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(PS4)LoisGordils

Garuda Feedback and Discussion

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I posted this in another thread but I figured I'd paste it here since this is the megathread. They probably don't want to get rid of her 4 if they've already spent a lot of time making the assets for it and what not, but if they decided they did, here are some suggestions:

The first one is a corpse explosion ability. It could be something like, detonate all corpses in X meter radius around her (or give it a longer casting range and have the radius around where you cast it like a Necromancer in diablo). They could do damage based on the health of the unit being blown up in a radius around the corpses. Surviving enemies could be coated in blood and given some sort of debuff. 

The explosions could leave blood all over the place that she could then absorb to heal as well. Possibly exclude the blood effect from mechanical units if possible.

Alternatively to a corpse explosion ability could be something similar to the D3 Necro's corpse lance ability. That ability also uses a corpse, but instead of a general AoE explosion, it turns the corpse into a single target high damage longer range lance. That would also fit her theme well. The ability could require a target and if there's a corpse within a decent range, the corpse blows up and a lance flies out to impale your target dealing high damage (maybe base damage + some % of the max health of the corpse). 

A third idea could be to sprout some kind of gory looking totem from corpses in range. The more corpses that feed it could make it larger and/or more elaborate. The totem could give a wide area buff that scales up with more corpses fed to the totem. It could be an affinity range buff and re-casting the ability in range of an existing totem feeds more corpses to the totem to build it up further. Feeding the totem could have some animation where the bodies explode and you see the parts/blood flying off to be absorbed by the totem. 

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i personally have no problems with her ult given we dont have its numbers and stuff yet, but i'd like if her ult was instead impaling some dudes and having those claws spin around as well. the current animation doesnt look half as gore-y as the other abilities. i mean, one of them impales a dude and sucks the blood out of it, other than shreds the target in two with a leap and use the blood as a shield and other one is, well, just blood everywhere. 

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Having rewatched the stream, I better understand what you're TRYING to do, DE...
But the minute she's in sorties or other high-end content, she's gonna fall apart. The shield makes little sense with the rest of her abilities, her ultimate is yet another "float and damage," and she needs to have low HP to reach her full potential.
Her 1? Good if it's an instant-kill to basic enemies, but instead of the shield, it should be her life-restore.
Her 2? As long as it affects allies, it's fine.
Her 3? Self-damage can be done just as easily with a weapon. Rage can grant energy to her when enemies damage her. There's no need for it.
Her 4? A ton of other frames do something similar. While it's not "bad," it could be better/different.
 
Honestly, I wish she had a way to grant allies ENERGY without KILLING something. No one in the game can do that, so it would make her very valuable, even without all the rest of her abilities. Especially in Eidolon hunts. If you want self-damage, her ultimate could drain her HP while granting energy to allies in range - again, as blood rain.
 
My personal suggestions then, are thus - easy to implement from a design perspective, useful for the frame's viability, and in keeping with her theme:
 
1: Keep that instant kill, have it restore her HP. It's single target, 25 energy, so I feel that's a decent balance, and obviously it scales.
2: Allow it to affect allies in the AOE, and this one's fine.
3: Replace with something to help her durability at higher levels. Perhaps use her current 4 animation briefly and flash blades in an AOE to trigger slash status and stagger enemies for a few seconds.
4: Replace with a simple animation, likely reused from somewhere, that triggers a blood-rain in a wide radius (affinity range?). The ability would toggle on, have a startup cost, and drain HP over time to give allies energy - not herself, though. The rain effect could just be a recolored one from the Plains - or it could just use your new library of particle effects and energy color.
With regard to all this, her passive should change to a built in Rage - an ability where she gains energy when taking HP damage.
 
Suddenly, her and Trinity can play off one another - the holy healer and the vicious blood-mage - to power each other and give each other and their allies energy. It keeps Garuda as the ruthless killer, keeps the blood and gore theme, and makes her conventionally viable at all levels of play.

Thoughts?

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I've been rereading Hyperion lately and Garuda reminds of the Shrike a bit. so ....

 

How about Garudas 4 creates a Tree of Pain. It's a tree of thorns, or spikes, that sprouts from the ground where you target it, the spikes reach out and impale enemies on the trees' branches hanging in the air. This creates an expanding pool of blood under the tree that heals allies.

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Make her 4th a version of Valk's 4, only that she can extend the blades on her arms and leap at them from a distance, in exchange for invincibility.

 

Or, like, a direct copy of Valk's 4, but with permanent health regen instead of invincibility. Even that would be more fun, and actually my personal favourite option.

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1 minute ago, o0Despair0o said:

Make her 4th a version of Valk's 4, only that she can extend the blades on her arms and leap at them from a distance, in exchange for invincibility.

