one involving gaming, which fluctuates widely. However, i believe that easing on the complaining and giving DE some space to work on their ideas will allow them to deliver earlier, and deliver well - something the vast majority of playerbase wants. This, in turn, lets the players be (more) satisfied. The results of these projects can also allow DE to get feedback on what the players prefer, allowing them to fine-tune their future decisions to better cater to the community.

Not saying that complaining is bad- after all, motivation is an absolute necessity for good work- but this is just something to chew on for others. Just spelling out my thoughts in general. Sorry for the Great Wall of text! (Sheesh, did i just contribute to the argument? Woops.)

Have fun- no matter your opinion! It's important not to overlook the things in life while striving for other things, after all. See you!

Edited October 9, 2018 by VitasEtMortem

[(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy]

This game isn’t perfect but to go so far as to say it’s lazy and mediocre is a stretch. The game is a grind. It’s built into its DNA. It’s the limiting factor for better or for worse. Everything about this game revolves around doing the same things over and over. So if you are to appreciate what this game does and how it separates itself from its competition, that’s something you need to accept. This game is catered to a specific type of gamer and if you are this type, then the game will be fantastic for you. Now with the new player experience and matchmaking, I absolutely agree. The game isn’t new player friendly at all which makes it offputting to new players. Not only that, I feel as though the game does its very best to hide how you can earn free gear. I mean the first thing you see once you get your ship are all the cool frames and weapons you can get with a hefty plat price tag on all of them making it feel like less of a free game. Matchmaking is also terrible at times. I end up playing solo a lot cuz the game can never seem to get a squad together a times or I just disconnect cuz their connection is bad. However I can excuse this a little bit as this game was made by a smaller team who doesn’t have the luxury of dedicated servers. They did the best with what they have. If this were released by Ubisoft, EA, Activision, or some other mainstream publisher, then this would be unacceptable. Plus we’d have prime loot boxes on everything and the mod packs would be the only way to get mods 

[--END--Rikutatis]

I disagree on 1 and 4 for sure. I enjoy this more rough and "go fend for yourself" new player experience. It was one of the things that differentiated Warframe from other watered down hand holding game experiences for me early on. I had to do research and learn things, it was way more complex than a game like Destiny. Warframe is already super casual at this point, there's no need for the pandering and hand holding new player experiences other games have. On top of that, the complexity in Warframe's systems is what stops many players to keep playing, even the most user friendly experience wouldn't change that. 

Match making could definitely use a lot more QoL changes to make it more streamlined and modern, but I have no clue how feasible that might be given how old the code is and how much they'd need to go back and change in order to make some of those things happen. 

As for rushed fire and forget content, seems like you were mostly repeating what Life of Rio said in his latest vid, and I think it's a very short sighted view. First, from a business standpoint, spending time and resources on game modes and content that have been poorly received or were outright failures in terms of reception is risky at best. Sure, they could _maybe_ turn things around at best, but more likely than not it'll just be wasted time and resources on game modes people already decided to ditch. Calling ESO a reskinned survival is a stretch really, I certainly don't like ESO, but it's definitely its own thing. The tridolons were the best addition to Warframe's endgame and gameplay in recent time. Even after playing Monster Hunter World and coming back to WF, I still enjoy those boss battles. You totally failed to mention the complete weapon rework which is exactly what you have been asking for in terms of revisiting old systems and making them matter, they spend a good portion of the year doing this to all weapons. And so far the rework has been great. Kuva survival is just a survival but the added mechanics of protecting the pod was enough to totally change the dynamics of how it is played, I think it was a brilliant and fun game mode (that only suffers from lack of scaling). Sometimes the best creations come from simple tweaks, you don't need flashy new toys everytime. 

I'm not a white knight, I've been very critical of DE's catering to casual play and new players and rejection of challenging and endgame content. But this whole content drought riot is just silly at this point. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that the reactions to it (specially from certain big youtubers) are just silly and overblown. Warframe dying, lol. 

[DeathDweller]

Wait for Fortuna, see what it has to offer and if it worth the wait.If there is a drought again after that, complain all you want but for now give them some slack cause it's supposed to be a one time only thing.Let's wait...

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

As for my part I also feel this drought, even if I don't mind it much since I just go play other games and do only my daily tasks. Does Warframe need more content, literally? No. We have more content than ever being released per year. Just one thing about all that content, it's crammed into a single mega-update. And there's a few things to consider on this.

DE, as well as the community, have some choices to make regarding the content releases.

