[PC] C̶̹̃h̴̊̍̐͜i̶͓̩͛̽m̸̨̈́͘e̴̤̒ŕ̸͉͋̕å̸̙̭͕: Update 23.10 - Arbitrations: Lethal Alerts Feedback Megathread

[Radagosh]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb mikakor:

For the love of God could people stop saying that Endo is useless? I am far in the game , yet I only have 3 or 4 primed mod maxed out, so these rewards are perfect for me, except that the ayatan should come pre-filled. 

hope you read my statement about me having around 1mil endo and thus seeing it as useless beyond belief. I understand that different players have different needs but as it stands the new mode is purely endo and mods. And once you have the mods it's way more efficient to run arenas for endo, which in result will lead to noone playing the gamemode in the longrun. Just look at normal Onslaught as a reference or even ESO to some extent.

They could change the sculptures for other rewards like kuva or formas or change the rotation rewards to tokens altogether, which we could then exchange for rewards at their trader. (Expand the trader and remove the aspect of rng, to give us control)

[DatLoon]

21 минуту назад, Radagosh сказал:

hope you read my statement about me having around 1mil endo and thus seeing it as useless beyond belief. I understand that different players have different needs but as it stands the new mode is purely endo and mods. And once you have the mods it's way more efficient to run arenas for endo, which in result will lead to noone playing the gamemode in the longrun. Just look at normal Onslaught as a reference or even ESO to some extent.

They could change the sculptures for other rewards like kuva or formas or change the rotation rewards to tokens altogether, which we could then exchange for rewards at their trader. (Expand the trader and remove the aspect of rng, to give us control)

If you understand that players have different needs, then you also can understand that removing endo completely from rotation will bring more harm than good because there are many more players who actually need endo despite being high mastery rank. Imho nice solution for sinking universal resources like this would be ability to exchange them for other resources whose are rare and have bad rng. It will help game economy, because players will have more choices where to spend resource instead of mindlessly stocking it and complaining 99% of population didn't have same amounts of endo.

I honestly hoped that Strata will be that sink, like, players will be able to give resources they saved for long for faster construction or something. Event was fast and gave us reward as new relay and weapon/cosmetics but I hoped it will also let us give resources we stock for so long. Like, I am one of those players who still needs endo and glad Arbi gives it but I will gladly get rid off my 3mil of nanospores on something game event related.

[Toran]

vor 39 Minuten schrieb Radagosh:

hope you read my statement about me having around 1mil endo and thus seeing it as useless beyond belief. I understand that different players have different needs but as it stands the new mode is purely endo and mods. And once you have the mods it's way more efficient to run arenas for endo, which in result will lead to noone playing the gamemode in the longrun. Just look at normal Onslaught as a reference or even ESO to some extent.

They could change the sculptures for other rewards like kuva or formas or change the rotation rewards to tokens altogether, which we could then exchange for rewards at their trader. (Expand the trader and remove the aspect of rng, to give us control)

I agree on Endo. As supposed endgame content, this is a resource you probably need the least or can produce in far higher numbers and shorter time in The Arena.

For a long run mode, Lethal Alerts are simply too boring... While you don't have to constantly mash buttons as in ESO, you have to fight staying aware/awake. Honestly, I don't see me farming 30 hours to get enough Vitus for the items in store. And for Mods, it's probably cheaper and less time-consuming to buy em.

I'm afraid entertaining challenge is a thing restricted to newcomers to the game who still have to worry about damage types, making headshots, taking cover and generally need more skill to beat content on their own.

If there was a thing like a mission editor, I'd strip us all of our precious multi-forma, riven-modded weapons, our Arcanes, our Augment Mods and our maxed out Focus Schools and Warframes. Instead I'd bring up hand-tailored tough daily or weekly missions with a fixed loadout and player skill-related challenges (testing your aim, movement, teamplay, spatial awareness, dexterity etc.). 

With Warframe in its current form it's next to impossible to throw a challenging mission type at us if you can use your complete arsenal. The enemies are too dumb, have too little special abilities and we have too many options to cheese it out. Sure it might be nice to feel like a demigod, but the option to fail has its charm too.

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Toran

[.macie2]

I would love minimum requirements to go up a bit.