 

Or, like, a direct copy of Valk's 4, but with permanent health regen instead of invincibility. Even that would be more fun, and actually my personal favourite option.

They've hammered quite hard that Garuda is not Valkyr. I don't see them copying anything from her.

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Abouth her 1  if its instan kill not worth, ( it´s like ash 3 rd ) while i love it .. in real mision  have no real utility when alot come. While shield i find usefull
Abouth 2  i think  yes it heal allies in the dev stream u can see how energy flow goes to companion also.

The 3  yes i think better if add some.. armor ? dont know abouth what can be usefull here..
The 4 will need more range  maybe, more dmg and any hp/energy leech? maybe few seconds invincible and empale with those swords will be great too.
 

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21 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

They've hammered quite hard that Garuda is not Valkyr. I don't see them copying anything from her.

Absoultely this^^. Garuda is far from Valkyr so i can't see DE doing changes that would make her Valkyr 2.0.

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I thought about making her more about religion of blood or something like that. Its all about bloody ceramonials and sacrifice the enemy at the altar (her 2) to gain health.

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tbh i dont like her 4 I wanted her to be like.. Entering melee mode and her claws get much much bigger and can slash the air like Excalibur BUT the damage is much increased at the cost of slashing speed and gain more health and moving speed... THAT WOULD BE AWESOME IF THEY CAN DO THAT [ and with her 1 she can get to them faster and protect her at the same time ] 

 

 

 

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So... Valkyr's 4, with the Augment, but worse?

This is probably going to get dumped into the Megathread anyway, but for the love of RNGesus, just wait the three or four weeks and play her before you start these.

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i have an idea for garuda's ultimate
i would like to see her holding in the air two orbs that absorb the health of the enemies drying them and when they're full charged explodes healing(or overshield) the allies  
maybe you can put an icon like nidus to see when the orbs are full filed.
I think that we need more dps/supports frames in the game
hope you like this idea!
let me know in the comments below your thoughts about this ultimate
thank you guys have a nice day!

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On 2018-10-19 at 8:54 PM, ShikiRen said:

As stated in the title, I'm really disappointed with the shown abilities, or at least most of them.

For one "the lower hp the better" concepts NEVER work out, and especially in a game like this where you'd get oneshot even if you were at full HP if you are not a specific set of frames in higher levels. The self heal is completely asynergistic with this goal as well, as using it makes you weaker, and you have to stand still to get oneshot by the next bombard coming your way. 

The frame has no way of survival. The shield was extremely sluggish, covers too little an area, and a bombard rocket will most likely still damage you through it. Charging the blood orb to deal damage is a death sentence, and we all know just how bad 99% of damage abilities are in this game, the damage becomes completely useless past lvl 70.

The self healing is useless since she is going to die in one hit anyways, and she even brings herself closer to death.

Then there is the ult... Good lord we just had revenant who had a BETTER version of this! And it was uninspired there too!.

So in summary : The frame has bad survivability, amost certainly bad damage, a terrible ult and terrible CC. What exactly does she DO? Even Ember is not as terribly asynergistic, at least she can CC somewhat.

 

And the worst part, there were such great fan concepts of a blood based frame, and every single one was miles better than this. Another great visual design wasted on a terrible gameplay concept.

we need to upvote this, people upvote this please 

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2 minutes ago, anynduil said:

i have an idea for garuda's ultimate
i would like to see her holding in the air two orbs that absorb the health of the enemies drying them and when they're full charged explodes healing(or overshield) the allies  
maybe you can put an icon like nidus to see when the orbs are full filed.
i hope you like this idea!
let me know in the comments below your thoughts about this ultimate
thank you guys have a nice day!

Why make another thread when there is one up already on the first page ...

Also don't use megathread when it's not a megathread, that's a dev only tag.

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have an idea for garuda's ultimate
i would like to see her holding in the air two orbs that absorb the health of the enemies drying them and when they're full charged explodes healing(or overshield) the allies  
maybe you can put an icon like nidus to see when the orbs are full filed.
I think that we need more dps/supports frames in the game like harrow.
hope you like this idea!
let me know in the comments below your thoughts about this ultimate

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Garuda currently looks confusing, it is more of an defensive solo warframe than an actual gore-ish, but elegant and refined murder.

Not to mention the bowling ball of blood attack, which just feels just so out of place with her backward claws and murder aspect.
Personally, i feel like DE should take the whole covered in blood more seriously and instead reward the SELECTIVE/ OFFENSIVE gameplay.

