FrostDragoon Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Kappa64 said: Just because you can name Logical Fallacies doesn't make you smart, it makes you look like you don't have an argument. No, it shows their argument is flawed and/or invalid because it's based on bad logic. It's also why I can easily disregard such "arguments." They aren't coherent to begin with, so there's nothing to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShogunGunshow Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Man and here I thought this was going to be a thread about some cosmetic items being locked behind achievements, which was something I could get behind. No it's just someone that wants more power creep. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterBurik Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 @FrostDragoon From what I have read, you're past the concept that cosmetic armor should play host to base stat bonuses, right? You'd just like something to provide that additional level of customization, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 20 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said: Same predictable nonsense. Smh. It's predictable because it's the only logical response. You term it as nonsense because you find those responses unacceptable. If the only logical response is also the one you find unacceptable, then the challenge doesn't actually lie with the response...It lies with your expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDragoon Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 44 minutes ago, MasterBurik said: @FrostDragoon From what I have read, you're past the concept that cosmetic armor should play host to base stat bonuses, right? You'd just like something to provide that additional level of customization, yes? Yep. I'd like armor to have some part to play in it, but ultimately it doesn't have to be. 24 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: It's predictable because it's the only logical response. You term it as nonsense because you find those responses unacceptable. If the only logical response is also the one you find unacceptable, then the challenge doesn't actually lie with the response...It lies with your expectations. No, it's predictable because it's the same boring stuff everyone else repeats as if automatically. It represents a lack of thought and an urge to simply respond with "something." The rest of your post is nonsense, btw, and it's nonsense because relies on a bad proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nykerios Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said: No, it's predictable because it's the same boring stuff everyone else repeats as if automatically. It represents a lack of thought and an urge to simply respond with "something." The rest of your post is nonsense, btw, and it's nonsense because relies on a bad proposition. It's repeated because DE has already stated their stance on it. They do not want to and will not tie cosmetics to stats. That's why they reworked how arcanes are equipped twice and we don't have other skins like the Brokk and Manticore skins. Trying to ask for its return won't bring anything but rehashes of previous examples and the same end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I don't have much to add other than simple disagreement over your proposition; I didn't like it when our cosmetic items had functional stats in the past because people felt forced to use items they didn't like the appearance of in order to gain a statistical advantage in game. I didn't even like it when I had to find a Syandana for every Warframe when they Arcane Enhancements were first added, and was much happier when they were just "special" mods you could add to your Warframe. I would like to point out that the existence or absence of pay to win has nothing to do with your initial argument, and I'm not sure why its' still a focus of this thing 8 pages in. Provided that your idea was obtainable in game without a platinum transaction it would not be an example of pay to win, but that hypothetical has no bearing on why your idea is good or bad and should not have ever been a focus of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox_Preliator Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Wow, you are so naive it's almost cute, but so abrasive it's closer to kinda pitiful. Dismissing all dissent doesn't excuse you from providing any support for your own argument or refuting the arguments of others, it just makes you look like a child. You keep saying things that boil down to "I already countered that" or "Your opinion doesn't count or matter" when neither of those are true. Frankly I kinda want to quote like 80% of your posts here and make some sort of pun involving the shared appearance of Pots and Kettles. As for the idea itself, it is very poorly-thought-out, given that Arcane Helmets are almost universally considered to be a mistake in that power should not be tied to appearance. If we decouple the stats from the appearance of the armor, then the entire basis of the idea falls apart because then it just turns into extra stats that don't have any sort of trade-off without getting cosmetic armor involved at all. Acting as though the sizable portion of Warframe's audience that enjoys the fashion aspect of the game doesn't matter just makes one look ignorant, insensitive, and more than a little spiteful. I guess that would succeed in persuading other spiteful, ignorant, and insensitive players to your side of the argument, but since Warframe isn't actually a democracy it's far more important to provide well-reasoned and logical arguments to the devs rather than rally a handful of comparatively unimportant players, so it's not a particularly good way to make one's case. Though, if you wanted to actually make a serious suggestion you would have posted in a section of the forum that is specifically labeled for such things as feedback, but you didn't so here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said: No, it's predictable because it's the same boring stuff everyone else repeats as if automatically. It represents a lack of thought and an urge to simply respond with "something." The rest of your post is nonsense, btw, and it's nonsense because relies on a bad proposition. Why are you saying "No" when you clearly just agreed with me? ...You knew to expect these responses. (Predictable) ...You want different responses but are stuck waiting to get responses you like.