Clearing Star Chart is not enough, especially when lower MR can glitch a ride in.(seems they are repeating TennoCon relay glitch)

Seen a lot of new players just jumping in for endo and leaving early, especially on survivals, the elite alerts should be treated as some form of rewards to old players, and people that have grinded through all content,  not a quick endo farm spot for new players.

It makes no sense making this available to new players since they dont need actually to grind much content to have these available. Make it MR or Quest Completion Locked

And yes i have seen mr8 going into alerts.

These players will never actually run through the game content per se.

My other suggestions below.

1. Option to stay should be given to stay or extract in survivals.at rotations (this should have been done a long time ago). ,<------------------------------------------

2.Rewards tables should be re-evaulated and be better for time spent in same mission(same as fissures), so far interceptions are the only missions worth doing.

3 Rewards drops should be less endo, more cosmetic , rare relics or mods.,  so it does not become ´the one and only endo farm.in the game .(excavations and a lot of content of starchart content will become obsolete if so) 

4 Materials should not be in the reward table (EVER) there are missions for farming those materials.

5. Failure should mean NO rewards whatsoever. Big Risk Big Gains. - staying (gambling) would be even higher risks even higher gains ( increasing like fissures ) Rotations should a bit smaller on duration though to encourage players go for the full hour( or make the missions more scarce (every 2 or 3 hours)

6. Defense Hostage should scale with enemies so it doesn´ t get one shot. since he cant be revived.

7. Should encourage team play , not I´m tanky- look at my Riven and watch my saryn clear the map( Saryn rework made her completely unbalanced from other frames )

8. Also minimum benchmark should be done to avoid people on toasters and 64k modem connections to be hosts. <<-------

 

A final "constructive" criticism, rant, 😃

With the removals of the raids, the only real coop content of the game, aside for the eidolon grind ( which can be soloed)  there is no real coop content in the game anymore. 

I think  the game has shifted from COOP  to DPS competitions where players run to different sides of the map .

There rarely is a required synergy of frames to go into a mission anymore. (like you need on eidolons and the vaulted raids).

 

Thank you all,

Clem Forever !

have a great week!

 

[Ordo_Hereticus]

Bump up the initial levels from 60~80 to 80~100

Instead of usual HP stats drones should have object-based ones, discourages melee while encourages hard-hitting accurate weapons

Increase the speed of rotations, currently its just boring and tedious

Leave no revives, but allow bleedouts

Increase enemy spawn rate

 

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

"Allow the buffed Warframes and weapons to Ignore Arbitration drone protections."

NO...

Its already very easy to take down the Drones and most of the times when they die they often take the mobs they were protecting along. Get a good AoE weapon like the Staticor!

He does make some legit points since why would you try to use +300% strenght Zephyr with +300% damage fang prime if they are both worthless in the sceniario?

We know that the drones are easy target (if they dont bug out) but they effectively make the boons pointless.

[Radagosh]

vor einer Stunde schrieb ThousandLights:

 

 

that's why i suggested removing the rewards altogether and instead expand the token system which may include sculptures, endo, kuva, arcanes, keys, whatever.

But hey that would be less RnG and actually rewarding. And DE really likes their RnG in spite of them telling us they want to reduce the grind.

 

[Gypsy_Goat]

You get way more endo from doing Vodyanoi .  The rewards just aren't there.

[KrazyKavatLady]

On 2018-10-13 at 6:55 PM, ReshyShira said:

Return Bleed-outs

No.

Once you're down, you're dead. 

You're supposed to be more careful and avoid going down.

[Peter]

First of all, congratulations for the initiative, for the first time I can see a reason for not wanting to leave me throwing around like an inconsequent kid, but still it is not as challenging as I hoped, I understand that the goal is not to see the squad die in the first 5 minutes, but currently it is possible to do more than 1 hour of mission without much effort.

• The 300% buff system:
  • Very good idea, makes me want to play with frames and weapons that I usually do not want to play, however, it would be interesting if we could have a greater variety of buffs that affect other attributes besides strength and damage.