So, with that said, here are some of my takes on improving her while keeping the thematic:

 

1st skill:

On 2018-10-11 at 2:36 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

ONE: Cast upon an enemy to tear them apart with your claws. Doing so summons a shield in front of you to protect you, for a set duration. Additionally, you harvest their blood that can the charged by draining your energy and thrown at enemies to do damage.

 

Change the above skill to include an more suitable buff. From an awkward shield to an [blood skin] of sorts, something that covers the warframe and offers [damage reduction] instead.
Additionally, discarding it (if you plan to keep that bowling ball thing), could result in an [Impaling blood attack], that pulls everything in its direction to the caster, instead of blowing them away.
 

Combo multiplier functionary, much like Atlas [LANDSLIDE]. However damage also scales with the number of dead enemies.* (not sure)

>Above mentioned blood skin damage reduction, could work as an [immunity build up]. <
Enemies whom are weakened, only have a health bar (no shields or armor), would grant [Buffs] to both the immunity and damage.
Tearing enemies apart with your claws on un-alerted enemies would yield similarly unique buffs to Garuda.

(targeting the weak)
 

2nd skill:

On 2018-10-11 at 2:36 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

TWO: Cast upon an enemy to impale them, creating an AOE that drains their life force to heal you.

Just change it to [heal everyone within range], perhaps making it also a [small AOE], to synergy with above mentioned [impaling blood attack] and such.
I don't understand why it wasn't like this before, to be blunt.

 

3rd skill:

On 2018-10-11 at 2:36 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

THREE: Cast to lower your health, giving you energy based on the amount of health drained.

Personally i am a bit 50/50 on this. Specially when you are in the middle of being shot, which is about the case most of the time.
Maybe add a [small outwards explosion] (no damage) each time you do so? and it increasing your [blood skin immunity] a bit too? 
le synergy

 

4th skill:

On 2018-10-11 at 2:36 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

FOUR: Summon a flurry of blades around you, pulling in enemies and shredding them. You can move around while in the vortex.

Well...
Where do i start? I mean the idea per say, is good. But it ends up (no offense) looking like a budget version of dance macabre.
Where it should be what defines what and who Garuda is.

My proposition is to change it to an [active skill]. Instead of channeling the mother of blenders:
• Doesn't hinder movement, but perhaps changes it to walking pace.
• Can [use other abilities] while it is up AND all abilities activated while 4th is on have [increased range].
• Other abilities also [Transform while this is active], giving them new characteristics.
1st ability would as an example, have more impaling blood spikes and bring more enemies in. 
3rd one, instead of the small outwards knockdown, would cut everything around Garuda.


 

 

And... That's all i have for now.
Honestly i don't expect you folks to do exactly like this, but i sincerely hope she is fun. Perhaps with a bit of that new FX and sound work. ❤️

 

On 2018-10-11 at 2:36 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

PASSIVE: The lower her health, the more damage she does.

(also adding a bit of delay, after passive hits an damage multiplier, so that there might be some use after health regenerating)

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She looks interesting, for the most part. Her ult bugs me, though. Just another generic IWin button press. And I really dislike the floating animation. Yet I do like the idea behind her overall. Her first ability is nice. I'd prefer the shield to envelope her partially, but eh. 

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13 hours ago, MickThejaguar said:

So a completely different ability? 

So a completely different ability?

So a kind of similar ability but with a different effect? 

No there isn't. Just because her abilities have minor similarities to other doesn't just straight up make them recycled content. The abilities have similar looks but function almost entirely differently.

that's minor similiarities?

kk 😂

It's alot more like minor differences to fool the feeble-minded. You'll excuse me if i'm not blown away by the reptitiveness and lack of creativity in how her abilities look AND function.

If they didn't have the proper time to spend on her kit (which seems alot like what happened with the rehashed abilities) then they shouldn't have even considered releasing the frame.

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I'd like to see a ranged option for the impale ability. Perhaps it could have a charge mechanic that fires one of Garuda's claws and impales an enemy to a surface. This gives her some minor single target ranged CC as well.

I'm not a fan of her 4th ability. I'd like to see her do something with the spines on her. In the fan art she had a torso impaled on it. Why not do that to generate a shield. She just stacks corpses on her body to soak damage and perhaps slowly leach health. Something with those claws though but not the disassembly spinning thing. Its a cool idea, but it can't/won't compare to Revanents Danse Macabre in terms of usefulness.

Perhaps an Ash like 4th that marks targets and then she fires her claws out at them creating multiple heal zones, hyper-charging the blood ball in the process. If you really want to crank up the gore factor enemies should be afraid of the impaled so add a short range fear effect. Gives her some additional CC that matches her style.