1. Release everything in a big pack? Sure, it'll take time and create a drought, but it'll also bring more quality out of said, polished, content.
2. Release content in smaller, more frequent updates? Sure as well. It's quicker, avoids a drought but also becomes an obstacle to bigger endeavors like Railjack and open worlds (not that it can't be bypassed)
3. No matter the content release frequency, how to assign the human resources to said content? Right now it seems we have a mega team working on the big pack (Fortuna) and just a few devs here and there for the bare minimum needed (I.e. Rebecca watching over the community, or release of low quality content just to keep players busy on a short term, as it was with Onslaught, or other smaller projects)

How would I do it, were I DE? I can't speak for DE, nor do I know their numbers and decision thought processes, but I'd try my hardest to assign a big part of the studio to Fortuna (Insert here any big content drop as well), yet not sacrificing the valuable human resources needed for other stuff. Not the bare minimum, but at least a number of people to generate more events and create better, more durable content (I'm hopeful for the Elite Alerts tbh).

Let's say, let's get a small team to focus on bringing back old events and even create a new one, instead of Ghouls, Razorback, Ghouls, Fomorian, Ghouls, Ghouls, Plague Star, Ghouls, Armada, Ghouls, and so on...

But it would delay Fortuna! How can that be?! As I've said: Choices. We can't have everything. We can't complain about DE not releasing The War Within Fortuna on time, and then complain that there's no content to play. Unless DE becomes a gaming titan, that is. DE wants feedback, but that feedback must not be contradictory. How so, you ask? It's happened recently, in fact. For years the community complained on how the game is unbalanced in general, and how we were tired of band-aids. Part of the content drought translates to non-worthy content like the Melee 3.0 and Weapon Rework the community asked so strongly. It was needed, but it cost us more fun content.

I mean DE can only do what's best for us if we tell them how to. They can't do that if half of the community says go left, and the other half says go right. When that happens, and since DE is having trouble deciding what path to take, it's dividing the game itself apart in regards to it's goals. How so? Examples of these contradictions:

• I want Endgame, a challenge vs This game should be laidback, it's PVE
• I want a rebalance vs I want moar gun-ho, more frames, more everything
• The game should be simplified to get new players to play it vs This game is so dumbed down and easy, newbies are bad and veterans are forgotten
• There should be no exclusives apart from Excal Prime vs Muh hard-earned Rift Sigil, Founder List on Relays, Lato and Braton Vandal, etc.
• Moar open worlds, moar graphics, moar ground-breaking game modes like Railjack vs The game already has too much, my potato pc is gonna burst!
• I want more content, more regularly! vs Let DE work, I'm fine waiting for a big quality pack like Fortuna
• etc.
• etc.
• etc.

None of these are wrong, they're just mostly incompatible. And all of these complaints are not occasional threads, all of those are full blown heat periods we've had somewhat recently, or should I go get the Gradivus Dilemma story out of the old dusty closet? I know veterans remember the good ol' Gradivus and all the passion that came with it. It's not wrong, it's just that Warframe needs to pick a direction, and players will need to accept it. Are there consequences? Sure, there always are, with everything. Do we love the game? Sure as well, just diverging opinions on different matters. What matters is adapting to the outcome, or be left behind no matter said outcome. Other than that cheers to the community.

[Vox_Preliator]

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Are you really trying to deny that the Plague Star event doesnt have a repainted Lephantys as a boss? Even in its second release they havent done anything on fixing graphics, bugs and whatnot the best they could do is to nerf ember to not be able to nuke the boss anymore.

This game is full of recycled content, we dont even need to leave Earth to get the experience of what awaits us along the startchart because its already there!

The tridolons are clones of each other, denying this is like saying that the frontier lancers and the drekar lancers are different enemies. Kuva survival is literally just a survival mission where you can collect kuva just because i throw in an item what lets you get kuva from an air support doesnt change anything about it, Onslaught is another glorified survival where instead of air you fight for time literally this is the closest we ever got to a new game mode.

Umbra is just a specter, nothing else. Seriously i cannot think of anything what could make him less interesting.

This game is full of unfinished content and it is nothing new, with some time on my hand i could probably dig up atleast 10 threads from 2016 saying the same thing as OP that we are full of unfinished trash and DE tend to abadon content as soon as they find their new "BIG IDEA".

No, I didn't deny that Plagued Star has a recolor, because it does.  At least the scenery is different, but the Hemocyte is just a Lephantis that sucks.  Good thing I never even brought that up.

Sure, if you go in and oneshot the Eidolons a dozen times over before they can do anything, of course they're going to seem like clones.  But their attacks, design, and numbers are all different, requiring different amounts of care, preparation, a strategy to fight them, were they not trivialized.