 

• Initial Level, spawn rate and challenge:
  • Again I say that I understand that the purpose of this mission is not to kill the squadron in the first 5 minutes of mission, but I believe that level 60 is well below expectations, and in almost all missions the spawn rate only starts to get good after 30 minutes, which makes the mission a bit tedious. often making me believe that Sortie is more challenging than a mission that needed 227 nodes unlocked to be able to play, and more, expected more challenges since the mods of this alert are really powerful being disproportionate to the power faced here, in some cases it is possible to see random squads able to spend more than two hours and laughing at not finding difficulty.
  • Suggestion: Increase the initial level to 100, increase scaling level and spawn rate.

 

• Aribtration Sentinel:
  • Your hitbox is disproportionate with the model, it covers only the bottom.

 

• Extracting and Abort:
  • It does not matter if you are in a random group or a recruited group, you would always see having someone who wants to extract before everyone else, and if you do not agree to extract with him he will stay at the extraction point earning the rewards until you do not hold the child's scream and end up drawing with it.
  • Suggestion: When aborting you do not lose the prizes anymore.

 

• Rewards:
  • I can not complain, all this Endo really helps, but it would be interesting to add really rare prizes with less than 1% in C-rotation to give that special touch, do not get me wrong, but an end- endo, and these mods are almost free in the market (result of putting rare mods with 3.5% lol), in addition, there are players who do not even need Endo anymore.
  • Suggestion: I suggest putting interesting things like legendary core and primed chamber, but please put it at a really low value like 0.01% or will lose their value.
  • Kuva and Vitus Essence: Another addition that would be interesting and that would not affect the drops table would be to put Kuva as trading item by Vitus Essence, it would be interesting something like 1 Vitus for 1000 ~ 3000 Kuva (remember that every Vitus takes on average 10 minutes of mission.

 

• Mods:
  • I do not know if it was intentional but high drop % made these powerful mods accessible even for the newest players, not that it really matters since low level content can be gained by using basic mods.
  • Feedback on the mods is in this link, I will not bring it here so the post does not get giant.

 

That was my feedback on Arbitrations, my goal here is to only improve this mode because I see a promising future here, feel free to discuss.

Thanks for reading.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Peter

[Synpai]

.-. why not use the megathread? 

Feedback->Missions

 

Regardless, most of what you've said has been a common theme in the megathread.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Synpai

[Peter]

7 minutes ago, Synpai said:

.-. why not use the megathread? 

Feedback->Missions

 

Regardless, most of what you've said has been a common theme in the megathread.

Thanks, i'll tell to moderation to move the topic.

 

[Klokwerkaos]

To ensure ongoing game health for this game mode:

Use vitus essence to buy stars and kuva.  Something like 2 for a blue star, 5 for an orange, 10 vitus essence for 5k kuva.  This provides an evergreen option to make this game mode not better than other options but useful to play after the main rewards are farmed.  It shouldn't be a bad option since these rates are much lower than what you can earn elsewhere in game if you farm for those things directly.

What this does is it ensures we can still gain value from playing the game mode even after we have cosmetics and mods unlocked.  It allows reward diversity as well.

As others have said, pathing issues are abound, and we need a better spawn rate.

Minimum MR 15 should be a flat out requirement.  I've already had MR 6s multiple times.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[DeaHamlet]

Issues:

- The types are not equally balanced in terms of time and effort vs reward. This may be due just to pathing/spawning issues in maps and the requirement for mobs in certain modes (survival, excavation) and the need to kill all to move on in defense. I'm not convinced that fixing those issues would make defense equal to interception. Suggestion: Don't make the good ones worse, make defense and survival more on par with the interception. 

- There is not enough variety in rewards to keep anyone in there for more than ABC most times. Endo is endo and the difference between 2% and 3.5% mod drop chance is nothing. Eventually everyone will have the mods so endo is what will keep people playing. I still need a ton of endo and I don't like arena, but I'm just not sure just making it an endo farm will keep people excited. And the difference between A and the third C is still kind of small in terms of endo. Suggestions: add kuva and other rewards (riven however would make it impossible for those at 91/90 riven to participate so no), maybe made forma, nitain at low drop rate; add special rewards the farther you go in rather than just C repeating; keep adding fashion items; rotate fashion items as drops in rotation C, so that each day or week is still worthwhile.