(Nonsense) Or do you need definitions for the words too? As to the rest, You can say, "It relies on a bad proposition", "Lack of thought", etc but I invite you to factually and specifically qualify how this is true. With all due respect, I highly doubt you will because I highly doubt you can. Specific uses cases here void your strongest arguments Saying, "it's not like that" points you back to how your idea differs from specific use cases. All players do not want to feel obligated to wear cosmetic armors. Putting stats on cosmetic armors will make players who don't want to wear them, but want the most from their characters, feel obligated to wear them to get the most out of their character. Can you readily explain how your idea will not obligate players to wear items they may not want to simply because the item offers stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDragoon Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 You guys sound like pull-string puppets at this point. Anything to derail the topic, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said: You guys sound like pull-string puppets at this point. Anything to derail the topic, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupisV0lk Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said: You guys sound like pull-string puppets at this point. Anything to derail the topic, huh? And here we see a rare spotted dingus in it's native habitat. Marvel as it resorts to calling everyone else strawmen and other fanciful words when no one agrees with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDragoon Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 Still waiting for someone with an original thought or who would like to get back on topic. The rest of you Jerries can go on with your circle jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said: Still waiting for someone with an original thought or who would like to get back on topic. The rest of you Jerries can go on with your circle jerk. What is left you want to talk about? The idea of tying some stats to cosmetics? That one already earn a solid no from the majority of the community, and DE themselves already made effort to NOT do it. You're free to pester DE about it, just don't be surprised when they don't listen. Other than that, all that's left is you asking for yet another upgrade system, separate from Mods and Arcanes. How about you actually say that and not even mention Cosmetics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)watt4hem Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I'd honestly rather they put those bonus armors you suggested as arcanes. Reasons being : 1. Arcanes can already be leveled up, making the add up part you wanted (5% with one, 20% with x many) 2. They aren't visible physically 3. Armors gets to stay as is I meant, implementing it on armors literally, is just begging for cosmetic metas. Only the highest armor combination would get used, and if you don't then it'll be seen and feel like a gimp as time goes on (if you see it now it feels like the power is optional, but later on it'll be the norm and it'll feel the other way). and as much as a "meme" fashion frame is, it's a legit thing through and through. Most people bling themselves up as their end game, hell, deluxes were my goal for sometime. Also it's a fact that cosmetics is one of the things de gets money from aside from PA, let that be since they gotta pay the bills somehow. Keep our cosmetics, cosmetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 You can always make a feedback post on your wants from the cosmetic system. But calling people out for circle jerking just because we don't like your idea. Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikakor Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said: Still waiting for someone with an original thought or who would like to get back on topic. The rest of you Jerries can go on with your circle jerk. Still waiting for your thread to be locked for making everyone waste time on the blattant ignorance you're showing. Guess what? DE themselves don't want to go that way. Which is making your entire thread... Say it with me... POINTLESS! useless! That doesn't have any purpose other than whining about something litterally no one except you want back. Nobody wants it back. Your entire thread is pointless because the devs don't want it. As much as you can try to yell to get it or spread your... Whatever I could call it without getting a warning, it's useless. No one cares about it, no one wants it. It's time to accept it and move on. Because the develops themselves don't want it back. ( I repeat just to be sure you understand how your thread is pointless. ) Edited October 31, 2018 by mikakor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupisV0lk Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said: Still waiting for someone with an original thought or who would like to get back on topic. The rest of you Jerries can go on with your circle jerk. By that you mean someone to kiss your backside. Because that's what you clearly wanted. Someone to gush about how great your idea is, but what you got was everyone pointing out that your idea has been done before and failed along with the hows and why. Edited October 31, 2018 by LupisV0lk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 So this is what happens when I leave the forums alone for a few hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AiLuoLi- Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) So.....you want extra stat not in the form of mods or arcane, but as "armor" instead? The question is why? Why not suggest an entirely different mechanic like how arcane differs from mod? Why do you insist on COSMETICS giving you stat boost? That's what I don't get. I don't want to use an "armor" set that I hate just because it has good stat. "But the stat is small and insignificant! You don't have to use them if you don't want to" If the stat is so small and insignificant, then why would DE add them at all? Since there's