I'm not sure where I suggested that Kuva survival or Onslaught was anything else, I was pointing out they didn't need to be, or should be, anything else and were what were asked for.

Er, nothing?  How about nothing?  Would that really be more interesting than integrating story and gameplay to show that Umbra still retains a will?

[Teridax68]

I very much dislike the tone of the OP (EDIT: This was for the OP of a thread that got merged onto here, not the megathread OP), particularly since I don't believe this year has been all that catastrophic (in fact, I think things overall have been largely pretty good), but nonetheless, I think it makes some very good points. I do think there's a pretty significant issue of DE releasing content that doesn't tie into the rest of the game or secure a proper place of its own: the end result now is that there's this vast amount of content in Warframe that exists, but that we hardly know of or care about, because it was just released at some point then quickly forgotten in favor of the new project du jour. DE has a habit of working on content that gets dropped much later on for no apparent reason, and while it's okay if that content doesn't enter the game, it becomes much more difficult to justify this once that threshold is crossed. Warframe could benefit immensely from a game-wide consistency pass, one that would take all of these loose ends, and tie them together properly.

Another problem with DE's content production pipeline, at least one that's been a major issue this year, is that the developers don't seem to have found the right balance between focusing on bigger projects, and releasing smaller content milestones in-between. It's honorable that DE wants to release such massive open worlds to us in such little time, but devoting so many resources towards that, to the near-complete exclusion of all other work, is what's generated this year's content drought. Worse, the content that we have received has been stunted, and in several cases half-baked: the Sacrifice I think was a good quest, but Khora and Revenant I think have had some of the worst releases out of any frame in recent history, and clearly could've used a lot more polish and attention (the Revenant quest is also pure filler). DE needs to be able to strike a balance between large and small updates, one where we can still look forward to massive updates down the line, without having to essentially put the game on ice for months at a time.

A few more points:

17 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

3- Level design: I was surprised when DE said they would re-work one tile set from the game. I was mad when they confirmed it was Corpus Gas City. Why? Because its one of the few that don't really need a rework. There are a bunch of outdated, poorly designed and uninspired tile sets in desperate need of a rework, like Europa, Eris, Uranus, Corpus Ship; and they just decided to pick one of the few that don't really need. Also, if its going to take months to update a map and deliver only ONE tile set rework per year, retaining new players and keeping veterans investing in this game will be much, much harder. Half of this game's maps were made with movement 1.0 in mind. It is, again, insulting, to have a game in 2018 using something as outdated in concept as 2013 and with no prospects of updating and keeping up with the current game. How long will it take for them to finally realize that Eris is a horrid tileset not because of the Infested monsters but because of horribly misplaced out-of-bonds teleports, claustrophobic poorly designed corridors with chewed gum splattered all over the place and being a super dark place without an option for a flashlight? Or how long will they realize that Europa makes players sad not because its a cold desolate place but because of it being a gigantic map full of giant empty areas and with an annoying, ridiculous constant cold damage that makes no sense?

I completely agree with this. On one hand, I love how the new Corpus Gas City tileset looks, and I congratulate DE for it: seeing the leaps and bounds in tech and design, and having Rebecca look out of one of the new promontories into the vast gas clouds of Jupiter made me literally cry in awe. Assuming this new tileset plays as beautifully as it looks, it'll be the standard I'd want every other tileset in the game to be brought to. On the other hand, I can't help but feel a little disappointed, because the current Gas City tileset is already one of the best in the game: unlike so many other tilesets, it has verticality, open and multi-level rooms, pathways that reward people for knowing the levels and using parkour, and just a general design that makes traversal an absolute joy. Meanwhile, as mentioned in the OP, there are so many tilesets out there that are just a collection of low-ceilinged corridors, made even worse in some cases by jagged geometry and out-of-bounds indicators that are really starting to show their age. I'm pretty sure DE could have done just as spectacular a job if they had updated any one of those tilesets, and the game could've benefited significantly more from it in the immediate.

17 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

Another big, BIG problem with new player experience and progression is how DE completely ignores that 90% of their lore and story content was developed and displayed in long-dead events of years ago. Who the heck is Salad V? Why is Nef Anyo constantly babbling about the Void? HOW IS ALAD V STILL ALIVE AFTER WE KILLED HIM? Why we have to collect Ambulas Nav Beacons (whatever those are) and who the heck is Frohd Beck again? All of this was shown in the form of (very) old events that are long gone. If any new player has 1% of curiosity and want to knows the answers to these questions, he MUST READ THE WIKIA! REALLY!?!?!? After the event is done, DE just slaps a boss fight in whatever planet and call that a go. This is simply shameful. Why not make use of all that good-ol voice acting and missions and turn these long dead events into mini quests to at least help players situate themselves and have a bare-minimal idea of why the heck he is going to kill Random Corpus Scientist #46? The answer is that they were probably too busy on the next batch of content they will never touch again. Ever.