- Evacuation. Survival and excavation are terrible because they force you to stay until 2 people leave. While you get the rotation rewards, I think if you leave or leave when dead, nothing else from the mob drops comes with you. And you don't get cryotics, which is the still pretty valuable. The other modes have people complaining that they can't continue because too many people left and now they're stuck waiting for the next arbitration. Nobody should be held hostage for 40+ minutes of ABC, no matter what. Suggestions: everything should have individual evac like interception and defense, but increase the reward for staying longer to make it more enticing. 

- Host migration is garbage. Between losing rewards and dying/failing because the map isn't frozen during migration, it's a frustrating experience. And it's been happening a ton more since the update. I lost 7 waves of xp on Hydron because a host migration disconnected me from my party and when I came back I had zero loot and xp. Only got what I got from wave 8 to 10. That's pure garbage. Suggestion: fix, fix, fix. Give all rewards instantly on host migration (not on aborting mission). Give rotation rewards at end of rotation rather than when leaving. 

- Time does not equal difficulty. It is just a drag,especially defense. Suggestion: Amp the level of mobs, do something to increase challenge while shortening the time. 

- power strength is not a universally desired buff for warframes. Suggestion: add in health, shields, armor, duration, efficiency, energy max, as other options. Make it random, not warframe specific so it's a spice. Sometimes it's op as hell, sometimes it's a dud. More fun that way!!! This might also make it appealing to take a nuke squishy frame if they get randomly an hp or armor modifier. 

- the mode is hidden from players until they unlock all nodes. There needs to be some internal way for the game to tell people "look, there's this cool mode and here's how to get into it". Suggestion: once you have played at least one node on each planet, show the event with a lock. Clicking on it takes the player to the npc in relay that explains what the mode is and how to unlock it, still giving the option to see what nodes you still need. 

Great aspects:

- You encourage survivability. Long enough people ran squishy frames with maximum dps with no or low investment in survivability. Long enough people just ran something to smash the map in seconds. Love this new mode for this. 

- One life. It may seem harsh, but one life makes you really pay attention. It is just not the same if teammates can revive you, you'll just blame them instead of playing smart. No more getting carried! 

- Rewards for rotation stay even if you die, fail or abort. (I assume aborting keeps them, I haven't tested; if it doesn't, why not, why keep people hostage in survival???) Makes you more likely to keep risking and trying for more. Otherwise you'd just play it safe always getting out before being overwhelmed. 

- Rewards are diverse: mats, mods and fashion. (there's still issues, see above) 

- Making the completion of star chart a requirement. Any decent requirement would have done, but this one is fairly decent. 

- the new drones. Love them, they make things a ton more exciting. Hilarious when together with an ancient healer! 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by DeaHamlet

[.macie2]

Its nice actually seeing proper feedback

Edited October 15, 2018 by .macie2

[Wandrecanada]

15 hours ago, caveswallow said:

if you really wanted to, you could have died and left the mission and kept the essence and rotation rewards.

 

Vitus Essence is an extraction reward. If you die you get no extraction rewards (it even tells you this in the popup message).

For now I highly recommend avoiding public Survivals as it's the only real mission type where players could hold your rewards hostage for their own gain.

[SilverRook]

meh was gonna write some feedback but its all been covered already 

 

only thing i would add is reduce the reward tiers from 10 rounds to 5 again. or give us a revive at the end of the round.

and defence missions can die in a fire.
Got to round 10 - during round ten the defence target just got annihilated game over ..... great thanks for wasting my time. with ZERO reward. 

PFFFFFFTttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

what happened to the complete X task to proceed ? 

like each player needs ten headshots with a pistol to open a portal etc..... THAT is my idea of fun. give us that 

 

 

 

[Renzo]

For the love of Lotus, please remove any and all ice planet tileset defense and interception from all the possible tilesets. These are awful and terribly bugged every single time they appear. I was in an interception just now, on one of the outdoors ice planet tilesets, where the enemies did not get to the interception nodes at all. Why? Because they were stuck in the starting point of the map and were waiting there doing nothing.

[DeaHamlet]

15 minutes ago, Wandrecanada said:

Vitus Essence is an extraction reward. If you die you get no extraction rewards (it even tells you this in the popup message).