no differences with or without the stats. So why go through the trouble to add something that's basically USELESS? "But then DE can implement a system where you can change the look of your "armor"!" So why go through all the trouble for that when instead they can add a system like "talent" for example, where you can spend some "talent points" on stats? Why insist on cosmetics? "But you can farm this new "armor" unlike arcane helmets!" So are mods/arcanes except they don't change the look of my frames. Edited October 31, 2018 by -AiLuoLi- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrielColtan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, FrostDragoon said: People could easily have said that about Rivens, Operators, Exilus, etc. "It wasn't there from the start, so it's not designed for it." That's nonsense. It all boils down to implementation. Also, most of the comments arguing against me now are people who didn't read the thread, but only the OP (and badly), so the discussion of implementation keeps getting interrupted by each person with the same pre-programmed, oft repeated response thinking they're the first to tell me something I was already aware of and don't find convincing to begin with. I'm not accusing you of this, but where do you think the game would be if the devs were too scared to try anything because, "it wasn't there in the beginning?" I think it's funny that people keep bringing up arcanes too. It's like the ultimate straw man. You take an example of something badly implemented that was later removed, and people think that something similar can never work. This happened with Diablo 3 and its Auction House, so now people think ARPGs can't have AHs, and some even go so far as to think AHs themselves are inherently bad. They're not. It all boils down to implementation. Most everything in life and society does, and games are no exception. I completely understand the hesitance and reservations people have about it, but most are unwilling to even have the conversation because they bought into this false notion. I can easily see it working out well if people would get out of panic mode long enough to actually think about what could be done differently to allow it to instead of repeatedly baying like sheep with the same boring rhetoric. They said it about cosmetics, which the things you mentioned, aren't, latter of which have been farmable from the beginning or part of some progression in the game. You can't even buy Operators nor rivens in the shop, people choose to trade for platinum in regard to rivens, though they can honestly trade them for anything, like other rivens. How long before you try to saddle other cosmetics with this proposed stat feature btw? Why stop at armor, amirite? That Palatine skin looks like it should make my Rhino even stronger than he is without it. And why stop at skins? This industrial green should make me do more corrosive damage..... Lets invalidate cosmetic items and just make them all purchasables that buff your stats. 22 minutes ago, -AiLuoLi- said: "But then DE can implement a system where you can change the look of your "armor"!" So why go through all the trouble for that... Exactly, its stupid. Edited October 31, 2018 by UrielColtan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seprent Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 57 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: So this is what happens when I leave the forums alone for a few hours... just plug your brain into the warframe forums become skynet but a monkey so monkey net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisdschungel Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Soo, since theres no Way around the cosmetic > function Way of thinking of the Community, we d Need a System were you use One piece of Gear, but equip Another as skin for it, like other games (First in my mind would be Trove, but there others) have. >this would mean any armor set can Wear any stat Bonus >that basically removes the Connection between Armor and stat bonus >which makes it a new, weak Version of arcanes And thats something this game doesnt really need, especially when most Armor is bought with plat Edited October 31, 2018 by Eisdschungel While i was typing AilouLi had the same idea in their post. So this is kinda redundant now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I would really want more Pay 2 Win options in WF, just so I can convince myself to quit it sooner, focus on getting a high paying job and then come back to buy up everything to let me win. Ya know, when you can buy game superiority with money to transcend the normal limit of the average gamer... As much as I hate to mention it, I have to focus on real life over a game, so pay 2 win would be nice when you have money instead of time. (Sarcastic or not, up to you to guess.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrielColtan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Eisdschungel said: Soo, since theres no Way around the cosmetic > function Way of thinking of the Community, we d Need a System were you use One piece of Gear, but equip Another as skin for it, like other games (First in my mind would be Trove, but there others) have. >this would mean any armor set can Wear any stat Bonus >that basically removes the Connection between Armor and stat bonus >which makes it a new, weak Version of arcanes And thats something this game doesnt really need, especially when most Armor is bought with plat For good reason. Now tell me, after what you laid out, what is the point of attaching that stuff to a cosmetic at this point? You might as well just create another slot. "Hey guys, I put a stat in your cosmetic so you can cover it up with a cosmetic" </Xzibit>. How pointless. This concept was on helmets and syandanas, and then removed, because this was not liked and it was dumb, just make it another slot, which they did. The comments about Dendra armor looking like it should give more shield and the like, also lose all substance when you suggest something redundant like that, as if the original idea wasn't worth bringing up, which it wasn't. Edited October 31, 2018 by UrielColtan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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