This I also agree with, even if I don't think it's world-endingly bad. Warframe has this amazing lore and some pretty compelling characters, but it's difficult to appreciate this in an environment where so much context-establishing content is locked behind time-sensitive events that are no longer accessible. I was around at the time of Operation Rathuum and Ambulas Reborn, so I know a bit more of Kela De Thaym, as well as the relationship between Ergo Glast, Frohd Bek and Animo, but I wasn't around at the time of the Tubemen of Regor event, so I have no real way of understanding why Tyl Regor hates me so much. Had someone joined just now and played through all of this content, they would likely be completely lost. This ties into the above problem of fire-and-forget content, where content is made that is beneficial to the game, but for reasons unknown is either forgotten or even no longer allowed to be played again. It would be of significant benefit if we players could relive old events in some way, perhaps by simulating them through Simaris. Implementing that story throughout each planet, perhaps with a quest intended to emulate the relevant event, would also help.

I also agree that the new player experience needs a lot more refining: Specters of the Rail did a lot of good, but the game still fails to convey many necessary mechanics to new players, and from many accounts also tries a little too early and too hard to pressure players into spending money on slots. We have a great community, but that's not a reason to rely on this community to provide basic information to players who may not even know where to look. On top of this, damaged mods are a pretty scammy system that make players feel bad for putting resources into them; the better solution would be to simply have the actual mods they represent drop from early quests.

Finally, I think one problem that's commonly mentioned, but wasn't brought up, is that there are still pretty major problems with the game's balance, and its end-game replayability. We've gotten a few modes geared towards higher-end players, but ultimately everything that we do in this game is on a linear, finite trajectory: we grind content, and once there is no more content to grind, there is no reason to play until the next batch of content. This needs to change. Additionally, the game needs a serious rebalance, both to eliminate the cheese that arises at higher levels, both from players and from enemies (we can make ourselves into nigh-invincible killing machines by abusing nonexistent Energy contraints, but high-level enemies are also bullet sponges that can one-shot us, while sometimes also completely negating our abilities). Doing so should also perhaps help with the aforementioned problem of sectioned content: Warframe is a game with an immense amount of content, but it often doesn't feel like it, because there's only a tiny portion of it that is relevant, let alone challenging to us at any given time. Making it so that any part of the game, including the Star Chart, can pose a fun challenge for players at all levels, and so that there's always a reason to play through any of the content the game has to offer, would defragment the playerbase significantly, and make the game feel orders of magnitude larger and more replayable.

Despite the harsh tone of some of the posts here, I think it's worth bearing in mind that, in the vast majority of cases here, these criticisms are made with love and passion. I can speak only for myself here, but when I criticize Warframe, I do so because I care very much about the game, and want to see it prosper. In some cases, this might mean suggesting opportunities for new content, and sometimes it might entail pointing out how the game's current content could be improved. This doesn't preclude giving DE due praise, and I think the developers do amazing work, even during this year's content drought, but it does mean giving constructive criticism, which not everyone may enjoy hearing.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Teridax68

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb TheKazz91:

The fact that they are even in the same ball park as AAA studios that are typically 3-4 times their size is testament enough to the effort they are putting in.

Well, if they're on par financially with AAA companies like the ones you mentioned (like steam sale charts do suggest) while only sporting a fraction of employees of said studios... welllll, how about taking those monies and, like, maybe just hire a tiny handful of guys for quality assurance? Like, instead of a yearly friggin convention to basically just celebrate themselves?

I share the OPs sentiment that their priorities are clearly off in multiple regards and personally i'm much more concerned about the state of existing content rather than some drought of new stuff. Like how even the most basic gaming experience is unbalanced without compare.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

I'd like more spontaneity with basic missions. Running a Corpus Capture mission just for Grineer to bust in looking for the same person and having to mow them down, that would be cool. Of course, that might be a pain for people who don't have a lot of time, so maybe objectives like this could be entirely optional. Capture the target and book it, or take the time to wipe out a horde of Grineer for additional rewards. Maybe a sabotage mission, but it turns out that what you're destroying could be valuable. Destroy it to keep it out of some faction's hands, or fend them off and wait for pickup.