For now I highly recommend avoiding public Survivals as it's the only real mission type where players could hold your rewards hostage for their own gain.

Excavation is the same. 

[DeaHamlet]

5 hours ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

I will state one example to show how bad this idea is: Saryn.
I'll elaborate this to ANY area of effect damage-dealer.

Mesa. She can pump so much dps without even aiming that even at 50% the drone wouldn't have a chance. 

The drones are fine as they are. Small, annoying, but easy to take down if you come prepared. I've even taken them down with marelok, but it's easier with an aoe weapon like ignis for sure. 

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

18 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I'm enjoying Arbitrations and I think the no revive modifier is brilliant, it adds a layer of tension to the game mode, pls don't listen to the complaints on this, it's meant to be a challenge!

It's hardly brilliant when Warframe can't support it properly. They've basically created a solo/friends only mission unless you want to roll the dice on host migrations. Recruiting isn't even an option here...if whomever ends up host dies, they'll want to bail and who can blame them.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

Can we please have this changed? This really screws over Shield of Shadows builds for Nekros, especially in Arbitrations.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1018670-nekros-shadows-of-the-dead-resets-upon-host-migration/

[Gene_Freak]

My biggest disappointment in Arbitrations is that it's exclusively endless modes. When you proposed the idea of "elite alerts" the entire reason I was excited was that alerts are bite-sized by nature and this game is seriously lacking in quick high-level content. The recently added modes, this and Onslaught, were both initially hyped as fast, hit-and-run action, but ended up being built around needing some real time commitments.

Please consider implementing actual "elite alerts", traditional alerts with challenging enemies and scaled rewards. It doesn't need to provide statues or faction tokens, just let me run a level 80 exterminate for thirty thousand credits and, like, a thousand endo or three Orokin Cells - nothing outrageous, just something quick and fun for veterans to do that doesn't take up a lot of time or require an organized crew.

[MixtheBlender]

I get it arbitration drones is what makes the mission challenging, but some changes are needed.

1. Drones are a bit too small: While trying to avoid getting one shotted by enemy bullets, AoE beam weapons like arca plasmor and ignis wraith are almost a necessity to reliably kill these nano creature, thus limiting weapon choice.
2. Drones shield unlimited amount of enemies: As enemy waves scales, it requires more time to kill. With drones being so small, if I did not immediately detect and failed to kill it, hordes of shielded enemies can easily destroy me and defense npc. Sometimes there will be a second drone, so it becomes extra hard to counter.

Suggestion:

• Make drones bigger for sake of visibility.
• Make warframe power able to effect the drone while shielded enemies are still unaffected, so we still have to be careful.
• Give a shield cap to drones.

[Shockwave-]

This  new mode is just ok. It doesn't achieve what Warframe sorely needs. A hard mission. This is a gimmicky mission. Things immune to war frame powers, no revives.

This doesn't encourage teamwork. Because it is no revives it is all about individual survival, not a group effort. Can't bring even one squishy frame and have the others protect it in any real sense. What the game really needs is a mission that lets us us our warframes and actually takes skill to complete (or skill to complete well, and make it so completing it well gives you a better chance at better rewards).

raising a downed ally should always be allowed, even if reviving yourself is disabled. If you let your teammate die, then they are out. Void mode operator has always been so cheese it should never have been allowed in the first place (easy invisible revive while your war frame is invulnerable). I'm still finding that in arbitration survival nobody stays together and works together. Raising, but not reviving would encourage people to stay and work together.

Also to truly take advantage of the endless C rotations you need to set aside 2 hours to play a single mission. It's long, instead of being challenging. If WF missions were basketball, you'd win by holding the ball more minutes than the other team, just standing their, doing nothing, instead of putting in the basket. We need mission where skill comes into play multiple times per mission, in shorter missions, that can be evaluated for how many times we did X thing that takes some skill instead of always being how many hours we can sit in one mission. I'd much rather get a bonus 1% chance to get the reward for the defense target taking no damage, rather than defending it 5 additional waves, etc.

All in all it's merely ok, but not great. Like defection, it's play it for the mods, and done. What I truly fear is that to keep it relevant DE will keep releasing new mods or items in the buyable section so you keep having to farm the new nitain prime resource.