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Agreed. I am not a fan of DE simply repeating Revenant's ult for Garuda's ult. If they want to make her a blade dancer her ulti should let her throw blades at enemies.Some people are worried that giving her a clawed exalted weapon would make Garuda into Valkyr 2.0 but I remember that Valkyr gains invulnerability while the ability is channeled and that's why I would bring valkyr

The other thing I noticed is that her blades seemed to get awfully close to the crosshairs when Rebecca was aiming down her sights when firing Garuda's primary weapon. I would like DE to consider folding or bringing her blades closer to her body when she is aiming so that we don't get into the situation we got into with where people disliked Frost's Harka helmet cause his horn accessories got in the way of firing.

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as i wrote in another thread too i really agree with her ult being boring and uncreative...the 1 button issue aside and i also cant see the synergetic purpose.

it doesnt need to be one singular, very strong ability. if the synergy with the rest is really strong it doesnt have to be a huge, direct influence on the battlefield.

i now see her as the real vampire frame so, im sorry for this anime reference but i saw some similarities with shalltear and how she collects blood passively ->click me for more info on that (link to overlord wiki) . that skill is called blood pool but in essence its such an orb garuda summons above her shield but more flexible in terms of usage overall and it ofc collects blood, not just damage blocked from a shield but it would be way more interesting to actually store blood/part of the damage enemies receive. i dont want garuda to be a "shalltear copy" by any means, i just saw that similarity and with the ult being so meh and the rest of her abilities so synergy heavy at least to me its a logic conclusion to make the blood orb part of her passive instead so that she can generally use it more as a universal part of her kit, not just her 1 especially since it stayed around even long after the shield expired. that would also open possibilities for her ult more so and make room for something way more interesting and creative. there are surely ways to do that right now but i know the plan for revenant was him to be a vampire frame, which he didnt turn out to be in the end but garuda is already really close so why not do that extra work and tune her to be really interesting and embrace the vampire/blood theme ?

i think her kit looks already really good, all it needs is some more fine tuning, maybe swapping the blood orb over to her passive and make a more interesting ult with more synergy and synergy effects rather than direct 1button2win. aside from that its small things: invinc frame during her jump on her 1, better defensive reaction of the kill so that she can survive at nearly no health reliably, a set time her passive damage boost stays on the current max value so that we can actually reliably make use of that dmg boost. it doesnt have to be insanely long, maybe 5 seconds and then it changes to a lower value depending on current health.

i posted an idea for another 4 in another thread already and i dont want to copy paste it, so heres another idea:

garuda throws her blades into enemies around her and keeps these stuck in them for a set duration. during that time garuda leeches their blood/life per second (fixed, small % missing health as finisher damage) and feeds the orb with it. reactivating it pulls the blades out of the targets, staggering them and dealing damage with a bonus depending on how much health they are missing and how much capacity the orb has stored with a forced slash procc. ofc it uses the orbs capacity up. enemies who directly die from this instead of the bleed proccs instantly feed some capacity into the orb.

i know how it goes with player ideas/suggestions, but hope dies last. in any case her 4 looks very disappointing to me too, more so than the other abilities since they actually look fine from what we saw. details unknown so its hard to really give a good feedback/opinion. id really like to see her fun and strong since shes really close to a vampire frame already, which i have hoped for for quite some time now.

 

 

 

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The ult looks like a mobile Vauban vacuum grenade mixed with Rev and Nyx. Needs a change so it isnt too similar to the last released frame. all the other abilities look fine, albiet maybe a tad TOO overpowered. I would reccomend they remove some things from her first ability tho. DE has to be careful that they dont fall into the same trap that Ubisoft did with Siege; The first operators did one thing really well and the game was great, now the new operators do many things but subpar and the game is losing its touch. While the intention behind Garuda seems great, she has borderline too much synergy ( her first ability is a high damage melee attack that spawns a shield and then charges up another AOE slash based explosive, am I the only one that feels this is a bit much?) and does too many things to the point where she might become pre-rework Oberon (practitioner of all, master of none).

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3 hours ago, Aleksundar said:

The ult looks like a mobile Vauban vacuum grenade mixed with Rev and Nyx. Needs a change so it isnt too similar to the last released frame. all the other abilities look fine, albiet maybe a tad TOO overpowered. I could see her first ability losing 1 or two of its functions without too much fuss.

How is it OP? We don't even know how it would scale. And why should her 1st ability lose functions, that's just gutting it for no reason

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5 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

How is it OP? We don't even know how it would scale. And why should her 1st ability lose functions, that's just gutting it for no reason

She was unmodded, and the first ability had THREE separate things that were wiping the floor with level 30+ enemies. The other abilities were fine, but I do feel a bit worried about the first one. Sorry, should have been more specific

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